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Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.02.18 11:41:00 - [1021]
 

Originally by: Wontons ftw

If i do make a mistake, i don't think it will turn the person off Ice mining, it will make the person equip a better tank/take more notice next time they ice mine.

I have been blown up in my hulk in highsec before do you think that stopped me mining?



If enough people do enough mistakes the targets would leave mining and people have different sopportation levels.

Originally by: Wontons ftw

The name...its called irony...guess you don't have a sense of humour.



You think it is humor, people targeting you will think macro. And saing to a macrohunter that he is using a macro name is as much irony as the macrohunter using a macro name.

Originally by: Wontons ftw

To deal with your list:
1. I don't have a real need for isk...well as much as any other billionaire.
2. Correct.
3. Correct, they are competition either way. If they go afk and i am able to gank them, they will just dock before going afk next time. And it helps to turn up the price of Ice in the local area making my isk per hour better.

But a major motivation you forgot to mention its...
It's Fun.




That I could even accept, but then call yourself pirate, not macrohunter.

Pirating for profit is ok, flying the "righteous avenger" banner while pirating is hypocrisy.

I already see too much hypocrisy in RL.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.02.18 11:48:00 - [1022]
 

Originally by: Wontons ftw
Originally by: ShaggieMae
]
And why should I pay for your mistakes? You dont fit tank to a Mack, you fit mining mods.



You have 4 med slots on a mack for a reason.....Take off the survey scanner equip a T2 small shield booster, a cap recharger and some invuln fields then my ganker squad wont be able to touch you.



You use a mack? Try really fitting it with some ice mining upgrade and any other thing. Civilian booster and maybe small shield extender if you have high skills, not even those if your skills are mediocre.

Wontons ftw
Posted - 2008.02.18 12:10:00 - [1023]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul

You use a mack? Try really fitting it with some ice mining upgrade and any other thing. Civilian booster and maybe small shield extender if you have high skills, not even those if your skills are mediocre.



Who said you must have Ice mining upgrades on? You choose to have them on, no one forces you.

Also i never thought i acted like a 'righteous avenger' was just stating the facts.

ShaggieMae
Posted - 2008.02.18 14:32:00 - [1024]
 

I got t2 shields on my mack, because certain idiots doesnt know the difference between a miner and macro, more than likely they dont care, but find it amusing to bring their grief-play to miners.

In my experience, those harrasing miners are too chicken **** to PvP for real, so they decide to pick on miners.

Wil Danis
Posted - 2008.02.18 20:54:00 - [1025]
 

Iíve read just about the whole thread and my common sense is screaming at me this:

1) Macroing and farming, with the attendant, high sec belt depletion and in-game economic disruption, DO SERIOUSLY compromise the immersion factor of the game. My will to mine was instantly deflated once I found out the market was screwed with the marcoing and farming activities.

There is hope though!! I feel that newly implemented creative game play mechanics that utilize Concordís political power to regulate laws and assign pilot sec status, along with a few other parallel game design strategies, can decrease said problems while providing the legitimate pilots of eve more fun and targets to shoot.
The idea here is simple: Use human endurance and capacity to remain coherent and effective piloting and operating a mining operation as the primary consideration for mining infractions within high sec.

Create a system to flag pilots who mine more hours than are realistically possible as defined by basic human physiology. And consider the total hours of mining operation per day/week/month within high sec to be something that is open to regulation by Concord laws and therefore is accessible to pilot initiated pvp action as sanctioned by concord. Bounty hunters and Merc Corps rejoice!

There is the potential to create a plausible, in game story line, that allows for the player base to logically interact with the macroers and farmers to flag them as such and attack and or protect them with pvp actions.

The logical criteria for the flaging of marcoers and farmers may simply be found by including the realties of human endurance while operating a ship into the mechanics of high sec mining operation game play within Eve. Simply put, a characterís ability to do anything would BE SIGNIFICANTLY degraded with accumulated fatigue. Thus over a 24 hour period, all related ship functions would be degraded and exponentially degraded with the accumulation of fatigue over a 24, 48, and weekly, monthly duration. Even Bones would order Captain Kirk to his quarters for rest if he had too!!

Thus logically, a pilot in Eve who is found to actually be working/flying excessively in this extreme manner can be assumed to ACTIVELY USING STIMULANT DRUGS AND OR ENDURANCE IMPLANTS OF SOME KIND or to be a cyborg robot mining pilot!

And so the citizens of Eve and the Empire governments would have no trouble in assuming the use of endurance enhancement technologies by pilots who operate their ships for hours and days on end without realistic rest and down time periods. Our macro pilots and farmers are now exposed.

These endurance stims, or implant hardware of course are CLASSIFIED AS ILLEGAL AND NOT allowed in NPC corps or USE BY ANY PILOT OPERATING A MINING SHIP anywhere within .5 to 1 high sec space. The obvious reason for this is due to political and economic pressure, to allow for the MAJORITY of working class empire miners to remain gainfully employed and have access to stable and truly competitive mineral markets within empire space.

Here we have both the political reason and accessible criteria for flagging miners assumed to be macroing and farming within High sec space. Simplest thing to track is the duration someone is logged on and mining.

Now the next thing is to make the flagging both a non griefing opportunity and something that doesnít require the Devs and moderators a lot of grief, complexity, money lost and time spent.

Next post

Tnks


Wil Danis
Posted - 2008.02.18 20:56:00 - [1026]
 

Edited by: Wil Danis on 18/02/2008 21:11:22
part 2 Of Illegal enhancement post

For high sec mining operations, Concord would have to of course define a pilotís allowable mining operation time duration which would be based on realistic non stimulated human work day, of say 6 to 8 hours, with hours above this requiring an active endurance mining permit sanctioned by concord. Thus each hour above 8 hours daily would require a miner to identify and purchase extended work day permits which are very expensive and flag the character to bounty hunters and concord within high sec space. Max work day hour would have to be considered but and capped to no more than 12 hrs a day and or some such appropriate formula.

Concord must decree the death penalty on endurance enhancement use within empire mining operations and contract out the retaliation of said convicted pilots and their ships to the Bounty hunter community. Non invasive evidence gathering tools will provide conclusive proof of infractions and thus avoid griefing of the honest mining community. Break the rules mining 23/7 and you and your ships and your corp are open for unending pvp action while in empire. Simple as that.

Provide the bounty hunting profession new scanning tools to both scan for active endurance stim/implant use and the accumulated historical mining duration intensity of both pilots and their related ships and equipment. (note these enhancement techs are assumed to be in use and are not a new active game play item). This would allow pilots to be flagged and reported to concord within high sec. The intel gathering would be passive and could be done by cloaked close range scanning and the use of NPC agents within the required stations to gather the highest degree of conclusive proof of illegal use of endurance enhancements by a suspect mining pilot. Thus a bounty hunter would investigate both out in space and within the stations to make his case.

Further each mining barge would be given an encrypted operation timer and could be ready by any sanction concord bounty hunter at any time. As well all and any empire factories could be monitored for mining equipment manufacturing to monitor mining ship replacement strategies, which again could provide the bounty hunter more damning evidence to present to concord of mining duration infractions.

Ultimately ship equipment will be a huge indicator of intensive mining activities, due to the UNALTERABLE molecular changes that a ships various components undergo with each passing hour of exposure to various minerals and associated during mining activities. Thus a skilled bounty hunter working for concord could very accurately flag an intensively worked mining operation, fleet and or ships and or parts of a ship with his scanner, of course over time and circumstance all lead back to potential incriminating a pilot and compromising his sec status.

Allow the bounty hunters to purchase the rights to both investigate and facilitate the means for destruction of outlawed miner pilots whose sec status has been degraded. Thus bounty hunters could be sanctioned to effect known criminal miner ship destruction personally, from within their associated corporations and or out source to other merc corps or bounty hunters.

Empire sec status and the price for war Decing an empire corp that has pilot(s) with convicted endurance implant need to be looked into and fine tuned to effect maximum player control enforcement and game play value. Such that the bounty hunters are provided with the burden of enforcement and associated financial rewards, ie lots of sanctioned criminal targets with cheaply initiated, unlimited war decs to corps who harbor miners who are flagged enhancement criminals.

Continued next post

tnks

Wil Danis
Posted - 2008.02.18 20:57:00 - [1027]
 

Edited by: Wil Danis on 18/02/2008 21:27:00
Edited by: Wil Danis on 18/02/2008 21:24:15
Edited by: Wil Danis on 18/02/2008 21:08:48
Next level of investigation is the Illicit financial transactions of flagged miners. Concord could simply give a huge negative sec status hit to anyone who accepts any significant exchange of funds from a know miner criminal. Fair warning could be given to these pilots before money exchange, with a permanent sec status hit if a player decides to do business with a criminal in high sec. Once flagged as a criminal that has received illegal funds from high sec illegal miners a token open bounty would be initiated with a specific allowance for anyone to pvp this character in High sec.

2) Over haul the whole mining game mechanics:

a) Attempt to increase the quality of the game play experience for miners and haulers. This thread and the mining related threads, have many ideas on how to accomplish this, but the idea here is to make mining much more interactive, requiring consistent higher quality strategic decision making interactivity for the miner, hauler, and rat handling combat pilot.

b) Allow casual legitimate players to compete directly with the farmers by providing them mining tools that can increase the production of low grade ore, (veldspar) such that casual empire miners can, with training, better technology, and multipilot coordination, to substantially increase high sec veldspar ore production within a 2 to 6 hour gaming period. The effect being that very significant ore volumes being generated by the hyper time intensive mining sweat shop operations in high sec can be realistically and slowly replaced by increasing number of legitimate high sec casual miners who are more efficient, have access to healthy veldspare ore belts, and who are rewarded by better ore prices and more meaningful game play.

- provide honest miners new ships and mining and hauling bots to increase veldspar yield but which require active complex game play mechanics that are interesting to interact with. Make veldspar easier to mine in large volumes, only when using more complex hands on mining techniques. Still allow current semi akf mining techniques but decrease the efficiency of this dramatically.


- Provide empire miners with larger roids that contain ALL of various high grade minerals but are harder to extract and require intensive hands on mining techniques. This is due to the way the various ores are sealed within the large roids in layers and deeper unstable veins. This will inject interesting game play back into the profession. Force miners to use active scanning techniques and non easily pattern matched identification of high grade ore veins within large roids during location and extraction phases of the operation.


- Provide accessible roid complexes that are relatively non skill intensive, moderately easy to find for new empire miners. Make these fun to hunt down and moderately profitable with a few mother loads to be found to keep the gold fever mentality active within the mining community. As well salt a few mother load single roid spawns within the regular empire belts as well, to spice things up!! Stories told by experienced miners of lucrative belts and fat roids are the impetus for noobs to train the weeks required to track down a seek their fortunes in cold hard space!!


Now I realize that is a lot to read and absorb but I think there are so good ideas here that are realistic and do not compromise game play but in fact add another layer of interactivity to Eve. Marcoer and farmers will either have to open and run 3 times as many accounts and greatly increase the size of their mining fleet to keep mining intensity hidden, while mining in empire or risk operating in low sec where they will be targeted relentlessly. Either way they will be griefed big time.
I am new to the game as so donít have the ability to trouble shoot these ideas as they need to be.

Open to feedback big time!

Onward

Danis

Aakaa
New Eclipse
Not Found.
Posted - 2008.03.09 07:23:00 - [1028]
 

Solution to macrominers...

We found a macro miner clearing away belts of precious ores in our base system. We decided to take care of em. All it took was 3 to 6 days of training some suicide gank squad alts, some lose funding, and we took the bugger out with the swift slash. This was in high sec ofcourse, and we did get concorded. But it was glorious. Twisted Evil
Macros aren't a problem as long as they mine resources like ice, or something that is not contested for acquisition.

Silent Killa
Xeno Tech Corp
Self Destruct.
Posted - 2008.03.09 08:10:00 - [1029]
 

Originally by: Aakaa
Solution to macrominers...

We found a macro miner clearing away belts of precious ores in our base system. We decided to take care of em. All it took was 3 to 6 days of training some suicide gank squad alts, some lose funding, and we took the bugger out with the swift slash. This was in high sec ofcourse, and we did get concorded. But it was glorious. Twisted Evil
Macros aren't a problem as long as they mine resources like ice, or something that is not contested for acquisition.


Good jobYARRRR!!

Cutter Isaacson
Minmatar
Spycotics
Posted - 2008.03.09 11:41:00 - [1030]
 

I havent read through the entire thread, im tired, so forgive me if this question has already been asked and answered.

It was my understanding that the selling of online game property is a breach of copyright law or something. That isk, ahips etc from MMO's are the intellectual property of the companies that create them and therefore selling them online is illegal. Can't CCP and other companies of that ilk get these selling websites shutdown?

Surely if the Macroer's have no sales outlet for their product, then the problem would be solved? Feel free to tell me what the flaws are in this idea as there will doubtless be plenty.

P.S just to remind you, im tired so I may just be talking 5hi7....

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.03.09 11:52:00 - [1031]
 

Originally by: Cutter Isaacson
I havent read through the entire thread, im tired, so forgive me if this question has already been asked and answered.

It was my understanding that the selling of online game property is a breach of copyright law or something. That isk, ahips etc from MMO's are the intellectual property of the companies that create them and therefore selling them online is illegal. Can't CCP and other companies of that ilk get these selling websites shutdown?

Surely if the Macroer's have no sales outlet for their product, then the problem would be solved? Feel free to tell me what the flaws are in this idea as there will doubtless be plenty.

P.S just to remind you, im tired so I may just be talking 5hi7....


To make an example applying the USA copyright laws in China or even in Italy is not easy and lawyers cost.

So while possible, the cost and time required generally make it not worthwhile.

Varopriest
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.03.31 04:50:00 - [1032]
 

Here's a silly thought from the cheap seats. How about including a random code in the MOTD and require all mining lasers to have that code entered once a day before activation. I realize that this would be an inconvienence on honest miners, but it should really put a crimp in the macro miners. Or maybe not ugh

Julia Newmatar
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2008.03.31 08:03:00 - [1033]
 

Originally by: Varopriest
Here's a silly thought from the cheap seats. How about including a random code in the MOTD and require all mining lasers to have that code entered once a day before activation. I realize that this would be an inconvienence on honest miners, but it should really put a crimp in the macro miners. Or maybe not ugh


Although this is not a bad idea, the result will probably be a huge amount of petitions with the text "What is todays code", resulting in the already overloaded petition system being even more strained.

And most macro's seem to have OCR now, so they are actually able to red the screen, so the odds are they would be able to read the code and enter it.

Red Dutchess
Posted - 2008.03.31 12:44:00 - [1034]
 

Is this *still* going on? It's been running for years now, and people still keep going at it like a bull in a china shop.

Personally I think the whole situation has been blown totally out of proportion by the minority who want to keep others down, so they can fly around e-peening and omgwtfbbqpwning. Allow me to elaborate;

These are the same people who moan about empire space. The same people that hurl the term "carebear" around, the people that say "shut up noob", the people who aren't constructive or helpful to the community and just want to lord it up.

You know the ones... You've seen them. The scary "outlaws" with a -1.4 sec status that hang around in empire smacking in local, can baiting and waving e-peen around like EVE is going out of fashion. The same ones that dock up and run away, the same ones that vanish once a war dec is issued.

It doesn't stop there ofc, we also have the Goons suiciding barges in high sec because it's in "safe" empire space, because it's not done "their" way or to their liking. Everyone has a career path to choose - just like in RL. You can choose danger and go to 0.0 (RL = join the army) or you can stay in 1.0 (RL = office work) so there is no right and wrong.

Anyway, I sidetrack...

As I said, I don't believe this is as big a problem as people bleet on about. It's a bandwagon load of monkies and more keep jumping on it through insecurity and fear about their own "position" and status.

Lets just suppose for a moment that a new player buys 1 billion isk. Fine, they have a big fat wallet. Now what are they going to do with it? The answer is virtually nothing because they don't have the skills to buy and use anything decent - unless they want to buy the entire empire stock of Civilian Shield Boosters!?!?

The point is that farming occurs in virtually any MMO. Certainly EVE does not suffer as much as WoW or others. The reason? The time-based skill system!

Genius!

You can have all the money in the world, all the ships in the world but you can't use them because skills are time-based. As soon as you can fly a battleship, doesn't mean you can use/fit it properly.

The time based skill system keeps things in check, it forces people to adhere to the rules no matter how they obtain their money.

Lets now say, someone bought 1 billion isk and can now fly a battleship. They will simply fit it poorly, think they are god like, head to low sec and get omgwtfbbqpwned in about 3 minutes. Rinse and repeat until isk is gone.

If people are stupid and lazy enough to throw RL money down the drain on ships, then fine, let them I say. They aren't really going to be much of a problem and will most likely get bored after losing a few ships. They will soon stop throwing RL money at the game when it starts to cost them.

Quite frankly, without mining/missions/trade etc there is little point to the game - aside from PVP ofc. But people who buy isk are going to suck because they have no experience whatsoever. I would think there is a pretty high "turn over" of these people.

When the big fat isk wallet is empty then what? They either leave, or buy more. However there is only a certain amount people will spend on a computer game.

Without the means to generate their own isk, these people come and go like a passing ship in the night.

I know this doesn't stop the farmers, but it does show that the end buyers gain no long term benefit from it.

If you really do have an issue with the farmers, head to low sec and have a shooting fest - I can recommend it btw. Get some locals friendly, join a few farmer hunting channels.

Again, this doesn't solve the problem but it will sure make you feel better. Just remember;

1. It's not as bad as it first appears
2. You can always shoot the farmers
3. ISK buying people have very limited life spans

Just my random thoughts on the subject

Red Dutchess
Posted - 2008.03.31 13:08:00 - [1035]
 

In addition to my above post....

As people have correctly said CCP are doing something about it, and some of the macros/farmers are mysteriously vanishing. Picture the scene:

*knock at the door*
Macro: Who is it?
Dev: CCP, you've won our prize of the month
Macro: Oooh goody
*door opens, GM's pile in*

Also, again as people have said transactions for billions of isk with nothing in return are probably "flagged" as suspicious and looked into.

It's pretty obvious to see when it's happening. I think it's being dealt with, but it's going to be a constant and ongoing thing.

Shakuul
Caldari
RuffRyders
Axiom Empire
Posted - 2008.03.31 14:22:00 - [1036]
 

Originally by: Wil Danis
Iíve read just about the whole thread and my common sense is screaming at me this:
1) Macroing and farming, with the attendant, high sec belt depletion and in-game economic disruption, DO SERIOUSLY compromise the immersion factor of the game. My will to mine was instantly deflated once I found out the market was screwed with the marcoing and farming activities.


I don't think this is entirely true. For the most part, farmers won't interfere with a corps ability to mine for itself. Maybe they strip out a few systems, but there are plenty of high sec systems with ore to go around. At worst they create a minor inconvenience if you have to make a couple extra jumps to get to a belt with ore.

Additionally, they reduce mineral prices. This means it will be that much cheaper for people to pvp, run missions, manufacture, etc. Additionally, it encourages non-farming miners to move out to 0.0 (where ore value will be much higher now because of cheap low ends). For those of you that believe all of the carebears need to get out to 0.0, this is also a good thing.

Shakuul
Caldari
RuffRyders
Axiom Empire
Posted - 2008.04.07 00:31:00 - [1037]
 

Is there a macro miner intel channel? its probably been posted somewhere but the search is terrible and eve-search is mediocre.

Bosun Pete
Spacebattles.com
Posted - 2008.04.07 00:52:00 - [1038]
 

Channel name of "macrointel", I think.

Varopriest
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.04.07 23:06:00 - [1039]
 

Originally by: Red Dutchess

Again, this doesn't solve the problem but it will sure make you feel better. Just remember;

1. It's not as bad as it first appears
2. You can always shoot the farmers
3. ISK buying people have very limited life spans

Just my random thoughts on the subject


While I agree with some of your arguments, I think that Macro's cause problems that do effect game play for everyone. It's a pain, and I wish more could be done about it.

My last thought on the subject:

What if CCP allowed players to challenge any mining barge in a roid belt. Give the challenged player 15 mins to respond, but if they didn't, flag them as if they had stolen from the challenging player. Allow the player 15 mins to eliminate the barge. Limit the challenges to 1 per hour per ship, (if a barge is challenged it cannot be challenged again for 1 hour), and dump all the challenge information into a database file. This would short term fix the problem by allowing players to eliminate some macro miners until the software caught up. By that time, even if the macro auto responded to the challenge, if the data is dumped to a database, CCP would have all the information it would need to identify the macros.

For example, you fly around a roid belt ratting, you find three barges with almost identical names. You then issue the challenge on the barges, and Concord issues a message to the barges expecting a reply. Even if the macro is set to auto-reply, CCP would have in its possesion the fact that those three ships were challenged 23 times a day for 7 days. (I don't care how much you power play, can't be done) It would also have the response time that it took for each challenge to be acknowledge. If all the challenges were ack'd within milliseconds of each other, it should set a pretty big flag for the GM's. Dump the database once a week, look at the individuals with the most challenges, and you will probably find macros.

Think about the other aspects this would allow. I take a barge into a field, and have several buddies in cloaked ships just hanging around. Wait for a challenge, ignore the challenge, sit back and watch the fireworks when I'm fired at. Could lead to some interesting battles in high sec. Twisted Evil

Like I said, just a thought from the cheap seats.

Aphoticus
Posted - 2008.04.22 18:01:00 - [1040]
 

I am new here, and I have tried to follow the thread as best I can, but have only heard hints on what I envision as a in-game solution.

Mention has been made of hunting parties, but in hi-sec there is that issue of security level going down.

Why not fund a group of Alts for this purpose. Like Billy the Kid in Young Guns.

You have some high-sec or corps fund a group of outlaws to do the dirty work. That is what they are for, to have low security and take out the farmers.

Identifing the farmers is another issue, but at least we could do something about it in game.

Is this not doable for some reason I am clueless about?


Qubit Infinity
Posted - 2008.04.23 06:25:00 - [1041]
 

A NEW WAY OF MINING

So far as I can tell the most common method of generationg the ISK to sell for real money is macro mining.

CCP instead of being reactive and trying to catch people doing real money trading why not be proactive?

Many of the rmt are criminals and CCP is always going to be one step behind in stopping them.

My idea would be to fix mining. What I mean is: mining is so spectacularly boring and mechanically repetitive that
it is an ideal target for macros.

If mining was made into the game that it should be, requiring real time input from the player much like missions do, it would be much more difficult to macro mine and vastly less profitable. It would also mean that more players would be drawn to mining as an exciting career.

I beleive that macro mining is so entrenched in the eve economy, that wiping it out entirely would present serious problems for the eve economy.

However an new way of mining could be statistical in nature, so that unintelligent macros get a lower yield than, skilled players. This skewing could be introduced slowly, so that the economy could adapt of a period of time.

In short make mining fun and dificult to macro, and most of the rmt would go away in time.

Zurrar
Posted - 2008.04.23 07:00:00 - [1042]
 

you know making mining interactive isnt a bad idea. The way a mining beam works is it melts everything and sends it up beam to the miner. so same idea, just different than click and push a button. have the asteroid, normal looking, but with the ore sticking out of the rock. add a mouse point tracking system for laser targeting, and when they activate the laser it follows the mouse pointer. cut the time down a bit on how long it takes to get the mins, and remove the targeting of asteroids. im sure after some development a macro can be used, but since its simply not 'target, f1 f2 f3, warp to, dock, undock, warp to, repeat' its finding the ores on the rock, and using the laser like a cutting tool.

Qubit Infinity
Posted - 2008.04.23 07:25:00 - [1043]
 

Originally by: Zurrar
you know making mining interactive isnt a bad idea...


Yes Zurrar, thats exaclty the kind of thing I was thinking of.

Mudrat
Posted - 2008.04.23 08:59:00 - [1044]
 

the worst thing anyone can do is to shoot the macro'ers. report them. it's harder on gm's to catch them in the act if all they are in are pods

Zurrar
Posted - 2008.04.23 09:00:00 - [1045]
 

if eve is for bob then macro is for gs?

Stakhanov
Metafarmers
MeatSausage EXPRESS
Posted - 2008.04.23 09:53:00 - [1046]
 

Originally by: Mudrat
the worst thing anyone can do is to shoot the macro'ers. report them. it's harder on gm's to catch them in the act if all they are in are pods


Of course. Why should we disrupt their money flow when it can potentially delay the banning of their expendable accounts for a few minutes ?

mingeta dong
Loyal Order Of Bacchus
Posted - 2008.04.23 10:59:00 - [1047]
 

Originally by: Stakhanov
Originally by: Mudrat
the worst thing anyone can do is to shoot the macro'ers. report them. it's harder on gm's to catch them in the act if all they are in are pods


Of course. Why should we disrupt their money flow when it can potentially delay the banning of their expendable accounts for a few minutes ?


This. All the time there is a free trial, banning accounts will do squat imo. CCP have to weigh up (I'm sure they have) the risk v reward that offering this to the public has.

I only read the first few posts in this monster thread and to be honest running to the forums isn't the answer as CCP are all to aware of the issue, it has a financial effect on their company. There is no greater incentive for any company to take action than a dent in their profits.

Players don't like to hear about such things as in their opinion the game should come first, realistically though any venture of this type has to be a financial success.

I for one wouldnít like to see any major changes to game mechanics in an attempt to get around the issue. CCP seem to be doing the right thing in attempting to educate players that buying isk for ££ ($$ or whatever) is bad mmkay, while at the same time offering an alternative via GTC sales. This isnít as contradictory as it seems to some, many players (myself included) cannot invest the time to keep up with the in-game cost of their PvP habit. Offering a service like the GTC for isk trade keeps many people (I would suspect, older, full time employed) interested as they can still compete with their peers. The way our characters gain SP with the skill training system compliments this, making the game very attractive for those of us who have a life away from EVE.

Players want to take action? Thatís fine; everyone can do this in-game. In the low sec systems I normally travel in there are swarms of haulers running courier missions, I simply park a ship outside of whichever station their goods are spawned at and shoot them when they undock. I shoot a couple and the rest stay docked all the time Iím sitting there. In reality Iím watching TV and they are losing a very small amount of their profit with the characters I am camping but it is disruption never less. They donít fight back; I donít really have to concentrate. I win a very small battle in a much larger struggle.

There are corps dedicated to this end, create an alt, and join in. It doesnít take much to effect a farmerís profit. If the RL isk isnít coming in it makes selling isk a less profitable enterprise resulting in fewer people being involved in it.

I must be drunk to have spent all that time typing what everyone already knows, right?

JeanMi Requile
Posted - 2008.04.29 14:27:00 - [1048]
 

Maco miners have several ways to get their ore back to station, but most undock in a hulk , mine dock and empty their hold then start again. To impede this method couldn't a "confirmation code" be requested at every undock attempt. What I mean by a confirmation is a picture with deformed letters "drawn" inside. The player can read these artistic codes and punch them into an "undocking console" or something of the such. A macro wouldn't be able to read these confirmations code and undock.

I know that certain macro miners jetcan mine and haul themselves, but they seem rarer to me. And this sort of determined macro'er who sits in front of is PC would be much more difficult to thrawrt anyways without being detrimental to rookie players or "no war lovers".

JeanMi Requile
Posted - 2008.04.29 14:44:00 - [1049]
 

Edited by: JeanMi Requile on 29/04/2008 14:45:44
Alternative solution

Can't we imagine having a new caterogy of "saboteur" rats. These rats would have a special ability "sabotage". After hitting a target successfuly a certain number of times, they disable the high slots modules. Give these saboteur rats a "limited stealth ability". In game terms this means that drones on agressive won't autmatically engage them. The saboteur rats have off course very little hp and damage so as not to be an actual threat to rookie players. In order to make it difficult to reverse the sabotage the following scenario can be considered: sabotaged high slot items cannot be removed or repaired except at some stations with the "reverse sabotage ability" these stations would be in systems deprived of belts. Reversing sabotage may seem like a hassle but if "saboteur rats" are weak enough, only those who don't pay attention to their game should suffer the consequence of sabotage.

Carlos Hathcock1372
Posted - 2008.06.19 18:44:00 - [1050]
 

Any educated person who understands human nature and social dynamics knows that some level of governance is required to solve problems such as macro mining. The notion that educating players on the evils of buying isk is simple minded and/or simply a cop-out for not wanting to put energy/resources into solving the problem. Humans do not work that way. Everyone knows buying isk is not good for the game, but human nature dictates that I will do whatever is in my best interest today. This mentality is the genesis of human governance. Social problems are not solved by educating people on the evils of their deeds. There must be some kind of proactive policing to limit the supply or availability of whatever is enabling the problem. I live in the US where we have a significant problem with high murder rates. I also spent many years in the military, and happen to like guns, and am a big believer that the right to bear arms is what made this country. I also see countries like Canada and the UK who have very low murder rates. Whatís the difference these countries? You can carry a gun in the US and you cannot in these other countries. ďGuns donít kill people, people kill peopleĒ is a very convenient argument for an old Marine who likes his gun, but it is also socially irresponsible and short sighted.


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