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Tugris Gautama
Posted - 2007.12.26 15:45:00 - [961]
 

I didn't read all 32 pages, but aren't the ISK buyers the ones we should go after? I understand this is detrimental to CCP's business, but a few exemplary bans would dissuade people from buying ISK wouldn't it? Better yet, take away the illegal ISK from the buyer's account (+ warning) and people will think twice before spending any RL money on that kind of thing.

The ISK/Ore farmers are playing by the rules if they actually have someone sitting at the screen. But if they can't sell their ISK, they'll move to other MMO's pretty quick.

It's pretty sad if we need to butcher the game mechanics to adapt to RL sales, when all we would need is to get into the players mind that buying ISK for RL money will get them banned.

Jonathan Calvert
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.12.26 22:14:00 - [962]
 

Edited by: Jonathan Calvert on 26/12/2007 22:19:36
Edited by: Jonathan Calvert on 26/12/2007 22:17:23
My suggestion is all out war on isk farmers. Stop all development and anything not critical to running eve and put all CCP pesonelle on destroying isk farming. Eve users become ingame intelligence. Do not stop until the problem is solved, we have an international incident, people are in jail, accts are suspended, etc. I know that I and many in here can easily find 10 sites right now advertising the sale of isk, or selling isk. Heres a big one:

Google Ads.

Also, eveinfo.com advertises for swagvault.com, which sells isk.

Gee...

Registrant:
Wang Xun Yu
ZhiChun Road #48
YingDu Building C Unit 4-9A
Chaoyang District, Beijing 100038
CN

Domain Name: SWAGVAULT.COM

Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
Wang, Xun Yu
ZhiChun Road #48
YingDu Building 2 Unit 4-9A
Chaoyang District, Beijing 100038
CN
775-540-7357 fax: 775-540-7357

Cassandra Beckinsale
Posted - 2007.12.27 00:23:00 - [963]
 

CCP Stop Macro Miners
1. CCP lose about 5% of accounts income + many players leave also because they are too lazy to make money in a regular way.
2. CCP cannot sell ISK itself and get covered by ISK sellers.

CCP Do Not Stop Macro Miners
Peoples continue to fight against macrominiers beliving that CCP is supporting them, and CCP income continue to increase.

Sorry mates but i hope is clear that the main goal of CCP games is ONLY make money.

Twisted Evil

Lil'Red Ridin'Hood
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.12.27 13:12:00 - [964]
 

Edited by: Lil''Red Ridin''Hood on 27/12/2007 13:16:37
Edited by: Lil''Red Ridin''Hood on 27/12/2007 13:16:16
I'll admit straight away that I haven't read all posts of this thread.

However, I shall proceed without any caution to my own safety on this board.

So, here goes:
This morning, while sitting on the can, I had an idea of how one (or more precisely: CCP) could deal with ISK sellers.
NB: Yeap, can-sitting has a proven track-record of coming up with ideas, most of them being rather... well... of the same quality of the reason you sat down in the first place, but at times something good may come from it... But I digress.

What if... CCP would only allow (outgoing) ISK transfers up to a certain multiplier of a character's SP per month/week/decade/meowchow?

*Disclaimer* The next paragraph contains some basic math. If you are allergic to math in general, please refrain from reading it, and just assume for now that my word is the truth. Proceed at your own risk.

According to my extensive *cough* research, 1 billion ISK goes for around $50. Assuming the magical multiplier was 25 over a month's period (meaning you can only transfer 25 * your SP per month), an upcoming ISK seller would have to call a character with 12 million SP his own to break even on the subscription costs of EVE. According to general folklore, it would take a year to build such a character. Just to break even.

This way, if CCP caught a high profile ISK seller with lots of SP and shuts his/her/its account down, he/she/it will have to start from scratch. Furthermore, it would also make it easier for CCP to auto-flag potential ISK sellers. This wouldn't stop ISK sellers from buying high SP characters, that is an area that needs more investigation.

Scenario:
So, tetehsggjjjfk123 has used 95% of his margin on outgoing ISK transfers for the last 10 periods? Hmm... now either this buddy, his wife and/or kids is/are being held hostage by some mafia style organisation leeching all his hard earned ISK, being consta-ganked by pirates, or, heaven forbid, might just be an ISK seller? A few checks should hopefully shed some light on this unfortunate soul's history.

A side-effect of this - very much to the chagrin of pod ransomers - would be that pirates will probably have to settle for less ISK for their often very impressive yarrrring performances in local. There might be some work-around for this, but I can't quite figure out one myself. Even my super powers (@can) are limited.

Are there any obvious pitfalls I have missed during my can-sitting, brainstorming session? If so, please feel free to light your virtual molotov-cocktail and fling it this way.

Jonathan Calvert
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.12.27 13:25:00 - [965]
 

Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale
CCP Stop Macro Miners
1. CCP lose about 5% of accounts income + many players leave also because they are too lazy to make money in a regular way.
2. CCP cannot sell ISK itself and get covered by ISK sellers.

CCP Do Not Stop Macro Miners
Peoples continue to fight against macrominiers beliving that CCP is supporting them, and CCP income continue to increase.

Sorry mates but i hope is clear that the main goal of CCP games is ONLY make money.

Twisted Evil


Thats too simple. The only way CCP makes money is by selling a product. The only way they sell a product is by making the customer happy so that he pays for it. Without happy players, they dont pay, and isk sellers have no customers and so dont pay either. The grey area here is the isk buyers. Isk selling makes them happy, and in the end perhaps thats what Eve will become, a bunch of cheaters ganking each other.

Coldures
Posted - 2007.12.28 19:20:00 - [966]
 

Forgive my lack of exp in the game but how do you tell a big fat badger II floating in a roid field from the same using a macro???

I send my badger II out will I am at work and check on it from time time I don't use macros or scripts so how can I tell when someone is using a macro or script?


Thanks
Coldures

shady trader
Posted - 2007.12.29 12:16:00 - [967]
 

I do not beleive that CCP makes much if any money from the isk farmers due to the much ihgh costs of supporting there access. Assuming that a normal player plays for an advage of 5 hours a day and has a one month subcription. The amount CCP make per hour played is 15(sub)/30(advange days per month)/5(number of hours played) =0.1 euro per hour.

For a macro is 15(sub)/30(advange days per month)/23 (hours online per day)= 0.02 Euros per hour.

Assuming that half of the subsription is used to pay for the server and network it costs CCP 7.5 euros per month per player

however it costs 0.05(1/2 money per hour for based on player targets)*23(hours on line)*30(Advage month)= 34.5 euro's in hardware/bandwith and other support costs per isk farmer account. So unless CCP have a hidden sub rate for isk farmers at 50 Euros per month is not cost effecive.

The problem is the cost of proving tha they are an isk famrer Also its a case of wack a mole, there is little point in banning an a small goup of accounts as the same group of farmers will have mutiple groups of accounts in seperate systems, this makes rebuilding easy. That CCP like ot do is nuke the whole network. This makes rebuilding a lot slower.

CCP does need to make the penities for buying isk harsher + and advertise the fact (news item's with number of players busted for working with a pirate faction for to fit the back story). Reverse any transactions (so players selling items to isk buyers get the item back instead of lossing the isk and item). Moving the wallet more negitive say 2* isk purchesed and loss 1mil SP per 100mil isk purchesed. They can always buy more ISK to replace their losses however they cannot buy SP. If they are find buying isk ban them. Also block them from buying characters for say 6 months after they have brought isk so they cannot recover by getting a new high skilled character.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2007.12.29 12:39:00 - [968]
 

Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale
CCP Stop Macro Miners
1. CCP lose about 5% of accounts income + many players leave also because they are too lazy to make money in a regular way.
2. CCP cannot sell ISK itself and get covered by ISK sellers.

CCP Do Not Stop Macro Miners
Peoples continue to fight against macrominiers beliving that CCP is supporting them, and CCP income continue to increase.

Sorry mates but i hope is clear that the main goal of CCP games is ONLY make money.

Twisted Evil


Lots of version of this stupid post. Do a little math.

5% of players mean 6.000 account doing a minimum of 60 millions each every day, That is 360.000.000.000 (360 billions).

That mean that the maybe other 180.000 active accounts buy 20 millions every day (or 600 every month), each account doing that. For about 5 dollars/100 millions or so from the advertising I see.

Translated in $ it is 1,8 millions every day, or 54 millions/month.

If that was true CCP would sell isk directly for a lower cost, as it would give the company a huge increase in profit.



Stakhanov
Metafarmers
MeatSausage EXPRESS
Posted - 2007.12.29 12:49:00 - [969]
 

By the way , if you want to take part in the war on ISK farmers , you don't have to lobby CCP or send several petitions a day. Come to infested lowsec regions , forget about your sec status and just keep killing the farmers. That's what my corp does.

ViolenTUK
Gallente
Demolition Men
Posted - 2007.12.29 13:09:00 - [970]
 

Macro miners are a problem theres no dispute in that. As for threads about macro miners on the forums we have to bear in mind at least one factor. For every 1 person that feels they need to post about it being a problem there are 100 that dont and probably macro mine themselves. This is the real root of the problem.

I dont like macro mining but if you could press a button to wipe out macro miners you would also wipe out more than half of the subscriptions.

ViolenTUK
Gallente
Demolition Men
Posted - 2007.12.29 13:19:00 - [971]
 

Edited by: ViolenTUK on 29/12/2007 13:20:58


It would help if CCP would clarify what they feel isk farming is. Surely players dont have a problem with ratting in low sec? Surely?

Blackjack Turner
Caldari
State Protectorate
Posted - 2007.12.29 13:20:00 - [972]
 

Originally by: Coldures
Forgive my lack of exp in the game but how do you tell a big fat badger II floating in a roid field from the same using a macro???

I send my badger II out will I am at work and check on it from time time I don't use macros or scripts so how can I tell when someone is using a macro or script?


Thanks
Coldures



One of the more notable ways to spot a macro user (not a farmer) is when a macro hunter pops the hauler, and the pod continues to fly back and forth to the station at regular intervals. The mining character continues to mine until the can is full and the cargo is full at which point the mining character's lasers stop. Or, the miner is popped, the pod continues to sit there and the hauler flies back and forth like nothing's wrong. Aside from that, I know a guy that mined the roids the suspected macroer was mining until there were none left near it, the hauler continued to haul dutifully for several hours.

A hauler sitting in a veld field with a Miner 1 for several hours till it's full, then warping back and unloading is not usually considered a macroer. Or if so, he's just starting out Smile

Anti macro/farmer groups make a small dent in the farmer's/macroer's abilities to make easy isk. But it's a very small dent. I exposed a network that continues to thrive. If several of us band together, the entire network jumps into another corp or corps effectively neutralizing the war decs we're using to battle them. On a good day I can maybe knock out a few millions worth of isk these guys are making. However, they play 23/7 and work shifts. Then there's the groups that are in starter corps. Also mission farmers. Occasionally they fight back which can make for some pvp action. Overall however the frustration builds to a point that you just want to give up. And unless I've missed the CCP post on the issue, I haven't read how they feel beyond the fact they are tired of hearing about it (page one, top post in this thread).

takentwine
Posted - 2007.12.29 13:24:00 - [973]
 

Its quite perverse that the type of pvp player that do there best to destroy what they feel are macro miners/macro farmers are the very people who destroy players ships and drive them to purchase isk in the first place. Pvp players in 0.0 are a real problem.

Are pvp player calling people who run missions farmers? If so they are wrong. If you want to run missions and never pvp that is your choice as it is perfectly legitimate.

Kransthow
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2007.12.29 13:30:00 - [974]
 

Originally by: takentwine
Its quite perverse that the type of pvp player that do there best to destroy what they feel are macro miners/macro farmers are the very people who destroy players ships and drive them to purchase isk in the first place. Pvp players in 0.0 are a real problem.

Are pvp player calling people who run missions farmers? If so they are wrong. If you want to run missions and never pvp that is your choice as it is perfectly legitimate.
lol wut?

takentwine
Posted - 2007.12.29 13:32:00 - [975]
 

Originally by: Kransthow
lol wut?


My post is clear. Think about it.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2007.12.29 14:09:00 - [976]
 

Originally by: takentwine

Are pvp player calling people who run missions farmers? If so they are wrong. If you want to run missions and never pvp that is your choice as it is perfectly legitimate.


It is one of the things I try to fight regularly in this thread.

Using macro is different from farming that is different from farming for a sweatshop selling isk

Using macro is an EULA violation indifferently if it is done for personal use or selling

Farming is legitimate if done for personal use: running the same mission more than once, ratting in the belts, mining, ecc. are all form of farming

Farming for a sweatshop selling isk is again a EULA violation


Lot of people refer to players running mission as a system to get isk as "farming", the same for people ratting. That sometime ingenerae confusion in the thems used.


Kransthow
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2007.12.29 14:26:00 - [977]
 

Fine then
Originally by: takentwine
Its quite perverse that the type of pvp player that do there best to destroy what they feel are macro miners/macro farmers are the very people who destroy players ships and drive them to purchase isk in the first place.
UCAM macro hunter != Carebear ganking pirate. And people aren't buying isk just to keep themselves in a ship, they buy isk so they can fly the best ships all the time and lose them.

Originally by: takentwine
Pvp players in 0.0 are a real problem.
A combination of high ship loss rates and the feel of a need to always fly the best often drive 0.0 pvpers to buy isk to fuel their expensieve habits. Though a lot of 0.0 players may buy isk, that dosen't mean that 0.0 players = evil. It's just more useful for them, and are therfore more suspectiable to it.

Originally by: takentwine
Are pvp player calling people who run missions farmers?
Nope, farmers are those who run isk gathering operations to sell isk for real money

Originally by: takentwine
If you want to run missions and never pvp that is your choice as it is perfectly legitimate.
Agreed

Snowcrash Winterheart2
Gallente
Concordia Discors
Posted - 2007.12.29 18:36:00 - [978]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
Using macro is an EULA violation indifferently if it is done for personal use or selling


I think CCP need to clarify what they consider a macro. Because things like the G15 enable multiple keypresses and such via macros and those are allowed.

Green Cobra
Posted - 2007.12.30 14:03:00 - [979]
 

The big problem is when macroscripting is combined with executable hooks creating a bot. Lightweigh macros still require player interaction but bots do anything for days on end. I searched some and found many that is built for 24/7 all the time mining (MineX looks like one of the most advanced).

So the thing is to encrypt the core. This should have been done BEFORE trinity as it will meen a big redo of the sourcecode. If it was impossible to hook into the EVE Core the bot mining issue whould disapeer alltogether. Idea

Gigi Kent
Caldari
Posted - 2008.01.04 16:12:00 - [980]
 

bump

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.01.04 16:21:00 - [981]
 

Originally by: Kransthow
Originally by: takentwine
Are pvp player calling people who run missions farmers?

Nope, farmers are those who run isk gathering operations to sell isk for real money



Want me to link you to some hundred post where PvPers call mission runners farmer?

It is one of the reasons why I nitpick about the terms used.



Sin Fae
Operational Detachment-Alpha
Posted - 2008.01.04 17:11:00 - [982]
 

I really don't mind macrofarming, as it is how I make alot of my isk (stealing/blowing up), one thing I would recommend is:

-Make the Hulk have less cargo space so that it has to use jet cans.

-Make give a buff to mining barges/exhumers so macroers go back into mining versus mission running - reason being players can do something vs miners easier and better vs mission runners.

Cadde
Gallente
221st Century Warfare
Posted - 2008.01.09 11:32:00 - [983]
 

Daym, this seems to be a big problem!

I've read some of the post and not all, but here goes...

CCP should implement a system that detects suspicious isk gains from mining.
There is only so much isk a player can earn the REAL way.
When the alarm bell sounds a GM will dispatch to the location as a GHOST and observe the miner, see if there is anything suspicious about that miner.

For instance, it is doing things PERFECTLY etc etc.
Then he will dispatch a bunch of NPC pirates and see what the reaction to the threat is.
Other "human response" actions is monitored to gather evidence.
Nothing is really done at this point but the account at hand is put on a "bot" monitor list, a system will gather statistics about this player for... say three days and if all that account does is mine, mine, mine and systematically for more than 12 hours a day. The account will be flagged as a bot miner.

At this stage another test is issued where the miner is flooded with pirates, the GM will monitor response from the "player".

If he tries to fend off the bots and then flees to another roid stream, then move on to point 2.
If not and he just gets "bot" like owned, then put down the BAN hammer.

POINT 2:
Put the miner on a another 3 day monitoring and see if he persists with mining and in a similar "perfect" pattern, then spawn two "PvP players" (actually GM's) with BC's and engage him in some sweet combat action.
A normal human response would most likely be one of the following.

1. Ask the BC's to friggin STOP.
2. Flee the scene to nearest station and dock, sell all minerals and **** his pants etc etc. (If i was faced with that i would flee the REGION by the way)
3. Any other normal reaction you can think of...

A non normal response would be:

1. He insta-flees the scene and takes up mining in a neighboring asteroid belt or the next system.
2. He does a return to station and sells and then return to his "pattern" mining.
3. He returns to station, logs off only to log on 1 - 2 hours later and keep mining in the same "dangerous" place.

If in doubt, repeat tests.
And once prooven to actually be a normal human being then mark the player as a "efficient miner".


END OF STORY.


The only way man can win against machine is to compare the pattern of human beings with the pattern of a script.
And if the botters find a way to detect you, good for them but all you need to do is change the way you approach the problem.

In the end, it's not really normal for any human being to make 50 mil+ isk on a daily basis 7 days a week just by mining. (bots can do that though)
Also, it's not really normal for humans to be PERFECT players, humans make mistakes! Bots doesn't...

My 2 cents.

By the way, i am a new player and im starting to get addicted. But after hearing about this "cheat" and whatnot i am starting to second guess if i will insert the next payment and instead just stick to playing games with friends whom i know isn't cheating.

z0rb4
Bathrobe flip-flops and bowling dreams
Posted - 2008.01.17 03:56:00 - [984]
 

Edited by: z0rb4 on 17/01/2008 03:56:37
My little corp is completely made of RL friends (we all meet on regular basis) and several weeks ago we kicked and petitioned a member after he showed us how well his newly-purchased macro-mining prog. was doing on his laptop (as U can figure out, I'm not biased towards MMO macro-something :-).

Obviously, petition had no effect at all (yes, he's still doing it), but we got the opportunity to learn several things.
Many (most) MM progs no longer use jetcans: they fill-up the cargohold and directly deliver their load (so stealing isn't a viable option). They also fight back rats with drones, but flee when shields go below 50% (it sometimes fails due to roids on path and he has to buy/fit/rig a new hulk :-).
There's little we can do to disrupt their activity (i'm planning take a nanoclaw and keep his exhumer bumped until an better spawn blows him up, but this is a personal touch...).

To the point.

Of the many ideas I got on how to make macroing no longer worthwile, I think the following are the most viable (they should be needed only for NPC corp members):

- Progressive increase of dock/undock times when their take place more often than a given threshold for a given ship/station/cargohold contents/whatever (obviously not to apply to small cargobays).

- Put fewer, larger roids in hisec belts, but DRAMATICALLY decrease their sig. radii (let's say 1m or less), thus requesting looong lock times.
This should force hi-sec miners to keep their long-to-achieve lock and use secure containers, then haul when they're full or rely on an indy-pilot mate (this should be much harder to automatize). Low-end mining vessels (rookie ships and mining frigs) should have a special bonus on roids lock times, thus helping noob players, still "unaware of cans"/"unable to fly industrials", in their new EVE experience.




It's just an idea that ofc would need A LOT of refining...

Z

Eternal Hatred
Amarr
Pantsu Garu Limited Technologies
Posted - 2008.01.17 07:05:00 - [985]
 

I just wanted to add that macromining is cool and I know people from FINLAND who does it Cool

Back Again
Caldari
Hazardous Situations Club
Posted - 2008.01.17 07:16:00 - [986]
 

EVE is plagued!!!! Every place you go you will find isk sellers and their counterparts isk farmers (the 1st is the less than 1 day Char that spam local channel with sites advertising, the 2nd is the one doing mission, ratting, mining to get enough isk to transfer for the isk buyer).

I'm not filling petitions against them anymore as I feel it's something that CCP don't care about. It seems don't matter who buy or who sell isk in this game... that reminds me an old MMO I was playing some years ago that got plagued with cheaters (macroers) and the game owners were not taking action against them, the said game was sold to some american distributor but was already too late to save the game from its death.

In fact, I think CCP staff is becoming fed up with all us that talk about macroing and isk selling, as it is clear enough in the OP, including some treats to the playerbase.

Lets see what happens next.

ugh

In Theory
Posted - 2008.01.17 07:35:00 - [987]
 

read first few pages, if this was already said, then it nonetheless bears repeating.

The final solution to virtual currency vendors (being politically correct here) would be to remove the ability to transfer in-game money between characters on different accounts.
Cons:
>>>Hinders alt accounts, thus limiting real players.
>>>prevents friends from helping 'new players' by throwing them isk to get started (a big help when you have friends in the game, ship upgrades at the beginning make everything easier)
>>>removes fund transfer between corp members (but the corp wallet exists for that reason generally)

Pros:
>>>near complete shutdown of virtual currency sales. without a way to transfer the money, no reason to farm it.

That's the extreme method-- and it certainly would work. But imo, not even I feel such an extreme measure would be worth the loss of alts and new player assistance.
===============================

I liked the idea of forcing expulsion from npc corps after 15-30 days (about the time you'd need to train for a retriever and raise the funds). Allowing the players to war-dec macro-miners and at least greatly hinder the farmers.

Also limiting certain ships to player-run corps only (not available for purchase by npc corp members) would severely hamper farming... such as mining barges (and exhumers thusly) and battlecruisers (and larger/better) in npc corps could be disallowed.
--the reasoning would be that generally the npc corp doesn't support/have access/etc. to more advanced technologies that stronger player-run corps can get.



Something that might kill two birds with one stone;
limit the valuable minerals available in hi-sec belts, make it more or less 90-95% veldspar... with only sprinkling of plagioclase and scordite.
Not only will this make hi-sec mining less profitable to farmers (sorry player miners), but makes the rich belts of low-sec more appealing and worth the risk.
Low-sec belts need to have more valuable minerals in larger quantities... veldspar being a 1% minority if at all.

But nothing against miners, some of my friends are hardcore miners... but even they agree- low-sec isn't worth it, and hi-sec is plagued by farmers.
Push the macro-miners into low-sec so they can profit and let the players have fun.
YARRRR!!

Stakhanov
Metafarmers
MeatSausage EXPRESS
Posted - 2008.01.17 12:00:00 - [988]
 

Originally by: In Theory
>>>near complete shutdown of virtual currency sales. without a way to transfer the money, no reason to farm it.


Wishful thinking. As long as you can mine , sell your ore , buy pricy items and drop them in space , it's impossible to prevent funds transfers.


Quote:
I liked the idea of forcing expulsion from npc corps after 15-30 days (about the time you'd need to train for a retriever and raise the funds). Allowing the players to war-dec macro-miners and at least greatly hinder the farmers.


Much needed to balance highsec risk/reward , but I doubt CCP will implement it.

Also , farmers like to jump corps. A lot.

Quote:
Push the macro-miners into low-sec so they can profit and let the players have fun.
YARRRR!!


The ISK farmers already infest half of lowsec , my corp has a hard enough time cleaning the place with the current residents Mad

Pax Ratlin
Gallente
Metalworks
Majesta Empire
Posted - 2008.01.17 13:55:00 - [989]
 

Originally by: In Theory
I liked the idea of forcing expulsion from npc corps after 15-30 days (about the time you'd need to train for a retriever and raise the funds).

Allowing the players to war-dec macro-miners and at least greatly hinder the farmers.

Also limiting certain ships to player-run corps only (not available for purchase by npc corp members) would severely hamper farming... such as mining barges (and exhumers thusly) and battlecruisers (and larger/better) in npc corps could be disallowed.


All these ideas have been discussed at length over and over again. For the many mnay reasons why none of these would effect macro-miners for more than a minute please search the forum and have a read.

Originally by: In Theory
--the reasoning would be that generally the npc corp doesn't support/have access/etc. to more advanced technologies that stronger player-run corps can get.


Again been discussed to death both OOC and IC, basically the vast majority of npc corps are government/military/multi-empire businesses and as such would have more advanced tech than player run corps.

Originally by: In Theory
limit the valuable minerals available in hi-sec belts, make it more or less 90-95% veldspar... with only sprinkling of plagioclase and scordite.

Not only will this make hi-sec mining less profitable to farmers (sorry player miners), but makes the rich belts of low-sec more appealing and worth the risk.


Again this has been disccused over and over again, basically it boils down to time vs percieved risk, most players and virtually all macro miners would take the greater time scale needed to make isk over the threat of low sec.

Originally by: In Theory
Low-sec belts need to have more valuable minerals in larger quantities... veldspar being a 1% minority if at all.
low-sec isn't worth it, and hi-sec is plagued by farmers.


A number of points here, firstly yes i think most people would agree that they would like to see the value of going to low sec increased, again the 'reward vs potential risk' ratio is seen as not worth the effort. Although personally i do spend at least 25% of my time as a miner in low sec, because with the right ship and fitting and simple precauctions the potential risk can be greatly reduced.

Secondly everything you have suggested would greatly effect the macro miners, but sadly the miners are humans and not machines and in less than a day would find some simple and easy way around the restrictions you have suggested while new players and casual players would be serverly punished.

Thirdly, the only way for Virtual Vendors to be removed from the game with any speed and efficiency would be for CCP to sell isk cheaper than the Vendors...... a prospect no-one in their right mind would want to see because a game which requires skill, patience, determination and thought would be reduced to who had the biggest rl bank balance.

What we (i use the royal we here as i'm presumptious and i'm gonna speak for every eve player Wink ) want is for CCP to devote a team of GM's to actively hunt out the vendors and ban them from the game using the current EULA. But this isn't going to happen for a number of reasons, 1) cost of employing GM's and 2) once you decide you have gotten rid of them and disband the team of GM's the miners will be back in force the next day.

There is no simple solution to this problem, no magic bullet and currently there isn't even a complex and workable solution either Sad but that shouldn't stop us looking for one.

Back Again
Caldari
Hazardous Situations Club
Posted - 2008.01.20 03:35:00 - [990]
 

I like the idea about CCP setting a "fake" isk selling site and acting in game with that "asdfg" Chars to spam local, just to pick some of the isk buyers and give them a nice present instead of the isk.

Anyways, I don't think CCP will do that, but some other "player" will surely do it, as was always said, and in the end the isk buyer just keep the Char... no wallet, no assets. Just hope they don't get credit card or any other critical info in the process.

I'm amazed how ppl trust that "lovely" spams that talk about "secure transfer".



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