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Derpina
Posted - 2011.07.14 08:57:00 - [1081]
 

Edited by: Derpina on 14/07/2011 08:57:04
I'm trying to use 3DSMax to mess with the exported models but every time I try to render it this happens:
http://i.imgur.com/fYaQL.png

Don't know what I'm doing wrong. The texture is applied correctly in the viewport but not in the render.

Snaggle Pu55
Posted - 2011.07.15 07:57:00 - [1082]
 

Hi Guys

Sorry Im currently to busy to write a full tut on creating the characters but heres a basic overview

There is a problem with Tri Exporter with a lot of new assets, Newer assets have multiple sub meshes, you can check this by downloading Granny Viewer Linkage

Tri exporter will only export the 1st mesh and skip the rest.

So Ive been using a Granny to valve .SMD coverter Linkage search for grnreader98.v1.4.0.3.debug.rar this was posted on this forum on some page.

Thus I can convert out all the sub meshes to a valve .SMD file, this file also contains the full skeleton for characters as well as skin weights! also turrets are fully rigged and skinned when imported, theres are a few artifacts from the conversion but overall its pretty tops.

When converting its simple drag and drop with the .gr2 file onto the grnreader98.exe file, it gives you some options, you might need to experiment here to see what works for you with the importer you will use with your 3d app.

You need to convert each section of the character one by one, so the face, the hands, the torso, the feet, the pants, the top, the hair, the eyebrows, etc... into its own .smd file, each file will also contain the full character skeleton.

Then using a valve .smd importer plugin I import the converted .smd file into maya, this takes a while to process, "the CQ pod took 14 hours" and finding the correct importer plugin took a while, im using "Source Exporter 2.5 for maya 4-7 updated by Prall" a quick google should find it.

I import each section seperatly and save it as a seperate file, so i can later import all the sections into one file with one skeleton.

To combine all the seperate peices into one character with only one skeleton and maintaing the existing skin wieghts, I use a maya script called "DoraSkinWeightImpExp" this enables me to save out the wieghts for each character section and then re skin the sections to one skeleton and the reimport the skin weights.

Hopefully you should now have a single skeleton with all the skin attachments weighted.

Textures are simlar to the ships, however various textures are non square and appear not correctly aligned when opened, i use the normal maps to overlay and align all the other textures by eye currently. The characters also use heavy use of masking.

I ressembled the captains quarters also using the gr2 to .smd method, the ammount of shaders, materials and textures is crazy, it took ages and im still not happy with the current shader setup if got,







Craig Linford
Gallente
Universal Freelance
Posted - 2011.07.15 11:53:00 - [1083]
 

Edited by: Craig Linford on 15/07/2011 11:54:17
Originally by: Derpina
Edited by: Derpina on 14/07/2011 08:57:04
I'm trying to use 3DSMax to mess with the exported models but every time I try to render it this happens:
http://i.imgur.com/fYaQL.png

Don't know what I'm doing wrong. The texture is applied correctly in the viewport but not in the render.


Can you print screen your mappings in the Slate Material Editor please?

What Render are you using? vray?

Originally by: Snaggle Pu55
Hi Guys

Sorry Im currently to busy to write a full tut on creating the characters but heres a basic overview

There is a problem with Tri Exporter with a lot of new assets, Newer assets have multiple sub meshes, you can check this by downloading Granny Viewer Linkage

Tri exporter will only export the 1st mesh and skip the rest.

So Ive been using a Granny to valve .SMD coverter Linkage search for grnreader98.v1.4.0.3.debug.rar this was posted on this forum on some page.

Thus I can convert out all the sub meshes to a valve .SMD file, this file also contains the full skeleton for characters as well as skin weights! also turrets are fully rigged and skinned when imported, theres are a few artifacts from the conversion but overall its pretty tops.

When converting its simple drag and drop with the .gr2 file onto the grnreader98.exe file, it gives you some options, you might need to experiment here to see what works for you with the importer you will use with your 3d app.

You need to convert each section of the character one by one, so the face, the hands, the torso, the feet, the pants, the top, the hair, the eyebrows, etc... into its own .smd file, each file will also contain the full character skeleton.

Then using a valve .smd importer plugin I import the converted .smd file into maya, this takes a while to process, "the CQ pod took 14 hours" and finding the correct importer plugin took a while, im using "Source Exporter 2.5 for maya 4-7 updated by Prall" a quick google should find it.

I import each section seperatly and save it as a seperate file, so i can later import all the sections into one file with one skeleton.

To combine all the seperate peices into one character with only one skeleton and maintaing the existing skin wieghts, I use a maya script called "DoraSkinWeightImpExp" this enables me to save out the wieghts for each character section and then re skin the sections to one skeleton and the reimport the skin weights.

Hopefully you should now have a single skeleton with all the skin attachments weighted.

Textures are simlar to the ships, however various textures are non square and appear not correctly aligned when opened, i use the normal maps to overlay and align all the other textures by eye currently. The characters also use heavy use of masking.

I ressembled the captains quarters also using the gr2 to .smd method, the ammount of shaders, materials and textures is crazy, it took ages and im still not happy with the current shader setup if got,



Cheers Snaggle.

Ill take a look a this.

NaK'Lin
Posted - 2011.07.15 16:24:00 - [1084]
 

Originally by: Snaggle Pu55
Hello forums

I'm currently creating a Eve Fan Trailer in Unreal UDK.

Thought Id share some progress im having with getting Characters and Ships into Unreal UDK from Eve.

Character WIP

Ive also created a Wip tutorial for Ships,

Ships Tut

I plan to make one for the characters as well, but be warned its rather more complicated.

I'll continue posting progress as it develops.





I <3 you.
I never got the SPECULAR POWER to work as intended. As for the rest of your material set-up, it is very similar to what i had come up with in the end as well. This just confirms being on the right track.

Your SPECULAR POWER group in your tut for ships saved me a lot of time and hence I thank you.

I usually went through 3DSMAX for the mesh conversion pipeline, since I am used to model in MAX, but your MAYA approach works as well.


I also had a look into the new turrets and characters and had the same problem with Tri-Exporter. I ventured forth by using SMD conversion as well, but I lost a TON of time by merging all elements and applying all weights manually, which somehow always resulted in some ... weird results.
I will look into DoraSkinWeightImpExp. I might get ahead faster.

For the time being I keep focusing on the ships and then go over to the turrets and keep station interiors and characters for last.

On a sidenote, I keep working on my script to convert the information in the RED files directly into HLSL. Some models / materials still throw up some errors and need some manual "tuning". But as for now, with your additional information, it takes care of the bulk process.

I am aiming at having most conversions handled by the program I am writing, or write a separate plugin / script for Maya/Max for model conversion.

This (LINKAGE) is the result of an automated script generating the HLSL from the RED file, for UDK Materials.

--NaK

NaK'Lin
Posted - 2011.07.15 17:14:00 - [1085]
 

Originally by: Derpina
Edited by: Derpina on 14/07/2011 08:57:04
I'm trying to use 3DSMax to mess with the exported models but every time I try to render it this happens:
http://i.imgur.com/fYaQL.png

Don't know what I'm doing wrong. The texture is applied correctly in the viewport but not in the render.


Could it be you are using a Mental Ray Material (mi) yet still rendering with the Default Scanline Renderer ?
That would display materials correctly in the viewport, yet not render them in the render output.

Please elaborate about your workflow or show some more screenshots in order for us to help.

Roc Wieler
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.07.15 19:00:00 - [1086]
 

Snaggle Puss,

Call me lazy or what have you, but I would be greatly indebted to you if I could have an OBJ version of the Captain's Quarters. REALLY indebted.

Lupus Hekki
Caldari
Legio Carminatus
Posted - 2011.07.17 22:51:00 - [1087]
 

Originally by: Roc Wieler
Snaggle Puss,

Call me lazy or what have you, but I would be greatly indebted to you if I could have an OBJ version of the Captain's Quarters. REALLY indebted.


Very hard as it is split in a billion pieces

Roc Wieler
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.07.18 12:29:00 - [1088]
 

Ugh. I liked it when things were easy to pull out via Triexporter.

I tried that Granny program, but am honesty clueless. Couldn't figure out how to get it to read a file. Incompatible file formats. Triexporter lets you choose a res folder, and shows the compatible contents within. Does the other program allow that?

I couldn't figure it out. Mad

Roc Wieler
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.07.18 12:32:00 - [1089]
 

Also, what are you guys using to read the .red files? That's something else that's always eluded me. I feel like I'm doing everything manual through visual guesswork. While artistic, I think there are optimized ways to improve my production pipeline here that I'm not getting ...

Craig Linford
Gallente
Universal Freelance
Posted - 2011.07.18 13:36:00 - [1090]
 

Edited by: Craig Linford on 18/07/2011 13:36:56
Originally by: Roc Wieler
Ugh. I liked it when things were easy to pull out via Triexporter.

I tried that Granny program, but am honesty clueless. Couldn't figure out how to get it to read a file. Incompatible file formats. Triexporter lets you choose a res folder, and shows the compatible contents within. Does the other program allow that?

I couldn't figure it out. Mad


Use TriExporter to Export the RES folder to a hard drive then use Granny Reader.

Originally by: Roc Wieler
Also, what are you guys using to read the .red files? That's something else that's always eluded me. I feel like I'm doing everything manual through visual guesswork. While artistic, I think there are optimized ways to improve my production pipeline here that I'm not getting ...


I use Notepad++ to read the .RED file.

Roc Wieler
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.07.18 14:04:00 - [1091]
 

Sorry, wasn't clear. I can "read" the .red file with Notepad++. I just don't know what to do with the information.

Lupus Hekki
Caldari
Legio Carminatus
Posted - 2011.07.18 14:18:00 - [1092]
 

Edited by: Lupus Hekki on 18/07/2011 14:22:09
Edited by: Lupus Hekki on 18/07/2011 14:17:58
Originally by: Roc Wieler
Sorry, wasn't clear. I can "read" the .red file with Notepad++. I just don't know what to do with the information.


Lets say This is your .RED file
At line 22 it says "MaterialDiffuseColor"
So the next 3 (or 1 depending on the age of the .RED file) lines determine the R/G/B color values (v1 = red, v2 = green, v3 = blue)

For values such as the ones at line 54 (GlowColor) it has more than 1, you divide these by 3 (the largest value rounded up)
so 2.823529 will become 0.9411763

At line 113 it states "DiffuseMap"
this is the diffuse map for the first material (the first texture you click in TriExporter), the next material (i have chosen a bad .RED file so i can't explain this using the RED file) will have the 2nd texture

Same goes with NormalMap and MaskMap

Look at line 297 (its actually line 1297, but the bar is too small) it says "Locators" indicating that from this point, the file will tell you where the turrets or boosters (those jet flames) are
locator_turret_X indicates a turret (it explains itself right?)
locator_booster_X indicates a booster (but i'm not really sure if it is used at all)

If you go to line 174 (1174) you'll see spriteSets indicating from here there are emitted sprites (mostly glowing things like those blinking lights)
Everything is self explaining, if a color value is not specified (like B in this case) Its usually either 0 or 1
blinkRate is in seconds.

All position values are the position values of its ORIGINAL SIZE (i've noticed that if i import these models into Blender, they come out enormously large and i downsize them, making this hard. So i advise scaling them down by a fraction, not just scaling them down. This way you can easily divide those params) For example -18.3289 (line 192/1192) will become -0.916445 if i have scaled it down by 20.

In blender you can scale down by amounts by typing in the number whilst scaling, or you can change each scale value manually. Not sure about other programs, but the 2nd method (scale each value individually) will work with everything.

If that all makes sense.

Lupus Hekki
Caldari
Legio Carminatus
Posted - 2011.07.18 14:26:00 - [1093]
 

Edited by: Lupus Hekki on 18/07/2011 14:27:19
forgot there was a edit button :|

Roc Wieler
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.07.18 17:56:00 - [1094]
 

Ok, so positioning is the big part, for turrets and the like. Hmmm, I use C4D, and usually bring my models in at 1/10 scale. Nice easy number for rounding. Will let you know how it goes.

Wild Rho
Amarr
Silent Core
Posted - 2011.07.19 05:51:00 - [1095]
 

Turret and booster positions in blender are really simple. Just create an Empty for each point, use the ship object as that Empty's parent and fill in the coordinates as they are in the red file (just remember to invert the x coordinates). If you have parented the Empty's properly they will automatically adjust to the scale of the ship object when you resize it.

When it comes to adding turrets and boosters just parent them to the appropriate empty and you're done. No matter how you scale the ships the turrets size and positions adjust.

NaK'Lin
Posted - 2011.07.19 06:10:00 - [1096]
 

@ Snaggle Pu55

I checked your Ship Tutorial further...
There are some questions coming up:

The reflections:
Somehow with your material, reflections show on correctly, yet they also show reflections on originally "matte" parts of the hull.
eg:
your render
in-game Screenshot

The in-game screenshot shows some traces of specularity on the non reflective parts, yet there is no reflection, per se. No chromatic effect.
It sure depends on lights, placement and intensity, as well as camera angle, but no way how i turn and twist, it keeps reflecting more than in-game.
have you noticed that as well, or is it just me doing something wrong?
I have found some possible workaround by altering the material in some ways, yet even though visually correct, it seems wrong, considering the naming in the red file.
I will have to try out on more ships to confirm.

Could you show me an Armageddon Render of your UDK model utilizing your material "preset"? (\res\dx9\model\ship\amarr\ab2)
It somehow shows.... odd.

Other than that, great job.
If I can find a "preset" material composition working for all ships that would do the reflections accurate, i'll gladly share here with you.

--NaK

Wild Rho
Amarr
Silent Core
Posted - 2011.07.19 20:23:00 - [1097]
 

Nak, I know your post is addressed to snaggle but the trick to resolving the reflection issue you mentioned is to use the mask maps to decide what sections of the texture are reflective and which ones are not.

NaK'Lin
Posted - 2011.07.20 06:27:00 - [1098]
 

Ya, well, the goal here is to create ONE material network in UDK that'll work for each and every single material in eve applied to ships (depending on the FX category).

EVE is just feeding the different data for nodes via RED file to the model. The same thing has to be achievable in UDK.
Only then, I can make that 100% waterproof script for direct conversion as a tool.

Problem with the masks is, sometimes specularity mask works perfect, and sometimes mask mask works perfect.

I am going to try to make some screenshots or vid captures, in order to make this more understandable.

Model export / import has been resolved so far and shouldn't be a problem for anyone by now. The only thing where it still is icky is on the recreation of the 100% in-game effect of the materials.

It'd be nice if we all pool our materials together. For UDK, max and Maya (for those not wanting to work in udk).

I am willing to share the whole UDK library I am making with all eve assets that are exportable as a pack for people to DL in the end. But for that it has to be perfect first.
As far as character animations go, I also have access to a motion capture studio here, so I have tons of mocap files and am in the position to do my own mocaps for free and can also do some on request (unless i get like 100 custom requests from everybody, since this is on a favor basis from a colleague letting me use their company's equipment).
Potentially we have the ability to create a pool of resources for people doing stills or machinima which would be huge.

--NaK

Roc Wieler
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.07.20 13:53:00 - [1099]
 

Originally by: NaK'Lin

As far as character animations go, I also have access to a motion capture studio here,

--NaK


Um, dude? I would really like to talk offline to you about this. It would be beneficial. Can you email me at roc@rocwieler.com please?

Craig Linford
Gallente
Universal Freelance
Posted - 2011.07.20 17:47:00 - [1100]
 

Originally by: NaK'Lin
Ya, well, the goal here is to create ONE material network in UDK that'll work for each and every single material in eve applied to ships (depending on the FX category).

EVE is just feeding the different data for nodes via RED file to the model. The same thing has to be achievable in UDK.
Only then, I can make that 100% waterproof script for direct conversion as a tool.

Problem with the masks is, sometimes specularity mask works perfect, and sometimes mask mask works perfect.

I am going to try to make some screenshots or vid captures, in order to make this more understandable.

Model export / import has been resolved so far and shouldn't be a problem for anyone by now. The only thing where it still is icky is on the recreation of the 100% in-game effect of the materials.

It'd be nice if we all pool our materials together. For UDK, max and Maya (for those not wanting to work in udk).

I am willing to share the whole UDK library I am making with all eve assets that are exportable as a pack for people to DL in the end. But for that it has to be perfect first.
As far as character animations go, I also have access to a motion capture studio here, so I have tons of mocap files and am in the position to do my own mocaps for free and can also do some on request (unless i get like 100 custom requests from everybody, since this is on a favor basis from a colleague letting me use their company's equipment).
Potentially we have the ability to create a pool of resources for people doing stills or machinima which would be huge.

--NaK


Nice NaK.

I am using Max 2012 as working on stills.

Tried UDK and managed to create the Mesh and Materials. But as to exporting it I got lost, so sticking with Max.

Done a few renders already and getting there, another on the way, 2 hours to go :D

Being a newbie I would greatly appreciate it the work your offering.


Lupus Hekki
Caldari
Legio Carminatus
Posted - 2011.07.23 07:06:00 - [1101]
 

Edited by: Lupus Hekki on 23/07/2011 07:06:41
Originally by: NaK'Lin
I am willing to share the whole UDK library I am making with all eve assets that are exportable as a pack for people to DL in the end. But for that it has to be perfect first.


Won't that be like, ginormous in size?

NaK'Lin
Posted - 2011.07.23 12:57:00 - [1102]
 

Originally by: Lupus Hekki
Edited by: Lupus Hekki on 23/07/2011 07:06:41
Originally by: NaK'Lin
I am willing to share the whole UDK library I am making with all eve assets that are exportable as a pack for people to DL in the end. But for that it has to be perfect first.


Won't that be like, ginormous in size?


Well, TBH, you can compress them and save more space for DL.
But in a time and age where people DL games and movies of several GB off the internet, its all a matter of "return on investment". you can either sit there for a VERY long time and do it yourself, or let your DL run and DL a few GB and have it all done. ;P

By my estimates we will be looking at 1-2GB roughly.

The problem lies in the Textures. EVE is working with 3 files where they can pull and combine the layers as they see fit. In UDK i "could" do it, but its a huge additional workload and complicates the material.
I am looking into it nonetheless. So, for every 3 .DDS files in EVE, we are talking about 5 .TGA files in UDK. Thats blowing up Memory to 166% for all texture resources in numbers; not to mention compression ratio.

In the case of the apocalypse, we are talking about 30.8 MB vs. 4.7 MB on raw resources on your HDD. However, UDK does compress its .UPK resource file contents, so the final result is hard to tell at this point.

Still, I don't believe size will be that much of an issue.
Hell, this thread has been read so many times, we could even torrent share the file.

It is just such a pain to get all assets in the game, with right sockets for turrets and engine trails and so on and so forth. Not to mention animated turrets are a pain as well.

Back to work....
--NaK

Lupus Hekki
Caldari
Legio Carminatus
Posted - 2011.07.23 14:39:00 - [1103]
 

Originally by: NaK'Lin
DL games and movies of several GB off the internet, its all a matter of "return on investment". you can either sit there for a VERY long time and do it yourself, or let your DL run and DL a few GB and have it all done. ;P


You have 4 options
a/ Invest alot of money in a server with high/unlimited bandwidth limits
b/ Use bittorrent (P2P can be legal too)
c/ Use a premium file host
d/ Split the file into several pieces

NaK'Lin
Posted - 2011.07.23 15:02:00 - [1104]
 

Originally by: Lupus Hekki

You have 4 options
a/ Invest alot of money in a server with high/unlimited bandwidth limits
b/ Use bittorrent (P2P can be legal too)
c/ Use a premium file host
d/ Split the file into several pieces


a) I do have access to unlimited bandwidth FTP hosts on good old OC-12 connections. should do the trick. However I do use them professionally, so I will have to check on final file sizes

b) Is the easiest and simplest version. Drawback is that people would have to to share and not be selfish and cut the seed once their own DL is done

c) no way i pay for that, if i use a public filehost, i might as well get to option d)

d) very viable option and possibly my "backup" choice of preference anyway.


Anyway, don't worry about size. its the least of my troubles at the moment... first of all it needs to be finished... lol

cheers mate, and thanks for the support nonetheless.

--NaK

Lupus Hekki
Caldari
Legio Carminatus
Posted - 2011.08.03 16:21:00 - [1105]
 

bump

How is everyone doing with their Modeling? Anything to share?
I'm trying to figure out how to make those jet beams correctly, got the textures, got the .red files, just now composing it all.

Also working on a .blue to .red converter/decompiler

Wild Rho
Amarr
Silent Core
Posted - 2011.08.06 07:05:00 - [1106]
 

Finished the first minute or so of my own little project.

Lupus Hekki
Caldari
Legio Carminatus
Posted - 2011.08.07 18:00:00 - [1107]
 

I wonder how i can export the captains quarters...

Roc Wieler
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.08.08 14:42:00 - [1108]
 

Originally by: Lupus Hekki
I wonder how i can export the captains quarters...


If you figure it out, please do let me know.

AlleyKat
Gallente
The Unwanted.
Posted - 2011.08.08 19:23:00 - [1109]
 

Originally by: Roc Wieler
Originally by: Lupus Hekki
I wonder how i can export the captains quarters...


If you figure it out, please do let me know.


It's in several pieces and if you've ever played with technical Lego, it'll be a sinch


Roc Wieler
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.08.09 17:15:00 - [1110]
 

Originally by: AlleyKat
Originally by: Roc Wieler
Originally by: Lupus Hekki
I wonder how i can export the captains quarters...


If you figure it out, please do let me know.


It's in several pieces and if you've ever played with technical Lego, it'll be a sinch




Oh I know how to pull ships out, furniture out, etc, etc, but the actual walls, floors, stairs and the like all come out corrupted.

Someone mentioned another approach recently but I can't seem to find the post.

If you could elaborate for me a bit, that would be helpful.


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