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blankseplocked The downward evolution of agent missions
 
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Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Posted - 2006.01.02 07:41:00 - [91]
 

About deadspaces being "instances" is pretty much true because I asked devs in fanfest about it and they even admited it. They hired guys from FunCom (makers of Anarchy-Online) who made AO's wonderful mission system (yes, it's still ahead of its time!) and they then created deadspace missions what we see today. Nifty, eh? Rolling Eyes

EVE missions was unique when they were outside deadspace .. boring, yes but at least they were more fun.

We should start petition about turning deadspace missions to be more like "rare missions" or those storyline missions. I mean .. wtf in 1.0 space there is "DEADSPACE" pocket with 20 enemy battleships ... Rolling Eyes

Snublefot
Posted - 2006.01.02 11:27:00 - [92]
 

Now, I'm nowhere near lvl 4 missions. In fact I got blasted out of the sky in a level 2 mission. Okay, I'm in a frigate (Kestrel), but the gap between lvl 1 and lvl 2 is insane. Also the lvl 2 mission vary way too much i difficullty.

So whats fun in deadspace missions?
* Blowing stuff up!

Whats directly broken:
* Your thrown right into the NPC group. There is no time to get range. Your either loosing badly or winning without problems.
* Once you draw aggro and are forced to leave, the NPCs will camp the warp even closer.

Most of this would be solved if you had the ability to select how close to the spawn you would warp. Combined with a bit more space between the spawns you would have the option of using tactics.

There should also be a bit more tought in what abilities the NPCs have. You most certainly dont want a shieldtank with missiles and 2 guns that can warp for 2k speed and on top of that have defensive missiles that work every time. There need to be some tradeofs. The number of missile launchers should be limited. With the NPC groups having a nice setup, some tactic would have to be used (take out the hard hitting long range first etc etc). 5 of the long range hard hitters at the same time is just frustrating (generally speaking again).

Rooting should never be used in solo missions! Of course, its a nice win tactic for the NPCs, but NPCs dont get frustrated. They dont cancel accounts. They most certainly dont lose equipment worth 10 times the ship cost.

Fun? Doing the same thing for the 50th time is very seldom fun. Blowing stuff up is tough :p There need to be more mission types/setups. They need a certain amount of randomness. In a game with such hard penalty for losing it need to be a near 100% win if taken down group by group. There should be a difficulty system (ship class recomended, experience (eg. skill)) inteligent enough to give less agent faction loss for declining missions. Maybe even get a choice of easy/medium/hard (Do you have work - Yes, I have 3 tasks available right now). With apropriate rewards.

That was the beauty of the AO mission system. Not that it was instanced, but the fact that you could decide the difficulty of the mission so presicely. Too bad they ruined it in favour of killing thousands of the same outside monster, or having to spend hundreds of hours online to get phats.

I know some find it tedious, but part of what I consider most fun after defeating a mission is collecting the containers. There is nothing like warping home with a ship totally packed with loot.

Godpool
Posted - 2006.01.02 11:45:00 - [93]
 

I will say that they are getting better in the sense that RMR has offered more challenging missions.

Also the market buys faction tags... I know several people who have cashed in millions and millions of ISK worth of tags, so that makes the missions much more worthwhile.

I think what we really need to see is more randomness...

If you think about the creative people at CCP, there isn't a reason for NOT having 200 different mission templates for L2 L3 L4.

This would pretty much make missioners a really skilled group of people as opposed to people who are jaded from doing the same thing 50 times.

Also if you had 200 individual missions for each level, then it would cut out the cheat pages of walkthroughs, etc.

Apertotes
Posted - 2006.01.02 12:48:00 - [94]
 

i dont like deadspace either. a lot of you have already posted the reasons.

anyway, i do like big tough bosses. why in the world should you be able to defeat any single npc alone? why can he have a better ship than you, or a better tank, or better guns?

so it takes 35 minutes to kill this guy. so what? how much time did it take for him you kill you? did he even manage to do so?

what i think is ridiculous is that we all pretend to be Jet Li and take care of 30 rats alone, and then whine because we found our match and we are not able to kill him.

i dont think it is right that i can kill 3 machariel npcs whith only a tempest and a AF. that is not balanced at all. i am sure i couldnt do it if the 3 machariel werent npcs.

of course, if you take close combat guns, expect the npcs to try to keep you far away. what i find stupid is that they just come close to you like asking for a quick death.

and about all the npcs going after you even without targeting or attacking them... come on, they are mates, they are supposed to help each other. they are supposed to defend something, and kill you on sight. why would the just stand when you are killing their mates only 150 km away? would you do that if someone was attacking a corp mate? "upps, sorry mate, you are 100 km from here, i cant help you..."

what i agree is about these npcs that are inmune to EW. that is stupid. they are flying the same ships we are flying, so they should be able to tank as good as players, but not to be inmune to anything.

Shai 'Hulud
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2006.01.02 12:50:00 - [95]
 

Edited by: Shai ''Hulud on 02/01/2006 12:51:59
I have said this before, but CCP needs to just take missions out of the game if they insist upon taking them in the direction they have over the last couple patches. They continue to raise the difficulty (sometimes to rediculous extremes), while leaving the rewards the same, or even lowered. Their defense for the harder missions is that you are suposed to do them in a grp. I for one find it very easy to get my friends to risk their expensive ships to come help me with a risky mission, for which they gain no faction, and have to trust that I will split the ****ty rewards with them Rolling Eyes. Add to this the horrible faction loss, which eventually ensures that certain parts of EMPIRE will be pretty muchly permanantly cut off (raise a faction from -5.0 .. right) and there really is no reason to do missions. Further, there is no way to tell autopilot not to go to empires that will kill you. So goodbye autopilot in empire without checking every system on your route.

IMO you should be able to decline missions that include high faction loss as often as you want.

A good boycott of the mission system should send the messege nicely in the mean time Wink

Banditten
GreenSwarm
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2006.01.02 15:09:00 - [96]
 

It's so rare that I read these forums and actually agree with a post Smile CCP should overhaul the whole mission system...

-Give a choice between more than one mission offer. Preferably between different types.
-Scale the difficulty of missions better by offering more lvls.
-Have all NPC ships in missions offer bounties.
-Create a better way of splitting rewards and teaming up for missions.
-Send deadspace back to where it came from Shocked


Rod Blaine
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.01.02 15:22:00 - [97]
 

Missions are easily available, have no limit on grindability and no random factor. They take place in safe space (if you want them to) and require little to no intereaciton with other players.

Therefore, they need to be boring, repetitive, underrewarding, and difficult to the point of being annoying.

We wouldn't want players to think combat missions are the core of this game now do we ?

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2006.01.02 15:31:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Rowdy Roddy Blaine
Therefore, they need to be boring, repetitive, underrewarding, and difficult to the point of being annoying.
Hey yeah, let's make more parts of the game boring and annoying, that'll surely drive people to 0.0 ;)

Xaja Diuqil
GalOre Industries
Posted - 2006.01.02 15:40:00 - [99]
 

I know that Deadspace missions suck, but (and I've read most of the posts and don't know if this has been covered) is it possible that by putting you in deadspace you are put onto a different part of the server as you are, in effect, not in normal space. Perhaps DS was done as a lag preventative and then just jazzed up to make things different?

Maybe when these new blade servers are introduced and lag becomes less of a problem they will remove DS.

Another problem is that two years ago there were half the number of players there are today but the same number of levels of agents. The diffence in SP's between a noob and an experienced player is now frightening and therefore there will always be a case of too difficult/hard which in both cases is boring. Maybe the way that the complexes are braded should apply to the agents, maybe each agent could have an easy, medium and hard mission thus increasing the levels to fifteen, maybe certain modules can't be used for certain missions i.e. using True Sansha stuff against True Sansha?

Now that the number of players has more than doubled so have the subscription fees. Employ a few more people to write more missions and give us variation again, instead of a pillow!!!

Mistress Zhantine
Amarr
Reikoku
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2006.01.02 16:02:00 - [100]
 

Edited by: Mistress Zhantine on 02/01/2006 16:03:21
Level 4 Missions are now to the point where with or without sitting researching the forums and web for 1 hour before you go on a mission post RMR (new or old) you are playing russian roulette, even in high skill high mod faction setups. The aggro is unpredictable (without drones) the lag even in unpopulated systems seems heavy and generally the fun has well and truly been drained away. CCP seems to desperately want to take away the solo aspect of the mission game and expects people to go in groups with all the necesary abilities to counter any possible outcome. Thats would be ok if they had put in a GANG REWARD SYSTEM! where pilots using the same agents in the same systems could band together. This would promote in game cooperation and integration and provide an enriched experience to for mission pilots. The only thing I would say regarding this is people should not be forced into this, there should be a choice in mission so the pilots will ALWAYS be able to take on a solo only mission and not 'roll the dice' on their ships and modules for a few million isk. Sad

CCP you are turning mission into Damage control I's (pre RMR) and people without 0.0 access will be very annoyed at having their main source of fun essentially removed from the game.

Shai 'Hulud
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2006.01.02 16:04:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Rod Blaine
Missions are easily available, have no limit on grindability and no random factor. They take place in safe space (if you want them to) and require little to no intereaciton with other players.

Therefore, they need to be boring, repetitive, underrewarding, and difficult to the point of being annoying.

We wouldn't want players to think combat missions are the core of this game now do we ?


Then why include them in the game at all? Rolling Eyes

Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Posted - 2006.01.02 19:31:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Rod Blaine
We wouldn't want players to think combat missions are the core of this game now do we ?


22mil SP .. what is 0.0? Surprised

Blue Wraith
Posted - 2006.01.02 20:11:00 - [103]
 

Edited by: Blue Wraith on 02/01/2006 20:18:16
Edited by: Blue Wraith on 02/01/2006 20:17:43
/signed

FIXES NEEDED:
#1 Complete zone aggro on entry or attack of one group needs to be fixed.
#2 Non-attacked groups long-range aggro'ing drones needs to be fixed.
#3 Bounties need to be unnerfed some.
#4 Loot drops need to be at least more volumnous.

I made about 15 mil (on bounties) in 5 hours soloing Angel Extra, and the loot was mostly crap, but the bad part is there wasn't even much of it... part of the money to be made on those missions is the amount of loot that you can recycle, and that seems to have been nerfed a bit well. Not very profitable, considering I lost 1 ship so far to RMR over-difficulty, and 1 ship to RMR lag/bugginess (petition pending).

I get through deadspace pretty well (except the new super-bugged RMR missions, especially last stage in a series, and including the damsel one), with the only caveat being that deadspace mishes tend to be really long. CCP tried to help some by relocating some crazy gates closer to zone-in (like on Angel Extravaganza), but the npc ups and the missiles nerfs still makes deadspace mishes too long.

I am now skipping all RMR missions until at least #1 above is fixed, so they will at least be _SURVIVABLE_ solo. After I can survive one and complete it successfully, then I will judge if the end reward outweighs the lack of bounties and is worth spending my time with. The old missions still are doable because of the (mostly) separate aggro groups, but I am still guaging for myself whether they are worth the time to do or not. 15 mil and sparse, crappy loot for 5 hours of my life with as much as I time/isk as I have invested in my equipment/skills doesn't look too good right now.

Blue Wraith

Ashareth
Caldari
Disturbed Hoggs
Posted - 2006.01.02 20:34:00 - [104]
 

Yeaahh, missions have no interest.

Ok rule them out of game and then it'll be fun.
Fun to :
- Go in 0.0 without money, in a rookie ship(you can't have anything else, you don't have money, and rating in rookie ship is not doable)
- Have an nearly instant drop in all sell prices(nobody except 0.0 rats and complex hunters will have money, cause there will only be ONE source of isk in this game, the bounty on npc in belts/plexs)
- all new players and the ones that don't want to be cannon fodder for the coprs in 0.0 quitting

There would be a nice place in eve.
PVPers and 0.0 dwellers always forget WHO make them richer than hell, who buy there stuff, who mine the minerals used in their ships, and the money they use.

Missions ARE needed, and need to be balanced.
We don't want an isk printing license, we want to be able to play, make some money, learn some tricks an to use our ships/weapons before, for most of us, go deeper in lawless territory.
And, it's not because YOU think you should not play an mmo alone, that everybody think like that.
Most normal peoples would prefer to play alone for a century in a game like eve to play with people like you....

theRaptor
Caldari
Tactical Operations
Posted - 2006.01.02 20:44:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
[There was a time when I considered level 4 missions fun.


Level 4 and deadspace where added at the same time :P

And the non-deadspace level 4's where pretty boring. But I absolutely loathe the new missions which are 99% deadspace. Stupid bloody system to cover up the fact that the NPC's AI absolutely stinks.

Linia
Gallente
Linia Corp
Posted - 2006.01.02 21:00:00 - [106]
 

Well, now this might shock you all, but I actually LIKE the lvl4 missions. Before RMR Patch I was like able to do 1 or 2 missions in my raven due to missile stuff, then I decided to go for dominix. And now after RMR I can actually do lvl4 missions in it. And to be honest I never had so much fun playing eve ever before Smile
Yes some of them are boring, other completely insanely hard, those, just stay away from. Vengeance mission is kinda fun too, since you might just end up having LOTS against you and thats a nice challenge, which I made every time hehe, and no faction modules on me Razz

Now to sum this up, only thing that is "wrong" with lvl4 might be that there is too few of them? if they added more different onces, im sure people would do more more more level 4 missions again Smile

Apertotes
Posted - 2006.01.02 22:39:00 - [107]
 

Edited by: Apertotes on 02/01/2006 22:40:35
Edited by: Apertotes on 02/01/2006 22:40:08
Originally by: Blue Wraith
Edited by: Blue Wraith on 02/01/2006 20:18:16
Edited by: Blue Wraith on 02/01/2006 20:17:43
/signed

FIXES NEEDED:
#1 Complete zone aggro on entry or attack of one group needs to be fixed.
#2 Non-attacked groups long-range aggro'ing drones needs to be fixed.
#3 Bounties need to be unnerfed some.
#4 Loot drops need to be at least more volumnous.

I made about 15 mil (on bounties) in 5 hours soloing Angel Extra, and the loot was mostly crap, but the bad part is there wasn't even much of it... part of the money to be made on those missions is the amount of loot that you can recycle, and that seems to have been nerfed a bit well. Not very profitable, considering I lost 1 ship so far to RMR over-difficulty, and 1 ship to RMR lag/bugginess (petition pending).

I get through deadspace pretty well (except the new super-bugged RMR missions, especially last stage in a series, and including the damsel one), with the only caveat being that deadspace mishes tend to be really long. CCP tried to help some by relocating some crazy gates closer to zone-in (like on Angel Extravaganza), but the npc ups and the missiles nerfs still makes deadspace mishes too long.

I am now skipping all RMR missions until at least #1 above is fixed, so they will at least be _SURVIVABLE_ solo. After I can survive one and complete it successfully, then I will judge if the end reward outweighs the lack of bounties and is worth spending my time with. The old missions still are doable because of the (mostly) separate aggro groups, but I am still guaging for myself whether they are worth the time to do or not. 15 mil and sparse, crappy loot for 5 hours of my life with as much as I time/isk as I have invested in my equipment/skills doesn't look too good right now.

Blue Wraith


i think numbers 1 and 2 are perfectly fine. 3 and 4, i agree.

about soloing mission, i do not agree. it looks like a bad movie where 1 person can defeat a lot of bad dudes, because they all attack one by one and get knock out within the first punch, but the good guy can stand everything.

why are you all so f*** up that a npc BS can defeat your own BS? even more if they are more than 1...

Bunny Wunny
Gallente
Freelancer Union
Posted - 2006.01.02 23:51:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Apertotes
Edited by: Apertotes on 02/01/2006 22:40:35
Edited by: Apertotes on 02/01/2006 22:40:08
Originally by: Blue Wraith
Edited by: Blue Wraith on 02/01/2006 20:18:16
Edited by: Blue Wraith on 02/01/2006 20:17:43
/signed

FIXES NEEDED:
#1 Complete zone aggro on entry or attack of one group needs to be fixed.
#2 Non-attacked groups long-range aggro'ing drones needs to be fixed.
#3 Bounties need to be unnerfed some.
#4 Loot drops need to be at least more volumnous.

I made about 15 mil (on bounties) in 5 hours soloing Angel Extra, and the loot was mostly crap, but the bad part is there wasn't even much of it... part of the money to be made on those missions is the amount of loot that you can recycle, and that seems to have been nerfed a bit well. Not very profitable, considering I lost 1 ship so far to RMR over-difficulty, and 1 ship to RMR lag/bugginess (petition pending).

I get through deadspace pretty well (except the new super-bugged RMR missions, especially last stage in a series, and including the damsel one), with the only caveat being that deadspace mishes tend to be really long. CCP tried to help some by relocating some crazy gates closer to zone-in (like on Angel Extravaganza), but the npc ups and the missiles nerfs still makes deadspace mishes too long.

I am now skipping all RMR missions until at least #1 above is fixed, so they will at least be _SURVIVABLE_ solo. After I can survive one and complete it successfully, then I will judge if the end reward outweighs the lack of bounties and is worth spending my time with. The old missions still are doable because of the (mostly) separate aggro groups, but I am still guaging for myself whether they are worth the time to do or not. 15 mil and sparse, crappy loot for 5 hours of my life with as much as I time/isk as I have invested in my equipment/skills doesn't look too good right now.

Blue Wraith


i think numbers 1 and 2 are perfectly fine. 3 and 4, i agree.

about soloing mission, i do not agree. it looks like a bad movie where 1 person can defeat a lot of bad dudes, because they all attack one by one and get knock out within the first punch, but the good guy can stand everything.

why are you all so f*** up that a npc BS can defeat your own BS? even more if they are more than 1...



the thing is the lvl 3s are harder now, I don't know about lvl 4s but I've seen some deadly lvl 3s where before I had no issues

sonjastarr
Posted - 2006.01.03 13:07:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Originally by: Rowdy Roddy Blaine
Therefore, they need to be boring, repetitive, underrewarding, and difficult to the point of being annoying.
Hey yeah, let's make more parts of the game boring and annoying, that'll surely drive people to 0.0 ;)


or drive people to another mmog. Sad

Apertotes
Posted - 2006.01.03 14:57:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Bunny Wunny
Originally by: Apertotes
Edited by: Apertotes on 02/01/2006 22:40:35
Edited by: Apertotes on 02/01/2006 22:40:08
Originally by: Blue Wraith
Edited by: Blue Wraith on 02/01/2006 20:18:16
Edited by: Blue Wraith on 02/01/2006 20:17:43
/signed

FIXES NEEDED:
#1 Complete zone aggro on entry or attack of one group needs to be fixed.
#2 Non-attacked groups long-range aggro'ing drones needs to be fixed.
#3 Bounties need to be unnerfed some.
#4 Loot drops need to be at least more volumnous.

I made about 15 mil (on bounties) in 5 hours soloing Angel Extra, and the loot was mostly crap, but the bad part is there wasn't even much of it... part of the money to be made on those missions is the amount of loot that you can recycle, and that seems to have been nerfed a bit well. Not very profitable, considering I lost 1 ship so far to RMR over-difficulty, and 1 ship to RMR lag/bugginess (petition pending).

I get through deadspace pretty well (except the new super-bugged RMR missions, especially last stage in a series, and including the damsel one), with the only caveat being that deadspace mishes tend to be really long. CCP tried to help some by relocating some crazy gates closer to zone-in (like on Angel Extravaganza), but the npc ups and the missiles nerfs still makes deadspace mishes too long.

I am now skipping all RMR missions until at least #1 above is fixed, so they will at least be _SURVIVABLE_ solo. After I can survive one and complete it successfully, then I will judge if the end reward outweighs the lack of bounties and is worth spending my time with. The old missions still are doable because of the (mostly) separate aggro groups, but I am still guaging for myself whether they are worth the time to do or not. 15 mil and sparse, crappy loot for 5 hours of my life with as much as I time/isk as I have invested in my equipment/skills doesn't look too good right now.

Blue Wraith


i think numbers 1 and 2 are perfectly fine. 3 and 4, i agree.

about soloing mission, i do not agree. it looks like a bad movie where 1 person can defeat a lot of bad dudes, because they all attack one by one and get knock out within the first punch, but the good guy can stand everything.

why are you all so f*** up that a npc BS can defeat your own BS? even more if they are more than 1...



the thing is the lvl 3s are harder now, I don't know about lvl 4s but I've seen some deadly lvl 3s where before I had no issues


is that a problem?

GoGo Yubari
Veto.
Posted - 2006.01.04 03:19:00 - [111]
 

Hmm. I have to agree that missions did get a lot more boring with deadspace. I can sort of understand the instancing concept though, but I definately agree that something needs to happen to make PvE more intriguing.

Wolfgang Jager
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Posted - 2006.01.04 04:45:00 - [112]
 

As a month-old newbie I can already see the problems and agree with much of what has been said here, but I'd like to throw in my complaint and suggestion on difficulty.

The complaint is simple - there are at least two completely different groups of players hitting these missions. Those newbies like my self, in their first cruiser (or battleship..etc) with all tech 1 gear..little or no named/faction gear and comparatively low skill points for the ship they are in.

To us, some of these missions are simply deathtraps - they have been geared up so far with hyper aggro and nasty tricks that we are lucky to escape with a ship upon encountering them. Not necessarily because we made a mistake, were incautious or stupid..but just because we were totally unprepared for the levels of instant aggro and damage and don't have all the toys to tank it.

Then you have the alts, restarts and bored dabblers with billions of ISK to toss around and millions of skill points more to play with. They hit this same set of missions with tech2 or faction ships, lots of T2/faction/named modules and skills to use it all at high efficiency.

For them, most of the missions are a complete yawn-fest of wasted time. I've heard one brag about loading nothing but FoF missiles so he could just hit fire! and go get a burger after he warped in. This crowd mostly loves the tougher missions - they are the only ones which are even a challenge to them.

My suggestion - add a toggle for the player (or on the agent somehow) between "regular" and "elite" missions. The regular missions have "normal" difficulty levels...the "elite" missions have higher challenges/risks for same ISK payouts, but more LPs.

mimik
Posted - 2006.01.04 05:02:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: Wolfgang Jager

My suggestion - add a toggle for the player (or on the agent somehow) between "regular" and "elite" missions. The regular missions have "normal" difficulty levels...the "elite" missions have higher challenges/risks for same ISK payouts, but more LPs.



so u mean like having different levels of agents, say 1,2,3 and 4, that give out missions of differing difficulties?

Domina Trix
Amarr
McKNOBBLER DRINKING CLAN
Posted - 2006.01.04 10:36:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: mimik
Originally by: Wolfgang Jager

My suggestion - add a toggle for the player (or on the agent somehow) between "regular" and "elite" missions. The regular missions have "normal" difficulty levels...the "elite" missions have higher challenges/risks for same ISK payouts, but more LPs.



so u mean like having different levels of agents, say 1,2,3 and 4, that give out missions of differing difficulties?


I think he may have meant have Level 1 normal and Level 1 Elite etc.

Other posters have mentioned the Anarchy Online missions system. A similar mission system for EVE would be excellent. In AO you have sliders to customise the types of missions generated, the types of enemies in the missions, and the mission difficulty. In EVE you could have a selection of toggles for your mission. Long/Short range enemies, EW/Non-EW enemies, Deadspace/Normal Space and such like.

That way you can have an easy mission if you wish or a hard mission if you fancy a challenge. For the isk and LP rewards a mission could have a base amount which is modified by which toggle setting you have selected.

Liet Traep
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
IT Alliance
Posted - 2006.01.04 12:30:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: mrg29
i seem to be in the minority, at least of people who post on forums, but i think this anti-DS campaign is a huge mistake.


I've never liked Deadspace Missions. i like MWD's. Fast ships are fun. The frequency of DS missions is insane. You would think Deadspace Phenomena are rare. But it appears to be all over the place. Hunting in 0.0 is more fun, less tedious and more rewarding than missions. I occasionally do missions for a change of pace. But I wouldn't bother with it as a main source of isk. Too much of a bother.

Sorja
11th Division
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2006.01.04 12:53:00 - [116]
 

For the 'you shan't play the game I don't want you to play' (sup Rod Wink), I live in 0.0 and run misisons in 0.0 when there's nothing else going on.

Missions are also my only income, since I can't mine and belt ratting slowly kills me with boredom.

Missions were fine before the first nerf.
Some dudes without a life made too much cash, but the average player just pulled what he needed as cash out of misisons so he could replace his PvP losses.

I meet way too many broke people who can't afford to replace their losses and have to fly tech I crap after some days at war.
Cutting on the players' income isn't the solution to encourage PvP, IMHO.

The first logical step would be to increase dramaticaly the bounties from missions.
I can now hunt Sanshas for hours on end, meet from 1 to 3 BS at each belt and earn around 18 mill per hour in bounties with absolutely zero risk, 1 jump away from a reprocessing plant and 1 jump away from factories, which implies very little downtime.
With some good mods in the loot, that's well over 20 mill/hour.

And that's good, it's what a good miner can earn (at zero risk too, mind you) from 0.0 mining.
Missions should yield the same reward since they can prove very challenging, especially for the pilots who haven't over 15mill skillpoints (something most posters here conveniently forget: the game is hard for many people).

Helen Tiger
The White Wing Cartel
Posted - 2006.01.04 14:04:00 - [117]
 

Edited by: Helen Tiger on 04/01/2006 14:06:24
Originally by: Kuolematon
About deadspaces being "instances" is pretty much true because I asked devs in fanfest about it and they even admited it. They hired guys from FunCom (makers of Anarchy-Online) who made AO's wonderful mission system (yes, it's still ahead of its time!) and they then created deadspace missions what we see today. Nifty, eh? Rolling Eyes
Rolling Eyes


Swell... I quit AO after two years to come to Eve, and now this...

Thankfully, missions weren't the reason I left AO (stupid expansion packs were). You are right the missions system in AO is excellent, in fact I even posted here about it, suggesting CCP took example on it.

Of course, they did, and of course they took the worst possible aspect of AO missions : instancing.

Do you know in some AO dungeons members of a team enter into separate instances ? Then they have to get out and in repeatedly until the whole team is in the same instance.

If this is the same guys CCP hired who developped the AO dungeons, WE'RE IN DEEP DOO DOO.

And Funcom would probably only let its deadbeat coders go to the competition so... I GUESS WE'RE SCREWED. RUN FOR YOUR LIFE.

Why didn't CCP ask those Funcom devs to create nifty AO-style things like :

- The ability to select mission difficulty using a slider

- The ability to "roll" multiple missions and choose the one you find most interesting (you can do that thousands of times in a row in AO. Some 3rd-party tools even automate the process, looking for a specific reward)

- The ability to select your prefered type of enemy (monster NPC's or human NPC's)

- The ability to create TEAM missions, with difficulty, length and rewards proportionate to the number of players in the team.

CCP has Funcom people on payroll, so they don't even have the "lacking skills" excuse : they could really match AO if they wanted to.

Helen

Wolfgang Jager
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Posted - 2006.01.04 17:45:00 - [118]
 

I wouldn't suggest going to a full AO-type slider system, that was a bit needlessly complicated.

What I was suggesting was a 2part system where (as now) the "level" of the agent more or less determines the class of ship you fight. 1 = frigates 2 = some cruisers 3 = some BS etc....

The second component determines the "difficulty" - with a normal (base) setting being all tech 1 ships with limited "gimmicks" and "elite" or any higher setting(s) would include progressively more Tech2/nasty gear and tricks used by the NPCs.

This would create two parallel paths - one easier that the true "newbs" could do most of the time to advance themselves without constant ship loss and a much more dangerous path that veteran players/twinks/someone out for a major challenge could run.

Torze
Legion Of The Void
Posted - 2006.01.04 20:45:00 - [119]
 

While I still like DS missions, I do wonder if they have out served their usefulness. The big reason to me in putting DS missions in was because of those loot thieves in Empire space. There was nothing like doing a kill mission and having some loot thief steal your mission cargo right underneath your combat ships nose ; with no abilty to fight back. With RMR, we now have the ability to strike back.

I would like to see DS missions stay but, maybe put them on something like, Corp agents. Where you would get a mission for your entire corp to do. Mission payouts would go to the corp, while bounties are split between players doing the mission.

Venjenz
Caldari
Doomheim
Posted - 2006.01.04 21:14:00 - [120]
 

Edited by: Venjenz on 04/01/2006 21:21:28
The DS mission is fine, and anyone who played AO should recognize that normal space missions are akin to what the Rubi Ka mission terminals assigned, while the DS mission is more like Shadowlands quests, which were considerably tougher than the RK counterpart in every way, but offered better xp per hour. As an AO player, you knew going into it that the level of mobs you fought in Rubi Ka were a pale reflection of SL mobs, and that tactics would need to shift, as well as what could be efficiently solo'd.

True, the player had the choice to never visit Shadowlands, but the player in this case can refuse the DS mission if they choose, they just pay a penalty. In AO, choosing to walk the "RK forever" path had a penalty as well...less xp per hour. In a game with 220 levels, xp per hour mattered.

I guess I just don't mind it too much when I get handed a really difficult task in a game that might require serious trial and error, as well as incurring penalty. Anyone who played EQ and lost a corpse in the non-summon friendly locales (Charasis, VP, Western Wastes, etc) should recall that one of the things that makes the really tough stuff great is the pucker and PITA factor.

In the end, just refuse if it ain't your cup of tea. Me, I say yes to whatever I am offered, and try to make it work. After thousands of EQ corpse runs, AO reclaim visits, and totally ignorant WoW repair bills and graveyard jaunts, a DS mission to me is standard fare.

IMHO, YMMV.

Wink


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