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Jasmine Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2003.08.18 15:13:00 - [31]
 

Quote:
Some people hide things by not talking at all.

Other's hide by being overly verbose.


Clearly, yes, that statement rings true for much of what goes on here although Jade has been completely honest and forthcoming. If you have a problem with her style of writing then do not read it, that is your choice, your freedom.
To attempt to deny someone a voice goes against all that the Gallente stand for.

Fides Punica
Posted - 2003.08.18 15:16:00 - [32]
 

Quote:
Quote:
Some people hide things by not talking at all.

Other's hide by being overly verbose.


Jade has been completely honest and forthcoming.

*Alyssia s******s*

You are a self admitted spin doctor.

Morkt Drakt
Caldari
Black Omega Security
Posted - 2003.08.18 15:21:00 - [33]
 

Quote:
With particular reference to Pureblind itself; over the past week many of the less-combat orientated corporations and organisations of the VA have been disturbed to learn of the perilous situation encountered by the Servant Sisters of Eve in the Pureblind Region.

This cloistered order has for many generations provided solace and welcome to travellers and fugitives from imperial injustice and outward harm, and have by consequence been afforded nothing but the greatest respect by the VA owner-captains to this date.

Unfortunately this respect is not shared by the enemies of freedom and Venal combined, and over the last few days in particular we have received many distress calls and pleas for aid from the Servant Sisters facing direct attack against their spaceborne assets and unarmed ships alike.

Exactly who is behind these atrocities we are yet to prove, for in the Sister’s own accounts there is little but drifting wreckage and scattered debris to bare witness to the violence


When SOE stand up and announce this themselves via their OFFICIAL representatives then it "happened" and may be believeable... otherwise its pure fantasy.

I challenge you to back these falsehoods up by having the OFFICIAL SoE representative issue them to the Summit.


(OOC: Jade this is PRIME fiction - you cannot subvert the storyline like that anymore than I can say the Caldari Empire has issued KOS orders on Ragnar. It is NOT for players to utilise any prime fiction element in such a direct manner.

This applies as much as to claiming to be the heir to amarr as to claiming any action or statements on behalf of any NPC Corporation or Empire.

Having said that CCP have no statement I can find anywhere on Prime Fiction - I'm emailing Pann to see if we can get a response but I cannot see any other response other for them to say "no you cant use prime fiction".

If CCP are allowing others to write Prime Fiction then I'll just disolve the 4 empires into a big burger franchise and take over the whole galaxy.)

trap
Caldari
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2003.08.18 16:09:00 - [34]
 

Well as you know the Venal Alliance is not limited to its own space. We venture out in search of business. Recent attacks on defenseless VA ships in the pure blind region has called great attention to the area. So VA forces have patrolled the area in search of said violators, and on occasion take in some business when available.

Athule Snanm
Amarr
Rien Ici
Posted - 2003.08.18 16:46:00 - [35]
 

(OOC, apologies to all - has it ever occured to you that Jade is actually lying through her teeth IC and hence not affecting prime fiction?)

j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2003.08.18 16:55:00 - [36]
 

"(OOC, apologies to all - has it ever occured to you that Jade is actually lying through her teeth IC and hence not affecting prime fiction?)"

OOC: like, duh :P was kinda hoping someone calls the bluff just like Morkt did...

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2003.08.18 17:34:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Jade Constantine on 18/08/2003 17:36:01

My dear Morkt, how lovely to see that the rumours of your demise are greatly exaggerated, I imagine we are to understand from this that the new “editor” of MDW is merely a hireling voice box for opinions you wish to express indirectly, one step removed as it were, from the firing line of public debate non?

As for your foolish challenge I think you misunderstand the relationship of Venal and Pure Blind and Sisters of Eve thence thereafter. There are no formal diplomatic or political ties between the free-captains of the VA and the Sisterhood, and no mechanism thence extent for demanding the statement you desire. Perhaps the Sisterhood will respond to your words, perhaps they will not, that is for their authorities and council of religious mysteries to debate and decide.

But what I may (and will) do is offer formal public condemnation of your slander, and do further hereby renounce your own lies made for what ever dark purpose your unwelcome intervention ultimately serves.

Everyday innocent shipping is destroyed within the domain of the Servant Sisters of Eve, every day lives are lost and bodies hurled to the tumbling blackness of space, everyday the faith that sustains this honourable conclave of pure-hearted martyrs in the face of imperial tyranny is tested to the limit and beyond, and yet you are fool enough to claim the screams and pleading for aid upon local comm channels is a mere figment of my imagination?

Morkt, you have hit a new low with this bald attempt to win public infamy for your single-minded cause.

But know well, though your ears are deaf to the plight of the Sisterhood mission ours are not, and the clock is ticking for those who use Pure blind region as a hunting ground for the conquest of innocence and despoilment of simple faith and beauty.

Love and peace (in the ruins)

Adam Edwards
Caldari
Caldari Legion
Posted - 2003.08.18 18:24:00 - [38]
 

I really get tired of you slamming Morkt, Jade. Al he's doing is standing up for the lawful people of the galaxy.

He's has his own opinion, so what?

Atleast he's not the Venal Alliance's b*tch.

Sequin
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2003.08.18 18:24:00 - [39]
 

The Sisters tongues are shaped as snakes, believe not a word they speak, for they are the ones attempting to bring ruin to our lives by opening the damnable gate to hell. They are trying to convince you to fight their own battles Jade, let the Sisters deal with their own crisis'.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2003.08.18 19:05:00 - [40]
 

Adam,

Do be quiet and run along dear chap. If you can't handle a little rough and tumble in verbal debate then I feel truly dreadful for the innocents you pretend to defend in earnest space combat.

This summit forum is about the exchange of views and opinions; and one of the ways we do that is to present our thoughts and passions through the device of rhetorical supposition, dramatic juxtaposition of opposing idealogies, and indeed, earnest exchange of conversational blows via intellectual interchange and verbal sparring.

And for the record I actually have quite a lot of time for Morkt Drak ... but I am less than impressed with the disappearing act and stage management from the shadows routine re the new "revitalised" MDW ... the editorial mouthpiece he now uses is dishonest and will likely fool nobody much.

The truth is important Adam, and for a man who claims to love the truth it is most unfortunate to cloak his views behind a puppet show of mock grotesquery and flippant nonsense.
Quote:

Atleast he's not the Venal Alliance's b*tch.

Do grow up my dear.

Love and peace



Morkt Drakt
Caldari
Black Omega Security
Posted - 2003.08.18 19:36:00 - [41]
 

Quote:
My dear Morkt, how lovely to see that the rumours of your demise are greatly exaggerated, I imagine we are to understand from this that the new “editor” of MDW is merely a hireling voice box for opinions you wish to express indirectly, one step removed as it were, from the firing line of public debate non?

Quote:

And for the record I actually have quite a lot of time for Morkt Drak ... but I am less than impressed with the disappearing act and stage management from the shadows routine re the new "revitalised" MDW ... the editorial mouthpiece he now uses is dishonest and will likely fool nobody much.




Erm.. wrong, nope and nope.

My travels recently are a matter of public record... and whilst I'm on that subject.. I'm still not "back" nor have i "not left". Things will be come clearer over time, or not.

As for "The ED'" - obviously I know who he is, I did give him 1 billion ISK after all, what he does with it though is up to him. It should need not be said that I looked for someone to take over MDW who would pursue truth and stand up for the law abiding citizen of EVE.

(That he's a misbegotten son of a *****, ugly beyond belief and a veritable slob of the nth degree is beside the point... he's good at his job... though the proof shall be in the reading.)

The Editor and MDW are their own entity I'm afraid and you'll have to deal with him. (Should that occur over the dinner table I suggest you take either waterproof clothing or a disposable dress.)Razz

Myself and BBBB severed all ties with MDW so that we were, erm, how shall we say it "free to pursue another path." As hinted at earlier - this may become clearer with time.

Sorry to be so mysterious but my destiny lies in another's hands.


Meanwhile, regarding Pure-Blind, I can only suggest that although the VA have a penchant for attracting trouble, inviting it to dinner may be totally irresponsible.

Crowley
Gallente
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.08.19 05:47:00 - [42]
 

Jade Constantine:
Quote:
Danton Marcellus:
Quote:
Our recon patrol got shot down without any warning, are we due better treatment?



It seems unlikely I must admit. Since you have made public your position of not recognising Venal territorial claims it is policy of Venal defense forces to consider incursions by your ships hostile acts in and of themselves. As such its entirely within the purview of owner-captains of VA to destroy your vessels pre-emptively.

Love and peace

I find this statement laughable.

First of all Miss Constantine, you yourself claim that it is up to each "owner-captain" to asses each encounter and deal with it as he/she sees fit.

Second, you have yet to deny that some (if not many) of your Alliance's "owner-captains" typically choose to shoot first and ask questions to the ship debris later.

So I ask you: how is "updating" your KOS list to include Mister Marcellus' corporation make things any different than they were before Nebula Rasa Holdings and its members were added?

Frankly, I see no difference. You may as well say "We're going to shoot you and when you complain about it, we'll then officially shoot you."

If the Venal Alliance wants recognition and respect, I advise that its CEOs immediately pull some of the more...ah, reckless members back into line. Additionally, ceasing pirating as a method of income also helps, otherwise you're nothing more than a pirate alliance, which will do nothing to get the rest of the Galaxy to acknowledge your "claim" on Venal.

As it stands the lot of you are nothing more than a group of pirates who have agreed to a Region wide cease-fire on each other, while giving yourselves an official title. Small wonder no one takes it seriously when a group of people call themselves an "Alliance" anymore; the word is far too overused and abused by sad-sacks such as yourselves.

Klydor
Minmatar
Posted - 2003.08.19 12:31:00 - [43]
 

Crowley: Ignoring the legalities of a kos list, I would imagine that pilots on the list will be killed no matter which area of space they're found in, they may even be activly hunted by any members of the venal alliance.

Those not on the kos list would probably only be killed for entering venal territory. Although some of the "free willed" captains, as Jade mentions, may not simply stick to venal space.

I for one plan on keeping my distance from the venal and stain alliance.

Maud Dib
Caldari
The Bleeding Heart Cult
Posted - 2003.08.19 12:58:00 - [44]
 

Good gentles wisdom would perhaps suggest that you assume you are KOS to any member of the Venal alliance anywhere you encounter them. They are becoming just another brand of tyranny masked by a lovely face. I am a simple merchant but surely there are methods which could be used to contain them in their very growing grab for power. A constant mining of the exits of Venal? A trade embargo on corporations living or trading in Venal? Always keep in mind alliance is just another word for thieves.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2003.08.19 13:01:00 - [45]
 

Monsieur Crowley,

Re the first “that owner-captains assess situation on point and respond according to overall alliance policy and specific discernment” this is fact.

Re the second “that shoot first operates pre-emptively with some captains” this also is fact, and I will not offer a false denial.

There are certain categories of encounter that will trigger pre-emptive destruction of a ship even to vessels without KOS (Kill on sight) status, but common sense must be the guide here. (Use of massive gang warp, MWD speed, non-responsive hails etc)

And to the difference between KOS and “unknown”

As monsieur Klydor wisely notes, there is quite a difference; an unknown ship will ordinarily be challenged via active communications; references may be checked, etc etc. Unknown ships may be charged a toll for trespass, or then again they may simply be warned and sent on their way towards the border.

KOS ships will be actively destroyed without communications being established, since they are declared hostile by corporate relations and stated intention.

There are many ancillary differences in response paradigm besides that I will not share for reasons of operational security.

But a simple rule of thumb;

If you are “unknown” to the VA and trespass our territory there is good chance that you will keep your ship if you are prepared to shut down engines and negotiate when cornered.

If you are KOS to VA and trespass our territory then we will do all in our power to ensure that you go home in a pod (or in the case of local comms impropriety or repeated hostility) wake up in a resleeving centre at a station of your convenience.

Love and peace

Endyl
Radio Free Albemuth
Posted - 2003.08.19 13:09:00 - [46]
 

I think we have here an interessing problem, and what is going on may be a nice school case for future allegiances.

Can a eagle and a dragon sleep in the same bed ?

On one side, you got a handfull of corps who want to pursue honest business, political relations with neighbor corps, and still care to be active on the public scene with a good image.

On the other side, you have some well known pirate corporations, that pursue what they consider normal activity, and keep going on with their pirating business as normal.

What is very interessing, is both of those sides, even if the phylosophies seem incompatible, Venal alliance united them under one single flag.

Things may adapt for the best in the future, that's what I hope for all of them, but what I see today, is Jade in the bad position of a spokeperson forced to explain activities that her own phylosophy would not allow.

We see lots of possibles paths that the future may take, it's impossible today to even make a supposition.

But whatever will happen, will be a very interessing outcome, but if they succeed in this direction, lot of us will learn a lot on the methods of "how to dance with the devil".

In the meantime, keep yourself safe.


Endyl
Editor
Rhipidon Bureau

Miso
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.08.19 13:10:00 - [47]
 

Miss Jade;

Perhaps it would be helpful if the Venal Alliance could produce a list of its KOS chars and corps and a list of ones it considers friendly ones...Very Happy

Javie Ve'Toca
Posted - 2003.08.19 14:27:00 - [48]
 

So if VA is protecting it's boarders, why don't you only kill Lowsec players or known pirate corps, right now the Venal Alliance see a Lonely Bestower from a trading corp as a threat.
And how come you can pass through Ewok if you pay Toll! So, a ship who pays toll dis not a threat to Venal? This all sounds like pure piracy too me and TTI is backing it up!

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2003.08.19 14:45:00 - [49]
 

It is pure piracy ... I thought I'd made that perfectly clear and yes, obviously, since Taggart are full members of the VA they are supporting the actions of their allies.

To reiterate; VA considers privateering, commerce-raiding, border blockades and misc. hold ups an important revenue stream.

All I've done milady is explain the methodology ... I've absolutely no intention of arguing the ethics.

From the perspective of the innocent trader the VA are lawless criminals doubtless.

From the perspective of the owner captains the VA is a valiant band of freedom fighters forging and indepedent state.

Only history will rightly decide the dominant truth relayed to the future.

Love and peace

Chee
Minmatar
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2003.08.19 14:51:00 - [50]
 

came across some VA guys this afternoon, they where gate camping, started shooting at me. Then they say pay 500k to pass, while I was actually on my way out.. wheres the logic in that?? well they didnt wait for an answer, and I got podkilled before I could type anything at all. For as far as I know Hosokawa has no relations whatsoever with VA. Thats alot of bs ur talking here. Venal Alliance is a pirate alliance, simple

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2003.08.19 14:57:00 - [51]
 

I suggest you re-read the statements already made here and elsewhere on the matter. Nothing you have just said contradicts anything already stated. Deconstructing your commentary would therefore be nothing more than an act of cruelty.

Love and peace

Fides Punica
Posted - 2003.08.19 15:24:00 - [52]
 

Quote:
I suggest you re-read the statements already made here and elsewhere on the matter. Nothing you have just said contradicts anything already stated. Deconstructing your commentary would therefore be nothing more than an act of cruelty.

Love and peace



Up until about 20 minutes ago, you were saying that VA was not pirating, and that you were protecting SOE, also that it was individuals pirating, not the alliance, and a plethora of other reasons why VA wasnt pirating.

THen you change your stance completely, make snide remarks at people who have NO IDEA you just did a 360 turn on everything you've been saying the last few weeks.


Grow up you verbose, hypocritical mercenary.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2003.08.19 16:00:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Jade Constantine on 19/08/2003 16:04:18

Alyssia Vendred, I trust AF Holdings doesn’t employ you in a position where interpreting the news is a vital task?

My statements in regard to VA activities have remained consistent since the opening Press Release (which may be studied here)

Press Release on Behalf of the Venal Alliance

A notable section being;

“… but still on the question of piracy, yes, many of the corporations of Venal do engage in non-consensual armed trade. Many famous rogues and brigands make home and common cause with the free populous of the Venal Region, and many the trader and starship captain who has paid a heavy price for eluding border patrols and straying too close to the starhawks of the Venal irregular space navy.

To these accusations and indeed, factual evidence, the Venal Alliance makes no demurral, and indeed states proudly that the policy will continue for so long as Venal needs to arm its own military to protect the region from aggression within and without this dangerous region of space. For the reality is simple; in empire space the toiling billions of ordinary tax-payers tithe a bounty from their labour to equip the concord and imperial navies for territorial defence and enforcement.”


I have never denied that the VA operates pirates, privateers, commerce-raiders, blockades and most other forms of non-consensual armed trade as a means to sustain a reliable income and source of military hardware. This fact is however an entirely separate issue from the Pureblind/Sister of Eve situation. (A distinction I would have thought entirely plain from my initial response to the poster of this thread.)

I have made no change of stance on this issue, and have certainly never descended to the level of puerile name calling that oftimes passes for debate amongst certain sections of the galactic community.

Verbose … yes
Hypocritical … never
Mercenary … always


Do your research more carefully my dear if you wish to be taken seriously.

Love and peace.


Crowley
Gallente
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.08.19 16:14:00 - [54]
 

Miss Constantine: I see the point Mister Klydor has made. It makes sense.

However, I still find the territorial claims of the Venal Alliance to be ridiculous. No one will ever recognize you or your alliance's claim until your organization ceases its reliance upon privateering as a source of income.

That, Miss Constantine, is the difference between a civil government and a loitering group of rabid outlaws. Prove that your group can be honorable, and you will have the support of almost the entire Galaxy. Otherwise... well, enjoy what you have while you have it.

Viceroy
Posted - 2003.08.19 16:19:00 - [55]
 

Quote:
So if VA is protecting it's boarders, why don't you only kill Lowsec players or known pirate corps, right now the Venal Alliance see a Lonely Bestower from a trading corp as a threat.
And how come you can pass through Ewok if you pay Toll! So, a ship who pays toll dis not a threat to Venal? This all sounds like pure piracy too me and TTI is backing it up!



Security Status means nothing in Venal. Concord has no power here, and we do not submit to its dictatorship. The blockades set up by alliance members are for profit, not to defend Venal. If wished to defend Venal we would blockade closer to it. A Bestower is no threat to Venal, but it is a trespasser. Trespassers will be shot! Survivers will be shot again!

Viceroy
Posted - 2003.08.19 16:25:00 - [56]
 

Quote:
came across some VA guys this afternoon, they where gate camping, started shooting at me. Then they say pay 500k to pass, while I was actually on my way out.. wheres the logic in that?? well they didnt wait for an answer, and I got podkilled before I could type anything at all. For as far as I know Hosokawa has no relations whatsoever with VA. Thats alot of bs ur talking here. Venal Alliance is a pirate alliance, simple


You were in Venal. That is a very good reason to podkill you. Doesnt matter if you were on your way out, you were in Venal Space. We dont really care about Hosokawa Schmosokawa, if you're not on the list you're a target. We dont have a Hostiles list, we have a friendlies list. if you're not a friendly you're a hostile. Very simple. To avoid further pain stay away from Venal.

Fides Punica
Posted - 2003.08.19 16:35:00 - [57]
 

Quote:
But still on the question of piracy, yes, many of the corporations of Venal do engage in non-consensual armed trade. Many famous rogues and brigands make home and common cause with the free populous of the Venal Region, and many the trader and starship captain who has paid a heavy price for eluding border patrols and straying too close to the starhawks of the Venal irregular space navy.

To these accusations and indeed, factual evidence, the Venal Alliance makes no demurral, and indeed states proudly that the policy will continue for so long as Venal needs to arm its own military to protect the region from aggression within and without this dangerous region of space.

First you say "many", not all.

Then you go on to say that it's only in defence of the Venal region.

I could list many other contradictions, but why bother when it is so obvious.

You repeatedly draw TTI & Venal as freedom fighters in Venal, fighting the opressive regime of Concord et al, and next post it is the opposite, with Venal being free spirits having fun pirating.

That m'dear is hypocrisy.

j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2003.08.19 16:54:00 - [58]
 

"The blockades set up by alliance members are for profit, not to defend Venal. If wished to defend Venal we would blockade closer to it. A Bestower is no threat to Venal, but it is a trespasser. Trespassers will be shot! Survivers will be shot again!"

... Uhh, you didn't mean to say 'alliance members', but rather 'SI', non?.. I mean, seeing how Mr.Necrona of TTi (also the alliance member after all) rambles madly something to much opposite effect in another place... :s (and even that was, if i might notice, already subdued in admirable manner by Mr.Nimitz)

Riddari
VIT
Posted - 2003.08.19 16:57:00 - [59]
 

A forked tongue hissing. Or simply an over-eager lackey who has a very big dictionary and too much time in her cubicle in a forgotten station in Venal.

Absolute drivel.

Crowley
Gallente
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.08.19 16:59:00 - [60]
 

Quote:
A forked tongue hissing. Or simply an over-eager lackey who has a very big dictionary and too much time in her cubicle in a forgotten station in Venal.

Absolute drivel.
I concur!


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