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frstkor13
Posted - 2003.08.15 00:37:00 - [1]
 

cruiser guns that take 12 cap per shot, and fit with 280 power, should not do mroe damage than 425 rails.

actually, let me put it simply.

the very, very best 250mm rail should be on par with the absolute worst 425rail. and that's being polite.

the only thing the 425mm rail I has on the 250mm prototypes is range.

250mm proto's do more damage, use less cap, have better tracking.

LittleFerret
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2003.08.15 01:08:00 - [2]
 

have you taken into account that large ammo does twice more damage then med ammo?

frstkor13
Posted - 2003.08.15 01:17:00 - [3]
 

yes.

Dragon Emperor
Amarr
Dark Design
Posted - 2003.08.15 02:23:00 - [4]
 

425 dmg = 2.5x, 250 proto = 3x, large ammo dmg = 2x medium ammo, obviously 425 > 250 proto, but remember since you know 425 has worse tracking, DON'T USE IT WHEN TARGET IS TOO CLOSE.

Aronis Contar
Caldari
Independent Manufacturers
Posted - 2003.08.15 02:44:00 - [5]
 

You forgot to count in the RoF. Sure, the 425mm does more damage per shot, but also has a much slower refire rate.

Ciao, Aronis!

frstkor13
Posted - 2003.08.15 02:58:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: frstkor13 on 15/08/2003 02:59:49
no. not obviously you dolt. let me explain some things.

i hate having to spell crap out for people who don't know what they are talking about, but i would probably have to explain this to the devs too, so here goes.

with the following skills:

large hybrid turret lvl 4
medium hybrid turret lvl 4
surgical strike lvl 4
rapid fire lvl 3

with the following modifiers fitted:

1 x linear flux stab I (1.084 x, 9% speed bonus)
1 x insulated stab array I (1.077 x, 7.25% speed bonus)
2 x guass field balancer I(1.091 x, 9.75% speed bonus)

250mm prototype: 123.24(which comes from a dmg of 5.602 x 22(anti m)) every 3.2 sec

425mm rail I: 188.32(which comes from a dmg of 4.28 x 44(anti l)) every 4.84 sec

250mm proto in 15 sec does avg dmg of: 576.763
425mm rail in 15 sec does avg dmg of: 581.908

this means, per second, the 250mm proto does 38.45 dmg, and the 425mm rail I does 38.79.

HELLO. THE MIGHTY BATTLESHIP RAILGUN, IS A WHOPPING .8% STRONGER THAN THE 250MM PROTOTYPE.

How about, ****ing no.

This is all beside the fact that with controlled burst lvl 4, the 425 takes 30.4 energy to fire, and the 250mm proto takes 12. With the math done it evens out to 6.28 energy per sec use for the 425, and the 250 proto takes 3.75 energy per sec.

So, lets sum it up.

For about 13 times more powergrid usage, twice as much cap, twice as much energy per shot, you get a gun that does .8% more damage. You get worse tracking to boot. The only bonus to the 425 rail is its 25% more range.

So there you have it.

I repeat:

The best loot 250mm rail, should be outclassed by the worst piece of **** 425 rail by at least 7%

The higher the skills and the better the damage modifiers, the more of a split you should see between the guns, not the less.

ANY QUESTIONS?

and also, ccp, for any more balancing, would you please just come to me. stop reading the avg ******ed forum boy who has no idea what they are talking about.

thanks.

Dragon Emperor
Amarr
Dark Design
Posted - 2003.08.15 03:30:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Dragon Emperor on 15/08/2003 03:30:10
Quote:
250mm proto's do more damage, use less cap, have better tracking.

250 proto do more dmg than 425
Quote:
For about 13 times more powergrid usage, twice as much cap, twice as much energy per shot, you get a gun that does .8% more damage. You get worse tracking to boot. The only bonus to the 425 rail is its 25% more range.

250 proto do less dmg than 425
Quote:
and also, ccp, for any more balancing, would you please just come to me. stop reading the avg ******ed forum boy who has no idea what they are talking about.

who's ******ed again?Laughing
Yes, large weapon need balance, however there's no 250>425 thing, you are compareing 250 proto to 425 market bought rail. and even that, still not 250>425. nobody said there's no unbalance thing, however from your language and your very own words, you, frstkor13, are ******ed forum boy.Cool

Digital Sin
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2003.08.15 03:35:00 - [8]
 

425s need to do a lot more damage.... i have large hybrid at 2, surgical strike 3 (around 3x mod on a 425mm railgun) using uranium ammo i hit for 80-110. i did that on a 250 rail.... and it tracked a lot better.

ga'ia
Caldari
Posted - 2003.08.15 03:49:00 - [9]
 


Dragon Emperor
Amarr
Dark Design
Posted - 2003.08.15 03:50:00 - [10]
 

yes, all large weapon need balance vs medium weapon, but the original poster, almighty frstkor13 said 250 > 425, I didn't agree with him, then of course the almighty start flaming war.
base stat: 425 2.5x per 9 sec, 250 proto 3x per 6sec, large ammo = 2x medium ammo dmg, so
425 : 250 = 5/9 : 3/6 = 10:9, yes, it's not that big, but since almighty said 9>10, then he must be right.

Revolution
Amarr
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2003.08.15 03:58:00 - [11]
 

do the world a favour and end it now pls.

Darth Maul
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2003.08.15 04:10:00 - [12]
 

large weapons suck. For the fitting, skill point and purchase cost they should blow mediums away in overall performance, but they don't.

frstkor13
Posted - 2003.08.15 04:48:00 - [13]
 

dragon, taking off mods puts 250 ahead.

just fyi.

feel free to go ahead and die now, you stupid eve newbie forum idiot. fin.

frstkor13
Posted - 2003.08.15 04:49:00 - [14]
 

and note that i said mods, not skills.

Dragon Emperor
Amarr
Dark Design
Posted - 2003.08.15 04:53:00 - [15]
 

call people noob, call people idiot, do what ever you want, Almighty is always right. finRolling Eyes

frstkor13
Posted - 2003.08.15 04:55:00 - [16]
 

sure makes me feel better.

Jash Illian
Minmatar
Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.
Posted - 2003.08.15 05:04:00 - [17]
 

Quote:
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=25536


I don't think they got it...

Quothe TomB
Quote:

* Low end turrets need to be upped, I know they are worse than the best turrets of the size below.


frstkor13
Posted - 2003.08.15 05:14:00 - [18]
 

i cannot read all of the posts, on all of the forums, on this board.

Jim Raynor
Caldari
Bad Kitty Inc.
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2003.08.15 06:37:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Jim Raynor on 15/08/2003 06:38:50
Lower the ROF on Large guns, they will suddenly become a lot better. =P

Give the 425mm Railgun a ROF of 7 seconds instead of 9. I think that would be a pretty huge improvement.

Revolution
Amarr
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2003.08.15 08:24:00 - [20]
 

I agree, cutting a few seconds of the rof of large hybrids and mabye a few more off large projectiles, will make them a lot more worthwhile.

Jim Raynor
Caldari
Bad Kitty Inc.
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2003.08.15 08:30:00 - [21]
 

Perhaps large ammo should have a higher damage values.. perhaps 25% more across the board.

Large guns should do way more than medium guns.

SkyLeach
Critical Mass Enterprises
Posted - 2003.08.15 08:36:00 - [22]
 

frstkor, your toaly right and i have been saying the same thing about several battleship class guns for some time now, before people where using these guns in retail, hoping CCP would sort them out. but no...

sutty
Amarr
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2003.08.15 09:55:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: sutty on 15/08/2003 10:04:42
tachyons :D

Drutort
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2003.08.15 09:58:00 - [24]
 

it is ******ed that a MED can come close or better then a LARGE... its funny because it takes so much more for the L then the MED and what do you get? quite the **** i might say.

it doesnt matter that maybe some day the L guns that might drop from some pirates whenver Battleship pirates show up in the game... the point is that M should not be anywere close to L


it is supposed to be a next step up...Shocked

Amorex
Amarr
Macabre Votum
Posted - 2003.08.15 10:00:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Amorex on 15/08/2003 10:02:59

You just compear banana with apple.
If you compearing Gaussguns then be kind and take Gaussgun.
Here is a math for you kids.
425 Proto vs 250 Proto
Dmg 3x Dmg 3x
RoF 9 RoF 6
Dmg/s 0.33 Dmg/s 0.25
132% 100%
425 Stand. vs 250 Stand.
Dmg 2.5x Dmg 2.5x
RoF 9 RoF 6
Dmg/s 0.27 Dmg/s 0.2
135% 100%

As you can see there is no 8% impruvement.

sutty
Amarr
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2003.08.15 10:05:00 - [26]
 

we dont have 425 proto's ?

Ackath
Minmatar
FinFleet
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2003.08.15 10:30:00 - [27]
 

No. But we should Very Happy

Ruulex DeMors
Caldari
HYDR4
Posted - 2003.08.15 10:49:00 - [28]
 

What's the price of the 250 Proto's now? The 425 Rails are 2 Mil each.

Quiz
Caldari
Cirrius Technologies
Posted - 2003.08.15 11:17:00 - [29]
 

I hear they go for 10 million... makes me laugh. I have 8 of them and still not selling. Smile

frstkor13
Posted - 2003.08.15 11:18:00 - [30]
 

amorex if you are really trying to say that a 250mm proto should be able to do as much damage as a gun that takes 13 times more power, twice as much cpu, and twice as much cap, that only fits ona battleship, then i think you should stop playing eve.

my solution would be to lower rof by 8% and increase large charges dmg by 8%, and decrease the tracking speed of large by 8% more.


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