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Akira2501
Posted - 2006.10.17 01:28:00 - [331]
 

Of the ideas presented here my favorite is custom branding and user-generated “named” items.

My concept for this is similar to the skill system. I’ll use an example to make my idea easier to follow:

First you buy a generic BPO for a Missile Launcher
(“Genaric” BPOs would be new items)
The BPO has the following “skills” included for research specific to this BPO:
Power grid usage
CPU usage
Capacity
Volume
Rate of Fire
Charge Rate

The BPO would also have the normal manufacturing options such as material research.
The default levels would be less capable and less efficient than the Standard Missile Launcher 1 and more expansive to make.

Once the BPO is loaded in a lab training begins in just like the current learning system with time equaling SP or Engineering Points in this case. Points improve each of the attributes as you choose.

So the BPO research becomes more that just trying to build a cheaper item. It’s about creating your own custom brand. Build a brand of quality, a brand of efficacy, a special use brand or just an ultra cheap disposable item.

PtolemaiosPlato Solomon
Gallente
Brave New World
Posted - 2006.10.21 03:56:00 - [332]
 

Edited by: PtolemaiosPlato Solomon on 21/10/2006 04:10:49
Up to now, everything in EVE is pretty much the same. Means, each item is like its many millions brothers and sisters.

I think, the Next-Gen research should become the big difference: it should enable UNIQUE new items or UNIQUE item changes. This could be done with random generators for the many possible attributes.

The researcher starts some basic research, and then, somewhen one time or some times) he gets a question if (s)he wants to direct the research to the one or other direction. Sometimes, only a few new directions are possible, sometimes a lot of new directions. As said, Next-Gen brings exciting irregularity into the game.

The researcher can freely decide to stop the research, and sees the final new invention. Or he decides to let it go on. The longer, the more interesting the attributes of the new item (s)he invents. Could be, it is a structure. Could be, it is a small ship. Could be, as well, it is a new lifeform usable for something, or a new device for a ship or structure.

Each item has a chance due the random generators to be unique, theoretically. And it can be named.

The basic direction can be influenced up to a certain bit, by adding one or more existing items (regular or unique) at the begin or during the research to it (not a must). That could be like a blending of attributes, also random-generated. Sometimes that blending could be in vain (recognized only at the end), often it has a small influence, a very few times it has a big influence. The item added is lost for further use by the player as it is being disassembled into its parts during the research. It is possible to add all kinds of items to it: living things, items, ships, structures.

Blend a shuttle with a battleship, or an attribute-enhancing implant with a drone! Blend DNA with mariners (Clone Wars?) or with lifestock. Blend a POS tower with some insignia or tags, or blend a POS research lab with some deployable container. Blend a drone with a giant mining barge, and that result again with something else!

Some results are just funny, weird, strange, maybe unusable. But many products are usable or, in rare cases, EXTREMELY useful!

The idea of irregularity would make this Next-Gen research to something extremely interesting and unpredictable! Honestly, I would LOVE it! Regular science for those players who like that, irregular and unpredictable science for those who like that! And if I read the other postings here, it seems I am right!

Best greetings,

Sven

PtolemaiosPlato Solomon
Gallente
Brave New World
Posted - 2006.10.21 14:07:00 - [333]
 

Edited by: PtolemaiosPlato Solomon on 28/10/2006 21:28:58
Some more ideas in addition to my previous posting (just the posting before this one):

1.
An ability to assign one or more different scientists to the research. Not speeding up the research, and also not really needed, but influencing it. There would be hundreds or millions of individual scientists in EVE: the Freak Scientist, the Crazy Scientist, The Eremite Scientist, The Desperate Scientist, The Hateful Scientist, The Apocalyptical Scientist, etc.. They would be similar to tourists, mariners, and so. Can be found on the market, on escrow, or in some environments (planets, Lonely Walkers, etc.). See my posting for new environments here:
My New Environments Posting

2.
An ability to imprison a player if I destroyed his ship for taking his DNA (and maybe some of his skills up to a certain extend). That player's DNA could also be blended with the research! Imagine the terrible fun if a player encounters himself (a cloned but will-les zombie) fighting against him... Or a drone which thinks it is this player and got some of his/her attributes...
See my Imprison Posting here!

Special greetings and wishes to the CCP team.

dennyreborn
Posted - 2006.10.21 18:02:00 - [334]
 

allow researching of BPO's with out a agent.
make it work soemthing like this. say you want to research a night hawk.
you would need a unmodifed ferox BPO.
also you will need caldari star ship einginerring 5, all level 5 skills needed to fly a nighthawk.
here is the kicker have the research attempt have a certain % age to pass or fail. if you fail you not only lose the ferox BPO but have a chance to lose one of the level 5 skills you needed.

this advancement is 2 birds with one stone.
1. it makes BPO's more widely avaialable.
2. as higher SP poeple risk SP to make a tech II BPO's (and lose SP)
it will allow lower SP poeple to catch up.
with out the higher SP people whineing about they should have 20mil more SP then anyone since they are old or something.



GuruJ
Gallente
Lynx Frontier Inc.
Posted - 2006.10.23 00:05:00 - [335]
 

Three Bright Ideas

1. Triple the number of T2 BPO's in the lotteries.

2. Invention skills should be equal to Research Lab Op so those who have invested skill time in the hopes of a BPO can still be rewared.

3. Introduce lotteries for T2 BPC's in runs of 10-100.

All of these will make it fair to those who have already invested skills and research time (100% wasted so far).

70+% of all the T2 BPO's in owned by 1% of the players. My "BRIGHT IDEAS" will allow everyone rewards for their efforts while still giving out thoe Leet T2 Cash Machines.

(If you put out 4 more Hulk BPO's and allow 3 rewards of 10 run BPC's in the lottery you won't crash the Hulk market and more people can get rich!)

(PS: notice the dead BOB in my Sig)

ShadowHawk
Gallente
Final Horizon
Posted - 2006.10.28 12:55:00 - [336]
 

ok... this is a suggestion on how to make ship customization more interesting.

In the current system, you have ships with fixed stats, module with stats that vary slightly, and the BPO system that produces always identical items. This leads to a system that produces very predictable outcomes. Often, when you see a ship, you kinda know what to expect and what the ship fittings might be...

I had great hopes for the new rigs that are coming with Kali, but it looks like it's just going to be another type of slot that again takes modules derived from a fixed system.

So here is my suggestion... create a research system that allows you to create rigs that can have any combination of properties... they can have one, two maybe even three properties and each of those has a chance to be positive or negative... if you have played the Diablo II expansion, the best comparison would be to socketed items fitted with magical jewels. Rigs that you add to your ship are added permanently and are lost if the ship gets destroyed. That means you have to think for a bit before you put a rig into your ship if that is really where you want your ship setup to go. I would even go to the point that you can't repackage a rigged ship anymore.

Now for the way on how to create those rigs... next to the materials harvested from ship wrecks, you can add other items to the process to skew your chances on what kind of item you get. Say you're adding an afterburner to the process, your chances of getting a speed related rig are a tad larger. The quality of the items used as well as the skill of the character creating the rig affects the quality of the properties the created rig receives. To the most part it is a random process though... every rig you create has at least one property, and most of the time that property is positive. It can have to or even three properties, with each drastically diminishing chances of being present. Also, the more properties a rig has, the higher is the chance that one or even two of them are negative.

The properties a rig can receive should be a very wide spectrum... even with the tiny tiny chance of creating a rig that adds an additional slot to the ship. More common properties would be speed, armor, shield, energy, electronics or drone related... the possibilities are endless... it could even include properties that boost a certain skill of the pilot by one level...

Now before people come jumping at me with 'adding a slot to a ship will create overpowered ship setups', first of all, a rig with such a property would be vary rare, hence expensive, and if the ship gets destroyed, the rig will disapear again. Also, it won't be possible to boost a ship past the 8 slots per low/med/high that the UI has as it's limit and the number of rigs you can fit on a ship is very limited... the current system in Kali shows 2-3 rig slots, and I believe that would be more than adequate...

The benefit of such a system is that we are now able to create ships that are much more diverse than what we currently have. It would also give those among us who like research, finally something that could be called that.

If balanced right, this will add a lot of depth to the game and to ship setups. Combat pilots will have more fun because each ship they encounter can bring some unexpected surprised, research characters finally have something to research on, and trading characters have items that now have a unique property and the demand for that property can drive the price compared to the current system where price is the only distinction you can have from your competitors when you sell an item.

Well, I hope you guys like my idea (specially if you're working for CCP)... and I look forward to hearing your thoughts on it... now if you don't like it... let me know why, and try not to flame too hard :)

Happy researching everyone...

Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Posted - 2006.10.30 15:13:00 - [337]
 

Edited by: Vyktor Abyss on 08/11/2006 12:37:19
Science Ships ♣ (apologies for any repetition)

I propose that NextGen research be conducted on corporate science ships of all shapes and sizes!

My proposal is that you have a science ship, and rather than visit your R&D agent, you physically go and employ him and his research team by taking him aboard your science ship. Perhaps you take along a couple of tech 1 or tech 2 Blueprints too!

I'd then love to see him accumulate RPs based on some scientifically interesting locations (& missions) you can get him to - For example:

- He might want to take a power reading from 5km from the Eve Gate
- Take a stellar core sample from the star in Cut-0v
- Maybe he needs to take himself out in a science drone for a spin around the rings of Saturn
- Perhaps you can triple his current RPs by using your archeology skills to find the a Ancient factory of the Sleepers - located somewhere in 'A Shattered planet deadspace' (See my last post in Tactical Environments please!)

The key point is that you have to take him to these places and get involved with his scientific research getting him closer to completion (A % indicator maybe?). Something lacking with current science...It's not a full time profession.

Now - The rewards for all this:

- I love the idea of getting surprised by what your research agent achieves. I think the reward should be unknown until the research is complete.
- I'm not talking tech 3 BPOs as rewards since rich people easily get monopolies - so I'd rather see a something 'Branded' and as has been covered previously...
- My branding example: The agent could give you a limited run Tech 3 BPC - 100 run ABVSS corporation mining laser - An adaptable mining laser, less efficient than most (like their CEO), that can also be fired aggressively in combat for instant hull damage etc etc...
- This branding could mean our corp gets the patent, and any future sales (perhaps the agent returns the BPO to ORE or whoever the agent works for, they get in touch and offer ABVSS 0.01% of all future sales of BPOS/Units or something - accepted by ABVSS and off into general market circulation it goes).
- Branding is not exclusive, others can follow the same research process and get the same product with their brand on the market (The advantage comes from what % you negotiate with the NPC, and obviously being the first to do it and marketing your corps 'brand' well)
- Maybe the surprise from your agent is he has created 2 vials of a potion (lets call it BEER) that when BEER is drunk it permanently loses you 1 intelligence point but gains you 2 points of charisma! ugh
- Perhaps he gives you a unique tech 3 rig that allows one of your carriers to go double the normal jump distance
- Or maybe he discovers and hands you a BPO for spider drones making you an instant billionaire!

Lottery is a good thing when we all win! ugh

Something cool would be destroying the science ship, and stealing off with the agent to either:
1. Ransom him
2. Transfer his research to another agent
3. lock him in a prison until he dies or reveals a previous secret... (Mission: Anyone want to go rescue a scientist for RPs?)

Possibilities are endless...

My concept though is getting more smaller empires in the game and giving them some real power and influence too - the game needs characters/heros and personalities.

And this science concept could create some right 'mad-caps' and allow real focus for some smaller newer corps because it is more based on a playing style diversifying from just PVP to make science more like industry as an active profession.

I for one can't wait for the day I can launch my ABVSS brand science vessel, grab one of Duvolle's finest and go cruising Nebulae, plundering Tak-Mahl ruins and hacking Drone Hive supercomputers...With the prospect of much fun, fame and fortune through non-violent game mechanics.

Cheers,
Vyk

- If you liked this post then let me know - Ideas are my business...If you didn't then go have a BEER! Cool

Nemtar Nataal
Demonic Retribution
Posted - 2006.10.31 10:59:00 - [338]
 

Edited by: Nemtar Nataal on 31/10/2006 11:00:12
Originally by: Vyktor Abyss
Edited by: Vyktor Abyss on 30/10/2006 15:20:57

Science Ships ♣ (apologies for any repetition)

I propose that NextGen research be conducted on corporate science ships of all shapes and sizes!

My proposal is that you have a science ship, and rather than visit your R&D agent, you physically go and employ him and his research team by taking him aboard your science ship. Perhaps you take along a couple of tech 1 or tech 2 Blueprints too!

I'd then love to see him accumulate RPs based on some scientifically interesting locations (& missions) you can get him to - For example:



I love this idear....especially because it potetialy would kill pasive research i mean there are no real reason why you shold accumolate RP if you are not doing anyting for them. Just like you dont get LP from a agent when dont do missions.
This set a side it would make the game much more versetile as there would actually be somthing to do in space that didnt require guns or a mining laser which are the 2 basic in space profisciens. Having research as a active tasque rather then the pasive one we have atm would make the field of science much more interesting Razz

PtolemaiosPlato Solomon
Gallente
Brave New World
Posted - 2006.11.09 07:01:00 - [339]
 

Edited by: PtolemaiosPlato Solomon on 09/11/2006 07:01:32
To Dimple and Ebogogo:

Thanks for your response to my previous posting here. Please post your replies here so others can see the great feedback. Still, lots of thanks.

Your questions and my answers:

Should this "fusioning" of items through NextGen research be applyable to all ships, items and lifeforms?
YES. That would create truly interesting things in EVE.

That reminds me a bit for that game Ragnarok (aka Valhalla) and its great way to combine things together, to interact them.
TRUE! That game is damn old, but that feature was something which made the game really exciting! EVE is much more professional in its visual approach than that old game, but the same strategy could work in EVE!

More questions or statements to my previous posting here? Please state here in this forum.

Sultar
Posted - 2006.11.10 10:12:00 - [340]
 

These ideas are not related to how to get your T2 BPO or how to change dramatically reasearch process. What I would very appreciate in the game is some system of reward during your research process. Currently the research process is almost 'no-feedback' & 'no-reward'. I'm proposing to have a system of small rewards linked to time invested in research (like every 10-reasearch agent missions, or similar). This could include stuff:
- flawed t2 items (just as original but with some flaws, ex. 150% pg consumption, or 0.01% probablility to break during usage)
- working t2 items (it works but, it's just a single protoype)
- flawed BPC or BPO of a t2 item (you have it but it's not optimat i.ex 10xproduction time, or 10xproduction material usage)
- working BPC of a t2 item (you have it but limited in production, or maybe your agent just got you a glimps of something anouther player have researched with him)
- other t2 production related materials
- hints on things related to researches (depends on the implemented system, but that may even be an info on who reasearched a bpo, or who is conducting a bpo research)

Mookuh
COLD-Wing
Posted - 2006.11.14 17:32:00 - [341]
 

Ok, it might have been suggested before, but I don't feel like reading through 12 pages of good but long proposals. Just delete this if it's a double, or triple, or whatever.

I also think that research should be able to give more than just T2 BPOs.
I like the suggestion on T2 BPCs and single T2 items, but I think you should loose all (or at least some) RP when you accept such an offer...much the way Agent offers work.
You could also give out BPCs for existing named modules, for instance a 5-run 'Arbalest Cruise Missile Launcher' BPC.
In fact, you could make a system similar to agent offers, where you get certain offers for certain amounts of points at a certain propability. For instance:
"Pay me 500k, loose 1000 RP and give me a T1 250mm Railgun and I'll fix it into a T2 version"

I know it isn't the most innovative, but it's easy to implement and would fit into the "flow" of the game.

Roddic
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2006.11.17 00:46:00 - [342]
 

Edited by: Roddic on 17/11/2006 00:54:33
Edited by: Roddic on 17/11/2006 00:48:49
it stands to reason that if you where going to take the time to learn how to build T2 ships, you would also gain benifits on T1 ship construction.

i therefore propose a few slight adjustments to the construction skills in mechanical. each level past the first one in the skill gives you a slight bonus in T1 ships.

for example.

level 1 of construction skill no changes.
level 2 of construction skill a slight time improvement.
level 3 of construction skill a slight mineral usage bonus.
level 4 of construction skill a slight wastage reduction bonus.
level 5 of construction skill a 2 by multipler of all bonus's within this skill.



P.S. Vyktor i like your science ship idea its good, and makes me drool a little at the prospect. maybe those 4mil of science SP i have arn't a waste after all.

Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Posted - 2006.11.22 01:18:00 - [343]
 

Thanks for the feedback mate...I'm not just saying this to be nice, but your idea seems good to me too. Nice job.

Shame none of the devs seem to read these posts though.

ugh

GuruJ
Gallente
Lynx Frontier Inc.
Posted - 2006.11.25 21:34:00 - [344]
 

The number of players have quadrupled. Why not at least just double the amount of of T2 BPOs to start.

Also allow R&D people to get T2 BPC's. 1 run to 1000 runs depending.

Invention doesn't help me, I'm not a builder. I'm a researcher. Skills needed to complete invention has nothing to with the R&D skills.

Don't make it more complicated and take more skills. Reward those who have done the skills already.

The 50+ days of training and each day running stupid missions for your R&D agents for Dbl points that get you nothing.

Don't make more complications. Just expand what you already have!

Alkirin
Gallente
Araton Aerospace Holdings
The Black Alliance
Posted - 2006.12.05 17:02:00 - [345]
 

Edited by: Alkirin on 07/12/2006 08:24:14
Edited by: Alkirin on 05/12/2006 17:04:13
Edit: Embarassing typos, and reclarification on invention views.

There is a clear descrepancy between the time you put into research, and the little that you get out of it.

Invention isn't as bad as I thought it would be...I apologize to CCP for making such a fuss about it.

Aside from bluerprint ME/Time research; there is little to no practical application for the long list of science skills in Eve. If you want this to change, then there should be some incentive for the science characters aside from 'Hey, my character is smart because he trained in the sciences'.

If science could factor in to exploration, it would be nice.

Edit: It would also be nice if Corporations could buy a limited number of research lab slots for corporate use...maybe at a fixed cost per month or somesuch.

Lucio
Gallente
Prosta Toots
Posted - 2006.12.10 09:09:00 - [346]
 

When it comes to manufacturing and research improvements, the one thing I'd most like to see is something that's kept relatively simplistic. There's already WAY WAY too many variations on each module out there as it stands, god knows how overwhelming it must be for a new player to start in this game now.


That said, the ability for a manufacturer to be able to tinker with their designs would be great as has been suggested in a myriad of ways.

The way I'd personally impliment them is by adding "skills" to blueprints. Each narrow market catagory would have 3 skills available (e.g. weapons might have damage, capacitor and range, shields might have capacitor, recharge and effeciancy). These could be improved via advanced research and each level in the skill would grant say a small bonus to that particular skill, in turn improving the overall module. The priviso comes from the cost of having to improve your design AND I would argue that there should be an increased build cost attached to building improved modules, for example building a gun with level 5 damage would require extra targeting computers or boosted capacitors.


Little Benjamin
Posted - 2006.12.14 12:12:00 - [347]
 

Player-Alliances can research, design and build their own "faction-ships" (t3):

the process may be like this:
1)research:
-alliance buys research-center to be put in player-built outpost
-the alliance buys "layout" of a t1 ship (similar to BPO with basic slots, attributes, calibration points, free selectible ship bonus)
-alliance needs a research-team (several skilled players) together to research that layout into certain direction
-result is a t3-BPO
2)design
-ship can be named, coloured and textured freely
3)build as usual like t2
4)further:
-maybe limit t3 BPOs per alliance
-researching t3 BS similar effort as building a titan(?)
-ships wouldnt be much über compared to t2, but much more diverse
-could be challenging to design a whole t3 setup (combining t3 ships & modules)
-instead of a "layout" maybe: reverse engineering t1 BPO to gain calibration points on it

thanks (didnt read most of the other posts)
\ben

Dawnstar
Gallente
Kiroshi Group
Exiliar Syndicate
Posted - 2006.12.14 21:26:00 - [348]
 

Edited by: Dawnstar on 22/12/2006 17:03:36
I actually haven't weighed in on this topic yet, as I wanted to actually contribute something useful.

There are a few things I think are crucial to making new technology useful and effective:

1. People who have a long track record of manufacturing (or researching) items should have an increased chance of developing new versions of said items. Whether this is simply some sort of counter which keeps track of how many of a particular item a character has built (and/or how many research levels he/she has put into an item) or some other system, it needs to reward the serious manufacturer. Someone who has built a couple of million power diagnostics should have a better chance of developing a power diagnostic 3 than an agent runner whose knowledge of the item is simply that it goes in a low slot.

2. Different regions and/or areas need to favor developing and building certain items. That's not to say it isn't possible to build items anywhere... it should just be (a lot) more expensive. This promotes trade between areas.

3. Skills. There should be a large number of skills which have a numeric effect on the cost/time to build new items. I'm not talking about prerequisite skills to build - I'm talking about skills that if you're lacking, it affects your bottom line.

4. Specialized manufacturing and research facilities. I think it would be interesting if there were specialized facilities which could only use a limited number of types of things, but which were much more efficient at that type.

For example, a specialized factory might specialize in hybrid ammo. Such a factory might generate a 75% reduction in production time to build hybrid ammo, but be unable to manufacture anything else.

Tying in with item 2, NPC stations could have specialized facilities.

5. Balance cost vs risk. This, I think is why the vast majority of manufacturing takes place in Empire space. Manufacturers always play with an eye on the bottom line. Right now the cost of doing major manufacturing in less secure space is too high for the return.

And its not as simple as just passing the costs on to the buyers - buyers can often just hop over to secure space to pick up items whose cost doesn't include the hazards of less secure space. There needs to be some sort of strong financial incentive to manufacture in less secure space (at least for those who manufacture for selling).

I've got some other notions I'm still toying with, so I'll be posting again as I better formulate them.

Futher Bezluden
Minmatar
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2006.12.15 11:11:00 - [349]
 

Edited by: Futher Bezluden on 15/12/2006 11:12:33
Next Gen R & M -page 2, post 46

After looking over my old suggestions and others offered, I'm loving the riggings. Almost everything there is covered including some that didn't get posted.

Now for invention and reverse engineering... muahahahaha
Invention & Rev. Eng

Dawnstar
Gallente
Kiroshi Group
Exiliar Syndicate
Posted - 2006.12.22 17:02:00 - [350]
 

Some nuisances which it would be wonderful to fix...

1. Can we get the wait times for the factory and labs to sort by actual time rather than as text? Currently 2 hours comes after 10 days when we sort.

2. Make blueprints which haven't been "assembled" (and still list their quantity) show up when we're viewing the corp or personal blueprints from the factory/lab panel.

3. When building from the corporate hangars, can we please have some sort of cached value which remembers what we last set the hangars to for that station?

4. Make the factory and lab selection default to using the next available slot rather than making us have to set it manually every time.

CrestoftheStars
Caldari
Recreation Of The World
Posted - 2006.12.24 12:56:00 - [351]
 

can't we just get the wait time removed?!
waiting 21 days to get a research lab just seems SO wrong...

and make bpo T2 awailable at the market.

Originally by: Dawnstar
Some nuisances which it would be wonderful to fix...

1. Can we get the wait times for the factory and labs to sort by actual time rather than as text? Currently 2 hours comes after 10 days when we sort.

2. Make blueprints which haven't been "assembled" (and still list their quantity) show up when we're viewing the corp or personal blueprints from the factory/lab panel.

3. When building from the corporate hangars, can we please have some sort of cached value which remembers what we last set the hangars to for that station?

4. Make the factory and lab selection default to using the next available slot rather than making us have to set it manually every time.


Mal Loc
Posted - 2007.01.25 22:29:00 - [352]
 

I am not sure if this is the right place for this feature request, but here goes.

I would like to see a feature that made it more easy to market Empire POS research slots.

It is currently difficult to do this because you can not allow other corporations access to your POS unless you are in an alliance with them.

This means the only solution for selling research slots to other corps is:
1. Join an alliance with them
2. Convince them to trust you enough to lend you their BPOs for researching. You might use collateral to do so, for instance.

Solution 1 is obviously difficult. If you have customers in different alliances this solution won't work. There are other issues as well.
Solution 2 is difficult because of the sheer value of some of these BPOs. This is just a lot of money to be putting on the table, so you will have to have very deep relationships with all of your customers, or put an awful lot of collateral up.

What I would like to see is a feature that allowed you to allow other corporations to use your POS without being in an alliance with you. I would not suggest adding much more complexity than that. Leave it to the owner corp and the client corp to negotiate the deal and enforce it's particulars. Eve does a great job of not providing too many game mechanics that prohibit actions by players which results in the great dramas that unfold. Keep it light and open, but do give Corps the ability to allow other Corps to use their station.

Arcalane Celso
Caldari
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.02.14 10:40:00 - [353]
 

Again, I'm not going to sift through the entire topic, but here are some things to look at for BPs of any flavour;

The option to use resources (databases, interfaces and whatnot) to add modifiers to a ship. So, for example, I could use a Mechanical Engineering Database and a Design Interface to add extra slots to a ship (1-2, perhaps) of any type, with downsides being penalties to other ship statistics and production cost. Likewise, I could choose to add a modifier much like ships normally have to it. Options could be to either replace the existing bonus, or add the new one on top of that. Replacing removes the cost of the original bonus, the latter adds the new bonus' cost on top of the current pricing. One could also choose to swap Turret slots for Launcher slots, and so on.

Other options for the less... picky of us could just be to slather on extra shielding/armour/whatever by default.

Same applies for... well, anything. I could spend time on working out how to upgrade the feed system on my missile launcher, or upgrade the projection velocity of my railgun. Smile

And some thoughts for Reverse Engineering;

There's two flavours of this - one based on BPCs, one based on physical components, and one based on both;

Type #1 - BPCs - this consumes the BPC and a lot of time and ISK (as well as resources) with a fair chance (25-50%, dependant on skills) to produce a fresh BPO that has no ME, PE or such. I could reverse engineer a 1-run ME20 Rokh BPC and come out with a ME0 Rokh BPO. The more runs on the BPC there are, the higher your success chance is.

Type #2 - Physical Components - this is basically the extreme careful process of taking something apart, labelling each little bit, working out where it goes and how it goes in, and then making a plan based off that. Like Type 1, it consumes the object (coz you're taking it apart) and creates a limited-run BPC based off the cost/availability of that object.

'course then, you get the fun of Reverse Engineering that BPC you just made to make a BPO! ;)

Type #3 - Both - This consumes a BPC and an object to make a BPO. Simple enough. I deconstruct the object, and, comparing results to the BPC, create a BPO. The object is lost, of course, but you get to keep the resultant parts, perhaps. Or you just end up with the object's volume in Scrapmetal. Surprised The BPC may or may not be consumed.

Bambi
Existentialist Collective
Posted - 2007.02.28 07:45:00 - [354]
 

Originally by: CrestoftheStars
can't we just get the wait time removed?!
waiting 21 days to get a research lab just seems SO wrong...

and make bpo T2 awailable at the market.




I prefer the wait to the way it used to be. At least with a queue you can get a lab, not like in days gone by when you could permanently 'own' a lab slot if you were rich enough.

KILL ALL T2 BPO, its the only way invention will ever work.

Kenn
Caldari
McKae Industries and Research
Posted - 2007.03.08 17:38:00 - [355]
 

Edited by: Kenn on 09/03/2007 16:59:00
I will try to keep this short but there is a lot to say here.

The T2 delima is not really one about how it is distributed or acquired but one about economics. I have not read through the whole forum so if someone already touched upon this I am sorry and I hope to offer a different angle on this.

I am not an insider like many players seem to be but I have played this game for 3 years now so I have a pretty good idea of how it all works. I have read the Dev blogs and from what I gather the Eve market is supposed to be a player driven market with out artificial influences. For an econonmics simulater this is a great idea but for a dynamic continious universe like Eve it's not so great.

The reason is that other important factors are left out. For example the Eve universe does NOT have a population equal to the players online or even the total amount of players with accounts. It has a population in the trillions if not hundreds of trillions! This would have a considerable effect on the market prices and should make it difficult to be influenced by any government in Eve, faction, alliance and certainly not corporations and never a player. The Ruling Governments in Empire space must be stable and solid beyond the reach of any players ability to challenge or else starting players won't have a chance since empire space can then become like deep space. Chaos and Mayhem is for deep space and should stay there along with the rewards for the intrepid(or foolish) who venture there.

So if the empires and the NPC corporations that support them are supposed to be the megagaints then they are the market makers too. They will pretty much set the price of a T2 item or a T1 BPO. To think that 16000 or even a million players will have that influence spread out over the countless corporations and governments is just silly. The prices should never fall below what it takes to manufacture them. I am sorry but no corporation would continue manufacturing these items and continue to sell them below the cost of producing them. Baselines need to be set and ccp can do this through the NPC's.

CCP is toying with the idea of using the invention process to distribute T2 items. But every player is going to do it in order to get T2 BPO's or BPC's. So the market may be flooded. But with a stable market that won't be a problem but a Hot T2 BPO may not make the same money as it did in the past when that player cornered the market.

I offer this.Don't scrap the T2 lottery but also Use Invention as a way of getting something beyond T1. Set up a system where a player uses an agent to acquire Research points. They can then use those research points to alter a T1 BPC (provided they have the proper skills and resources to do so) but never beyond the capabilities (translates to total RP of a T2 bpo) of a T2 bpo. They may surpass some attributes but it will lack in others (inferior to even a T1 version of the same item). It will cost points(lots of points) to increase a Blue prints attribute beyond the T1 value. If a value goes above an equivalant T2 BP then a negative number starts to show next to the total and it MUST be applied to something else to be reduced(as in make it worste for the player)but it can be distributed among all values. This will give flexibility to a player in making custom BP's but not destroy the T2 market.

Skills play an important role in this or I have to ask why we bothered to train them. A player with every science skill trained to level 5 is going to make smoking hot BP's and will likely corner the market. A Player with just a few science skills with none trained to level 5 will be lucky to produce anything above T1. This system now rewards the player with high level skills and allows noobs to build up to it as well leaving competition still a possibility.

I hope my ideas are of value to this forum thread and offer a different perspective on this issue.

Caldari Rules!
Heh Rolling Eyes

Kenn

Liber Merovi
Posted - 2007.03.09 19:55:00 - [356]
 

first time poster... 2 months playing...

While many of the ideas contain detailed mechanics for their ideas, mine is somewhat more open ended.

I recommend making new technologies that are player driven. Invention seems like a good (albeit expensive as i understand) way of accomplishing this. many online games introduce new "drops" for new items, as their way of introducing the new items into the game, as i understand it the T2 BPO's were distributed in a lottry, but what if all new items were set up to "drop" from invention? further these developments could come in stages...

the ability to invent a ship with an additional slot (simple), or enhanced resists (like an asault ship), special characteristics (like mining bonus, or covert-ops ability). these would not be easy at all, bu possible.

i have also thought that rather than BPO's there should be skills for every ship, and every variant, these would act as permanent BPO, and the cost would be based on the skill level. once you have perfected buildng a Kestrel, you can build them the cheapest and maybe even a little better. this could involve "inventing" for a new skill an advanced skill that looks at all the skills you currently have and at what levels. this would be a very easily predictable list of variable options, and be an open result. could end up researching a "named" item for production, or could invent a new item the universe has never seen before. could focus it on a certain skill and improve the chance of it being specifically based on that type of item, but make the overal process less likely to produce any result at all. blah... im ranting.

BPO's could be simply converted to a skill book, so any existing BPO owner would be able to learn the attached skill.

Lifewringer
Posted - 2007.03.11 22:25:00 - [357]
 

I really like the idea of making the BPO the sole property of the originating research corp under copyright. Then, players should be able to purchase BPC runs from their agent using research points and ISK as if they were buying a license to produce the item. In addition, if the BPC was traded or somehow acquired by someone who does not have the "license" to produce the items then they become pirated goods allowing Concord to take action in high security space identifying those players as smugglers or black marketeers. Also, any goods that are produced under those "pirated" BPC's would be flagged as pirated goods and if detected in the cargo holds of ships in empire space would trigger the appropriate response. This could add a whole dimension to the game and go along with the drug-dealing booster theme of the game to create an underworld for the devious players out there.

Pragor
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.03.14 10:37:00 - [358]
 

okay concerns I can see in nuking T 2 BPO's

1. Invention is a chance based system

2. Invention can never guarntee a supply of goods on market - BPO's can

3. The Process from start to finish is too long

4. Alot of people would leave to Elite build elsewhere - reducing the appeal of this game overall - with most I know having at least 3 accounts to handle all the work

5. Forget any new T2 ships being cheap - I herd T2 BS are on the drawing board - No Bpo = few of these ships every been seen in future

6. Invention creates standard items from the database - you really want to change things - make the stats of the item variable - depending on skills etc

Sharp82
Posted - 2007.03.15 18:57:00 - [359]
 

Research and manufacturing should remain difficult to master. But when you consider things like blueprints that are rare tech 2's, you cant really set your targets on it and get it..

We need it so that blueprints start at level 1 and as time goes on and the more manufacturing is done, it eventually opens up a next tech blueprint with minor improvements, and this would continue for say 3-4 items and then form a tech 2 fitting which you manufacture, but to start with you may only succeed at making the item 30% of the time because the concept is new.. After a few failed attempts it would become a standard BP known to that person because of their hard work on 1 type of fitting.

DaMaster Architect
Selectus Pravus Lupus
Posted - 2007.04.25 17:56:00 - [360]
 

I'd like to see an extra step towards manufacturing items and ships. Call it improving production.
Instead of:
Minerals -> Ship
You would have:
Minerals -> products -> Ship.
These products should make it possible to modify a ship or item to ones liking, and therefore introducing next-generation manufacturing. Just like items and ships, the products would need a blueprint to be build, but the blueprints of the endproducts (ships, items) would have the ability instead to modify the products you manufacture your item with, and thus you would end up with "branded" items and ships.

For example: if a manufacturer decides to use less than average amounts of engine-products in the production of his ship, the ship would be cheaper to make, but also slower. Ofcourse, there would be a minimal amount of products needed, since this kind of customisation can open up a whole can of worms. Still, it's worth looking into. The economic aspect of the game would become more mature, if you may call it like that :)


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