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Arshes Nei
LifeLine Solutions
Posted - 2005.12.02 17:04:00 - [451]
 

Edited by: Arshes Nei on 02/12/2005 17:14:45
Originally by: Lord Frost
Originally by: Arshes Nei
Originally by: Lord Frost
Originally by: KHEN

Should the Devs have to ban the mining barges just because the macrominers can buy and use these with the isks issued from their prohibited activities ?


Why support something that benefits macrominers?


So your saying we should ban mining barges? Shocked




ROFL... first, I think you are simply stupid. I never said anyting about banning barges! OMFG... atleast try and read my post... and secondly, some would say I was being sarcastic... something you don't obviously undestand. So, next time you want to blog off, please make sure you're not sticking your own foot in your mouth first. Make sure you check over what YOU write... not much sense came out of it. Okay, 2 mins wasted on my life getting that straight.



/* Arshes Nei applauds Lord Frost

Thats the way, just throw out some insults and make assumptions about how much intelligence or better lack of intelligence people that disagree with you have. Why dont you explain your ideas clearer if you dont want to get misunderstood? Wouldnt that be intelligent?

P.S. I just deleted all parts of the quote but Khens last sentence, your first sentence in reply and my conclusion to show that it wasnt that hard to misunderstand. Please note how i even phrased my conclusion into a question cause i wasnt sure how you meant it.

But i guess since you think im stupid and obviously dont understand you there is no real reason to argue with you about this, cause unlike you this doesnt affect me at all. Besides i dont think you are actually ready for a discussion of this, you just want to force your opinion on others and if they dont agree you either ignore or insult them.

Lord Frost
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2005.12.02 17:49:00 - [452]
 

If there is no reason to argue, then why did you even bother to make another post. This lame topic was stashed away and fading, like many wish it would. My ideas are very clear, if you bothered to read the thread.

I'll debate you in the issue, however, I feel you are pretty much stuck in your ways... I have an opinion, and my goal was to see how the majority of Eve felt, and I think CCP can realize from this post 90% of us wish to stop the sale of GTCs for in game isk.

Other than accomplishing that, I could care less what you think. My opinion is open to change, but I never forced anything on anyone. I simply have not heard a viable reason why anyone would even consider this fair and legit to the majority of players here. Heck, I considered trying it out, but I'm that that desperate for isk.

With that said, feel free to try and change my mind in game... I'm open to convos. But by all means, if I never hear from you again... that wouldn't be so bad either.

Arshes Nei
LifeLine Solutions
Posted - 2005.12.02 18:51:00 - [453]
 

Originally by: Lord Frost
If there is no reason to argue, then why did you even bother to make another post. This lame topic was stashed away and fading, like many wish it would. My ideas are very clear, if you bothered to read the thread.

I'll debate you in the issue, however, I feel you are pretty much stuck in your ways... I have an opinion, and my goal was to see how the majority of Eve felt, and I think CCP can realize from this post 90% of us wish to stop the sale of GTCs for in game isk.

Other than accomplishing that, I could care less what you think. My opinion is open to change, but I never forced anything on anyone. I simply have not heard a viable reason why anyone would even consider this fair and legit to the majority of players here. Heck, I considered trying it out, but I'm that that desperate for isk.

With that said, feel free to try and change my mind in game... I'm open to convos. But by all means, if I never hear from you again... that wouldn't be so bad either.


So back on the issue ...

Maybe im stuck in my ways, but i have no affilitiation with GTCs at all, so why would i even care? I tell you why i care, i have no problem with GTC sellers or buyers, but i do have a problem with bad arguments and people deciding things for other people, i just cant help it.

I have yet to hear a good argument against this GTC selling apart from:
>Its not fair! The rich are taking over anything! It will ruin the game/economy/whatever!< Which are all highly subjective.

And how you can note a majority of posts(not even 90% btw) being just either emotional or without any text but /signed is beyond me, sorry. There are very few good arguments in this thread that you got for your cause, its just too emotional. Ccp said time and time again, they are open to constructive advise. So why dont you make a constructive post explaining the real disadvantages of this trading, based not on your own situation, but on that of the whole playerbase, maybe you will wonder how easy i am to convince with arguments instead of insults, and ill bet you will get much more attention from ccp that way.

You know perhaps its cause i dont play this game very much atm, but when i log in from time to time i notice nothing really has changed. Market is still there, tech 2 stuff is still silly overpriced and just minerals got a bit cheaper(due to macroers i hear). And the subscriber base just keeps rising and rising, also despite this GTC trading and macroing. Looking in the sell forum i see about 3x more char sales then GTC sales and i dont get spammed ingame with offers for either.

Im not exactly bumping this thread, and im most certainly not trying to let it die. Im just trying to understand why people get so hyped up about something that most likely wont ever affect them unless it gets way out of hand.

And before people come and say this has gotten out of hand already, there have been only 11 GTCs been sold over the last 3 pages of the sell forum, thats not 11 threads but 11 cards total, some not even 90 day cards. On the same 3 pages there where 9 chars sold.
So its about 2,5bil from GTCs and around 10bil from chars. Oc not representative but it doesnt look like its the GTC trading that gets out of hand. So please just explain to me what the problem is, im always open to a rational explanation.

Jennifae
Posted - 2005.12.02 19:27:00 - [454]
 

not signed.

this is just another attempt to suggest that all the anti GTCers are really out to "save us" by removing all RL related variables from the game. They really aren't and they don't come close to their stated goal.

They seem, at their face value, to make sense though:

IE, no RL cash via ebay because that means things are ordered in game due to who is RL richest. No GTC for isk because that's backdoor movement of cash for isk. Again, seems reasonable. Unfortunately this is where their concern for "RL injections" into game stops.

Nevermind that some tool who doesn't hold a job and can play an abnormal and unhealthy amount of time provides just as much an an "ingame imbalance as the result of whatever RL situations permit such a abnormal level of playtime" as the aforementioned GTCer or Ebayer.

So why stop at GTCers and Ebayers if you're crusade against RL inputs swaying the game world are really legitimate.

Fact is, your crusade is NOT legitimate. It stops conveniently enough for you where it doesn't hurt the advantage YOU enjoy with respect inordinate, abnormal, and unhealthy amounts of playtime.

Perhaps CCP should go the full monty and establish a max amount of playtime that everyone could be logged into the game during a given 24 hour period. That would constitute legitimate and strict "equality of playing field."

At least sort of...I mean, what about multiple account players. They would get 2X the time per 24 hour period to influence the gaming world as the single account player.

Would the crusaders ban multiple account ownership as well? I know one thing, CCP knows who pays the bills and their salaries each month and I'm very confident that the current status quo of "channeling" and "mitigating" secondary market activity is intended to strike a balance between the dangers of a rampant secondary market influence MMO and the reality that you really can't eliminate it entirely in any case or with any method that is logically consistent and fair.

MaxPower
Posted - 2005.12.02 19:30:00 - [455]
 

I love carpet!

Lord Frost
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2005.12.02 20:27:00 - [456]
 

Arsh... my friend... before you comment and make accusations, please atleast try and read the entire thread... heck, just read my posts, and then perhaps we can talk.

as for...

Quote:
Im not exactly bumping this thread, and im most certainly not trying to let it die. Im just trying to understand why people get so hyped up about something that most likely wont ever affect them unless it gets way out of hand.


key words... "unless it gets way out of hand". So tell me exactly how some noob with a whole bunch of real cash can come in, sell cards, and buy a t2 bpo... a t2 bpo that thousands have been trying to win in lotteries and auctions?

One guys real cash has just nerfed the chances of 1000s of players working years at gaining their wealth, trusting the r&d lottery, and posting in auctions. And then... 1 week.. WHAMO... rich selfish guys takes it away.

Its not just t2 auctions. The entire market can be affected by this.... wars can be affected... corps can be destroyed... gamers lives ruined. And I can see you obviously don't know much about the number of GTCs sold.

So... in time people will have to do the same to compete. And in your words... "unless it gets way out of hand" ... we have a problem. Best put the KABOSH on it now... don't you agree?



Raid
Caldari
Tyrell Corp
INTERDICTION
Posted - 2005.12.02 20:47:00 - [457]
 

Theres two sides to this. What if i want to be able to pay ISK for game time? What if i have 20billion and i can play the game FOR FREE by selling my ISK. Why not? Even though i agree people who want to simply buy ISK shoudlnt be able to... timecard sales increase the number of people who can play this game but cant afford the monthly charge.

Claude Leon
Posted - 2005.12.02 20:54:00 - [458]
 

Edited by: Claude Leon on 02/12/2005 23:17:52
GTC should not be allowed period! Anyone buying and selling GTC for ISK should be banned. It is no different then buying ISK off of EBAY. This issue goes deeper then many of you can see. Some of these Ebay game gold selling places have been linked to organized crime syndicates.

Your real life riches should not be applied to what you have ingame.

Samirol
Love is Hate
Posted - 2005.12.02 22:33:00 - [459]
 

a bump for a good cause

Lord Dynastron
Mystical Knights
Posted - 2005.12.02 23:39:00 - [460]
 

They may have just pulled timecode sales from the site.... NOT TIME CARD sales,, TIME CODE sales. I can't seem to locate these ellusive codes for sale. I did find the cards tho....

Michelle Gray
Posted - 2005.12.06 10:06:00 - [461]
 

Okiey very hard to sort the difference between time Carde ande time game cards.

Reading the discussion helped of course. But next time it is a good Idea to explain the words you are useing. I realy thought you wanted to stop to buy gametime for normal money instead of useing Credit dept cards.

I am not signing this because it is not my decsion to take if it is worth the work stopping the trading sides. But I am supporting the issue.

I personly think that stopping these people would give our younger players the oppurtunity to gain a feeling that money does not grow on trees. Also other people will learn that.
I do not believe that people are rich who buying virtual money. I simply believe they cant handle rl. That is of course my personal opinion and nothing personal.

If anyone is against it, I would search for the side and look if they sell for World of Warcraft. Blizzard has declared war against this behaviour and publicly said that they take actions against them.
And they stomping enough in the community around to make me think they mean it.
So I would report that to them. My guess is that they will stomp on that side and close it down.
If one starts succsessfully others might follow, you know Twisted Evil

Vote with your feets not with petition. Paper has a lot of time if you ask me.

Thats what i think about this topic. Maybe you should ask CCP if they would concider to work with Blizzard to forbid this but realy it is CCP choice to make because it is their "property" we are talking about.

Nihn Lemai
Posted - 2005.12.06 10:07:00 - [462]
 

Signed... nothing more to add really.

The GoldenRatio
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2005.12.06 11:18:00 - [463]
 

Just wanted to correct a logical error.

"So tell me exactly how some noob with a whole bunch of real cash can come in, sell cards, and buy a t2 bpo... a t2 bpo that thousands have been trying to win in lotteries and auctions? One guys real cash has just nerfed the chances of 1000s of players working years at gaining their wealth, trusting the r&d lottery, and posting in auctions. And then... 1 week.. WHAMO... rich selfish guys takes it away."

The only way a RL rich guy can take a tech 2 BPO away from you is if YOU won it and then YOU decide to sell it to him. If you did not win it, then someone else won it so you wouldnt have gotten it anyways. How can RL money increase a persons chances of getting a BPO? Buy 50 accounts and train them all up so he wins several BPOs? No. He must BUY IT FROM SOMEONE WHO LEGITAMATLY WON IT. Which means if you did not win it you would not have gotten it anyways. See what I'm trying to say?

It happens often that someone wins a BPO and then GIVES it to their friend or corpmate etc. Does this HURT the game? OF COURSE NOT. When someone convinces someone else (using RL cash) to give him a tech 2 BPO it does not create new items into the game that would not have been there, and it DOES NOT take a BPO away from someone who "played by the rules" and wanted to win one.

Quit being jelous of others good fortune. Whether BPOS are sold for RL cash or not DOES NOTHING TO LOWER YOUR CHANCES OF WINNING A BPO. Period.

Samirol
Love is Hate
Posted - 2005.12.10 11:21:00 - [464]
 

bump, the thread shall never die

GuMtIMe
Posted - 2005.12.10 11:52:00 - [465]
 

signed/

still think they should sell but something must be done..it's really getting out of hand, dunno really know how...

Fairchild
Caldari
Jimmy Riggers
Another Really Stupid Enterprise
Posted - 2005.12.10 11:59:00 - [466]
 

absolutley pathetic

just like u lot had level 4 missions nerfed, if u dont liek sumthing u ***** at ccp untill they change it

GROW UP GROW UP GROW UP


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