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Sharp Dressed Man
Posted - 2005.12.01 09:32:00 - [91]

On TQ i fly Minmatar and Caldari BC's and i would like to test wich BS is best before i train those skills. On the test server i can only fly my old Stabber. Also found out that i have 1B iskQuestion to fit what?
Like this i dont have any use for the test server.
Why dont you call it a DEV or BUG server so i know i dont have to go there for testing my stuff.Wink

Posted - 2005.12.01 11:57:00 - [92]

Originally by: Mephysto

I strongly object to any implication or accusation that ISD are using the test servers for their personal gain. When I became a bughunter I found I spent more time on the test servers finding bugs than I did on TQ. I find the idea that I
use the server (dare i say selfishly) to better thier tq chars with gathered information

laughable at best and deeply insulting at worst. Without the bughunters dedication and sacrifice there would be alot more time between patches as the QA procedure would take alot longer.

Do you think everyone who sign up as bughunter do it for the 1) to find bugs free for ccp 2) get firsthand info on ships and modules and change to get info from devs like possible upcoming balances aka nerfs?

I mean you said it yourself here
I hear you ask "Why should I give up my valuable Eve time?". Well, as a BugHunter, you will get to see all the new features before they arrive on TQ, and to play with those parts of the game you may not have available to you (How many of you have flown a Dreadnought, and activated a Jump Drive?). You may be able to question some of the devs directly about how the mechanics of Eve are supposed to work, and a few other fringe benefits too. (Please note, we get to play with the new ships, but another team deals with the actual balancing of these ships.)

Kcel Chim
Arcane Technologies
The Five
Posted - 2005.12.01 23:48:00 - [93]

there is a few flaws in the current system.

first of all the test server is supposed to "test" stuff. If i have my 31 mil skp (which i suppose isnt newbie level) laid out i can currently only test the things i have on TQ -x weeks (since last mirror). This means unless im training 2+ months on TQ beforehand ill -not- be able to test any of the capital ships. Even if i want to test them.
Now i may ask you politely what am i supposed to test, only the new changes to existing gamestuff while a small elite, namely those who are rich or longer in the game (on tq) will ALWAYS test the new stuff ?

Training on Sisi is also not an option because it will take i.e. 80 days for me to get battlecruiser 5 and Leadership skills on 5. So unless im training the same stuff on TQ and on sisi i wouldnt be able to use t2 bcs after the next mirror (which is likekly to happen before 3 months pass) either.
In return this would mean that if i want to test t2 bcs i ONLY need to train for it on TQ since Sisi will be updated once or twice till im there anyways, so there would be no point in actually bothering with SiSi (apart from beeing a good tester).

From a private perspective i can only say that this training time issue i.e. has put me off training for dreadnoughts on TQ. Ive had the feeling that i wouldnt want to "waste" months of trainingtime and huge amount of isks on a project which ive not tested nor experienced before. 2nd hand information is only 2nd class.

This is not meant as an attack but when u are offering new endgame goals which require months worth of traintime and 50 billion isk and alot of legwork by dozends of players maybe u should present the product in a more open way. Not to encourage everyone to fly around in carriers (which could be fun to test aswell a big capital fleetbattle anyone?) but to give ppl a selfexperienced tease of what is to come and to help them decide if the thing they might spend considerable playtime in is worth it for them.

Imagine the dissatisfaction of a bunch of players if they find out after 3 months that the titan might actually suck (in their perception).

As a conclusion (if it is possible and doesnt take too much work) i would suggest that u maybe give ppl shortly before the rpm launch a 1 week xmas special on sisi where ppl get maxed out skills and can once for all test the fancy new stuff. Im not advertising a general "oh today i wanna fly a t2 laser geddon and 2morrow a t2 railathron" approach either, just so u get it straight. Im only talking about the big fancy new content here.

Black Nova Corp
Posted - 2005.12.02 13:57:00 - [94]

Edited by: KIAHicks on 02/12/2005 13:58:53
Would faster training time break the testing process though? If every knows in advance that skills will train 10x faster on SiSi, then should any skills not train 10x faster it can be filed as a bug.

You'd still have people with varied implants training different ranked skills, so skill testing would still be done to an extent.

The main reason I don't bother with SiSi is that all the new ships/modules that needs testing I enver have the skills for and can't be bothered training up for it only to have it whacked by the next mirror.

Theres lots of modules/ship types that my main character doesn't fly and never will fly that I could be testing, but will never be able to train enough to test.

I know I can login and test existing ships that I can fly, but that just isn't a big enough insentive. There are those that are more than happy to just login and test everything. I guess I'm not one, I have limited time to play eve as it is. However, I would given the oppertunity to train very fast, login and test new ships/skills/modules and at the same time lower end existing items.

I agree that skill training needs testing just as much as everything else. But for example, there is no way I can test pos' out without training the skills to do so. and we know pos' are bugged to hell and really could have done with much more testing. But if only a limited number of people can test them, and the rest have to spend time training for it, it limits the numbers that will actually test.

What I'd like to see happen with SiSi is that on mirror, all accounts are automatically moved into the fightclub and granted hanger access. Why waste bug testers time requiring them to do this? Players can then leave the corp and make a new one if they wish to test other features like corp wars (or split player base between seperate test corps).

Increase skill training time. Not by changing rank of skills or auto implants, but by increasing the overall tick rate calculation so that skill points tick at 10x the standard rate. Yes a bug might slip through the cracks due to this as its no longer a perfect duplicate environement to test in, however if it means more players are now capable of testing the new changes even if they'd never use them in TQ, it has to be a good trade off imo.

Skill training times + having to rejoin fight club in order to get the items to test are the main things keeping me from testing.

Posted - 2005.12.02 16:10:00 - [95]

Another idea would be to give players ability choose max 2-4 skills, so they could try&test one part of patch. Not everyone is going to get same skills, so testing would be more diverse.

Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2005.12.04 14:25:00 - [96]

Fight club allows you to test ships etc and there are plenty of people who are not in fight club, why not give max skills/99implants to fight club/a new special corp, this would allow people to test things if they wanted to ie just join the corp people who dont want do are therefor testing the skills.

Kcel Chim
Arcane Technologies
The Five
Posted - 2005.12.04 17:05:00 - [97]

Originally by: Wanten
Fight club allows you to test ships etc and there are plenty of people who are not in fight club, why not give max skills/99implants to fight club/a new special corp, this would allow people to test things if they wanted to ie just join the corp people who dont want do are therefor testing the skills.

ppl dont join fightclub anymore because its too much hassle for the bhs to accept ppl manually. Another reason is that now stuff is stocked up on the market for 100 isk so that noone has to search hangars for it or that there are ppl who just by noobiness take the whole hangar or all items of 1 type.

Hawk Firestorm
Posted - 2005.12.04 17:42:00 - [98]

ya the arguement that all levels of gameplay have to be tested is true, however it doesn't mean we have to pull teeth to do it.

Not sugesting that 60 day skills level in 5mins but then again it certainly doesn't mean they have to be 60 either on test, and still have players testing all levels of gameplay.

End of the day if there's not something there for the player to test ie FUN, then people won't test.

And providing a sandbox enviroment where the player base can try new things out, and try break your code in the process isn't a bad thing.

Like many I don't use test much these days mainly because it's always behind my main on TQ, and soon as I train up to test content I'm looking at in game it's gone next mirror.

Veto Corp
Posted - 2005.12.04 19:48:00 - [99]

Originally by: Startica

Ultimatly you should test what you can allready do,, that is what will affect you the most when patch is released.

I agree. But I can't test what I can already use when my skill training is about 2 months behind what it should be, can I? I also can't test new stuff if it takes 2 months to train (after 2 months training up to my TQ levels), because *bam* mirror and I'm back to square one. Also, 'what you can use' on TQ is quite often what many other people can use- and as such it is already being tested to death. What needs testing is the new stuff, because that's more likely to have bugs. Who wants to release bugs onto TQ? I'm sure no-one does. But if we can't test the stuff, we won't find the bugs!

I understand that they can't mirror every week or anything like that. But the setback in skills is immensely annoying, so I'm in favour of a method of advancing skill training. What method? I'm not sure. I think 'the one that is the most useful' is the best answer there.

Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2005.12.04 21:13:00 - [100]

i can't see why they just don't give us the skills to be able to test these new ships.

Whilst testing for Shiva, they did exactly that - just the skills u needed to be able to use the new toys!!

If they could do it for pre-Shiva, why not for pre-RMR ??!!!

Dash Ripcock
Posted - 2005.12.04 21:24:00 - [101]

When they didn't have it patched for a while, they increased training speed considerably. Suddenly, everyone could fly the ships they wanted to test before they hit TQ! As it stands, the only testing people get to do is training old ships that they already know about. It's no wonder every patch results in quick balance fixes, or something huge down the line - none of the new stuff actually gets tested.

Posted - 2005.12.06 08:21:00 - [102]

I find it hard to believe that you cant put in a quick train mode, and keep the old sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow mode option of training intact for testing.

It's a test server, people are there to do everything they can.

I can't even PLAY on the test server because the bleeping copy is so bleeping old. Really frustrating.

Ahop Yol
Posted - 2005.12.06 10:08:00 - [103]

I disagree with the dev post. Once again, only the vets are catered for on the test server. It doesn't give newish players a chance to test anything before it goes live due to not being able to get all the skills trained up in time.

When are CCP going to realise that not everyone in EVE started mid 2003 and not everyone has tens of millions of skillpoints?

Think about the little people for once!!!!!!!

Blackest Sheep
Posted - 2005.12.06 10:45:00 - [104]

The simple truth is, while skill training might be tested on SiSi, a lot of stuff is not. Or at least not properly, because too few people can actually use it.

Case in point, I started training EW on Tranq a few weeks back. I would really like to test the mk2 changes to certain ships, especially the new EW ships, but without the proper skills I cannot. And training them is not an option because I cannot spend a lot of time getting in the game on Tranq and SiSi and change short-running skills all the time.

As it is now, the new ships will not be tested by players at all. Maybe CCP should simply admit that a lot of things that get into the game are not player tested. That must not mean that they are bad, but they are certainly not tested by the playerbase.

11th Division
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2005.12.06 12:13:00 - [105]

Back in 1997 on Ultima Online, you could set your own skills on the test server with a single command line.
Your skills would still 'advance' (it was skill based game, not a level based game) but at least people could see the effects of all changes.

Posted - 2005.12.08 02:27:00 - [106]

Originally by: BH Sharkbait
Originally by: Ikvar
I don't see why everyone isn't just given maxed skills on SiSi. When I asked a BH about it he said it was because skill training needs to be tested. Now, my thoughts on this are:

1. Skill training doesn't need to be tested, really.
2. It's hard to actually test anything let alone new stuff when the mirror is months old, you're missing 2.5m SP in comparison to what you have on TQ.

i was probably the BH that said that, i say that alotVery Happy. and yes, skill training is like everything else, it needs constant testing. if everyone had max skills or super fast training it would not be tested right.

I would say that "speeding up" training but keeping the same linear rate of training would accurately test skills, and at the same time allow users to thoroughly test out new stuff. Much in the way that you might test an application with a small test database. Just pretend that instead of 1 hour = 1000 SP, an hour = 60,000 SP. So a minute of play on Sisi would equal an hour on Tranq.. obviously the ratio could be tweaked to your comfort.

Posted - 2005.12.08 21:49:00 - [107]

Bump :)
+1 to idea. It would be very nice because i want to test actual equipment/ships and not skill training...

Focused Annihilation
Detrimental Imperative
Posted - 2005.12.08 22:26:00 - [108]

Devs has stated their intentions. Let it drop...

Mods feel free to lock.

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