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Blitz Hacker
Minmatar
Kill Em All
Curse Alliance
Posted - 2005.11.20 09:01:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Blitz Hacker on 20/11/2005 09:52:46
I've been searching the eve forums for some information on attacking convoys; most of it is either out of date; educated guessing/hersey or just plain obsolete/wrong.

I thought I would give a post with how I've found to successfully attack convoys, and dispel a couple rumors that are going around the forums.

Lets begin with the very basics.

Convoys are NPC 'haulers' usually in groups occasionally as low as 2l rarley as large as 6.. (usually 3-5)
They have various names depending on which faction the convoy is being sent from.

Few points to note here so we're clear on this:

#1 You do take Standing hits for the corps convoys belong to; not sec hits or racial standing.

#2 you do-not get Concord-ed even in high sec space; with one major exception. If the convoy is a concord convoy (explained later on)

#3 Attacking convoys -is- profitable if done right; isk for your time it is -not- the best bang for your buck; however the materials dropped are often expencive in large quantites. Reports; Synthetic oil, Hydrogen; Oxygen, Robotics, and several other 'pos'/Tech2/R&D resources aswell. Quafe Cola for the thirsty :)

Convoying essentially is High-sec imperial space NPC pirating.

Ideally you'll have most luck hunting in .5 .6 and occasionally .7 space.

The basic premise is knowing which NPC corp convoy's your dealing with, this is not as easy as it first sounds; however it can be done to avoid needless confusion/complication.

You want to attack only incoming convoys to stations from
-other- npc corps.
I will elaborate on this a little further; as this may result in a death or 3 if your not careful, you want to attack inbound convoys coming from 'other' corporations (Inbound convoys from NPC corp's other than the station it is arriving at)

To clarify this a little; some systems for example have 2 or more stations owned by the same NPC corp, not necessarily named identically.. (right click goto show info on a station to view which corp owns which) this is another good reason to hunt in .7 - .5 secs as they usually have fewer stations; and generally speaking less are 'dupe' owned stations by the same NPC corp.

Which brings me to the point of how convoy's assemble.
Please read this carefully ;) I can't stress enough.

Convoys begin by one npc 'hauler' spawning at a station. It flys out from the station into the middle of no-where.
60-120 seconds later; another will spawn. The first hauler that left; will do a 180 degree turn and turn right around coming back to the station; meet up with the hauler that spawned and then continue going into 'no-where' again. This process repeats over and over until the 'max' number that the convoy is supposed to be is filled. -Do not mistake these for inbound convoys- So if they're flying towards the dock; it does not mean they are inbound convoys. Watch for a npc 'hauler' spawned near the station they're usually headed back towards the station to pick up their next member.

Having said that; after the convoy forms up and the max number has been reached it will travel out into space, in the 'general' direction of another station within the same system. They will travel approx 150-170km's from the dock at this point.. then 'vanish' No warp out graphic.. nothing. About 10-20 seconds later they will appear at the dock they are going to. Note: they travel approx 150-175km's before 'disappearing/warping?' from the dock, not the sentry guns. If you fire on the convoys before they warp out.. turrets will have their way with you.

* Convoys do-not leave a system they are self-contained within each system.

* From my experiences all docks form up their convoys at the exact same time btw, oddly some take up to 20 minutes longer to actually get to their destionation than others??

For some unknown reason; some npc corps send convoys to themselves. (2 or more stations owned by same corp) attacking these inbound convoys will get you turreted and probably killed.

Blitz Hacker
Minmatar
Kill Em All
Curse Alliance
Posted - 2005.11.20 09:02:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Blitz Hacker on 20/11/2005 09:18:25
Following these convoys from when they 'warp' out they will vaguley line up with another station (no where near exact)

Select the 'lead' hauler, click on look at; shift your view around behind them and see what the closest station they are travelling towards on their course, if they're travelling into the 'void' the convoy most likley hasn't filled yet and will be doing another 180 turn to pick up another hauler to add to the convoy.

Under no circumstances do you want to attack any convoys; either inbound or outbound belonging to CONCORD. Goes without saying what happens. Same applies with Customs Officials.

I generally avoid systems with any concord stations in them for this very reason. Laughing

After following the convoy which has left a station headed towards another; find which station it is warping to; and if it belongs to another corp (a convoy leaving from Federation Navy; is a Fed. navy convoy) warp to that station; depending on system loads it takes approx 10-20 secs for them to appear; at this point if #1 the convoy doesn't belong to the station they are arriving at and #2 it doesn't belong to concord, you can open up on them reguardless of where the turrets are as they will not open fire.

I would suggest especially if your just starting yer pseudo npc pirating carrer to use either a well equipt frigate or a low end cruiser; personally I use a Stabber as they're fast; cheap and expendable if by some chance you attack the wrong convoy at the wrong time.

A well armed frigate; or small cruiser without a tank will easily beable to kill the haulers. I would suggest an Afterburner or Microwarp if you have it as it usually requires you to move long distances with some speed.

A tip I've used to further simplify this process is to get yourself into a gang; I would suggest bringing a hauler as the sheer volume of goods is a little much for any non industrial ship to carry. (note: Contraban drops -often-)
while in the gang work out a system based on the corp stations present in the system your doing your hunting in; 1 = fed navy 2 = Joint Harvesting 3 = Jovian ect ect.
put a 'tag' on any forming convoys you see with the correct number tag; if you see what appears to be an inbound convoy you will beable to easily identify which corp that convoy belongs to.

(note: To see tags; make sure you have the 'tag' column enabled in overview settings)

Some convoys are more apparent than others; Joint harvesting; Chemal Tech for example use Iterons as haulers (and occasionally badgers??) Where as Minmatar corps use Hoarders and Mammoths; you get the idea.

Find inbound convoys with tags you've already placed on them double check they're from a different corp than the corp owning the station they're flying to; if they're different open up on them kill them collect loot;

You will 'always' get a warning msg with a YES/NO dialogue; if you will aggro'd by turrets or not, as soon as you aggro one of the haulers in the convoy they will all lock you and start firing (while continuing towards the station) They're very lightly armed.

Abstractly this sounds like an easily done deal; however multiple convoys will be travelling to different places at the same time; general rule; if you don't have it tagged/don't know which corp it belongs to, your taking yer life into yer own hands.



Blitz Hacker
Minmatar
Kill Em All
Curse Alliance
Posted - 2005.11.20 09:02:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Blitz Hacker on 20/11/2005 09:51:16
Edited by: Blitz Hacker on 20/11/2005 09:30:13
Edited by: Blitz Hacker on 20/11/2005 09:26:18
In practice...

To keep it simple you have 4 stations;
A, B, C and D

Station A and B belong to 'Joint Harvesting'
Station C belongs to Fed. Navy
Station D belongs to Concord

If station C sends a convoy to station D; you can attack it while it is arriving at the concord station.

If station D sends it's convoy to station A; You can't attack it period. It's Concord owned. (If you've never been Concorded try it.. once :)

If station A sends a convoy to station B; you cannot attack it; they are owned by the same corp; turrets will fire on you even if the convoy is arriving.

Best way to think of this is as if all NPC stations are essentially 'PoS'es (Player Owned Stations)

If your corp has a station with turrets; and you've made a quick trade deal with another corp; you send a hauler over to the other corp; if a Pirate attacks you while near your PoS; your turrets will open up and promptly fire on them.

If you arrive at your destination PoS (the other corps) and the pirate attacks you there; their Turrets will -not- defend you as your not a member of their corp.

Lastly; don't use any ship your not willing to use; even myself occasionally mess up and attack the right ships at the wrong time; or wrong ships at the right time?? :)
Use cheap mods;
Cheap ships;
Always insure.

This is a long read; but I thought it might be worth the while as I found little to no posts on successfully attacking convoys in imperial space.

If I have missed anything please feel free to add on in a reply, again please keep this to first hand experience not 'my friend told me..' :)

Thanks for your time; and happy hunting :)

-Blitz Hacker-

Edit: Checking again you do take standing hits to the specific corps the haulers belonged to; not the racial standing however..


Shovasta
Posted - 2005.11.20 09:32:00 - [4]
 

After all this itme I finally understand :)

Selena 001
Posted - 2005.11.20 09:33:00 - [5]
 

Not to contradict what you've stated but I just use 1 simple rule:

Stay >100km away from the nearest sentry.

I use cruisers or BC's to pop the hauler and I have NEVER had a problem (although I have lost standing with the owners of the haulers).

Blitz Hacker
Minmatar
Kill Em All
Curse Alliance
Posted - 2005.11.20 09:38:00 - [6]
 

To my knowledge I have taken no sec/standing hits doing as I've described above and had no 'aggro' period either; where as I have yet to get a definate answer on max ranges of turrets as in some cases have been hit up to 172km's from the nearest turret.

Sniping may work but I would seriously prefer not to risk a 30+ mil ship for the goods they drop; besides tis all good fun having to use yer head every once in awhile :)
-Blitz-

F'nog
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2005.11.20 09:45:00 - [7]
 

You'll take a standing hit against whatever corp you attack, unless something has changed recently.

Blitz Hacker
Minmatar
Kill Em All
Curse Alliance
Posted - 2005.11.20 09:53:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: F'nog
You'll take a standing hit against whatever corp you attack, unless something has changed recently.


Double checking your indeed correct I've edited the original post to reflect.. thanks bud.

-Blitz

M3ta7h3ad
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2005.11.20 09:58:00 - [9]
 

And Concord doesnt "Concord" you if you attack their convoys.

I've attacked Concord to Concord convoys several times now (they are infact the only convoy's I've ever attacked), and the only thing that aggro's me are the damn sentry guns.

Vladic Ka
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2005.11.20 10:41:00 - [10]
 

Great guide. Ive been popping convoys now for about an hour :P

Snake Jankins
Minmatar
German Cyberdome Corp
Cult of War
Posted - 2005.11.20 11:31:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Snake Jankins on 20/11/2005 11:42:49
I've killed some of these haulers, too.
But I'm not sure about the inbound outbound thing, because I've killed haulers who have been flying away from a station without being shot. (except they were really inbound, but didn't dock and just passed by over one hundred km. At least I shot them while they went away from a station. )

The loot is usually the same, which makes it a bit boring after some time. But it's fun to do it a few times and maybe it's also a good income for newbies.

Btw. you don't need an expensive ship for it. I did it once with a Slasher and once with a Rifter. Just orbit while shooting and then the damage you take is not worth talking about.
So I think you are able to do that with a character who's only one week old.

Dezra
Celestial Apocalypse
Posted - 2005.11.20 12:13:00 - [12]
 

Has anyone calculated the expected profits from convoy hunting?
I raided convoys ages ago, and never found it lucrative.

Could make more isk npcing, mining,trading and agent running.
I remember certain convoys dropped harvester drones tho, but i doubt they do anymore.

M3ta7h3ad
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2005.11.20 12:17:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Dezra
Has anyone calculated the expected profits from convoy hunting?
I raided convoys ages ago, and never found it lucrative.

Could make more isk npcing, mining,trading and agent running.
I remember certain convoys dropped harvester drones tho, but i doubt they do anymore.


Its useful when you find a convoy that drops 8 Million units of Trit. My corp found 2 or 3 I believe in 0.0 space, and when your doing ship production that makes a hell of a difference. :)

Professor McFly
Posted - 2005.11.20 13:03:00 - [14]
 

Great guide, thanks!

Snake Jankins
Minmatar
German Cyberdome Corp
Cult of War
Posted - 2005.11.20 13:50:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Snake Jankins on 20/11/2005 13:54:33
Originally by: M3ta7h3ad

Its useful when you find a convoy that drops 8 Million units of Trit. My corp found 2 or 3 I believe in 0.0 space, and when your doing ship production that makes a hell of a difference. :)


Yes, but these are totally different. Hauler spawns are just npcs spawns in asteroid belts. They spawn from time to time like 1-3 haulers/trailers/carriers with a lot of mins guarded by some battleships, cruisers and fregattes.

Sometimes the loot is bad, sometimes it's really great.
Once I got two hauler spawns in a row.
Result: about 25 mil tritanium, a few mil pyerite, 2 mil mex, almost 1 mil isogen and 16k zydrine or something like that.
The difficult thing is not to kill them, but to get everything out of the belt, because of respawn and such, so you have to tank the rest of the spawn or the next spawn to get everything out of the belt without loosing ships.

Ikvar
A Blue Goat
Posted - 2005.11.20 13:54:00 - [16]
 

I've attacked convoys leaving stations and not been killed.

uaheuhaeuh
Posted - 2005.11.20 14:07:00 - [17]
 

I have also attacked them leaving the stations, I always waited untill they were 75km away from the station, never had any problem.

Jaabaa Prime
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2005.11.20 15:24:00 - [18]
 

This is going back a bit, but you used to take faction standing hits for attacking convoys.

I once had a go at NPC convoy killing, and as a true Minmatar I kept on killing Amarr convoys Smile

Then one day I had to go to Amarr empire space, jumped in and a little message came up along the lines of "You are an enemy of the state and must die !". Concord didn't do anything, but the Amarr navy had a go at me because I had serious negative standings from the Amarr Empire towards me at that point YARRRR!!

So unless it has changed, you take faction hits too Very Happy

dabster
Minmatar
Di Hart's Solar Systems Corporation
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2005.11.20 17:49:00 - [19]
 

It's actually perfectly possible to use rookieships to kill the haulers with, they wont be able to hit you YARRRR!! (it takes a bit of time to kill something though ofc Laughing)

Lygos
Amarr
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2005.11.20 18:09:00 - [20]
 

Open season on Gallente profits doesn't sound so bad.

Do cargo scanners work on them?

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2005.11.20 18:17:00 - [21]
 

I have also killed outbound convoy's, but it's very problematic. It makes me wonder if not every convoy leaving a station is actually "owned" by that station. Perhaps some of these convoy's make a round trip? Hmmmm.

Killing outbound comvoy's is very risky. In some area's you can get away with it on a semi-regular basis, but eventually you get smoked.

The method outlined above is the safest and most reliable by far. Anything else is a gamble... regardless of whether you have had good luck with it or not.

It is worth a mention that once you have killed the convoy from "station B", it is generally not a good idea to scoop up the goods yourself and then go dock at station B for awhile, you tend to have a nasty reception waiting for you.

And yes, if you hunt Amarr Navy Convoy's, don't expect the Amarr Navy to have much patience with you in the higher security systems after awhile.

Blitz Hacker
Minmatar
Kill Em All
Curse Alliance
Posted - 2005.11.20 22:39:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Dezra
Has anyone calculated the expected profits from convoy hunting?
I raided convoys ages ago, and never found it lucrative.

Could make more isk npcing, mining,trading and agent running.
I remember certain convoys dropped harvester drones tho, but i doubt they do anymore.


As I have started convoy hunting only as of reciently; I'm not aware of 'all' the loot tables.. but I'm almost certian those harvester drone drops are long history :(

-Blitz-

Blitz Hacker
Minmatar
Kill Em All
Curse Alliance
Posted - 2005.11.20 22:40:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Dezra
Has anyone calculated the expected profits from convoy hunting?
I raided convoys ages ago, and never found it lucrative.

Could make more isk npcing, mining,trading and agent running.
I remember certain convoys dropped harvester drones tho, but i doubt they do anymore.

Profits at going market value; approx 1.5 - 1.9 million isk per convoy. Not bad considering you can do it in a frig, I'm also not certian what the loot tables on these look like as in if one might drop a bpo.. that's prolly wishful thinking but; would be interesting.

Blitz Hacker
Minmatar
Kill Em All
Curse Alliance
Posted - 2005.11.20 22:43:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: uaheuhaeuh
I have also attacked them leaving the stations, I always waited untill they were 75km away from the station, never had any problem.


Heard of people doing it; end result is you get criminally flagged by that corp and a 15-20 minute cool down period while the turrets will open up on you from that corp; I've tried it and so far just hersey from what I can tell.. I've tried it with 6 stabbers; and lost a stabber to turrets each and every time.

-Blitz-

Hellspawn01
Amarr
Posted - 2005.11.20 22:49:00 - [25]
 

It helps to scan the convoy before attacking it. There is no penalty or response if you scan them.

Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
Posted - 2005.11.21 02:40:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Blitz Hacker

I've been searching the eve forums for some information on attacking convoys; most of it is either out of date; educated guessing/hersey or just plain obsolete/wrong.


This sums up 99% of the posts on these forums quite well.

But I can vouch for the accuracy of your post. I used the information to attack a convoy these evening and it worked just as you stated. Thank you.

Now I have to figure out what to do with the tons of horse manure. Very Happy

Astabon
Minmatar
Posted - 2005.11.21 03:16:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Lygos
Open season on Gallente profits doesn't sound so bad.

Do cargo scanners work on them?


AFAIK Yes. I've scanned them, weather or not that's what drops, not sure, I was too scared to attack till now (been Concorded a few times).

Blitz Hacker
Minmatar
Kill Em All
Curse Alliance
Posted - 2005.11.21 03:28:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Banana Torres
Originally by: Blitz Hacker

I've been searching the eve forums for some information on attacking convoys; most of it is either out of date; educated guessing/hersey or just plain obsolete/wrong.


This sums up 99% of the posts on these forums quite well.

But I can vouch for the accuracy of your post. I used the information to attack a convoy these evening and it worked just as you stated. Thank you.

Now I have to figure out what to do with the tons of horse manure. Very Happy


<smirk> much obliged :)

Blitz Hacker
Minmatar
Kill Em All
Curse Alliance
Posted - 2005.11.21 03:30:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Astabon
Originally by: Lygos
Open season on Gallente profits doesn't sound so bad.

Do cargo scanners work on them?


AFAIK Yes. I've scanned them, weather or not that's what drops, not sure, I was too scared to attack till now (been Concorded a few times).


I've had a corp mate of mine use a frig.. cargo scan and tag the convoy's while I used a stabber (minmatar cruiser) to kill the convoys off when they were inbound; the loot dropped from convoys is identical to what you scanner picks up; I can vouch for this from first hand experience :)

-Blitz-

Tekka
Caldari
Sneaky Beaver
Posted - 2005.11.21 06:51:00 - [30]
 

I never tried this


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