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blankseplocked Spreadsheet - Damage Computations (beta version b.26b)
 
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Sun Ra
Euphoria Released
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2005.12.22 13:02:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Sun Ra on 22/12/2005 13:01:55
Any chance you can add a feature to show dmg after resistance? have a box for em thm kin exp where we can fill in the resistance value then then you end up having the dps graph showing the damage each gun does against that tank.

Reason for this is cos without resistance the pure dps figures are miss leading imo

Naughty Boy
Chronics of ordinary hate
Posted - 2005.12.23 14:26:00 - [32]
 

New version is out, fixing the drone ROF database error. Drones tracking in general is a bit off because it somehow changed between the last singularity build (used to update the sheet database) and what made it on TQ. With the wasp tracking being currently abnormal, i'll wait a bit to update. Drone tracking can be disabled in the "input" sheet.

Originally by: Sun Ra
Any chance you can add a feature to show dmg after resistance? have a box for em thm kin exp where we can fill in the resistance value then then you end up having the dps graph showing the damage each gun does against that tank.

Reason for this is cos without resistance the pure dps figures are miss leading imo

That doesn't exactly fit into the current model, so if i ever do it it will take some time. I'll think about it, i was planning to add sentry drones/new ammo, improve drone tracking model, and a few other stuffs, so it will be a matter of priorities.

Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.

Naughty Boy
Chronics of ordinary hate
Posted - 2005.12.26 02:11:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Naughty Boy on 26/12/2005 02:21:16
Current version: a.19
See first post for more details.

New version in testing, with two new features:
* Joint stacking of tracking computers and tracking disruptors;
* Effect of resistances in dps calculations (optional);
Download: "In testing" Version: a.21

Known issues specific to this version:
* Missile damage bonuses are not damage-specific currently. A caracal will have a damage bonus for every heavy missile, not only scourge for instance. To be fixed later.

Note:
* Basic stacking of hardeners calculations included.

Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.

Naughty Boy
Chronics of ordinary hate
Posted - 2005.12.27 07:23:00 - [34]
 

New version in testing, adressing the issue with wrong missile damage bonuses
Download: "In testing" Version: a.22

Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.

Sarmaul
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2006.01.04 18:17:00 - [35]
 

you're going to hate me for saying this, but is there any chance you could include the dreadnoughts in this? So we can compare siege mode vs non-siege mode, have 2 seperate entries for each ship (i.e. "Moros" and "Moros Siege").

I would wub you lots for that Wink

Naughty Boy
Chronics of ordinary hate
Posted - 2006.01.04 19:52:00 - [36]
 

I'm looking into that, it will take some time as i haven't tested properly the last features yet.

Next version should include dreads and their weapons, new t2 ships, weapons, drone navigation and sharpshooter skill effect (since tuxford said that the speed bonus affecting orbit velocity was a bug, something i was waiting for to include it into the calculations), a minor correction in missile damage formula (explosion velocity skill effect not affecting torpedoes), and maybe some improvements to the drone flight time related damage reduction/pursuit & tracking formula.

Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.

Naughty Boy
Chronics of ordinary hate
Posted - 2006.01.05 01:23:00 - [37]
 

New test version: a.25

Changes:
* Correction of minor skill issues in drone and missile damage calculation models;
* Introduction of stealth bombers and dreads;

Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.

Sarmaul
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2006.01.12 13:08:00 - [38]
 

thank you for adding the dreads - good to know the nag is still the best vs pos :).

am I missing something, or did you at one point post damage over time graphs on these forums? If so, is it in this spreadsheet or something hiding away on your computer? :)

Naughty Boy
Chronics of ordinary hate
Posted - 2006.01.17 09:38:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Naughty Boy on 17/01/2006 09:39:56
Current version: a.19 (nothing changed here, i know, i should release a tested version but... i'd like to test more before Confused)
See first post for more details.

New version in testing
* Minor database corrections;
* Addition of Command ships, Recon ships, and Interdictors in the database (in testing);
Download: "In testing" Version: a.27

Originally by: Sarmaul
thank you for adding the dreads - good to know the nag is still the best vs pos :).
You're welcome. I somehow managed to miss your post, sorry for the late reply.
Originally by: Sarmaul
am I missing something, or did you at one point post damage over time graphs on these forums? If so, is it in this spreadsheet or something hiding away on your computer? :)
The second sheet displays cumulative damage, which is not really different than the dps. It's the same graph, scaled as the dps is multiplied by the total fight time.

This might change in further versions, as i'll try to add calculations of fight time against a tanked target and allow the sheet to display damage as a function of time for a given range, and not just damage as a function of range after a given fight time. No so sure if it will be soon though.

Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.

LWMaverick
Posted - 2006.01.17 10:11:00 - [40]
 

OMFG

...


WIN!


/Mav

Testy Mctest
Posted - 2006.01.17 10:16:00 - [41]
 

Ive put off downloading this for a while, because I'm in work of a daytime and normally when I'm surfing the net I try to not download anything. I leave it to you guys to post the numbers when I argue about stuff :P

The point of this post is that I've just downloaded the sheet now, and simply, Im stunned at the amount of work that's gone into that sheet.

Stunned.

The Major
Caldari
StateCorp
The State
Posted - 2006.01.26 03:08:00 - [42]
 

Any plans to add Tracking Enhancers to this?


Naughty Boy
Chronics of ordinary hate
Posted - 2006.01.26 12:30:00 - [43]
 

Thanks again for the kind words. Very Happy

Current version: a.19 (still no change there, there's an annoying bug in last test version)

New version in testing
* Some fixing (database errors mostly);
* New option: damage can be shown as a function of fight time for a set range (instead of a function of range for a set fight time). This change brought a new error making the cumulative damage change during reload time (Confused). It's a rather minor issue as values are correct when weapons are not reloading, and will be corrected later;
* Setting/Switch between tracking disruptor and tracking enhancers (boolean): calculations are using tracking enhancers and tracking computers or tracking disruptors and tracking computers (in testing);
Download: "In testing" Version: a.30
Originally by: The Major
Any plans to add Tracking Enhancers to this?

Well, there were no plan to speak of, I just though it was easy to add. As it was not practical to try to stack 3 different kind of mods (tracking computer/enhancer/disruptors), there's an option to stack either enhancers and computers, either computers and disruptors. It could be changed later though I think it's not bad as it is.

File's getting big, I'm planning to get some optimisations for turret damage calculations (it's ugly coding now, in the beginning it wasn't planned to be something else than a quickly made sheet).

Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.

Dash Ripcock
0utbreak
Posted - 2006.01.26 12:49:00 - [44]
 

Excellent work Naughty Boy that really made my day! Of course numbers aren't everything, but they do give you an edge in heated debate!

Khaldorn Murino
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.01.26 13:27:00 - [45]
 

Naughty, forgive me for being a ******, but does the damage calculation factor in the chance to hit of the tracking?

Naughty Boy
Chronics of ordinary hate
Posted - 2006.01.26 13:34:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Khaldorn Murino
Naughty, forgive me for being a ******, but does the damage calculation factor in the chance to hit of the tracking?
Hey, don't say that RazzTechnically, yes, tracking is included in the calculations (though it only becomes a factor when transversal velocity is not equal to zero). The chance to hit is factored into it, though the hit quality isn't. It doesn't make a huge difference but it does make a difference nevertheless. As soon as someone come up with the formula used by EVE to determine hit quality it will be added.

Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.

Khaldorn Murino
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.01.26 13:36:00 - [47]
 

Cool! seriously tho, I must be thick as im getting more DPS off a wolf with lasers than I am off a vengeance with lasers! Embarassed

Nice spreadsheets, im going to have a proper look at them when i get home tonight.

Naughty Boy
Chronics of ordinary hate
Posted - 2006.01.26 14:01:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Khaldorn Murino
Cool! seriously tho, I must be thick as im getting more DPS off a wolf with lasers than I am off a vengeance with lasers!

vengeance has got no damage bonus for lasers and wolf gets one more turret hardpoint, so that sounds as it should... (though optimal should be different, as the vengeance gets an optimal range bonus)

Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.

The Major
Caldari
StateCorp
The State
Posted - 2006.01.26 15:12:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Naughty Boy

Well, there were no plan to speak of, I just though it was easy to add. As it was not practical to try to stack 3 different kind of mods (tracking computer/enhancer/disruptors), there's an option to stack either enhancers and computers, either computers and disruptors. It could be changed later though I think it's not bad as it is.


Methinks the stacking calculations are far easier to apply in real code than in excel. Espechilly when you have a proper Database handy.

Anyway from what I've gathered all bonuses have their actual value calculated in the order from biggest to smallest. This is what has lead to the bugs with various modules like tracking computers Vs Tracking Disruptors as they use the same bonus pool in the DB. They get applied biggest (IE tracking comp which is positive) to smallest (tracking disruptor which is negative).

So if you have 1 tracking comp, 1 tracking enhancer and 1 tracking disruptor on you then you apply the stacking formula in this order:

Range: Enhancer, Computer, Disruptor
Tracking: Computer, Enhancer, Disruptor

I'm not yet aware of the actual formula post RMR (working on it right now though) but this means the Disruptor will get gimped for being the third bonus to affect the same pool which is why they are having so little effect on ships fitted with tracking computers.

Like I said easy in code, you can just sort the DB results and iterate through them and apply the bonuses in a for() loop. Excel = harder.

Naughty Boy
Chronics of ordinary hate
Posted - 2006.01.26 15:25:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Naughty Boy on 26/01/2006 15:33:27
Yes, that's the problem. I tried to keep it simple, all the code was already there for disruptors so i only changed the modifiers. I'll see how to change that later, it's a bit annoying as it is now because it's not very intuitive.

Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.

Khaldorn Murino
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.01.26 15:56:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: Khaldorn Murino on 26/01/2006 15:56:27
Originally by: Naughty Boy
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino
Cool! seriously tho, I must be thick as im getting more DPS off a wolf with lasers than I am off a vengeance with lasers!

vengeance has got no damage bonus for lasers and wolf gets one more turret hardpoint, so that sounds as it should... (though optimal should be different, as the vengeance gets an optimal range bonus)

Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.


Ahh cool. Hell i get better dps with those lasers on my wolf rather than my autocannons. The cap is obviously an issue, coupled with the reduced range - but it might be worth looking into.

Cheers Naughty

EDIT: oh and sticky!

The Major
Caldari
StateCorp
The State
Posted - 2006.01.26 16:30:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: The Major on 26/01/2006 17:24:58
Edited by: The Major on 26/01/2006 16:33:04
I'm not convinced CCP would use a seemingly random number with 8 floating points as a constant in stacking. I have however come really close by using the universal constant...

(1/p)^(SQRT(p/42))

Where p = The Bonuses position in the bonus pool stack.

Gives you a nice root curve where the significance of the bonus is severely diminished after the 4th bonus. The numbers for the second and third bonus are actually slightly higher than on TQ right now. Problem is that only works if you assume all bonuses have the same base value and you are infact multiplying by the final value of the PREVIOUS bonus in the stack. Wouldn't work for mixed bonii as we have now.

EDIT:
I like this formula for a stacking penalty even though it's not quite right (the curve isn't harsh enough).

b/(p^(p/SQRT(42)))

Where b = the previous stacking muliplier in the bonus stack and p = the current position in the bonus stack.

Any bonus past the sixth one can be almost completely ignored, 7 and 8 might as well equate to 0.


Ocean Soul
Caldari
Malevolent Intentions
Posted - 2006.01.26 17:39:00 - [53]
 

Im very impressed, it is most useful. But i was wondering if in the next version you would put Stealth Bombers in there too please.

Nice work

Tsual
Minmatar
Posted - 2006.01.26 18:06:00 - [54]
 

Can anyone explain what the basic damage in ammo info means? And how it compares to the specific damage types?

F4ze
Gallente
D00M.
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2006.01.27 11:44:00 - [55]
 

I am very curious what funcions of Excell you use to make those select boxes with data from another sheet?

Nival
Confederation of Red Moon
Posted - 2006.01.27 12:03:00 - [56]
 

This thing is worth its virtual weight in gold. Many thanks for putting all the hard work in and making this Naughty Boy!

Naughty Boy
Chronics of ordinary hate
Posted - 2006.01.27 15:44:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: Naughty Boy on 27/01/2006 15:52:40
Originally by: Ocean Soul
Im very impressed, it is most useful. But i was wondering if in the next version you would put Stealth Bombers in there too please.
Stealth bombers are in the last test versions (a.27 and a.30 are available on eve-files). There was very little testing done, so there might be something wrong with the "hidden" bonus. Also, there is a lil' lack of code and in the spreadsheet, siege launchers will probably (I can't remember right now) also use the "hidden" explosion radius bonus (which they shouldn't). If you find something wrong/unexpected, you can report it here and i'll have a look.
Originally by: Tsual
Can anyone explain what the basic damage in ammo info means? And how it compares to the specific damage types?
You might want to check a post of Sarmaul. It's linked in the sticky.
In very short: the ammo base damage is divided into a base damage for each damage type. The damage done against an unhardened target is the sum of the 4 base damages, multiplied by the damage modifier of the gun after skills and effects of modules ("damage mods"). Against an hardened target, damage done is the sum of the base damage * (1-resistance to the damage type) * damage modifier of the gun.
Originally by: F4ze
I am very curious what funcions of Excell you use to make those select boxes with data from another sheet?
There are 3 columns under the graph of the first sheet, so the "select boxes" are linked inside the very same sheet. I don't really know much about this, Rivek proposed to use the validation function to handle errors and it works fine for the task, the columns were already there before I started using the function so I only noticed later that there was no straightforward way to link to another sheet (at least, I didn't find any, and would certainly use it if I knew).
Originally by: Nival
This thing is worth its virtual weight in gold. Many thanks for putting all the hard work in and making this Naughty Boy!
Thanks Very Happy. I have to say it's easier with Jide's object explorer and Chribba's server to host the files...

Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.

The Major
Caldari
StateCorp
The State
Posted - 2006.01.27 19:46:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Naughty Boy
There are 3 columns under the graph of the first sheet, so the "select boxes" are linked inside the very same sheet. I don't really know much about this, Rivek proposed to use the validation function to handle errors and it works fine for the task, the columns were already there before I started using the function so I only noticed later that there was no straightforward way to link to another sheet (at least, I didn't find any, and would certainly use it if I knew).


Select the fields you want to use as a data validation source. Now inthe top-left of the screen there is a text entry box (just to the left of where you input formulas and values) . This is the name of the cell range you have selected (it will look like A1:C1 or similar at the moment). Click inhere and type a name for the cell range like ShipNames.

When you use the list option in data validation you can now just type in the source as =ShipNames and it will use that cellrange even if it's in another sheet in the workbook.

To edit an already existing named cellrange to include more or less cells goto Insert -> Define -> Names. You can then change the name of the range and what cells it actually encompasses.

Naughty Boy
Chronics of ordinary hate
Posted - 2006.01.27 20:10:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: Naughty Boy on 27/01/2006 20:14:25
Thank you for reminding me, I'll have a look at it. I knew about the ability to name ranges, tried it shortly but it didn't seem to work correctly at that time: I could still input a content that wasn't in the list, so it was pointless. I gave up rather fast (then forget about it), but I'll try again as I don't like the current system. So, that's added to the "to do" list Very Happy.

Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.

Sun Ra
Euphoria Released
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2006.02.01 10:44:00 - [60]
 

a30 has a slight bug, the 4th ship always shows as a tempest on the graph


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