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blankseplocked "Large Macrominer Account Closing"
 
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Amthrianius
Keiretsu
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.11.12 01:57:00 - [1]
 

Every 6 months or so we see one of these by GM Arkanon, doing a big closing of macro miners accumulated after a long period of time at once.

Doesnt that seem a tad silly? Why wait months to close macromining accounts? By the time the "swoop" happens they have made their money and no doubt had an adverse affect on the eve economu. Surely the sensible thing to do is close them as soon as you discover they are macroers instead of deliberatly waiting to do a PR stunt.

I don't know about you but when a macroer is discovered and confirmed to be one by a GM i dont want to see it in jita still for the next few weeks/months until the next PR stunt. Constant policing and prosecuting is the only way imo.

Anyway opinions? ugh

SengH
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2005.11.12 01:59:00 - [2]
 

I dont know maybe CCP uses the data from each macroer to trace them to find the source origin / ISP / proxy that they are using the circumvent an old IP block. Then gains more conclusive data on how to block them all conclusively which could range up to banning an entire ISP range or proxy range.

Dakath
Posted - 2005.11.12 02:04:00 - [3]
 

Beats me as to CCP's methods.

I would like to see a 'Name And Shame" list of banned cheaters.

CCP keeps saying that it's a privacy issue that keeps them from doing the name and shame.

I don't buy this at all. Ingame names are not real-life names. A list of banned macro-rats would be good for the morale of honest players. Cool

Maya Rkell
Third Grade Ergonomics
Posted - 2005.11.12 02:10:00 - [4]
 

There are legal issues involved, and online names can often be tracked back to real names. (it is "personally identifying data")

Deja Thoris
Invicta.
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2005.11.12 02:14:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Maya Rkell
There are legal issues involved, and online names can often be tracked back to real names. (it is "personally identifying data")


Yeah, I know lots of people called xzpsjr37 in RL.

I agree totally with the OP.

Dakath
Posted - 2005.11.12 02:21:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Maya Rkell
There are legal issues involved, and online names can often be tracked back to real names. (it is "personally identifying data")


OK. I get it now.

CCP's lawyers pointed the attack-shark at them and they caved. Sad

Coconut Joe
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2005.11.12 02:21:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Maya Rkell
There are legal issues involved, and online names can often be tracked back to real names. (it is "personally identifying data")


Rubbish.

Shirei
Minmatar
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2005.11.12 02:24:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Amthrianius
Every 6 months or so we see one of these by GM Arkanon, doing a big closing of macro miners accumulated after a long period of time at once.

Doesnt that seem a tad silly? Why wait months to close macromining accounts? By the time the "swoop" happens they have made their money and no doubt had an adverse affect on the eve economu. Surely the sensible thing to do is close them as soon as you discover they are macroers instead of deliberatly waiting to do a PR stunt.


You do the maths.. What is more profitable? Closing accounts as soon as you figure out they are macroers or waiting for a few months (read $$$) and then closing all accounts associated with their players?

Gonada
The Scope
Posted - 2005.11.12 02:26:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Gonada on 12/11/2005 02:27:02
actually joe shmoe, its fairly easy to identify a persons real life info by using a reverse dns to first ID the proxy that the user is using( location, provider ect, ), then follow up by piggybacking tracehuggers(what I call em) to see all activity of the user in question.

its inevitable that youll find the info out, unless hes a smart cat and employ a masking program.

Aleis
Minmatar
Playboy Enterprises
Dark Taboo
Posted - 2005.11.12 02:30:00 - [10]
 

closing accounts means CCP has to positivly identify that the person really is macroing, even though some other player beleaves they are. which takes time. Time meaning not working on fixing hardware, softwere issues, or continuing development on further cool stuff. Theres a lot of things I'd love to see happen NOW!!!!!!!! but i'm realistic and quite pleased with the work CCP has done, At least they actualy do something which many games are afraid of.

Vlodec
Amarr
Clydec Universal Enterprises
Posted - 2005.11.12 19:17:00 - [11]
 

Very VERY interesting thread guys. I've noticed a couple of groups in the system I usually grace with my presence. There's generally 4 or 5 in each group. They have BS's and a heavy duty hauler in spite of their short time here. Their names indicate a naming system rather than self-expression, fantasy or what-have-you, and they spend a lot of time mining. Prior to this thread I just imagined they had money to burn on game accounts. The macro/eBay thing never occurred to me. I'll be watdhing out for them in future. Thx........

Posmart
Posted - 2005.11.12 20:25:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Posmart on 12/11/2005 20:34:21
You do the maths.. What is more profitable? Closing accounts as soon as you figure out they are macroers or waiting for a few months (read $$$) and then closing all accounts associated with their players?


I did the maths, so did CCP. Rock bottom low-end mineral prices will drive more new players away from the game than any amount of rubbish macro accounts could possibly compensate for.


In any case, CCP hate macroers for the same reason we do - macroers are not players, therefore they contribute nothing to the game. And in any case a few macroer subs mean nothing to the long-term bottom line.

Macroers are like cancer, you need to get them early and often.

EDIT: (my point is not clear) - I just mean trust CCP, they are doing surgery here, it's tricky and takes time.

Happy Rotter
Posted - 2005.11.12 20:26:00 - [13]
 

I'm also shocked at how slowly CCP seems to be reacting to these things. Farming ingame money for out of game cash has become quite an industry and these people can only be discouraged with swift and hard action. Once they see no more profit they will give up.

On the other hand it's US, the players, who encourage this farming by buying ISK. So if you know people who have bought ISK, let them know how you feel about it. No demand, no supply.

As a last point, I'm pretty sure it's not the Devs who are spending time doing these investigations, so the earlier remark about bug fixing / game improvement getting slacked is quite void.

sonofollo
Caldari
Doomheim
Posted - 2005.11.12 20:34:00 - [14]
 

well a) the can theif shooting feature will help a lot plop a can in front of em wait for em to pick it up then blast em to kingdom come
b) once they get the ability to war dec on a single player (ie limited bountry contract) perhaps with a cost of 10m ISK a day to do. Then u will be hopefully able to issue a war dec - bounty contract on NPC characters as well - then simply find em and attack em

Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
The Firm.
Posted - 2005.11.12 20:34:00 - [15]
 

By the time they are in cruisers, it's too late. Simple as that.

Maya Rkell
Third Grade Ergonomics
Posted - 2005.11.12 20:41:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Coconut Joe
Originally by: Maya Rkell
There are legal issues involved, and online names can often be tracked back to real names. (it is "personally identifying data")


Rubbish.


That's nice - the concensus of legal experts is most certainly against you. The right to a private life in Europe DOES cover online identities, for example, where there might be a reasonable chance of connecting those identities to the real person.

The safer path, given one might be connectable, is not to reveal.

Oh, and the can thief thing is just gonna be a grief tool :/
ESPECIALLY if cloaked ships don't appear in local.

Ankanos
Caldari
Posted - 2005.11.12 20:42:00 - [17]
 

well fwiw: of the 30-40 macro miners i have reported, it takes
ccp about 3.5 - 4.5 weeks before i no longer see them log in...

considering the amount of macroers and the amount of staff
ccp has working on them (prolly less than 150) i'd say thats a
decent turn around time. esp since they have to monitor the
situation to make sure they are not in error, or the person
petionining is just being a twit..

in the mean time, i help the macro's haul their ore. lord knows they are always
overworked... its the least i can do... :)

-ank

( i have noticed now that macroers are getting smarter.. now they use
maybe one BS and 1 or 2 medium barges or a ferox etc.. lots a variation
in ships now.. rarely see a normal 3x BS x 2 groups in a belt now)


Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
The Firm.
Posted - 2005.11.12 20:48:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 12/11/2005 20:48:43

Yeah, I saw groups consisting of Apoc, Prophecy and Iterons. The n00bl4r x001 names are a bit of a give-away, frankly. Always petition them, steal their ore if you can be bothered, but it still hurts to see them exploiting the economy.

Saeris Tal'Urduar
Amarr
Posted - 2005.11.12 22:11:00 - [19]
 

I'm sure I seen somewhere they are banning account all the time.
That "Big One" was a sting.
I'm positive they dont do them in batches.

Tauruz
Posted - 2005.11.12 23:34:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Dakath
Beats me as to CCP's methods.

I would like to see a 'Name And Shame" list of banned cheaters.

CCP keeps saying that it's a privacy issue that keeps them from doing the name and shame.

I don't buy this at all. Ingame names are not real-life names. A list of banned macro-rats would be good for the morale of honest players. Cool


Sample list of banned "macro-rats"...

yuyweqwue
dsaadsad
asdedqw
qweqweqw
asffasa
joe332
joe333
joe334
joe335
9923jjj
232jkkl
322323j
k23kk233

(names chosen by random keypress, any similarity to existing eve players is purely coincidental!)


Malthros Zenobia
Posted - 2005.11.12 23:57:00 - [21]
 

I really think that RMR is going to pretty much kill off macroing... until the macroers learn how to program. Then they'll just get a banstick to the face.

High Sierra
Minmatar
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2005.11.13 12:29:00 - [22]
 

simple solution:

if a character is confirmed as a macro miner set their standings to everyone as -10, their sec rating to -10 and everyone is allowed to war dec them for free.

part of the problem is that we as a community cannot do anything about the macro miners cos they sit in npc corps so we cant touch them.

now i am not saying we should be allowed to war dec noob corps. what I am saying is that those characters alone should be war dec'ed.

that way ccp can get on with sorting the bugs out and we can deal with the macro miners. incidentally it also means ccp dont have to worry about banning them cos they'll just leave anyway if they cant undock cos they keep getting podded.


Plutoinum
Mercenaries of Andosia
Veritas Immortalis
Posted - 2005.11.13 13:01:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Plutoinum on 13/11/2005 13:03:15
Edited by: Plutoinum on 13/11/2005 13:00:50
Increase the complexity of mining so that it can't be done with simple clicks anymore. If players have to respond to some visual stuff with a proper mouse / keyboard reaction to start a mining cycle e.g. without damaging their equipment, then people couldn't use common macro programs.

It would involve knowledge of image processing to start macro'ing again and the people who are able and willing to program that are not very common.
So finally 1 or 2 people would do that anyway and write some cheat software. If they publish their cheat tool, ccp will get to know that, too. So CCP writes a detection routine for the client, updates it from time or implements something that they can stream thes updates to your client without a major patch, e.g. like the other stuff in the Cache directory that you get while logging in or so.
Then everyone who uses that tool gets banned immediately.

=> If it stops 95% of the macro mining activity, problem solved I'd say. Cool

Nuala Reece
Caldari
TROJAN LEGIONS
TROJAN.
Posted - 2005.11.13 13:30:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Amthrianius
I don't know about you but when a macroer is discovered and confirmed to be one by a GM i dont want to see it in jita still for the next few weeks/months until the next PR stunt. Constant policing and prosecuting is the only way imo.

Anyway opinions? ugh


Something to do with them not looking for individuals who are macroing but for organised operations running multiple accounts who are actively farming the game? Identifying one group of macroing accounts would be a first step, but I guess they'd then take time to see if there were any other accounts paid on the same card. Then they'd have to investigate those to to determine if they were also macro mining.

If you've got one guy with 30 accounts all farming and you ban 4 of those accounts he's still making cash from the others - so the overall dent in his business is pretty minimal. But if you can identify all 30 and shut them down at once it's going to take him much longer to start the operation up from scratch again - it'd have a much more serious impact on his profit making for a longer space of time. I guess the hope would be that this would be a big enough issue that he'd move to farming a different game rather than spending the time trying to build the operation back up in eve.

Nac MacFeegle
Argyll Manufacturing
Posted - 2005.11.14 12:25:00 - [25]
 

As a miner by trade, I want to see all the little bastards burn...

What I would like is some clarification as to how to report suspected macrominers. I'm never sure if it should go under 'exploit' or 'other'... shame there isn't a 'macroing' petition option.


Weirdest thing, the other day... saw a group that had most of the hallmarks of a macrominer group... newbie corp, under 30 days old, two in Retreivers and one in a Mammoth, with a jet can named '000'. The only thing was that they had 'real' names ('Usher' and 'Maxweller' I believe were two of them). I convo'd one of them, not expecting any response... I got one, in Chinese.

Didn't petition them, decided to give the benefit of the doubt. Either it wasn't an isk-selling outfit, or they're getting clever and/or more attentive.

Traxio Nacho
Dark Knights of Deneb
Posted - 2005.11.14 12:35:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Nac MacFeegle
As a miner by trade, I want to see all the little bastards burn...

What I would like is some clarification as to how to report suspected macrominers. I'm never sure if it should go under 'exploit' or 'other'... shame there isn't a 'macroing' petition option.


Weirdest thing, the other day... saw a group that had most of the hallmarks of a macrominer group... newbie corp, under 30 days old, two in Retreivers and one in a Mammoth, with a jet can named '000'. The only thing was that they had 'real' names ('Usher' and 'Maxweller' I believe were two of them). I convo'd one of them, not expecting any response... I got one, in Chinese.

Didn't petition them, decided to give the benefit of the doubt. Either it wasn't an isk-selling outfit, or they're getting clever and/or more attentive.



You petetion it under exploit, I did notice some of the macros the other day getting alittle more clever, 2 were in npc corps and 1 in a player corp, however the 2 were once in the same corp as the other player, making it look like they weren't just macro miners.

I didn't petetion them as i wasnt sure but later i was told they are always mining 24/7 and looking at them they did act like macros miners.

Dr Slaughter
Minmatar
Coreli Corporation
Naraka.
Posted - 2005.11.14 12:35:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Amthrianius
Every 6 months or so we see one of these by GM Arkanon, doing a big closing of macro miners accumulated after a long period of time at once.

Doesnt that seem a tad silly? Why wait months to close macromining accounts? By the time the "swoop" happens they have made their money and no doubt had an adverse affect on the eve economu. Surely the sensible thing to do is close them as soon as you discover they are macroers instead of deliberatly waiting to do a PR stunt.

I don't know about you but when a macroer is discovered and confirmed to be one by a GM i dont want to see it in jita still for the next few weeks/months until the next PR stunt. Constant policing and prosecuting is the only way imo.

Anyway opinions? ugh

Not sure about [i]silly[i] but it seems unlikely it should take more than a few days to identify 23x7 marco abuse.

It's a shame they can't secure the mouse and keyboard drivers to stop the macro's getting their hooks in the first place.


 

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