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Bel Arvandan
Posted - 2009.06.25 13:28:00 - [331]
 

Originally by: Chathe
To upgrade from +4's to +5's it takes ~ 323 days of training to recover the time to train cyber 5 ( assuming primary and secondary both have +5's and you've got learning 5 ).


hi all, I was just trying to work out if this was true and found I came out with different figures. This is what I believe.

Going from +4's to +5's requires going from cybernetics lvl IV to lvl V. Since cybernetics is a rank 3 skill, you need to train 256k*3 - 45.255k*3 = 632235 more skill points.

Now to work out the pay back time, I say that every skill now trains an extra 1.65 skill points per minute (with learning at V and both primary and seconary with +5's plugged in).

So we simply divide 632235 by 1.65 and this gives us the number of minutes to break even. So,

383172 minutes
6386 hours
266 days

So a good 57 days better than your estimate, which I now see is from training cybernectics from lvl 0 to lvl V, but this is misleading as the gain is just from +4's to +5's NOT no implants to +5's (which would pay back in 64 days btw). Sorry for being a stickler and all, but those little things bug me, yes i know it's a little sad ;-), thx

p.s. first post, so greetings everyone

Vinsurith Morteth
Posted - 2009.06.26 19:28:00 - [332]
 

This may be lame to some but I'm new and other newbies will understand. Skill Points and Attributes determine how fast I progress through the Training Que, right? Then what determines how many Skill Points and how fast I aquire them?

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.06.26 20:16:00 - [333]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 26/06/2009 20:23:11
Originally by: Vinsurith Morteth
This may be lame to some but I'm new and other newbies will understand. Skill Points and Attributes determine how fast I progress through the Training Que, right? Then what determines how many Skill Points and how fast I aquire them?

SP/hour (or per minute, or per month, or whatever you prefer) gains determine how fast you progress through your skills/skillqueue.

Effective attribute values determine SP/hour gains (+60 SP/hour for each full point in a primary attribute, +30 SP/hour for each full secondary attribute, value of effective attribute is NOT rounded, every fractional attribute point also matters).

Effective attributes are your base attributes (those you can remap) plus any appliable learning skill and implant bonuses (at the maximum possible, +15 total from L5 basic, L5 advanced learning skilltree attribute boosting skills and 5 point implants, and then multiplied by 1.1 from L5 learning).

The sum of all base attributes (and absolute minimum you can ever have) is 39.
At a maximum, the sum of all effective attributes is (39+6*15)*1.1 = 141.9 total.
The absolut minimum attribute you can get on a new character nowadays is 5 (minimum of 5 base, no learnings, no implants), absolute maximum is 33 (maximum of 15 base + 15 bonus all *1.1).

Tahm Leukas
Posted - 2009.06.27 19:37:00 - [334]
 

Originally by: Skie Inurian
Some discussion on the forums has made me revise the weightings slightly. I think perhaps the priority given to int and mem in the chart above is perhaps too high. Here is the top-10 with slightly different weightings. I used 1.2 for mem, 1.1 for int, 1.1 per, 1.0 for will and 0.8 for charisma.

1 Caldari Achura Stargazers
2 Caldari Achura Inventors
3 Caldari Achura Monks
4 Caldari Deteis Merchandisers
5 Gallente Intaki Reborn
6 Amarr Amarr Wealthy Commoners
7 Caldari Deteis Scientists
8 Caldari Civire Entrepeneurs
9 Amarr Amarr Religious Reclaimers
10 Minmatar Brutor Workers


Those Achura feature highly in all lists!



Is this list still accurate with the way the game is now?

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.06.27 20:06:00 - [335]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 27/06/2009 20:06:23
Originally by: Tahm Leukas
Is this list still accurate with the way the game is now?

Race and bloodline is irrelevant attributes-wise nowadays.
Everybody starts with 8/8/8/8/7cha and MINIMAL skillpoints (below 50k).

Tahm Leukas
Posted - 2009.06.27 20:48:00 - [336]
 

Thanks, I thought so. That will make character creation much easier as I won't need to crosstrain now.

Tripoli
XenTech
Posted - 2009.07.14 05:12:00 - [337]
 

Edited by: Tripoli on 14/07/2009 05:13:37

It's been a couple years, but I've finally updated this guide again. While it is certainly not all-inclusive, I believe you will still find it very useful, especially the updated skill training order for the learning skills.

Of course, you can always find this thread by referencing the Resource thread at the top of the Skills forum.

Shazzaa
Posted - 2009.07.26 11:20:00 - [338]
 

Would it be quicker to start training on Eidetic Memory before Instant Recall was at lvl 5? It seems to me that the extra Memory points that are gained quicker from the lvl 1, 2, 3 Eidetic Memory skill would let you train Instant Recall lvl 5 quicker..??

Tripoli
XenTech
Posted - 2009.07.26 17:51:00 - [339]
 

I think you may have misread that post. What you suggest is exactly what I have.

K'rak
Posted - 2009.07.27 21:42:00 - [340]
 

Nice post Tripoli, thanks for putting this together. Very Happy

Khanik Khan
Posted - 2009.07.30 20:47:00 - [341]
 

Since every race now has the same attributes, what is the best attribute spread to have for gunnery/spaceship command/drones?

Tripoli
XenTech
Posted - 2009.07.31 22:01:00 - [342]
 

I'd recommend Perception be your highest, with balanced attributes between Willpower, Intelligence, and Memory.

Kelleous
Posted - 2009.08.10 23:42:00 - [343]
 

Only had the game a few days now. But... after reading all this, not much here applies to NEW players.

Why? Well, it is recommended to train the advanced learning skills (4.5 million each) AND buy +3 Cybernetics upgrades. Those are roughly 15-20 million apeice.

While it all sounds like nothing to a veteran player. That kind of money for a new character takes some time... as we HAVE to train basic stuff to get out of training...

I think a thread like this is very useful... but, there needs to be a thread like this that would apply to a new player. And such information would be something like recommendations on the first weeks worth of training to get you into using a descently equipped spaceship...

I mean, if you have the luxury of creating a new character and spend 100 million ISK on skills and implants... and crank his training on, and go back to playing your main... well, that's nice and all for the Vet players.
Not very helpful info for the Noobs though. Wink

I bought all 6 basic learning skills and have them trained to 3 now. Going to work on training some skills "so I can actually play" and make some money. Then I'll get around to leveling them to 4....
I guess I'll probably be able to afford to buy 1 advanced learning skill per week (I can make about 1 million ISK a day right now - If I play pretty hard. I know that aint much, but it's hard to come by being a total rookie.).

Good information though. I'll eventually get around to getting all that trained.

Oh, and those Numbers you guys have been throwing around in this thread...? WAY too much information for me.. Laughing

I'll stick with just training and playing. I'll let the game take care of all the number crunching. hehe

Flinchey
Amarr
Posted - 2009.08.12 03:01:00 - [344]
 

Originally by: Kelleous
Only had the game a few days now. But... after reading all this, not much here applies to NEW players.

Why? Well, it is recommended to train the advanced learning skills (4.5 million each) AND buy +3 Cybernetics upgrades. Those are roughly 15-20 million apeice.

While it all sounds like nothing to a veteran player. That kind of money for a new character takes some time... as we HAVE to train basic stuff to get out of training...

I think a thread like this is very useful... but, there needs to be a thread like this that would apply to a new player. And such information would be something like recommendations on the first weeks worth of training to get you into using a descently equipped spaceship...

I mean, if you have the luxury of creating a new character and spend 100 million ISK on skills and implants... and crank his training on, and go back to playing your main... well, that's nice and all for the Vet players.
Not very helpful info for the Noobs though. Wink

I bought all 6 basic learning skills and have them trained to 3 now. Going to work on training some skills "so I can actually play" and make some money. Then I'll get around to leveling them to 4....
I guess I'll probably be able to afford to buy 1 advanced learning skill per week (I can make about 1 million ISK a day right now - If I play pretty hard. I know that aint much, but it's hard to come by being a total rookie.).

Good information though. I'll eventually get around to getting all that trained.

Oh, and those Numbers you guys have been throwing around in this thread...? WAY too much information for me.. Laughing

I'll stick with just training and playing. I'll let the game take care of all the number crunching. hehe


no, +4's are ~20m a piece, 3's are about 13m. and i remember i've had +3's since very early on
not to mention, you get them for running level 3 storyline mssions, easy for a newer player.

also, even as a total noob, you should be able to make 1million isk PER HOUR (mining or level 1 missions, level 2 missions achievable within a day or 2). my friend who just started is doing that with ease.

level 3 missions can probably be reached within a few days, and run with relative ease too, if you head straight for a cruiser, then battlecruiser, and if you want to head for l4's... battleship again straight after that (so anothe r1-2 months to run level 4's)

Gabebrel
Posted - 2009.08.12 23:13:00 - [345]
 

Tripoli has gone through a lot of trouble to figure out all the skill points and how to calculate needed time for skills. the one thing he wasn't sure of in his equations is the seconds and being able to be dead on. I think I can help him with this problem as his equations will spit out a number in the end in seconds. If you then Convert that number Into minutes then into hours then into days if need be. By taking your second number and divide it by 60 for minutes then by 60 for hours then 24 for days. Then take and stop at the days and take whole number off if you have one. That will give you days. take the number after the whole number and multiply it by 24 to go down to hours take any whole number there and you have hours spot then take and multiply anything under a whole number and multiply it by 60 to get minutes. Now take the number behind that and multiply it one last time by 60 and you'll have your seconds and you round up or down according to the math of under 4 down 5 and over up and you'll get the exact seconds every time. Its long and drawn out but I am sure this is how you get exactly what eve gets.Very Happy

WhiteRing
Posted - 2009.08.12 23:22:00 - [346]
 

What are the best base attributes to train the lvl 5 learning skill list?

Kunsaka
Caldari
LDK
Zenith Affinity
Posted - 2009.08.18 07:54:00 - [347]
 

Originally by: WhiteRing
What are the best base attributes to train the lvl 5 learning skill list?


probably : get glasses and read forum.

Tripoli
XenTech
Posted - 2009.08.19 02:57:00 - [348]
 

Originally by: Gabebrel
Tripoli has gone through a lot of trouble to figure out all the skill points and how to calculate needed time for skills. the one thing he wasn't sure of in his equations is the seconds and being able to be dead on. I think I can help him with this problem as his equations will spit out a number in the end in seconds. If you then Convert that number Into minutes then into hours then into days if need be. By taking your second number and divide it by 60 for minutes then by 60 for hours then 24 for days. Then take and stop at the days and take whole number off if you have one. That will give you days. take the number after the whole number and multiply it by 24 to go down to hours take any whole number there and you have hours spot then take and multiply anything under a whole number and multiply it by 60 to get minutes. Now take the number behind that and multiply it one last time by 60 and you'll have your seconds and you round up or down according to the math of under 4 down 5 and over up and you'll get the exact seconds every time. Its long and drawn out but I am sure this is how you get exactly what eve gets.Very Happy
I'm quite familiar with how to properly round the calculation and then convert it to seconds, leaving off the minutes, hours, etc. Probably the longest formula I have in my personal skills spreadsheet calculates the seconds of time remaining to train every skill in the game to level 5, while excluding the minutes, hours, days, and years.

=ROUNDDOWN((SUM($R10:$R430)*24*60*60+SUM($S10:$S430)*60*60+SUM($T10:$T430)*60+SUM($U10:$U430)),0)-((Q2*365*24*60*60)+(R2*24*60*60)+(S2*60*60)+(T2*60))

The current result is 7 seconds. Total time is 15 years 160 days 10 hours 21 minutes and 7 seconds.

Steve Thomas
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.08.19 05:37:00 - [349]
 

Originally by: Tripoli
Originally by: Gabebrel
Very Happy
The current result is 7 seconds. Total time is 15 years 160 days 10 hours 21 minutes and 7 seconds.
GAAAH they better hurry up and come up with more skills for you to train!

Yahweh Graf
Posted - 2009.08.19 06:10:00 - [350]
 

while not everyone is like you and trying to train useless skills i'm sure the guide has good info., though i have not or plan on reading it. imo it's really not rocket sciene that requires a guide. you want to fly a ship or shoot a gun you train those skills, walla.
btw, what are you going to train when eve is no more?

Tripoli
XenTech
Posted - 2009.08.19 21:59:00 - [351]
 

Edited by: Tripoli on 19/08/2009 22:00:38
Originally by: Yahweh Graf
imo it's really not rocket sciene that requires a guide.
My guides are more along the lines of how skills work, more so than what you should train. You may notice I'm not the type who usually responds to the, "Help me with my skill plan" threads.
Originally by: Yahweh Graf
btw, what are you going to train when eve is no more?
Same stuff I do when I'm not playing eve, I'm sure. (I really don't play that much these days.) I work in an auction house for a living, and my hobbies include guns, cars, working out, and salt water fish tanks. Plenty to keep me occupied. Cool

Steve Thomas
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.08.22 15:49:00 - [352]
 

OMG! HE HAS A LIFE!

JK

SCORPY
Posted - 2009.08.22 17:16:00 - [353]
 

Edited by: SCORPY on 22/08/2009 17:16:10
Thanks for all your hard work man. YARRRR!!

Arresi
Amarr
GTE Limited
Posted - 2009.09.04 05:47:00 - [354]
 

So someone please do the math for me (because I don't really know how this works):

I read that to train all the learning skills to level 5 it would take 53 days.
How long will it take to train them only to level 4?

Also how much faster do a character with all learning skill at level 5 train a particular skill (any of them) compared to a character with no learning skills?

Same question as above except the first character only has up to level 4 learning skill.

Thanks.

Metalcali
Posted - 2009.09.04 06:40:00 - [355]
 

Originally by: Arresi
So someone please do the math for me (because I don't really know how this works):

I read that to train all the learning skills to level 5 it would take 53 days.
How long will it take to train them only to level 4?

Also how much faster do a character with all learning skill at level 5 train a particular skill (any of them) compared to a character with no learning skills?

Same question as above except the first character only has up to level 4 learning skill.

Thanks.


Everything you ask can be done in an application called EVEmon. Google it really fast and the first link will let you download this program. Toss in your LIMITED api info into the program and you can plan out your skills and see the numbers you are looking for as well.

SIR PRIME
Minmatar
FireStar Inc
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.10.04 11:12:00 - [356]
 

On the updated skill plan at what point are you respeccing attributes and when does your 1.6m sp period end?

Haven't created a new character in years so its all new to me again. ;)

Tripoli
XenTech
Posted - 2009.10.05 19:16:00 - [357]
 

I decided not to include the respec in my learning skill plan. I don't believe it's worth wasting a respec on a 5,376,000 skill point training plan. Likewise, I didn't include the 1.6 million SP training speed reduction because I don't believe it's in most players' interest to train all the learning skills right after creation.

Redcat Radjirn
Posted - 2009.10.06 13:32:00 - [358]
 

prob mentioned many times over, but thank you Tripoli! aprox 4day savings on your plan compared to evemon!

Gorongo Frostfyr
Shimohi Heavy Industries
Posted - 2009.10.18 17:35:00 - [359]
 

Edited by: Gorongo Frostfyr on 18/10/2009 17:35:16
made this for a friend of mine, should fit into the 1,6kk skillbonus-time

1. Cybernetics 1
2. Plug in +1 or +2 Implants, maybe you've got some cash from friends.
---------------------------
3. Instant Recall 1
4. Analytical Mind 1
5. Learning 1
6. Instant Recall 2
7. Analytical Mind 2
8. Learning 2
9. Instant Recall 3
10. Analytical Mind 3
11. Learning 3
12. Instant Recall 4
13. Eidetic Memory 1
14. Eidetic Memory 2
15. Eidetic Memory 3
16. Analytical Mind 4
17. Logic 1
18. Logic 2
19. Logic 3
20. Learning 4
21. Eidetic Memory 4
22. Logic 4
23. Instant Recall 5
24. Analytical Mind 5
25. Learning 5
26. Iron Will 1*
27. Spatial Awareness 1*
28. Empathy 1*
29. Iron Will 2*
30. Spatial Awareness 2*
31. Empathy 2*
32. Iron Will 3*
33. Spatial Awareness 3*
34. Empathy 3*
35. Iron Will 4*
36. Spatial Awareness 4*
37. Empathy 4*
38. Iron Will 5*
39. Spatial Awareness 5*
40. Empathy 5*
* Order doesn't matter.
41. Focus 1
42. Clarity 1
43. Presence 1
44. Focus 2
45. Clarity 2
46. Presence 2
47. Focus 3
48. Clarity 3
49. Presence 3
50. Focus 4
51. Clarity 4
52. Presence 4

Corpral Klinger
Posted - 2009.10.24 22:46:00 - [360]
 

Best thing i can tell you new players is to get evemon, then add all of the skills to the plan, it optimizes your training times, and when you add implants in the mix, this time will lessen once you update your character information in evemon.

But this is an accurate guide for the most part, i'm just giving a simple solution for getting the skills right rather than have to find this guide every time you want to learn a new skill. Cool


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