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Nafri
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2005.11.09 13:40:00 - [631]
 

Originally by: DB Preacher
Originally by: DB Breacher
They don't call him SmackBalls for nothin.Twisted Evil


Must be quite dissapointing to have such little imagination.

dbp


but you still look hotter Embarassed

WhiteSnake
Amarr
Spricer
Raiden.
Posted - 2005.11.09 13:57:00 - [632]
 

So the sum so far is

PA=blob=drones=lag

while R.I.S.K. : covert op warp in point=warp at 120+km=snipe one bs=warp out (average time of engagement 30 secs), wait in a safe spot, repeat.

this is the 99% of all engagments, of risk umber fight tactics.
Can you blame PA if they use lag (I dont say they do, you say that we use lag) to keep you in battlefield more than 30 secs? Be honest and give us an answer, how many times you had a decent fleet engagement and how many times did you use the 30 sec tactic?

Schroni
Minmatar
PPN United
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2005.11.09 14:10:00 - [633]
 

Originally by: WhiteSnake
So the sum so far is

PA=blob=drones=lag

while R.I.S.K. : covert op warp in point=warp at 120+km=snipe one bs=warp out (average time of engagement 30 secs), wait in a safe spot, repeat.

this is the 99% of all engagments, of risk umber fight tactics.
Can you blame PA if they use lag (I dont say they do, you say that we use lag) to keep you in battlefield more than 30 secs? Be honest and give us an answer, how many times you had a decent fleet engagement and how many times did you use the 30 sec tactic?


but wouldn't you agree that using a valid in-game tactic (creating warp in points and popping your support) might be A BIT different then artifically creating lag with usign drones? Rolling Eyes

think about it....

LcGhK9
Caldari
Doomheim
Posted - 2005.11.09 14:24:00 - [634]
 

Edited by: LcGhK9 on 09/11/2005 14:24:57
Originally by: Schroni
Originally by: WhiteSnake
So the sum so far is

PA=blob=drones=lag

while R.I.S.K. : covert op warp in point=warp at 120+km=snipe one bs=warp out (average time of engagement 30 secs), wait in a safe spot, repeat.

this is the 99% of all engagments, of risk umber fight tactics.
Can you blame PA if they use lag (I dont say they do, you say that we use lag) to keep you in battlefield more than 30 secs? Be honest and give us an answer, how many times you had a decent fleet engagement and how many times did you use the 30 sec tactic?


but wouldn't you agree that using a valid in-game tactic (creating warp in points and popping your support) might be A BIT different then artifically creating lag with usign drones? Rolling Eyes

think about it....


I think its a perfectly legit tactic, some may call it "lame" but these people are normally the ones who have not figured out a way to counter it yet.

But its a totally different ball game to createing lag through drones.

Emsigma
Caldari
Contraband Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2005.11.09 14:27:00 - [635]
 

Originally by: WhiteSnake
So the sum so far is

PA=blob=drones=lag

while R.I.S.K. : covert op warp in point=warp at 120+km=snipe one bs=warp out (average time of engagement 30 secs), wait in a safe spot, repeat.



Yes, that sums it up pretty well. The range is a bit off, but I can cope with it.

Originally by: WhiteSnake

Can you blame PA if they use lag (I dont say they do, you say that we use lag) to keep you in battlefield more than 30 secs?



Yes I can, because it is a borderline exploit.
Apart from that... what is the problem? We get to warp into the dronefest and kill one of your battleships and warp out while beeing outnumbered 1:1.5 - 1:2.. now.. what prevented you from shooting one of our battleships at the same time? We didn't bring no EW.

Originally by: WhiteSnake

Be honest and give us an answer, how many times you had a decent fleet engagement and how many times did you use the 30 sec tactic?




We did ye 'ole in-out in-out most of the times.

KIATolon
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2005.11.09 14:32:00 - [636]
 

Quote:
while R.I.S.K. : covert op warp in point=warp at 120+km=snipe one bs=warp out (average time of engagement 30 secs), wait in a safe spot, repeat.

Woah there soldier.

If RISK can pop a Battleship then so can you. If you are not popping them then you have the wrong fittings on your BS. Go and dock, and refit.

Using drones to lag people out (as you admit you do) is an exploit of the game. Warping in and popping a BS and warping out is only an exploit of poor fleet commanding.

Cartiff
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2005.11.09 14:33:00 - [637]
 

anyone else getting turned on here?

Antoinette Civari
Caldari
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2005.11.09 14:41:00 - [638]
 

Originally by: WhiteSnake
So the sum so far is

PA=blob=drones=lag

while R.I.S.K. : covert op warp in point=warp at 120+km=snipe one bs=warp out (average time of engagement 30 secs), wait in a safe spot, repeat.

this is the 99% of all engagments, of risk umber fight tactics.
Can you blame PA if they use lag (I dont say they do, you say that we use lag) to keep you in battlefield more than 30 secs? Be honest and give us an answer, how many times you had a decent fleet engagement and how many times did you use the 30 sec tactic?


Creating lag is not a valid tactic within in ingame rules to beat someone but rather exploits the weakness of the server to one's favour. Guerilla warfare on the other hand is a perfectly fine tactic using the ingame tools provided. ( this is obviously directed at deploying drones while camping a gate in order to lag the enemy out and score some cheap kills, not at blobbing up in general which can't be avoided in alliance combat )

Ribbo
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Blade.
Posted - 2005.11.09 14:42:00 - [639]
 

Originally by: WhiteSnake
So the sum so far is

PA=blob=drones=lag

while R.I.S.K. : covert op warp in point=warp at 120+km=snipe one bs=warp out (average time of engagement 30 secs), wait in a safe spot, repeat.

this is the 99% of all engagments, of risk umber fight tactics.
Can you blame PA if they use lag (I dont say they do, you say that we use lag) to keep you in battlefield more than 30 secs? Be honest and give us an answer, how many times you had a decent fleet engagement and how many times did you use the 30 sec tactic?


weyhey, welcome to PA exploiting warfare..

whitesnake, you appear to have blood coming from your foot, why dont you put the gun down and go get a mop me'dear ugh

Trefnis
Minmatar
LOST IDEA
C0VEN
Posted - 2005.11.09 15:29:00 - [640]
 

Could you all stop it ??

We put drones (i hate that).

You warp in 120km and pop our bs.

That is fair, but cut the crap that we outnumber you 2:1 or more.
Everybody that had ever fight at 120km know that you dont count support then, dont count raven/dominix (not even scorps becouse they dont do instadmg and this is only thing that counts if u have to pop bs before it warps away).
Then it is clearly that it is you that outnumber us with turret bs 1:1.5 or more and we have to keep you in space for more than warp and align time to kill you.

It is our weaknes that we dont have pure fleets of skilled pvp, but all alliance members and you benefit from it, but just dont do all that "We were outnubered 10:20 and we kicked your but"

When we have good even fights like 2v2 or 3v3 between experienced pvpers it is faaar more fair fight and im looking for more.

See you in space.

LcGhK9
Caldari
Doomheim
Posted - 2005.11.09 15:44:00 - [641]
 

Originally by: Trefnis
Could you all stop it ??

We put drones (i hate that).

You warp in 120km and pop our bs.

That is fair, but cut the crap that we outnumber you 2:1 or more.
Everybody that had ever fight at 120km know that you dont count support then, dont count raven/dominix (not even scorps becouse they dont do instadmg and this is only thing that counts if u have to pop bs before it warps away).
Then it is clearly that it is you that outnumber us with turret bs 1:1.5 or more and we have to keep you in space for more than warp and align time to kill you.

It is our weaknes that we dont have pure fleets of skilled pvp, but all alliance members and you benefit from it, but just dont do all that "We were outnubered 10:20 and we kicked your but"

When we have good even fights like 2v2 or 3v3 between experienced pvpers it is faaar more fair fight and im looking for more.

See you in space.


Hang on, your admiting you put the drones out? to keep them there? to lag them so they stay there?

Seriously, thats just wrong, they may be doing hit and runs, but you have to adapt, without useing something thats not meant to be a factor in the game (lag).

Dont even try and justify it. Seriously. Its just not cricket. Neutral

Invisible Touch
Caldari
Mythos Corp
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2005.11.09 15:45:00 - [642]
 

Edited by: Invisible Touch on 09/11/2005 18:49:54
Edited by: Invisible Touch on 09/11/2005 15:55:21

It has been so much buzz over the drones issue, I kinda forgot what happened myself Confused

I recall that [5] fleet was jumpin in on Burgerking, we camped the gate and the RISK fleet came as a diversion/support sniping from 120km. So, it was supposed to be a close range fight with [5] and a long range with RISK. Therefore, drones could be used against the incoming [5] fleet.

Its needless to say that for long range fights there is no practical use of getting/keeping drones out. Imho that was not the issue at this oldie though.

Why dont we all leave it at what it was, a loong laggy fun.
After all this RISK invasion, what remains, is great RISK strategic thinking, vast use of resources and logistics, two "mistakes" (one from each part), PA waking up once again from the dead, tons of POS fuel mails, me counting the secs for my cruise to reach reds at 100+km, (10km/s not fast enough but still much better then the old times), [5] ultra heavy smacking at local and being jealous for missing the fun Wink, endless hours of boring POS killing.

Apart from occasional flamebait posts and local chats it was a pleasure meeting you RISK guys. I wont expect you to disclose who was paying for all this. Let that remain between us Wink And this thread was one heck of a thread also.

Much respect and cya in space, you pirates Smile

P.S. Occasionaly I had so much fun, even my CEO was afraid I will join our careerbear squad and forget my carebear duties. Hm... I even got some killmails... strange there was a joke saying I could only kill Shrike, but who doesnt ... (she dies alot) Oh well, back to my Guristas friends and veld roids Cool

edited for typos

Hast
Amarr
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2005.11.09 19:00:00 - [643]
 

thats bull invisible touch. the drones were there for one purpose... to create lag. and when we jumped through most of the drones was sitting around their own BS's so most people didnt even bother sending them out... or they couldnt manage to due to the lag Rolling Eyes


and warping in at 120km+ and popping a BS an exploit just aswell as using drones to lag them out? I would take some of that you are smoking. You have exactly as much time to shoot them as they have to shoot you. maybe even more. Its just as easy for you to warp out as it is for them.

So if exploiting your stupidity is an exploit then CCP should ban me ASAP!

Elve Sorrow
Amarr
Celestial Apocalypse
Posted - 2005.11.09 19:05:00 - [644]
 

Hi.

Contact your local GM (Do this by pressing F12) and ask him if using drones to create lag is an exploit.

I can't quote my own local GM but the answer started with a 'Y'.

Marovinchian
Gallente
Mean Corp
Mean Coalition
Posted - 2005.11.09 19:34:00 - [645]
 

It's only an exploit if a pvp group is doing it...if carebears are gathered around a gate with drones out they must be either A. confused as too where they are and unleashing thier harvestors or B. waiting for the ebil gate NPC's to come and get them so they can chain em.

So you see...they have NEVER exploited and would never because there are excuses for everything and in the end they are the ones who have too live with themselves getting pwned by a force 1/5th thier size...so at least let them have lag without getting in trouble for it....i mean...that's just sad...ain't it? Rolling EyesTwisted EvilYARRRR!!

Invisible Touch
Caldari
Mythos Corp
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2005.11.09 20:24:00 - [646]
 

Originally by: Hast
thats bull invisible touch ... I would take some of that you are smoking. ...So if exploiting your stupidity is an exploit then CCP should ban me ASAP!


Wink

Thank you my dear friend for your kind words. Now try learning how to read. It takes time and skills.

Hast
Amarr
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2005.11.09 20:39:00 - [647]
 

Originally by: Invisible Touch
Originally by: Hast
thats bull invisible touch ... I would take some of that you are smoking. ...So if exploiting your stupidity is an exploit then CCP should ban me ASAP!


Wink

Thank you my dear friend for your kind words. Now try learning how to read. It takes time and skills.



I read quite well thank you, and those drones on the gate had one purpose, to lag us out. And no, I will not leave it, since it could have been even more fun if I didnt proplery lag out. And I was even in system.

I warped to the gate and spent 5 minutes loading the grid. And to keep myself from blowing up (I had complete control of the ship) I moved in a random direction and put my mwd on. when I finally loaded I was two seconds from flying off grid and had to turn around and spend another five minutes loading the grid... Thats laggy fun? thats just laggy...

Martin Law
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2005.11.09 22:30:00 - [648]
 

Hmmz, topic still not locked? Forum mods must be asleep or something.

Equinox II
Gallente
APEX ARDENT COALITION
Posted - 2005.11.10 01:45:00 - [649]
 

Edited by: Equinox II on 10/11/2005 01:46:18
Originally by: WhiteSnake
Can you blame PA if they use lag (I dont say they do, you say that we use lag) to keep you in battlefield more than 30 secs? Be honest and give us an answer, how many times you had a decent fleet engagement and how many times did you use the 30 sec tactic?

Oh, we do both, for example like this:
*short movie clip*

But, it doesn't work very well to warp in at 20-30 km to a 2-4x larger fleet with all drones out, so then we prefer to warp in at range - drop one or two bs and get out.. works pretty good, especially since you guys usually don't coordinate fire very well..

HUGO DRAX
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2005.11.10 04:13:00 - [650]
 

lol if there is this much smacktalk in the forums I can just imagine how local must be during these battles.

Marovinchian
Gallente
Mean Corp
Mean Coalition
Posted - 2005.11.10 05:57:00 - [651]
 

tbh for the most part local in engagements between risk and pa has been pretty clean...with the exception of AOI's current uber smacktard crap in local...

lazyb22
Caldari
Asguard Security Service
Rule of Three
Posted - 2005.11.10 06:51:00 - [652]
 

Edited by: lazyb22 on 10/11/2005 07:27:05
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.Edited by: lazyb22 on 10/11/2005 07:26:28
Originally by: Marovinchian
It's only an exploit if a pvp group is doing it...if carebears are gathered around a gate with drones out they must be either A. confused as too where they are and unleashing thier harvestors or B. waiting for the ebil gate NPC's to come and get them so they can chain em.

So you see...they have NEVER exploited and would never because there are excuses for everything and in the end they are the ones who have too live with themselves getting pwned by a force 1/5th thier size...so at least let them have lag without getting in trouble for it....i mean...that's just sad...ain't it? Rolling EyesTwisted EvilYARRRR!!


OMG I feel outta my chair and broke my desk from laughter. {really I did).
My wife came in to see wtf was going on and started laughing and she only barely knows the game.

That is the best description Ive ever seen.

Lazyb22
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Fred0
Caldari
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2005.11.10 07:15:00 - [653]
 

Using drones when camping a gate is something that is done by soo many groups of people in EVE today. It is lame but soo ****ing what, I would assume everyone is smart enough to keep tabs on what they are jumping into...

Hast
Amarr
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2005.11.10 11:09:00 - [654]
 

Originally by: Fred0
Using drones when camping a gate is something that is done by soo many groups of people in EVE today. It is lame but soo ****ing what, I would assume everyone is smart enough to keep tabs on what they are jumping into...


we do keep tabs on what we jump into, and drones wont stop us. But its still lame and I'm entitled to that opinion.

PK Geheegan
Caldari
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2005.11.10 11:44:00 - [655]
 

Well, I was there in a fleet equipped Apoc at distance and I had my drones out.
WHY?
Because I was aware that RISK had tacklers a plenty and Covert Ops to place them near my ship.
During this engagement my drones saw off two enemy tacklers without me having to target them or break off from trying to find the called fleet target off an extremely buggy overview.
Unfortunately, the combination of us all doing that did produce an insane amount of lag. But I wouldn't have changed my actions just so you would whinge less about it later. Roll on the drone changes. I'm sure you will wtfpwn us even more then, right?Laughing

KIATolon
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2005.11.10 13:24:00 - [656]
 

Quote:
I'm sure you will wtfpwn us even more then, right?


right!



:)

maria stallion
Minmatar
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2005.11.10 13:32:00 - [657]
 

maybe this thread should be closed since it is the same over and over.


LcGhK9
Caldari
Doomheim
Posted - 2005.11.10 13:41:00 - [658]
 

No way, stop asking for the thread to be closed because they are accused of being exploiting little gits.

Let the mods decide/do their job.

I still cannot belive some PA are trying to justifiy it, incredible, And to compare "Drones out to cause lag" with "Sniping from 120km+" is just stupid, one is a tactic, another is an abuse.


Trefnis
Minmatar
LOST IDEA
C0VEN
Posted - 2005.11.10 13:49:00 - [659]
 

C'mone i wasnt there at that fight but:

There was risk tempest pilot fraps of the fight that clearly shows that risk bs's at long range also had drones deployed.

Droping drones at gate if u know enemy will jump in is popular practise.

Also GM afaik said it is not exploit and if u have problems with that mail a GM and stop whining like a girl.

Ander
Gallente
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2005.11.10 13:57:00 - [660]
 

Wait a moment...

Lagging jita to death by unloading a bunch of shuttles to lag people in Jita and eventually getting node to lag horribly was considered an offence by GM's which lead to a couple players suspension/warning..

But unleashing a load of drones that got load of people to lag in BKG and eventually node to lag horribly isnt?

Hmm..................


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