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Jon Engel
Intaki Security and Intelligence
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2005.10.21 07:40:00 - [1]
 

I am trying to understand the world of eve and would like to know more about the races of eve. There seems to be only mentions of ancestory of the Gallentians and Amarr. They are all a little vague.

I would like anyone who knows anything about the Intaki, the Mannar, The Minmitars or Caldari to please give me some theorys as to there original ancestory, whether it be Asian or European of some kind.

All there seems to be is that the Amarrian Religion is a twisted form of catholicism and not much about the people themselves. The Intakis are probably the most ignored people of eve as nothing is even hinted about as to there origins or there history.

If any body has any theorys as to the origins of any of the peoples of EVE please feel free to post them. I would like to hear them.

Vladimir Ilych
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2005.10.21 10:25:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Vladimir Ilych on 21/10/2005 10:26:51
Edited by: Vladimir Ilych on 21/10/2005 10:26:12
beyond what is in http://www.eve-online.com/races/ i think maybe it is up to us to write the backstory on the races.

See following short http://www.eve-online.com/background/potw/aug01-01.asp

Camperific
Minmatar
Stillwater Corporation
Posted - 2005.10.21 11:27:00 - [3]
 

your guess is as good as mine but amarr seem to be like the european aristocracy or papal types.gallenteans u know r french,detei seem akin to the romans,the civirre like east end criminal families,minmatar yardies?

CiaCheCait
Minmatar
Flying Weepo Squadron
Posted - 2005.10.21 11:59:00 - [4]
 

You are correct in assuming that the Amarrian religion is an evolved, twisted, and elitist form of catholicism. In 3805 AD, the Unified Catholic Church settled in a system on the other side of the EVE gate, and an offshoot, "The Conformists" (not sure what they were conforming to) were excommunicated and sought refuge through the EVE gate.

The Caldari seem to be a cross between European and Japanese, in my opinion, with their affinity for mega-corporations and determination, etc. Also, even some of the system names seem to sound Japanese-ish in nature (e.g., Jita).

The Minmatar seem to be African (go figure, the Brutor have dark brown skin) and a mix of some other eastern European nationalities. The Mannar, from my understanding, were a Minmatar tribe who sought refuge in the Gallente Federation during the Amarrian occupation.

But check out the "Backstory" section, a lot of hints are dropped about the nature of the races. I also recommend reading through the Chronicles, as that might shed some light as well.

But the rest is left to us. I was very curious about the Thukker tribe, a well known Minmatar branch, but there is excruciatingly little information about their history aside from some vague bits here and there, so I made up my own history for 'em. <shrug> I haven't been told by anyone that we can't make stuff like that up. Smile

Tsual
Minmatar
Posted - 2005.10.21 20:47:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Tsual on 21/10/2005 20:49:02
Originally by: CiaCheCait

The Minmatar seem to be African (go figure, the Brutor have dark brown skin) and a mix of some other eastern European nationalities. The Mannar, from my understanding, were a Minmatar tribe who sought refuge in the Gallente Federation during the Amarrian occupation.



Shocked

As far as I know the Mannar are an own race - that as it seems heavily mixed with the Gallente.

Officially there were only seven tribes: sebiestor, brutor, kurusal, vherokior (in the republic) Nefantar (or Ammatar as they are called today), the Thukker (Nomands of eve, current home region: GWL) and Starkmanir (erased by amarrians, except the one or other surviving Amarrian slave stock that has forgotten his origin)

However between the conquering of the minmatars and the contact between Gallente and Mannar are 500 years concerning the official time line.

Besides there are for shure a lot of collaps surviving races that never get the attention of the pod pilot community as they are mere minorities.
(For my own background I made one up.)

CiaCheCait
Minmatar
Flying Weepo Squadron
Posted - 2005.10.22 21:25:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Tsual
As far as I know the Mannar are an own race - that as it seems heavily mixed with the Gallente.
I realized this shortly after I made my post. Yeah, the Mannar are similar to the Intaki in that they're a separate race that was absorbed by the Federation.

For some reason the back of my head kept on saying "Psst, they're Minmatar," and I hardly ever ignore the voice in the back of my head, even if I know it's wrong. . .<sigh> =)

Tsual
Minmatar
Posted - 2005.10.22 23:45:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: CiaCheCait

For some reason the back of my head kept on saying "Psst, they're Minmatar," and I hardly ever ignore the voice in the back of my head, even if I know it's wrong. . .<sigh> =)


You mean it's also that voice that always whispers "kill them, kill them" to you er me?Wink

Jon Engel
Intaki Security and Intelligence
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2005.10.24 12:23:00 - [8]
 

Thanks for the help on this, but I have a theory on The Intaki. I beleive the Intaki to be descended from either Indian or other middle eastern origins.

I would like for some opinions on this from the rest of you as well.

Jon Engel
Intaki Security and Intelligence
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2005.10.24 12:40:00 - [9]
 

Ok, I would still like any comments on the previous reply i made but i thought I should bring this up as well. It makes sense that over time isolated human populations would develop different languages and cultures, but from what I understand the world is as we know it is shrinking. Cultural and racial differences in society are slowly dissipating.

That being said I beleive it would be best to describe the Races of eve as mixtures of Earth races and Racial subclasses with particular traits of each showing more in one than the other.

We all know that People of African decent have dark skin due to a hot and Sunny climate, therefore wouldnt it be feasable to beleive that the minmitar could very well have been decended from Europeans, but centurys of living on a hot and sunny matar forced genetic adaptations that suited there climate? As well as not every Minmitar group being of darker complexion either.

Not to mention the Racial and Genetic history of the Amarr are a mystery as well as noone knows who was living on the Amarrian homeworld when the "reformists" came there and spread there beleifs.

The Caldari with there asian-ish solar system names is hardly a cause to assume they are of Asian decent as It could very well be that the Caldari Language is some hybrid of linguistical heritage that is not neccesarily of any Asian origin.

The Gallentians are somewhat puzzling to me as the NPC names of the Agents are French and some of there words are of Actuall french language.

These are all plausible theories, But I beleive the best In-character stance is to assume that noone knows who built the EVE gate and some dont even know its purpose.


So when you give that Caldari a Japanese name or that Amarrian a Latin name please remember that you could be wrong, and ccp lets the story of EVE drip to us in little bits and pieces and we all could be wrong about everyone.
Its

Suuji Praath
The Red Tide
Posted - 2005.10.24 19:06:00 - [10]
 

There's actually quite a bit of official evidence that the Caldari are Asian (despite their avatars, which is another story). As far as the Amarrians, their origins have been discussed at length here already if you want to check this out. In fact, most these questions have been taken up a number of times already if you want to give the forums a search.

Intakis could have a Middle-Eastern or Asian descent as well, but as you said, it could be subcontinental. The reasons for this seems to be their naming conventions and their seemingly Buddhist/Hindu concept of reincarnation which would really distinguish them from Western cultures. There's an "Intaki National Park" in India (see here) and it also the last name of an Egyptian textile industrialist (see here).

Other than that, we're not going to find much to support any idea of where Intakis came from. I like the idea that they're a melange anyway.

Wanoah
Minmatar
Msana Foundation
Posted - 2005.10.24 21:09:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Wanoah on 24/10/2005 21:10:41
Discussions on the 'Origin of the Species' in Eve are always fascinating I think. The great thing is you can't be wrong, as it's pure speculation. There is an immense amount of time (in human terms at least) between the here and now, and the future that is Eve. With the upheavals and setbacks that all the races have had to endure to still be in existence, it is not too surprising that the links to the past are so hard to piece together.

I think it is a mistake to look for racial origins. For example, English people are descended from a huge variety of racial origins. Itís pretty hard to pick out who has Briton/Celt/Saxon/Norman/Roman/Dane/Angle/Whatever ancestry. Iím betting that it wonít take too long for it will be impossible to work out whether someone has ancestry that can be traced to the Indian subcontinent or Africa or the West Indies. If in 2000 years we end up with fairly generic Scandinavian-looking people, generic northern/western European looking people, and generic Mediterranean looking people, imagine what changes would be wrought over a much greater time span, with at least the first thousand or two years having global and later galactic communications.

We have no idea of the political situation in the old world at the time the wormhole to the Eve galaxy is discovered. Is there some kind of all-encompassing (maybe oppressive) regime dictating the spread of humanity? Are there various competing factions in space? Is there maybe all-out war amongst competing factions? (could this be how the Eve Gate goes bang? Attacked by forces on the other side?)

I like to think of the early colonisation of Eve as being a little bit like the colonisation of the Americas, without the indigenous population. There would be the state/corporate entities and their employees building infrastructure, establishing settlements, and exploiting resources. I imagine there would be scientific missions to catalogue the galaxy and seek out potentially habitable planets and planets appropriate for terraforming. Then there would be the huddled masses: poor people on a one way ticket looking for whatever opportunities the new frontier has to offer, and groups of people fleeing persecution or simply to set up their own idea of a perfect society somewhere.

So, my personal take on the situation immediately after the gate goes bang. There are two groups of people who have an advantage of sorts Ė scientists based in space stations, and the spaceship crews that remain in space in their ships. These groups eventually combine and go on to become the Jove. They start off with a much greater technical and scientific knowledge base, so despite the declines in their civilisation they are generally swiftest to recover.

I always picture the original Amarr to be a bit like the puritans arriving in America to found a new society. The Conformists had some fairly extreme views and were not tolerated in galactic society. They settle a colony on a new world to be free of the corrupting taint of society at large. Naturally, this gives them a determination to succeed that enables them to survive the cataclysm and recover slightly quicker from the huge technological back-pedalling that occurs. I canít explain the Ni-Kunnis at all. The males all look pretty deformed or subnormal to me.

[cont]

Wanoah
Minmatar
Msana Foundation
Posted - 2005.10.24 21:10:00 - [12]
 

[...]
I imagine the Minmatar tribes to have originated from seven very different groups of people who started out in completely different zones of the planet that became known as Matar. The Sebiestors were in the colder northern areas, so had to develop a degree of cunning to survive with scarcer resources. Perhaps they did indeed develop along the lines of the Scottish clans. By contrast, the Brutors migrated across an archipelago of lush islands. I always imagine the Brutors to be descended from a group of Rastafarians, or people harking after the ways of old tribal Africa, searching for a place where they could lead a simpler life. It would explain the relative racial purity and the strongest tribal traditions existing among the Brutors. The strong sense of tradition of all the tribal groups has prevented a complete blending of society into one homogenous whole, although it seems to me as if the Sebiestor language has become the official language of the Republic. Many of the solar system names seem to have a slightly Scandinavian or Dutch (weird combo, but hey) ring to them.

These are just my general ramblings on the subject Ė no more than subjective impressions really. Certainly, the Ďpre-historyí of Eve is such a large gap that it seems eminently exploitable for some fiction. You could pretty much assert anything within reason and not be wrong according to Prime Fiction.

Achak Hinto
Posted - 2005.10.25 02:28:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Jon Engel

We all know that People of African decent have dark skin due to a hot and Sunny climate, therefore wouldnt it be feasable to beleive that the minmitar could very well have been decended from Europeans, but centurys of living on a hot and sunny matar forced genetic adaptations that suited there climate? As well as not every Minmitar group being of darker complexion either.



The question is if 21000 years is long enough to make that much of a difference to peoples physical appearance? Would we recognise our ancestors from 19000BC? That's only a thousand generations. Damn I wish I could remember Anthropology better...

My reading of the Matari back story.
"The Sebiestor tribe hails from the inhospitable steppes of the Mikramurka continent in the northern artic region on Matar."
Made me think of Siberians and/or northern plains Amerindians.

"The Brutors are a swarthy people originating from the island-ridden southern hemisphere of Matar."
Maori, Polynesian analogy.

"The Krusual tribe initially inhabited the mountainous region of the upper Tronhadar-valley on Matar."
Mountain Amerindians.

Originally by: Wanoah

I think it is a mistake to look for racial origins. For example, English people are descended from a huge variety of racial origins. Itís pretty hard to pick out who has Briton/Celt/Saxon/Norman/Roman/Dane/Angle/Whatever ancestry.



I couldn't agree more. Romans from all over the Empire were stationed and then settled in Britian. (There were black emperors and black popes.) Normans (or Northmen) were Scandinavians who settled in Normandy and became Frankicised [sic] before conquering here. For thousands of years North Africans came to Cornwall for the copper and tin from the mines. Greater Brittany is a real mix.
All cultures are heterogeneous meaning diverse in kind or nature.

Sorry if I've stumbled off topic.


Jon Engel
Intaki Security and Intelligence
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2005.10.25 11:00:00 - [14]
 

Im here to discuss the topic of where the individual races and bloodlines came from. As long as the posts are near that subject then say as you please.

I am simply wishing to hear theories on where people think the obscure races may have came from. Perhaps opening the discussion to what could be going on, on Earth might make it an interesting topic too.

Jon Engel
Intaki Security and Intelligence
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2005.10.25 11:09:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Jon Engel on 25/10/2005 11:10:01
Ok, to explaim the time it takes for a people to adjust to differnt climates and cultural effects too.

America was founded by Englishmen, they colinized the greater portion of north America. Over about 300 years those colonists lost the English "accent" and due to warmer climates the Average American of european decent is slightly taller than that of the European.

Therefore I beleive it to be possible for physical characteristics of a group to vastly change in merely thousands of years. When you add differnt planetary climates it could very well have increased the adaptation to the diffrent CLimates, whether it be Temperature, Gravity, and diet.


Wanoah
Minmatar
Msana Foundation
Posted - 2005.10.25 20:15:00 - [16]
 

OK, we have all become taller (in the 'western' countries at least, as far as I know), but I thought that has generally been attributed to better overall diet. Modern man is clearly taller than people dug out of peat bogs for example. Still, it is a good example of how physical characteristics can change over centuries rather than millennia.

If you work from a starting point of a single bloodline originating from a possibly quite small group of people then you could see some quite distinctive results over the time period we're looking at. I'm not sure that evolution works fast enough to say, change intrinsically white people into hereditary dark-skinned people within the time period weíre looking at. I could be wrong though. If you start with 100 people, and 60 of them are black and 40 of them are white, what would they look like after several thousand years? Which genes would dominate? Would climate have any significant impact?

I wonder how the Caldari could become pretty much western-looking and yet culturally be more influenced by the Japanese. One scenario immediately occurs to me. Uber Nippon Megacorp Inc establishes outposts on Caldari Prime. Although a majority of the workers are from North America or Europe, the company insists on maintaining very strong Japanese traditions. When they are cut off the Japanese traditions are retained, but the actual Japanese racial characteristics are lost in the racial mixing that occurs as the colonists fight for survival, then build a new civilisation. The ancestors of the Caldari had to survive 39 years on a planet without a breathable atmosphere, so you can imagine that the survivors would be tough, and resourceful Ė not a bad starting point for a new civilisation. 39 years trying to keep an outpost running and protected from a lethal external environment would be a grim experience. Itís not surprising then that the people there would maybe cling to old customs and traditions as a comfort; a reminder of better days in the past.

Perhaps the Ni-Kunnis originate from such a small group that the level of inbreeding required to survive has lead to the males tending towards a slightly odd appearance. They must have been an extreme distance from wherever the Amarr started out on the planet.

Out of everyone, the Minmatar ancestors seem to have had the easier ride in terms of a homeworld. Matar is described as having very hospitable conditions. Perhaps itís the relative ease of survival that resulted in less pressure to develop new technology. An abundance of food and a pleasant climate isnít conducive to achieving technological marvels!

In short, I think all the bloodlines will have been descended from a mixture of people. With only one or two exceptions, I think they will have lost most of their old cultural references and it is impossible to trace any one bloodline back to one specific racial group or nation.

Of course, the reality is that the developers said something like, ďThese guys will look a bit like thisĒ and the artists drew their interpretations. A lot of the names will probably be generated, not randomly, but using some kind of algorithm that will produce names according to a set of rules. No doubt the devs always have a chuckle at our ponderings on the subject as they probably put more thought into what the races are now than where they came from. Still, itís fun to think about it. Iíd like to write some stories set in the period when the Eve Gate was still open, thatís for sure.

Achak Hinto
Posted - 2005.10.29 16:44:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Jon Engel

I am simply wishing to hear theories on where people think the obscure races may have came from. Perhaps opening the discussion to what could be going on, on Earth might make it an interesting topic too.


Well if we extrapolate on the situation on Earth present day both France and India have been very successful in maintaining their idea of Culture in the face of Anglo-American hegemony. This makes them both good candidates for survival until the invention of interstellar travel. Since the backstory tells us the Gallenteans are "Descendants of Tau Ceti Frenchmen" it is possible that worlds were colonised exclusively by people from particular Terran nations. Some European settlers came to America to escape religious persecution perhaps the French settled Tau Ceti to be free from cultural persecution. (freedom fries anyone?)
India as the birthplace of the Intaki ancestors is likely in my opinion. For the reasons I've stated and those of the others above my comments. India, the sub-continent, was only united as a politcal entity in reaction to British colonialism, then sundered by the Partition. I could harp on at great length about regional diversity, linguistical differences and it's rich and varied history. (For instance Sikhism was formed in response to the Invasion of Northern India by the Islamic Mughals.)

...

Originally by: Wanoah

Out of everyone, the Minmatar ancestors seem to have had the easier ride in terms of a homeworld. Matar is described as having very hospitable conditions. Perhaps itís the relative ease of survival that resulted in less pressure to develop new technology. An abundance of food and a pleasant climate isnít conducive to achieving technological marvels!



Wanoah, I agree with what you wrote apart from this. From the Backstory -
"The fortunes of the Minmatars have ebbed and flowed continuously. At one time they had a flourishing empire with a level of mechanical excellence never before or since seen anywhere. Later, however, they had to endure centuries of enslavement, toiling and dying for the benefit of foreign masters. Today most of them have regained their freedom, but the legacy of their enslavement has been the diaspora of the race."
As I quoted in my first post "The Sebiestor tribe hails from the inhospitable steppes of the Mikramurka continent in the northern artic region on Matar."

Necessity is the mother of invention.

Ly'sol
Caldari
Posted - 2005.10.29 17:54:00 - [18]
 

first of all, what makes you think that ANYTHING of the Caldari ancestors survied the fall. Caldari Prime was a wasteland when the gate fell. There was mention of six or so seperate groups on different continents that survied long enough for the terraforming to begin.

Nothing that the Caldari are today is from a result of what they were before the gate. They had to rebuild thier society from beig primitives back to space flight, it took them sixteen thousand years to even show up on the written hisotorical records (which is good all things considering) and another seven thousand years to get to where they are today.

Corporations were not even a ruling factor in Caldari history until after the fall of the Raata empire. And before Raata, the Caldari were composed of 3 major nations, the Ratta-Oyrioni and the Fuukiuye. Even though this lasted for three thousand years it is still safe to say that this would be the equivilent of the Roman empire in terms of technology.

After the fall of the Raata empire is where you get the "myrid" of states or nations. And from this it says nothing else. We do know that corporations such as Perkone are operating at this time but not as a mega corp. Best we can assume is these states are individual nations of sword and stone weilding people at competition with each other over scarce resources of a "fake" planet.

Technology wise they could at this point start to become more aware of the terraforming machines which probally are now long dead, but could simply refer to them as "The hand of the maker". But I think the Caldari industrial revolution would not happen until shortly before thier first contact of the Gallente. I imagine there would be a large desiparity of about a 100 or maybe even 500 so years ahead of the caldari simply because from what i understand Luminare was a habitibitable planet fromt he get go and had an abundance of energy sources.

Gallente had an 8 thousand year head start.

Caldari had ancient techonlogy to help them catch up.


in 22463 is the best marker for the civilizations technology wise.

It is when the Gallente could see evidence of another race on Caldari Prime but could not make contact.

That tells us that the Gallente could be sparefareing up to where maybe the USA and the EU are now. And the Caldari could be behind in technology far enough that they dont have the ability to recieve or transmit radiowaves.

Now it also says that after first contact. The Gallente started to take advantage of the Caldari. Im assumeing much like how a 1st world nation takes advantage of a 3rd world nation. Jaquce wants 17 tons of that genetically engineered corn because it fits humans nutritional needs unnaturally well and he could make a killing selling this exotic food back home. So he will trade Akira his laser range finder for it.


You also have to remember the Caldari mentality...They fought for survial on a hostile world. Competed with each other...then they look up in the night sky and see moving stars. Probes landing taking pictures. they are thinking "There is someone else who is better than us. We must catch up or die trying." And over the next 600 years they did...they were almost there until the Gallente found out what they were doing. And they lost thier homeworld over it. They failed to win the race once. Its a good bet that they will NEVER let that happen and be taken advantage of again.

Ly'sol
Caldari
Posted - 2005.10.29 18:02:00 - [19]
 

PS

I think the Caldari prime goverment before the war was composed of national goverments and they were using thier mega corporations to expand thier influance. When Caldari prime was destroyed the only thing that was left was the refugees fleeing and the mega corps (which had to take over as leading the civilization)

Oisin
Posted - 2005.10.30 02:52:00 - [20]
 

I agree that it's a mistake to compare Eve races too closely to Earth. I would guess that every Eve bloodline is descended from a diverse group of settlers. Even the Gallente being descended from Tau Ceti Frenchmen doesn't rule out the possibility that Tau Ceti French were themselves descended from many ethnic groups, just as the 21st century French are.

More to the point, especially from a RP point of view, genetic ancestry is less important than the culture which each group has developed over thousands of years of isolation. IMO it's not so important what a Caldari or Amarr looks like, what is important is the individual character's background, motivation, connections, loyalty, etc.

Of course, discussing the origins of the Eve races is an interesting thing to do in itself and I've already posted some of my theories on this in other threads ;)

Lucus Raines
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2005.11.01 22:24:00 - [21]
 

im surprised that there is so little information regarding the Intaki. i agree that i see the Caldari as a type of european/japanese culture in terms of their drive for success. am i crazy to think that i see the gallentians as americans? (dont flame plz) they seem to me to be a bit arrogant in the ways they deal with the other races/empires. they have the technology, they have the "open" minded culture, yet they seem to be abotu making ISK more than the others. i dunno just a observation.

jon that is a good question, what is goin on at earth right now?

Wanoah
Minmatar
Msana Foundation
Posted - 2005.11.02 00:00:00 - [22]
 

The only thing that the Gallente have in common with the US is that they are both democracies as far as I can see. Talking in stereotypes here, but the Gallente are way more typical of a liberal European society than the uptight US take on democracy. None of them a particularly comparable to any one nation that we have today anyway, but I concede that it is helpful to make the comparisons anyway just to aid the imagination.


Alejandro Zapata
Minmatar
PAK
Posted - 2006.03.07 16:23:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Alejandro Zapata on 07/03/2006 16:43:30
Sorry to revive an old topic, but in my search for answers to some specific questions about MInmatar religion, I came across this post by Wanoah:

Quote:
Out of everyone, the Minmatar ancestors seem to have had the easier ride in terms of a homeworld. Matar is described as having very hospitable conditions. Perhaps itís the relative ease of survival that resulted in less pressure to develop new technology. An abundance of food and a pleasant climate isnít conducive to achieving technological marvels!


This is common and gross misconception. The abundance of food results in a growth in population, which then results in more specialization of people in a society. The result of such specialization is the advancement of the technology of the society. If Matar was indeed a bread basket of the galaxy, then the Matari should be the rulers not the slaves. And according to CCP's backstory, the Matari were a technologically advanced race.

To think that humans that lived on islands and just sat in their loincloths soaking in the rays and stayed stupid while Europeans were cold and had to adapt to survive and got more advanced is incorrect, and not a little bit racist. There are alot more factors relevant than just sunshine and fruity drinks. Remember that human civilization developed and thrived in the bread baskets of the world, and not in the wasteland.


Morgana Janan
GalacTECH Unlimited
Gunboat Diplomacy
Posted - 2006.03.08 02:39:00 - [24]
 

I don't think it's really possible to apply modern human labels to the groups in EVE. Remember, the human groups on Earth have only been around maybe ten or twenty thousand years. Genetically, we all originate from the same small group of Homo sapiens that survived some cataclysm several thousand years back that decimated the human population. The human race, in it's current form, is a very new thing. Incidently, human genetic drift is extremly low. A lot lower than in, say, chimpanzees.

Now the events of the collapse of the empires in EVE occur twenty thousand years in the future. You're talking about twice the length of human civilization on Earth. Long enough for evolutionary factors to become involved, I think. Also long enough for any realistic comparisons to Terran cultures and ethnicities to be completly irrelevent.

Alejandro Zapata
Minmatar
PAK
Posted - 2006.03.08 17:37:00 - [25]
 

I am going to have to disagree with you there. Like you say, we have only been on earth as 'modern humans' for 10-12 thousand years. In that time, we have changed very little in our basic habits. Who is to say in 20 thousand we will be so different?

Let me give you an example. There are very few places on Earth where one of the greatest human inventions developed independently. Writing only developed independently in THREE places on Earth: Sumer, China and Mesoamerica (Mexico). I will use Sumer and Mexico in my example. Here you have two regions that were very good for agriculture. When farming developed in these areas, populations exploded. Soon after this explosion came the development of writing. What is so special about that? Writing in Sumeria arose before 3000 BCE. In Mexico it didn't until rise until just before 600 BC. In two very different areas, two very different peoples seperated by thousands of miles and years, reacted in almost the exact same way to certain events. Development of Agriculture > Population Growth > Writing.

So I think it is highly possible and appropriate to use the patterns of human development on Earth to speculate on the developments of how humans developed after the fall of civilization in Eve and subsequent rebirth.

And besides, I already proved my point. I did it in my first post. Minmatars were a technologically advanced race as it says in the background information. If they did live on a fruitful world, with a pleasant climate and an abundant and nutritious food source, then I say, that based on human development on Earth, their technological advancement is a direct result of their favorable envirornment.

Wanoah
Minmatar
Msana Foundation
Posted - 2006.03.08 19:35:00 - [26]
 

*Waves at AZ.Very Happy

I have revised my opinion of how the Minmatar developed in the light of more recent discussions and the release of Theodicy.

The fact remains that the Minmatar had not advanced as far as the Amarr at least. My original assumption was that at the time of the Amarr invasion, the Minmatar Empire was either confined to its home system or was only just interstellar. Now it seems that they had advanced much further into the galaxy than that. Nonetheless, they were either completely outclassed or completely outnumbered by the Amarr when they did show up. Yes, they were advanced, but not as advanced as the Amarr when it came to building ships and space travel. We know how that turned out.

The question is why. The Amarr were driven to expand into space much sooner. I still contend it was because their homeworld wasn't rich enough in resources to accomodate their ambition. They hit the limit sooner than anyone else and necessity is the mother of invention. They also had a consolidated society once they had conquered the Udorians. Then there is the crusading nature of their religion.

By contrast, the Minmatar have a resource-rich, abundant world. The pressure to expand offworld isn't as great. They also appear to be a divided society, which is probably a big factor in slowing any push to migrate towards distant stars. It's more than likely that while the Amarr were relentlessly expanding outwards, development on Matar was focused elsewhere. Maybe they had the best medicine in the galaxy, the best chemists, or the best TV shows. What they definitely didn't have was the best ships, or enough of them. They were building an interstellar empire when the Amarr arrived, but whatever they had was clearly not able to fight the Amarr warships or their numbers advantage and gradually they succumbed to the invasion. The Gallente (which include the Caldari at this time) must also have been more advanced in terms of numbers and ship tech, as the Amarr didn't feel they could take them on.

SadisticSavior
Caldari
Posted - 2006.03.08 22:57:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: SadisticSavior on 08/03/2006 23:02:35
Quote:
The only thing that the Gallente have in common with the US is that they are both democracies as far as I can see.
The Caldari are an obvious analog to the US.

- They are capitalistic and greedy.
- They are militaristic and violent.
- They used to be subordinate to a much larger power, but rebelled and became a superpower in their own right.
- They are the most technologically advanced PC race in the game.

While the Japanese and Europeans might fit a few of those criteria, the US fits all of them.

The Gallente definitely seem to have fruity EU vibe to them. Like the Europeans they evolved from an oppressive state into a liberal democratic society.

The Minmatar come across as Eastern Euro.

The Amarrians come across as a combination of *snip* Germany/Imperial Japan. I did get the Catholic connection before but i can definitely see it now. It fits.

(I cant say the word *snip* ??)


Filter evasion is not allowed - Petwraith

GoGo Yubari
Veto.
Posted - 2006.03.08 23:39:00 - [28]
 

I think people get way too involved in this exercise. People need to realize that for Eve, most of the "real world" references for the bloodlines are quite distant. Of course, exceptions exist, such as the Gallente. Overall, the races have a quite large mixture of influences.

Also, for the Caldari, you have to add in the Finnish influence. Nothing else stands out, but the nomenclature is always eerily close and very many times spot on. I suspect a Finnish phonebook has been used in the creation of this game. YARRRR!!

Tony Fats
Posted - 2006.03.09 00:06:00 - [29]
 

To me it seems like this :

Minmatar = Jews or Middle Easterners, escaped from the clutches of the Romans or Crusaders(Amarrians.) The tribal structure (12 tribes of Israel), the minmatar mining frigate looks like a scorpion (desert), Thukker are nomads (desert people.)

Amarrians = Romans or Crusaders, who occupied the region for many years. Slavery was legal just like with the Amarrians. Beaks of the ships = Beaks of Roman Senators. Emperor=Caesar.

Khanid = Imperial Japanese. Note the Samurai helmet, and their "devotion to the Emperor." Sounds alot like the code of Bushido, loyalty to one's lord and Emperor.

Gallente = French/British axis culture. Intaki perhaps represent Indians (rebirth) who the British formed close ties with in the past. Jin Mei = Chinese who the British also had close ties with. Minmatar have close ties to the Gallenteans, the way Moroccans have close ties to the French.

Caldari = German/Nordic/Japanese axis culture a la WW2.

Civire = Germans/Nordic skinheads/militants.
Deteis = Ruthless Japanese businessmen.
Achura = Deteis take 2.

Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2006.03.09 00:39:00 - [30]
 

Wow, SadisticSavor really hates America. ugh

But I believe that the official story was that the Caldari were mostly inspired by Japanese socioeconomical structures of the late 20th century, disregarding the fact that Japan isn't allowed to have an offensive military. I heard from reputable sources around the alpha testing days that the Caldari were originally supposed to have Asian avatars, but CCP couldn't get the models the way they wanted and so settled for something less.

As for the Caldari language, it definately has some Japanese influence, while the use of consonants suggests Scandinavian languages are snuck in there too. Genetically, I've held on to the belief that Deteis and Civire are of Scaninavian and Asian decents, but much moreso the former. The Achur being the exception, where they are much moreso, if not 100%, of Japanese decent.


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