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Spartan III
Xzile-EVE-Corp
Posted - 2005.10.13 01:38:00 - [1]
 

Ok here it is after 3 weeks of research and calculations, my 170 million ISK setup that I will be able to use in a couple of monthsCool for level 4 missions. Need lots of critique and thanks go out to Jim Steele for his wonderfull apoc guide.

With the new passive tanking skill coming out this should work real nice =)
Oh don't worry with the right skills it fitsVery Happy

Highs Slots
6xMega Pulse Laser II
2xArbalest Cruiser Launcher I

Mediums Slots
3xCapacitor Recharger II
1x100mn Afterburner II

Low Slots
2xLarge Armor Repairer II
3xEnergized (NPC Specific) Membrane II
2xCapacitor Power Relay I

Drones
4 Heavy Drones, 5 Medium Drones



Need critique before I start training and buying stuffVery Happy

sven dar
Posted - 2005.10.13 02:06:00 - [2]
 

use beams, you will get more range, and imo if you are going to usepassive hardners i would go with the adaptive nano's and be able to tank a bit if you run into some PvP

Spartan III
Xzile-EVE-Corp
Posted - 2005.10.13 02:15:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Spartan III on 13/10/2005 02:32:06
Originally by: sven dar
use beams, you will get more range, and imo if you are going to usepassive hardners i would go with the adaptive nano's and be able to tank a bit if you run into some PvP


Dual Beams or Mega Beams?

About the adaptive nano's are you saying to stack 3 on top of each other? those resistances would come out to...
EM-93.3%
Ex-53.3%
Kin-58.3%
Therm-68.3%.

If I am going into 0.4 or lower space for a mission it wouldn't it be better to fit 1 explosive, 1 kinetic, and 1 thermal Energized Membrane giveing me resistances of...
EM-60%
Ex-57.5%
Kin-62.5%
Therm-72.5%

Yes I sacrifice a lot of EM resist but em doesn't do as much armor damge as the other types of damage which since I am in caldari space I am more likely to encounter.

Did I just do those calculations wrong or am I right?

sapage1
The Galactic Guard
Posted - 2005.10.13 02:39:00 - [4]
 

for non-deadspace mission i used;
High: 7*tach2, 1 rocket launcher
Med: 2*sensor Booster2, 2*tracking computer
low: 1*med rep2, 1*rcu, 5*heatsink2

Nice high damage if you have the SP in gunnery, just come in at 100km with ultras and start blasting away.

Deja Thoris
Invicta.
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2005.10.13 03:51:00 - [5]
 

Your setup looks pretty good. I agree with the use of Mega beams over pulse.

My only big criticism is why fit cruise lainchers? It's a whole new skill tree that needs to be trained and cruise do terrible damage to frigates.

Your last 2 slots should be anti frig. For that you can use medium pulse or beam lasers. It saves you training all the crap you need to get to cruise missiles.

By the way, the stacking calcs look very very wrong but that's another subject.


Spartan III
Xzile-EVE-Corp
Posted - 2005.10.13 04:16:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Deja Thoris
My only big criticism is why fit cruise lainchers? It's a whole new skill tree that needs to be trained and cruise do terrible damage to frigates.


Had everything except ML5 and Cruise Missiles I trained, but I guess its best not to use them. Maybe rockets with defenders??
My drones will handle the frigs so no worrys there.

Originally by: Deja Thoris
y the way, the stacking calcs look very very wrong but that's another subject.


So what would they be?

Foomanshoe
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2005.10.13 04:20:00 - [7]
 

Id say go mega beams too, and keep them at range. Will keep the NPCs much more managable if you engage at 80km instead of 20km.

Also, i perfer active hardeners, you wont notice the cap on an apoc, and they are alot better.

Naughty Boy
Chronics of ordinary hate
Posted - 2005.10.13 04:23:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Spartan III
So what would they be?


3 energized nano t2: 0,759 (em) 0,519 (expl) 0,549 (kin) 0,609 (therm)
3 t1 active hardeners: 0,600 (em) 0,600 (expl) 0,625 (kin) 0,675 (therm)
3 t2 active hardeners: 0,600 (em) 0,640 (expl) 0,663 (kin) 0,708 (therm)
3 damage specific energized thingy t2: 0,600 (em) 0,500 (expl) 0,531 (kin) 0,594 (therm)

In any case, you'll be much, much better with t2 active hardeners.

Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.

Spartan III
Xzile-EVE-Corp
Posted - 2005.10.13 04:42:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Spartan III on 13/10/2005 04:51:30
What about with the new passive hardener skill coming out? won't that make the membranes better?

Originally by: Naughty Boy
3 damage specific energized thingy t2: 0,600 (em) 0,500 (expl) 0,531 (kin) 0,594 (therm)


The TL2 Membranes give 37.5% not 30% or whatever you did.
1x Energized Reactive Membrane II Exp = 20+37.5=57.5%
1x Energized Magnetic Membrane II Kin = 25+37.5=63.5%
1x Energized Thermic Membrane II Therm = 35+37.5=72.5%

with the new passive skill trained to 5 it will give aprox another 10% to each of those. So are hardeners still better?

Naughty Boy
Chronics of ordinary hate
Posted - 2005.10.13 05:20:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Naughty Boy on 13/10/2005 05:22:57
Originally by: Spartan III
The TL2 Membranes give 37.5% not 30% or whatever you did.
1x Energized Reactive Membrane II Exp = 20+37.5=57.5%
1x Energized Magnetic Membrane II Kin = 25+37.5=63.5%
1x Energized Thermic Membrane II Therm = 35+37.5=72.5%


Sorry, it isn't working like that. It's 20% + (1-20%)*37.5% = 50%. You add the resistance to the "unresisted" part. Otherwise, you'd just use 7 active hardeners and run around invulnerable.

Then, when there is one (you add multiple membranes) you have to account the stacking penalty.

And, yes, things are going to change with the new skills and the new stacking penalty.

Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.

Lucian Alucard
Caldari
Black Vice Industries
Posted - 2005.10.13 07:43:00 - [11]
 

Snipapoc

8 modulated Megabeams
1 sensor booster 2
2 t2 target painters
1 t2 tracking comp
1 rcu 2
2 t2 tracking enhancers
4 heat sink 2s


Gankapoc

8 t2 mega pulse
1 Named AB
2 t2 target painters
1 t2 tracking comp
7 heat sink 2s (or 4 HS 2's and 3 tracking enhancer 2's)


"The Wizard"

8 T2 Mega Pulse
1 sensor booster 2
3 t2 tracking disruptors/Sensor Damps
4 Heat Sink 2s
3 warp core stabs

Buraken v2
Spontaneous Defenestration
Posted - 2005.10.13 08:38:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: sven dar
use beams, you will get more range,


What the man said, take it from me, Mr. Mission-runner-extraordinaire, beams are way better then pulses, does more damage too. Yes you will have a hard time hittin cruisers at 15km but thats what heavy drones are for my friend, USE THEM! :)

Kinsy
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2005.10.13 10:15:00 - [13]
 

Dont bother with the missile slots.

Heres what i keep running:-

General Setup/Deadspace:-

3 Mega Modulated Beams
3 Tachyon IIs
2 Heavy Beam Laser IIs

4 Cap IIs

2 T2 Large Reps
3 Hardeners 50%
1 Heat Sink II
1 RCU II

Sniper Pwnage:-

6 Tachyon IIs
2 Heavy Pulse Laser IIs

3 Cap IIs
1 Sensor Booster II

1 Large T2 Rep
2 Hardeners
3 Heat Sink II
1 RCU II

Admittedly the tank is almost never needed, feel free to go all out sniper for those non-DS missions with no tank.

'Fun' Setup:-

7 Mega Pulse II
1 Heavy Pulse II (Can be s***ped with a Dual Heavy Pulse II once you get adv weap upgrades)

3 Cap IIs
1 14km Webber (or Target Painter II...have to use one now as lost my 14km web:( )

2 Large Rep II
3 Hardeners
1 Heat Sink II
1 CPR

Warp in at 15km with multifreq loaded, web/approach the BS soon as your there and kill off the tacklers quickly with drones. Stuff dies real fast and you'll need to be on your toes but its more fun than the other two setups.

Spartan III
Xzile-EVE-Corp
Posted - 2005.10.14 03:10:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Naughty Boy
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 13/10/2005 05:22:57
Originally by: Spartan III
The TL2 Membranes give 37.5% not 30% or whatever you did.
1x Energized Reactive Membrane II Exp = 20+37.5=57.5%
1x Energized Magnetic Membrane II Kin = 25+37.5=63.5%
1x Energized Thermic Membrane II Therm = 35+37.5=72.5%


Sorry, it isn't working like that. It's 20% + (1-20%)*37.5% = 50%. You add the resistance to the "unresisted" part. Otherwise, you'd just use 7 active hardeners and run around invulnerable.

Then, when there is one (you add multiple membranes) you have to account the stacking penalty.

And, yes, things are going to change with the new skills and the new stacking penalty.

Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.


I am not showing stacked hardeners. there is one hardener on each base resistance meaning there is NO stacking penalty applied as you have to actually STACK somthing for there to be a STACKING penalty.

Hope I didn't sound mean as I was only trying to make a pointTwisted Evil

Naughty Boy
Chronics of ordinary hate
Posted - 2005.10.14 03:28:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Naughty Boy on 14/10/2005 03:36:10
Originally by: Spartan III
I am not showing stacked hardeners. there is one hardener on each base resistance meaning there is NO stacking penalty applied as you have to actually STACK somthing for there to be a STACKING penalty.

Hope I didn't sound mean as I was only trying to make a pointTwisted Evil


You do not sound mean, you sound like you don't get what i told you. The comment about stacking was just there to remind you that, if you want to find your resistances when stacking membranes, you have to account for a stacking penalty. That was a general statement, an explaination about how it works in general.

Even when not stacking upon other hardeners, hardeners do not add a flat increase to resistances. That's how it is, not how i want it to be. Be convinced or be not, accept critics or comments or don't, for all i care it's not going to get me killed. You, maybe.

Even, admitting that you are right and that i am wrong, why don't you use those nice t2 active hardeners ? See, with your calculations, you can have 60% resist to em, 75% resist to explosive, 80% resist to kinetic and 90% resist to thermal. Look, that's even better. Or even better yet, drop the kinetic and explosive hardeners, get an EM hardener, and go npc'ing sanshas or blood raiders with 100% resist to EM and 90% resists to thermal. There you go, you can aswell drop half the cap stuffs and only use one armor rep to tank everything.

Hope I didn't sound sarcastic as I was only trying to make a pointTwisted Evil

Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.

Hotice
Posted - 2005.10.14 04:55:00 - [16]
 

5 modulated tachyons(xray/mult F)
3 t2 heavy beams

1 ab
1 webber
2 t2 cap rechargers

2 t2 large repairers
3 hardeners
2 cap power relys.

Can deal with all mission types and kill any mission boss with only hardener change. Tested over 8 months of none stop mission running, never lost 1 ship. 5.1b isk earned. Cool

Ashelth
Caldari
The Raven Warriors
Posted - 2005.10.14 09:30:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Spartan III
my 170 million ISK setup


If you're starting cold to level 4 missions... stick to cheap equipment.


Stephra Parle
Dark Angel Security
Posted - 2005.10.14 09:46:00 - [18]
 

I can't help but feel that this ship needs doughnuts somewhere in its setup...

Spartan III
Xzile-EVE-Corp
Posted - 2005.10.14 11:46:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Hotice
Can deal with all mission types and kill any mission boss with only hardener change. Tested over 8 months of none stop mission running, never lost 1 ship. 5.1b isk earned. Cool



Can I pm you in game to talk about your strategys for various level 4 missions?

danneh
Amarr
V0LTA
Posted - 2005.10.14 12:53:00 - [20]
 

Mega Beam II > Tachyon II.

Spartan III
Xzile-EVE-Corp
Posted - 2005.10.14 13:27:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: danneh
Mega Beam II > Tachyon II.
Why?

Solarfury
Posted - 2005.10.14 14:31:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Solarfury on 14/10/2005 14:31:44
Tachyon T2 fitting requirment is crazily high. You cannot fit 5 of those and still keep 2 large armor repairers without a PDU. So, it is better to use T2 mega beam since it let you do good damage without lose any tanking.


Hotice
Posted - 2005.10.14 14:34:00 - [23]
 

I'm usually in "lvl4" channel and "missions" channel. So if you got question feel free to send me a mail or ask away in those two channels.Smile

BillyBong2
Amarr
3OO
WE FORM VOLTRON
Posted - 2005.10.14 15:12:00 - [24]
 

I was helping a player last night get their fitting list together for their first Apoc. So, I went with what I had been using:

Highs
6 x Mega Pulse 1
2 x Seige Launchers

Mids
4 x Cap Rechargers I or IIs

Lows
2 x Large Armor Reps
3 x NPC Hardeners
2 x Cap Relays

Then she asked me a question about the Double Heavy Beams....and at first thought they were more CPU, well they were not.

If should get 6 of the named she would be at 2.4 damage modifier and most likely be able to put some Heat Sinks in the Lows due to the less Cap useage. So she could make up the damage with the Heat Sinks.

Thoughts on that?

Pestillence
Revelations Inc.
Shroud Of Darkness
Posted - 2005.10.14 15:25:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: BillyBong2
I was helping a player last night get their fitting list together for their first Apoc. So, I went with what I had been using:

Highs
6 x Mega Pulse 1
2 x Seige Launchers

Mids
4 x Cap Rechargers I or IIs

Lows
2 x Large Armor Reps
3 x NPC Hardeners
2 x Cap Relays

Then she asked me a question about the Double Heavy Beams....and at first thought they were more CPU, well they were not.

If should get 6 of the named she would be at 2.4 damage modifier and most likely be able to put some Heat Sinks in the Lows due to the less Cap useage. So she could make up the damage with the Heat Sinks.

Thoughts on that?


Siege launchers are a big no no. Pulse are too for the reason given. If the person has cpu issues then they need to train electronics and weapons upgrades.

Heat sinks dont use cap, its cpu. Stick with the advice given by the people in this thread

Thomas Torquemada
Minmatar
Universal Peace Corp
Posted - 2005.10.14 16:59:00 - [26]
 

Swap the 2 cruise for a Rocket launcher and an Assault Launcher (Defender Missiles)

And swap the passive hardeners for active tech2's.

The apoc can handle it all NP, and yes the lasers need to be beams or some kind, only use those pulses on a geddon.

Sort your tank first then fit whatever guns you can after that.


 

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