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Andarias
Posted - 2005.10.09 01:52:00 - [1]
 

The new dev blog says that there will be skills that allows passive hardeners to increase their resists. If it's a flat 3% increase per level of the skill, for the damage type of the skill, does that mean that energized nanos will give like 33% to all?

Razner Cerizo
Vale Heavy Industries
Molotov Coalition
Posted - 2005.10.09 02:03:00 - [2]
 

I think it means 3% of the platings resist %.

max, its 15% of the platings 20%... give you a grand total of... 23%.

j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.10.09 02:26:00 - [3]
 

"I think it means 3% of the platings resist %.

max, its 15% of the platings 20%... give you a grand total of... 23%."


From the way blog is worded and from the provided numbers, it seems like this bonus is applied once to active hardeners (and works only while they're turned off o.O) while for passive hardeners it's applied once more on top of that 'active only when in passive mode' bonus, which for passive hardeners is always added because well, they can't be turned on.

So, if this is right, then tech.2 energized plate would result in something like 20% * 1.15 * 1.15 = 26.45% bonus to all resistances with skills maxed out, and tech.1 plate in 15% * 1.15 * 1.15 = ~19.8% to all resistances.

For usual comparison, the tech.1 "invulnerability field" for shield adds 25% to resistances, uses over twice as much cpu to fit, and costs 20 cap/sec to run. Tech.2 field adds 30%, uses also over 2x as much cpu to fit as the tech.2 energized plate, and costs 16 cap/sec to run... ¨¨;;

Razner Cerizo
Vale Heavy Industries
Molotov Coalition
Posted - 2005.10.09 02:27:00 - [4]
 

I bow before the reikoku math goddess. D:

Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2005.10.09 02:30:00 - [5]
 

Imagine one of those Centum adaptive nanos with this Shocked

Jim Raynor
Caldari
Bad Kitty Inc.
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2005.10.09 02:30:00 - [6]
 

Why does CCP refuse to unnerf the Invul Field? :\

j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.10.09 02:34:00 - [7]
 

"Imagine one of those Centum adaptive nanos with this Shocked"

Or better yet, one of these officer membranes...

30.25 -> 40% to all resistances with max skills, for one slot and something like 30 cpu and no cap to run ;.;

keepiru
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2005.10.09 02:40:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: keepiru on 09/10/2005 02:44:31
right but the problem isnt adaptives being too good. its invuls sucking in a major way >.>

i mean, seriously.. i wasnt around to see invinci-scorps, but the same cap draw as an armor repper, thats just silly :s

Jim Raynor
Caldari
Bad Kitty Inc.
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2005.10.09 02:42:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: keepiru
right but the problem isnt adaptives being too good. its invuls sucking in a major way >.>


Invuls are uber if you got Estamels, and a Dreadnoughts Capacitor!!

Man that module is so broken, so energy inefficient, and so lame compared to how good +all resist armor plating membranes are I seriously can't fathom why CCP has not done something to fix this yet.

j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.10.09 02:46:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: j0sephine on 09/10/2005 02:46:22

"right but the problem isnt adaptives being too good. its invuls sucking in a major way >.>"

Yup, i don't think the plates should be changed, really. They're just a living proof there's no reason to keep the shield equivalent nerfed to the stone age, when the original reason for this nerf isn't even part of game mechanics anymore...

(although there might be issue with single type resistance plates *and shield amplifiers*... tech.2 passive plates/amplifiers have 37.5% base bonus, which means with the skill boosts it can seemingly get as high as 49.6 ... i.e. pretty much equal to tech.1 active hardener, and just 5% short of the tech.2 active hardener? o.O; ... and they use way less cpu to fit, on top of that...

keepiru
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2005.10.09 02:49:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: keepiru on 09/10/2005 02:49:41
same for t2 shield resistance amplifiers, lets not talk about those extremely popular 40% ones. those give 52.9% is the 1.15 double bonus is correct.

keepiru
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2005.10.09 02:53:00 - [12]
 

which i suspect isnt correct. reading the blog again, it appears there is only 1 skill.

It gives 3% bonus to a passive hardener, or to an active hardener thats turned off.

j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.10.09 03:04:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: j0sephine on 09/10/2005 03:28:06

"which i suspect isnt correct. reading the blog again, it appears there is only 1 skill.

It gives 3% bonus to a passive hardener, or to an active hardener thats turned off."


edit: scratch the previous reply, figured it out and it'd seem you're right about it.

it's simply the base effect plus up to 15% secondary bonus, and they're stacked together like a pair of 'real' hardeners, one of them having the base value and the other having the bonus value... with stacking penalty applied. this way 32.5% base and 15% bonus results in exactly 42.625 bonus listed in the blog.

So this way, the bonus applied to tech.2 hardener would give something like 46.875% final resistance. Hmm still not bad at all :s~

(although this way of calculating it would mean the adaptive nanos get even bigger boost that it'd initially appear... tech.2 20% membrane would give 32% final result with maxed skill, and tech.1 one -- 27.75%..? eep.

Sadist
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2005.10.09 03:30:00 - [14]
 

J0, sry, but I still dont get it, could you go through the steps with numbers again and say where you got them from?

j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.10.09 03:40:00 - [15]
 

"J0, sry, but I still dont get it, could you go through the steps with numbers again and say where you got them from?"

Resistance stacking calculator

enter the base value of the hardener into the 'base' field and the bonus as the 'hardener 1' and press the button. ^^

e.g. 32.5% base and 15% bonus give 42.625% end result... i think the actual formula for calculating this is in one of the forum stickies ^^;;;

keepiru
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2005.10.09 03:44:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: keepiru on 09/10/2005 03:45:45
Hrm... pretty high values.

Still, thats a *LOT* of sp to have that accross the board. I guess, the idea is that you specialise in the area where your T2 resists are weak.

Still, i cant help but think that a similar skill is needed for active hardeners?

Either that, or the bouns of this one goes to 2%?

edit:scratch that, 42% is a little high, but acceptable. The problem of invuls remains.

Sorja
11th Division
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2005.10.09 03:51:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Jim Raynor
Why does CCP refuse to unnerf the Invul Field? :\


Yes, why?

keepiru
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2005.10.09 03:53:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Sorja
Originally by: Jim Raynor
Why does CCP refuse to unnerf the Invul Field? :\


Yes, why?


maybe theyre fixing security status increases? :))

j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.10.09 03:59:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: j0sephine on 09/10/2005 04:01:17

"edit:scratch that, 42% is a little high, but acceptable. The problem of invuls remains."

Not sure about it all to be honest, if this 'extra hardener' formula is actually correct... i mean, this results in the energized nano (stock tech.2 one) that adds 29.6% to resistances across the board, with 4 skills at lvl.4 which isn't really hard to get at all. (they're either rank 2 or rank 4 if the item database can be believed)

30% to all resistances with single module that takes f.ck all to fit, really... this mean typical armour tank can have: 77.8 / 62.6 / 47.2 / 54.2 resistances, with just two of these nanos and skills at lvl.4 ... now use two other slots for armour repairers, and 4 remaining slots for the damage mods... ouch.

Though i guess as long as i can get equivalent passive amplifier for the shield resistances, i could be convinced this is really all for the better game experience... ;s

Gierling
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2005.10.09 04:41:00 - [20]
 

Uh can we not discuss balance using officer mods.

j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.10.09 04:46:00 - [21]
 

"Uh can we not discuss balance using officer mods."

Uhmm, i was using regular tech.1 and tech.2 gear in most of calculations... officer mods were some kind of curiosity thrown in there once, just for the heck of it o.O;

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2005.10.09 10:10:00 - [22]
 

Donít forget the stacking penalty is being changed so 3 adaptive hardeners are going to give a lot more resistance with the new changes then what we get now. Thatís without the new skills.

Gunstar Zero
Caldari
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2005.10.09 10:32:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Razner Cerizo
I bow before the reikoku math goddess. D:


haha, new in game title coming up

Nafri
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2005.10.09 10:52:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: keepiru
Edited by: keepiru on 09/10/2005 03:45:45
Hrm... pretty high values.

Still, thats a *LOT* of sp to have that accross the board. I guess, the idea is that you specialise in the area where your T2 resists are weak.

Still, i cant help but think that a similar skill is needed for active hardeners?

Either that, or the bouns of this one goes to 2%?

edit:scratch that, 42% is a little high, but acceptable. The problem of invuls remains.


When thy are just lvl2 like the armor skills, thats done in a few weeks

Bruchpilot
Shinra
Posted - 2005.10.09 11:49:00 - [25]
 

So 3 nanos will give more res than 3 50% hardener for a lot less cpu? Is that right?

What about shieldtankers? Invulnerability field should be passive and get this bonus as well and use a bit less CPU (like 50tf).

Gunstar Zero
Caldari
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2005.10.09 11:51:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Jim Raynor
Originally by: keepiru
right but the problem isnt adaptives being too good. its invuls sucking in a major way >.>


Invuls are uber if you got Estamels, and a Dreadnoughts Capacitor!!

Man that module is so broken, so energy inefficient, and so lame compared to how good +all resist armor plating membranes are I seriously can't fathom why CCP has not done something to fix this yet.


It's not broken, it's a Caldari module.

Bruchpilot
Shinra
Posted - 2005.10.09 11:58:00 - [27]
 

So Minmatar aren't allowed to use it?Rolling Eyes

Gunstar Zero
Caldari
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2005.10.09 11:59:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Bruchpilot
So Minmatar aren't allowed to use it?Rolling Eyes


yes, if they wish to suck as bad as a caldari ship.

Sangxianc
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.10.09 12:02:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Gunstar Zero
Originally by: Bruchpilot
So Minmatar aren't allowed to use it?Rolling Eyes

yes, if they wish to suck as bad as a caldari ship.

Lolz.

Zyrla Bladestorm
Minmatar
Foundation
R0ADKILL
Posted - 2005.10.09 12:02:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Bruchpilot
So 3 nanos will give more res than 3 50% hardener for a lot less cpu? Is that right?

What about shieldtankers? Invulnerability field should be passive and get this bonus as well and use a bit less CPU (like 50tf).


I was wondering that, will these changes mean the invuln fields give 12-15% resist across the board when turned off ?

While still pretty poor, they might not be totally useless like that Shocked

(And if they don't get the effects when turned off, someone needs shooting Wink)


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