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Johnathan Roark
Caldari
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2005.10.05 17:40:00 - [1]
 

Right now, ISS is in the process of releasing stock shares for an outpost project. We have not yet seen if it will work, still to early. I am hoping it works for different reasons. I want to see a stock market in eve like the box said there would be when I purchased the game over two years ago.

They have done there research and presented a plan to the community. They are now in the process of selling the first shares in there project. It looks like there IPO will go smoth.

Could this model of releasing stock to the public and offering dividends to shareholders work in eve? I see the main problem is being trust. It is hard to get people to invest in a project when they have no idea if the project will even go forward. This is working for ISS because a lot of the eve community and investors know ISS and have no problem trusting them. Smaller projects I could see investors putting a little isk into just because they have more than enough isk and if it is legit it could pay off.

Would other corporations and groups attempt this? It has both advantages and disadvantages. The main advantages is that offering an IPO will help raise isk to perform the project and it also helps draw public attention to your business. The main disadvantage is that what corporation has worked so hard to achieve isk and become successful and the reward is being divided up among those that did none of the work. I think ISS is taking a management fee to solve that problem.

I would like to see the ISS margins project succeed. I would also like to see other groups and corporations come up with projects that they can also offer stock to investors and generate dividends. This could help in the birth of a stock market in eve, even if it is not coded into the game. Maybe CCP will help by providing tools so we can manage and trade our shares with fewer problems.

DaBagboy Rizster
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2005.10.06 16:16:00 - [2]
 

I had the same / similar questions...
are the NPC corp stocks traded?
I was surfing the "backstory" and found this:
Transteller

Quote:

Ticker: TSS
Size: Huge
Extent: Global
Headquarters: Doussivitte VIII - Moon 20 - TransStellar Shipping Storage
Offices: 90 in 53 systems
Shares: 26106939313
Share price: 37
Share holders:
TransStellar Shipping 60%
Aliastra 25%
Salvation Angels 10%
Activity: Warehouse
Partner: Aliastra
Competitor: Combined Harvest


Clearly the designers imagined this concept? Has it been implemnted at all?

The concept is awesome....the potential for a stock market would be amazing, daily/weekly dividends paid according to shares owned? Even if most of the "ownership" among it's own current employees I'd love to join a corp that was implementing this concept.

Feta Solamnia
Posted - 2005.10.09 17:35:00 - [3]
 

"stock" and "loans" programmes have been offered before from people that commanded the respect and trust of a group of investors.

Such a kind of programme cannot appear in the public forums (but it has appeared before) since the target audience is by far not the one randomly browsing.
It is all about trust, hence it goes interpesonally rather than the public availability one would expect with shares.

Finally, I do have my own thoughts about the marginis project. I did not share them in their posts so I don't discourage people or tramp all over their threads. But this is a chance for me to share my viewpoint on this:
The marginis projects is noble indeed.
It is also very optimistic, I mean VERY optimistic.
I do think they failed to take into account the political reprecussions above all, the economical as second.
A station where everybody can dock? NOT good. Right now the south may be in a relative state of peace, but this is actually the first time that has ever happened and I don't expect it to last long. When war ensues, marginis will be in deep **** and it will probably be taken from the most likely unable military forces of ISS. And no, mercenaries cannot save the situation because either the mercenaries will be overrun, or the project will start loosing endless ISK by the amazingly big costs of the mercenaries. Also, bear in mind that once marginis is under attack, it is going to cost butloads of isk just because the POS that protect it is put into reinforced mode.
Also, take a peek at RA tactics. I bet they can bring down marginis on their own.
Even if marginis manages to strike into the hearts of all the south (a.k.a. they all have interests/shares in the project), I don't think that will be a deterrent enough when real war starts.
Also, IF marginins is successfull in the short-term, it will be a prime camping point when war starts, and it will end up being kind of dead after a few camping weeks.

Finally, the financial plan. They have made a very good job estimating the profits/costs, but I think they are over-confident that
a) People will actually show up AND pay their tariffs
b) Their costs will not jump up because of unexpected happenings (war).

Anyway, I like the idea and I'd love them to prove me wrong, but given the current state of EVE I think this project is overly optimistic.
I'd love to see if their share sales are completed, because I know people playing with billions need to have loose ties in plans more than covered. And as one of them, I believe it has quite a few holes in it and my investment would have a very big chances of falling out.
Let me say it otherwise: If I'm expected to invest billions with a high risk of loosing them forever, I'd either expect VERY fast payback(like 1-3 months) or HUGE profits, in the area of 500-1000% of the initial investment within a year.

Johnathan Roark
Caldari
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2005.10.10 06:09:00 - [4]
 

yea, i have seen some small stuff, normally by small corps that really never get off the ground.

With the locking down of BPOs, i see investments in corporations a closer posiblity. I think the main problem is a corporations ability to stand out and provide something unique.

yea, politics may ruin there plans, but it seams, at least for the time being, most of the alliances in the south have a NAP with them. On the chance it works, ive purchased my shares and i am hoping for the best.

Omber Zombie
Gallente
Frontier Technologies
Posted - 2005.10.10 09:56:00 - [5]
 

I think the ISS idea is fantastic, and depending on how it goes, it could end up being a template for other similar types of alliances to build up 0.0

BIG has been running their battleship bpo stock program for a while now, and afaik it has worked, so there is no reason for this one to fail. BIG has seen a lot of major wars since they started the program, and it hasn't really affected them (at least not obviously)

I too have been waiting to see stockmarket trading in this game, and this may end up being the start of it.

Count TaSessine
Koshaku
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
Posted - 2005.10.10 09:58:00 - [6]
 

Hello

Great thread, and, unsurprisingly, I totally support an expansion of the ingame possibilities nested in the embryonic shape of the current share system in Eve.

FYI We sold the last remaining shares in ISS Marginis Outpost last night.

As Feta correctly points out, there are risks involved in this project. Risk is inherent with all leaps forward. We believe the risks are manageable AND we believe there is a future for an outpost in 0.0 space which basically remains accessible to all pilots in Eve. We have discussed this in detail with the local alliances. Their members have invested in it, and I think most of them appreciate the infrastructure upgrade it represents for their regions.

If we stay OOC for a minute, you can say the outpost adds a bit of diversity to the landscape in Eve, being neutral and accessible to all, and as some probably realise, diversity equals fun. After the IPO process started, we discovered that it appeals to a lot of sci-fi guys and girls who have watched Babylon 5. That's quality gameplay for me. Something that tickles the imagination, allows you to build and develop on your own personal storyline in Eve.

At this time, 0.0 is a pretty non-descript experience. Lots of solar systems, with PCS scattered around. All the PCS are in the hands of this faction or that, and closed to foreigners, which invariably is something like 95+% of the Eve-community. No surprise the markets have never taken off in these stations. And its no surprise either that the factions close them off - from a military point of view they must.

I see this outpost as the first attempt to paint the backdrop of deep space with a couple of new colors Smile




Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2005.10.10 16:13:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Feta Solamnia
a) People will actually show up AND pay their tariffs


You can't *not* pay a docking fee. Its automatically charged.

Lacero Callrisian
Minmatar
Solar Storm
Sev3rance
Posted - 2005.10.11 18:52:00 - [8]
 

I think expecting the local alliances to not attack the outpost because of investments is misguided.

It cost 36B to construct, one alliance may have invested say 10% of that. So if they attack it they get an Outpost for 10% of cost.

However I invested because I think the alliances see the benefit it will bring to our region of space. And when other regions of 0.0 get jealous of that they can set up their own.

And hey, if anyone does come to take it we all get free target practice :)

Hans Fortean
Casting Shadows
Posted - 2005.10.12 14:26:00 - [9]
 

Sure someone can attack and capture it. But then they have another military outpost that costs resources to maintain. The benefit of a neutral base is that all kinds of people can make use of it. Including people that are potential targets for the pvpers. This does not have to be some carebear facility for miners in deep space! Anything that helps bridge the gap between Empire and 0.0 is a good thing. Selling stock and involving more people from different backgrounds/corps can help that succeed. Good luck people!

Count TaSessine
Koshaku
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
Posted - 2005.10.13 07:22:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Count TaSessine on 13/10/2005 07:22:53
Edited by: Count TaSessine on 13/10/2005 07:22:18
Originally by: Hans Fortean
Sure someone can attack and capture it. But then they have another military outpost that costs resources to maintain. The benefit of a neutral base is that all kinds of people can make use of it. Including people that are potential targets for the pvpers. This does not have to be some carebear facility for miners in deep space! Anything that helps bridge the gap between Empire and 0.0 is a good thing. Selling stock and involving more people from different backgrounds/corps can help that succeed. Good luck people!


Good point - maintaining the outpost, paying fuel for the many sovereignty keeping starbases, is very expensive (not to mention a pain in the butt logistically) and only a fraction of them can be rentable.


Dahin
Maza Nostra
HELL4S
Posted - 2005.10.13 14:38:00 - [11]
 

Ehm, I remember that you can opt to destroy the outpost rather than capture it if I remember correctly...

Heeeere lille big target Very Happy
(I want to be on another 1-st kill vid XD)

Hans Fortean
Casting Shadows
Posted - 2005.10.18 14:16:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Dahin
Ehm, I remember that you can opt to destroy the outpost rather than capture it if I remember correctly...

Heeeere lille big target Very Happy
(I want to be on another 1-st kill vid XD)


If you think about it, you could be denying yourself viable targets in the future. I guess it depends on whether you would rather destroy a POS/Starbase because you can or rack up killmails from the people that would inevitably use it... YARRRR!!


 

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