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blankseplocked [Petition] Nerf alts
 
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JoeSomebody
No Trademark
Notoriety Alliance
Posted - 2005.10.04 18:52:00 - [1]
 

There is just way too much alt griefing these days. Noob scouts roaming around more than real players. Most of escrow scamming made by alts, etc.

What I suggest is limitations on characters with low ammount of skill points. Hold your horses guys, i know what you gonna say. I know EVE has to be a fair game for both newbs and long time players. But at the same time when i was a newb I did not have items that would worth millions of isk on escrow, I did not go to low security space, I sat in my home system, ran missions and mined scordite. And Im sure 99% of the new players do the same.

For instance what I would like to be introduced is sp limitation on players who can enter 0.0-0.4. Say 2-3mil sp before you can enter systems with security status below 0.5.
Low sec space is simply plagued by noob-scouts. Both carebears and pvpers agressively abusing them. This has to be stopped Mad. Ofcourse you can kill them, but there is no fun nor honor in killing shuttle/noobship... plus you gonna be flagged for the next 15 minutes, while that bastard will be back in 5.
Now let me get this straight. There is nothing wrong with scouting. There is everything wrong with abusing game system to gain advantage for no loss.

What Im trying to say is that EVE has to be more pesonalized, where each character is someone specific. People should not be able to throw 0 sp char into shuttle and run it into enemy fleet/camp to scout it. People should be more afraid of loosing ships/pods or getting banned, and that can be done by forcing them to train skills on secondary characters before they can be used for scouting or trading or something else.


Elfaen Ethenwe
Infusion.
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2005.10.04 21:43:00 - [2]
 

or not.

live with it

Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol
Mercenaries of Andosia
Veritas Immortalis
Posted - 2005.10.05 01:13:00 - [3]
 

i was in 0.0 my first week ugh

Gronsak
Amarr
Posted - 2005.10.05 02:19:00 - [4]
 

humm, it is a problem,

worst type is when ppl use the free 14 day trial to make a noob alt to scout ect

should be an ip block in 14day trails so only can be done once


Etto Neppeo
ENACO
Posted - 2005.10.05 03:27:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Etto Neppeo on 05/10/2005 03:39:22
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the newb alts. In the real world you can easily have some beggar to scout for you for a piece of bread, and in the eve's world thare are many more solutions, like making a biorobot from a clone to do simple tasks for you. The additional slots are just that - biorobots, however you can't have more than 2 of them at a one time :) I even think that this is intended by the devs since there is absolutely no other uses for those.

It's a complex world, without easy solutions. Live with it...

The 14 day trial is not a problem. You need only 1 addition acc to create scout alts, since you can easily recycle old biorobot and create the new one - takes only 10 hours.

On the escrow problem - actually, newb alts don't have anything to do with its problems. You have a dialog now that lets you see the contents of the escrow before accepting it. This eliminates any useful scamming in a sense that no sane person will accept a fraudulent escrow. However, there is a problem with the limited escwor window, but face it - if there weren't newb fraud deals in it, the problem still would not be solved - escrow window is still too small. So it is escrow that needs to be fixed, not newb alts nerfed...

Sanaen Eydanwadh
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2005.10.05 10:12:00 - [6]
 

*signed* with both hand, feets and the noze, for the "nerf alts" title. Solution is bad though - I don't see why newbies couldn't access low-sec space if they want to !?
Alts are the plague of EVE... And the worst thing is, most people "live with it" and "adapt" (since they read these forums too much instead of getting a clue), and create their own alts. They don't even think about playing with other players for scouting, hauling, mining, agentwhoring, whatever - they use alts for anything... So, yes, it's seen as "normal" now, but that doesn't forbid me to think it's a bad and sad thing. Not only the "griefing" alts (suicides, scammers...), but all the "utility" alts make me cry...

Fight against slavery ! don't use characters as tools! Free your personae !!!

Derisor
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2005.10.05 10:53:00 - [7]
 

Id be keen for one player, one account. If you want an alt you will at least have to fork over real cash for it.

JoeSomebody
No Trademark
Notoriety Alliance
Posted - 2005.10.05 13:35:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Sanaen Eydanwadh
*signed* with both hand, feets and the noze, for the "nerf alts" title. Solution is bad though - I don't see why newbies couldn't access low-sec space if they want to !?
Alts are the plague of EVE... And the worst thing is, most people "live with it" and "adapt" (since they read these forums too much instead of getting a clue), and create their own alts. They don't even think about playing with other players for scouting, hauling, mining, agentwhoring, whatever - they use alts for anything... So, yes, it's seen as "normal" now, but that doesn't forbid me to think it's a bad and sad thing. Not only the "griefing" alts (suicides, scammers...), but all the "utility" alts make me cry...

Fight against slavery ! don't use characters as tools! Free your personae !!!
well, as far as i know many games, including mmorpg's have character level limitation for entering areas with high level npc's and stuff, so I see nothing wrong with little discrimination. And again 2 mil sp isnt really that much. It is about time required to get hang of game basics.
From RP perspective it can be explained as Concord being worried about new capsuler safety.

Resin Kadir
S.A.S
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2005.10.05 14:04:00 - [9]
 

How about like EQ2 where trialists are limited to a certain region??

Ofcourse my account has an alt on it that checks empire prices for me and occasionally and camps pirate haunts for some action but most 14day trialers are either accounts that existing players are planning on using as alternate characters permanently or they are new users.

Someone explain what griefing is to these people. There's pirating, which is perfectly legal, and then there's griefing which is bannable. And as for escrow scams, get smarter. Look at prices twice and examine before you buy.

As for staying in empire and mining.... 3 weeks into eve I was ninja mining in 0.0 evading both the local alliance and rats. AND I was podded weekly... or at a minimum lol. Whyare you complaining about something so fun, that I bet you occasionaly do as well, just because you lost a ship or got made because your fleet sat at a gate instead of sitting in deadspace or at a moon.

People who complain about in game mechanics out of selfishness do two things

1. They cause the devs to stop listening or listen less attentively
2. They cause more hardship on existing players.

Be more constructive and think it over more first before you come here and start "nagging." I'm not flaming you, I'm just giving my two cents as you did. And yes I read your entire post.

I'm Resin kadir and I hate Danton Marcellus.

Resin Kadir
S.A.S
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2005.10.05 14:09:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Resin Kadir on 05/10/2005 14:10:05
Originally by: Derisor
Id be keen for one player, one account. If you want an alt you will at least have to fork over real cash for it.


/signed/signed/signed/signed/signed/signed/signed/signed/signed/signed/signed/
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Shoulda been done with COLD WAR hence the lack of information.

Joshua Foiritain
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Naraka.
Posted - 2005.10.05 14:24:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Derisor
Id be keen for one player, one account. If you want an alt you will at least have to fork over real cash for it.

And what about those of us who already have 2 or 3 trained characters on one account?

JoeSomebody
No Trademark
Notoriety Alliance
Posted - 2005.10.05 14:47:00 - [12]
 

Resin Kadir
you making false assumptions about my motivations, to make it look like im whining. That _is_ called flaming in case you didnt know.

Joshua
well congrats, you are uber... most ppl are not. That does not make the idea of limiting low sp characters to high sec space any worse (or different).

Gibson Grey
Gallente
Posted - 2005.10.05 16:21:00 - [13]
 

Hmm... there simply has to be a better solution to this than trying to limit players to certain areas. Kinda goes against one of the neat things about Eve where you're free to go where you want and do what you want.

I could see some merit in maybe limiting to one character per account, but it's a little late in the game to be doing that as well. As has been said, this wouldn't be very fair to players who have spent time training more than one character per account.

Resin Kadir
S.A.S
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2005.10.05 16:27:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Resin Kadir on 05/10/2005 16:28:59
Originally by: JoeSomebody
Resin Kadir
you making false assumptions about my motivations, to make it look like im whining. That _is_ called flaming in case you didnt know.

Joshua
well congrats, you are uber... most ppl are not. That does not make the idea of limiting low sp characters to high sec space any worse (or different).


Okay, now I'll flame. You're request lacks both the well thought through reasoning and phrasing to be considered anything but whining and you're not very nice to talk to either lol.

Any why on earth should low SP characters be limited to certain areas and what would the limitation be anyway. It's space where anyone wcould do anything. WHat are you? A 7mil sp character who thinks he's god now? At what level would you set the bar for allowing character SP into low sec? If you've got a complaint, back it up with a detailed fix, not half assed.

Wahad Bredkebir
Minmatar
The Wings of Maak
Posted - 2005.10.05 16:57:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Originally by: Derisor
Id be keen for one player, one account. If you want an alt you will at least have to fork over real cash for it.

And what about those of us who already have 2 or 3 trained characters on one account?


All your skill point goes to the main char of your choice in the same skill, if the skill is already maxed, you have the right to choose 2 or 3 skills to redirect the difference.

Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2005.10.05 17:29:00 - [16]
 

If we could only have one char per account, people would just use MORE trial accounts for their alt fun.

Joshua Foiritain
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Naraka.
Posted - 2005.10.05 17:47:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: JoeSomebody
Joshua
well congrats, you are uber... most ppl are not. That does not make the idea of limiting low sp characters to high sec space any worse (or different).

I wasnt talking to you, i was talking to the guy who said get rid of all alts and limit accounts to one 1 character.

As you might have notoiced by the quote.

JoeSomebody
No Trademark
Notoriety Alliance
Posted - 2005.10.06 02:07:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Resin Kadir
Edited by: Resin Kadir on 05/10/2005 16:28:59
Originally by: JoeSomebody
Resin Kadir
you making false assumptions about my motivations, to make it look like im whining. That _is_ called flaming in case you didnt know.

Joshua
well congrats, you are uber... most ppl are not. That does not make the idea of limiting low sp characters to high sec space any worse (or different).


Okay, now I'll flame. You're request lacks both the well thought through reasoning and phrasing to be considered anything but whining and you're not very nice to talk to either lol.

Any why on earth should low SP characters be limited to certain areas and what would the limitation be anyway. It's space where anyone wcould do anything. WHat are you? A 7mil sp character who thinks he's god now? At what level would you set the bar for allowing character SP into low sec? If you've got a complaint, back it up with a detailed fix, not half assed.
well, i can say same thing about you... You abuse game mechanics to gain advantage over players who likes to play fair game. You think that makes you smarter and more adapted. And now you whining because someone decided to take away your win button. You are griefer sir, and you lack manners.

Now about my idea. There isnt really much details to my fix, simply because it was already implemented by most modern (mmo)rpg. Take any game and you will see that you need level/skill/item to get into more advanced areas of the game world. I see no reason why EVE should be different. Im sorry, but I dont know if I can put this into more simple words to make it look whole-assed to you.

sonofollo
Caldari
Doomheim
Posted - 2005.10.06 03:30:00 - [19]
 

alts to stay 4tw

Mnengli Noiliffe
Posted - 2005.10.06 04:42:00 - [20]
 

You think it's unfair to use alts, I think it's unfair to camp on the gates. Now given the fact that neither of these actions are considered an exploit by the GM, they in fact are both fair enough to be used by anybody. Unless you are a mindless egotist that thinks that his personal opinion is >> all others.

JoeSomebody
No Trademark
Notoriety Alliance
Posted - 2005.10.06 19:04:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe
You think it's unfair to use alts, I think it's unfair to camp on the gates. Now given the fact that neither of these actions are considered an exploit by the GM, they in fact are both fair enough to be used by anybody. Unless you are a mindless egotist that thinks that his personal opinion is >> all others.
i made this thread because of something I believe in. If you believe in gate camps being unfair, then you are welcome to make your own thread.

Elfaen Ethenwe
Infusion.
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2005.10.07 08:00:00 - [22]
 

ok, a longer response.

I will list the pros and cons of alts.

Pro's

Lets you check market in a different area.
Lets you without risk check if the gate is camped
Lets you without risk check the composition of forces camping a gate
Lets you recover loot dropped during a war
Lets you bypass camps without getting blown up
Note most of teh above dont count in 0.0)

Cons

Makes camping gates harder as anyone with half a brain has a scout in front. Too big a camp they go somewhere else or log.
Gives away your uber fleet makeup. Oh dear a fairer fight
Cant blow them up even when you know the primary character is actualy at war with you.




Come on people, live with it.
If EVE was real you would hire people give them a cheap clone and send them out to die. Life is cheap in eve.

Sanaen Eydanwadh
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2005.10.07 10:50:00 - [23]
 

mind if I complete your list?

Originally by: El**** Ethenwe
ok, a longer response.

Pro's

some things you could achieve better/ with more fun/ involvement with some friends or mates

Cons

Makes camping gates harder as anyone with half a brain has a scout in front. Too big a camp they go somewhere else or log.
Gives away your uber fleet makeup. Oh dear a fairer fight eeeer sorry what?
Cant blow them up even when you know the primary character is actualy at war with you.

works again the "multiplayer" part of the game
works against the "roleplaying" part of the game
works again the "game" part of the game
(also quiet weird about the "massively" part - how many REAL players are there when 12K characters online? ^^)
Authorize people to act like irresponsible kids
Spoils the fun for other people ("hey my friend, could you check that gate for me quickly please?" Arrow "WTF use an alt u n00b" )

ah, and: maks SanaŽn sad



Originally by: El**** Ethenwe
If EVE was real you would hire people give them a cheap clone and send them out to die.

Sure. Hire people then, not alts?
But once again, obviously we all "live with it"... personnally I wouldn't say it's lame (mmh sometimes I would ;) ), just a sad fact which spoils a lot of fun in EVE.

arutha
Jian Products Engineering Group
Atlas.
Posted - 2005.10.07 11:34:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: arutha on 07/10/2005 11:34:51
why should i lose my 6.5 million combat alt . he is very very usefull too me as a forward scout with the abilitey too take out someone elses scout i put time and effort into training him . i lost time on my mai n character in training and u guys want too strip me off him ?

same goes with my 1.4 million iterion 5 hauler alt

these characters toock me time too build and toock away time from my main . i dont in the leasat regret that . but what you suggest makes no sense . will i be compensated with the points made . pur into my main character if alts are removed ?

Taawus
Posted - 2005.10.07 12:34:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: JoeSomebody
There is just way too much alt griefing these days. Noob scouts roaming around more than real players. Most of escrow scamming made by alts, etc.




alts in 0.4-0.0 yeah but what about alts in 0.5-1.0 who buying stuff to haul it in to 0.0 where main get this stuff?
if u are killer then stay in 0.0

JoeSomebody
No Trademark
Notoriety Alliance
Posted - 2005.10.07 13:06:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Taawus
Originally by: JoeSomebody
There is just way too much alt griefing these days. Noob scouts roaming around more than real players. Most of escrow scamming made by alts, etc.




alts in 0.4-0.0 yeah but what about alts in 0.5-1.0 who buying stuff to haul it in to 0.0 where main get this stuff?
if u are killer then stay in 0.0
1) you cant haul stuff with 0 sp.
2) you cant haul stuff in noobship or shuttle
Two of those points make that alt worth killing. However you dont need any of those things to scout.

Adio
Posted - 2005.10.07 21:06:00 - [27]
 

You people are forgeting what joe said in the first place. He said put SP locks on gates not to completly kill all alts. I personaly dont like that idea and i say the people who disagree just live with it.

Gwenvahar
Posted - 2005.10.07 23:48:00 - [28]
 

DEV's hate the alts, at least Oveur has said so, and I have to agree with the DEV's on this one. I'd be absolutely happy with one and only one character per account. I don't give a flip about how much effort anyone has put into an alt, its potential for abuse outwieghs it potential for overall game enjoyment. As many players will tell you, alts are used to explot other players in scams or griefing and so on. Besides less alts = more subsriptions as those players who absolutely need multiple cahracters can still do so, at an increased cost to them. I can barely afford the account I have, I'd have to be foolish or obsessed to buy a second for my own use.

Mnengli Noiliffe
Posted - 2005.10.08 11:43:00 - [29]
 

Not on topic but still.
Newb can't haul? Minmatars start with frig 4, command 3. All you have to do is train min industrial to level 2 which takes a few hours, and there you get the 10k m3 cargo hauler, member of rms for less than a day.

Mnengli Noiliffe
Posted - 2005.10.08 11:56:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Mnengli Noiliffe on 08/10/2005 12:28:46
And what will it ever solve?
Ok suppose there are sp locks. Now the person that desires safety trains for self a scout to that SP. Currently for 2-3mil SP restriction the clone costs cheap enough to afford it when the stakes are high... Are you ready to increase the cost of clones so that the scouts won't be profitable? i.e. so that the money man looses at a camp would be less than the cost of a clone for that number of SP.


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