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Miso
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.08.01 08:58:00 - [31]
 

"We dance round in a ring and suppose,
But the Secret sits in the middle and knows"

;)

Morkt Drakt
Caldari
Black Omega Security
Posted - 2003.08.01 13:40:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Morkt Drak on 08/08/2003 14:35:56

Riz Lancaster
Caldari
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.08.01 14:12:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Riz Lancaster on 01/08/2003 14:13:52
Well, this just proves it. Morkt is out to get TTI, not in reporting constructive news reports. He writes one sided and unimpartial information. I really think something about TTI hit him hard and personal. Otherwise, the majority of his MDW wouldn't be all about TTI. Nor would he be "Pressing the Issue" with more articles as IF the "Fate of TTI was at stake." There's alot more going on out in the Galaxy, but Morkt's put his "media thumb" down on people's public opinion on TTI.

And people not taking a liking to this Press Release due to the fact that, THAT THEY DID NOT HEAR WHAT THEY WANTED TO HEAR. All people wanted to hear is how bad TTI could possibly be and give all more reason to hate and despise the TTI.

I can understand debates and all, but you don't throw debating each writer's capability of giving out constructive news as well as impartial.

News casters striking out at news casters...Striking out at grammatical errors...so childish. I thought you would have left that kind of adolescent behaviour at the Training School you were brought up in.

At least Jade had the decency to get as much info as she did on several aspects and left it open for the reader to decide on what they want to believe. And to shame a person's article, can you get anymore disrespectful?

I have now decided to stop reading the MDW for now I know for a fact that Morkt's not out there to find the truth or be informative. And I am certainly glad that the majority of citizens of the EVE Galaxy don't even bother with Gal-net and have to read his one sided, biased filth.

And I cannot wait for Morkt's response to this. He probably has something witty to comment or found something to attack in my poster.

*Note: I am not a TTI-Lover because I expect more trash talking to ensue from Morkt and others about other regions as their situations arise. I am neither for or against TTI or their philosphies. I am mostly replying on the poor journalism and poor debating I might add.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2003.08.01 14:26:00 - [34]
 

Quote:
I am mostly replying on the poor journalism and poor debating I might add.


Monsieur Lancaster, I am sorry you found the standard of debate to be poor, I was personally somewhat surprised and disappointed at the tact the detractors of my press release chose to take.

It is pretty clear that the diversionary surfacing of this "mole" persona did damage the integrity of the debate by deflecting analysis of the facts previously clearly stated, into a rather purile display of linguistic tomfoolery and surreal decent into psuedo smackesq witticisms.

Still, if the only questions raised against the truth so spoken pertain to the quasimythical status of the TTI "mole" ... one can only assume that the whole of my press release has been accepted at face value.

And that is after all, the purpose of corporate communications and public relations.

Always in the service of beauty m'dear

Miso
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.08.01 14:28:00 - [35]
 

You do seem to have a somewhat unhealthy obssession with TTi Morkt. I am no lover of the corp myself, but I cannot understand your single-minded bitterness towards them. There are many corps and alliances guilty of greed, complacency and moral ineptitude - why not spread your investigative net further afield?


M0RPHEUS
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.08.01 17:12:00 - [36]
 

why the hell did my post get deleted? Morkt, ur a dumbass :)

Exioce
Gallente
Trisomy 21
Posted - 2003.08.01 17:34:00 - [37]
 

Jade Constantine, you da hotness Embarassed

Tehel Necrona
Minmatar
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2003.08.01 18:36:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: Tehel Necrona on 01/08/2003 18:37:06
Edited by: Tehel Necrona on 01/08/2003 18:36:42
"And bent with jellously and hatred the journalist vented his thoughts without care and thought".

I salute you Jade. fantastic post and all the answers are there, now may we please move on.

Regards
Tehel

Princess Akmazara
Posted - 2003.08.01 20:12:00 - [39]
 

As a responsible journalist I seek the truth. After barely escaping Venal with my life I can appreciate the might of the TTI military.

Still, it is clear they are in league with several recognized pirate corporations. Is this in iteself damning? No, of course not, but it is a clear demonstration of ethics.

I asked awhile back why everyone hates TTI and to be honest no one gave me a good answer. I myself (using an ingame character) dislike their obsession with personal wealth instead of helping the poor and disadvantaged of the galaxy. I'd like to see CCP put a tax on big megacorps and help the poor.

We all have a moral obligation to help the disadvantaged Caldari, Gallante and Amarr. Of course the Minmatar know their place already.

Princess Akmazara
Amarrian Empire

Harry Q
Posted - 2003.08.02 10:53:00 - [40]
 

Quote:

I asked awhile back why everyone hates TTI and to be honest no one gave me a good answer. Princess Akmazara
Amarrian Empire



"Hate" is the wrong word, Milady - "despise" is more appropriate. Sadly TTI bring back those memories of a neutral nation famed for its banking in troubled times on Old Earth eons ago. Opportunists with few moral values and even less scruples about lining their own pockets without thought as to the source of that income. Does a mattress stuffed with Isk make sleeping with your conscience any easy? Maybe for some.

One can respect a foe who battles bravely and with honour - one cannot respect a worm who's affilliations change with the wind with the sole purpose of avoiding conflict and maintaining their wealth creation process. To what end? I for one would rather be poor and respected by friend and foe alike as opposed to wealthy and despised. Each to their own.

Fear not, Princess - at some point the minions of TTI will learn that respect (if they wish having it) is not earned by sheer wealth alone, but by actions that require a degree of spine which worms sadly lack. It may take a long time for TTI to gain the respect of others after their behaviour thus far, but I for one see no reason that they will not achieve this to some degree given time. OK, admittedly a lot of time...

Setec
Caldari
The Graduates
Posted - 2003.08.02 13:57:00 - [41]
 

Such an excellent factual post by Jade, and the tabloids still leap to twist it into sensational conclusions. It's... it's like real life!

Tehel Necrona
Minmatar
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2003.08.03 19:29:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Tehel Necrona on 03/08/2003 19:30:26
I know my place? You insult my corp and my race in the same speech.

Your tounge is more of a pirate than i will ever be, fear not it will not have the last say.

-Tehel

Taggart
Minmatar.

Joshua Calvert
Caldari
Rule One
Posted - 2003.08.03 21:01:00 - [43]
 

Can someone explain what this means exactly?

Jade speaks beautifully but I'm too lazy to untangle it all.

j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2003.08.03 21:41:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: j0sephine on 03/08/2003 21:43:18

"Can someone explain what this means exactly?

Jade speaks beautifully but I'm too lazy to untangle it all."


Taggart used to be part of Venal Alliance.

Taggart is now again part of the Venal Alliance.

As a part of the Venal Alliance Taggart feels no obligation to conform to the laws of any of the Imperial states, and does not recognize validity of the said Imperial states labelling some of the members of the Venal Alliance as criminals.

'tis about sums it up. :s

Macumba
Minmatar
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.08.03 21:42:00 - [45]
 

Basically, TTI like pirates. The rest is just padding.

Oh, and their own staff are incapable of putting together a decent press release so they get poor misguided Jade to do it for them.

Yoshokun
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2003.08.04 01:53:00 - [46]
 

I would like to salute Jade for her wonderful, professional manner. The Venal Alliance should be proud to have such a wonderful and beautiful spokesperson.

M0RPHEUS
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.08.04 02:57:00 - [47]
 

Nobody appointed her as the spokesperson...Shocked

j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2003.08.04 03:40:00 - [48]
 

"Nobody appointed her as the spokesperson..."

... Perhaps the Venal Guardians just weren't found important enough to get the memo? In the spirit of TTi being "no more nor less significant than any other power represented amongst the owner-captains of the Venal Alliance"... :s

(am honestly sorry; genuinely trying to stay objective about the whole TTi thing, being it's Caldari company and all... but some of these tidbits are simply too delicious to refrain from poking fun at them....)

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2003.08.04 03:43:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Jade Constantine on 04/08/2003 03:45:13

Greetings one and all, having just returned from a few days planetside R&R in Luminaire system I’ll offer a quick medley of responses to points raised in my absence;

Princess Akmazara
Quote:
We all have a moral obligation to help the disadvantaged Caldari, Gallante and Amarr. Of course the Minmatar know their place already.

I assume m’dear Princess that you mean that as a people already familiar with state tyranny and the hideous criminality of totalitarian government, the Minmatar occupy a unique position of understanding pertaining to the plight of such socially disadvantaged slaves of the victim proletariat caste? Or at least, I hope that is what you mean.

Harry Q
Quote:
To what end? I for one would rather be poor and respected by friend and foe alike as opposed to wealthy and despised.

Though your statement is ostensibly laudable from the context of self-denying martyrdom if nothing else, it cloaks a somewhat foolish misapprehension of the nature of the universe monsieur. I would say that an idealist without a gun is a cause without a champion and a dream without the possibility of fulfilment. If you want to change the world my friend you must acquire the means to do it. The true challenge is maintaining a clear sense of morality and vision in the face of wide temptation and encroaching despair. Do not believe for a moment that wealth and aspiration is the sole corrupting influence vying for control of mankind’s soul and true potential … despair, lassitude, hopeless ennui, these are the pits and snares that tyranny hurls in the path of true revolutionary change and the dawning of a better day. Do not despise the means to exercise power, as any who was once a slave knows very well, the ability to alter reality and change one’s personal fortune is a treasure without compare.

Setec
Quote:
… and the tabloids still leap to twist it into sensational conclusions. It's... it's like real life!

Alas so monsieur highwayman, ‘tis always the case, take the wind from the sails of sensationalist speculation with the naked truth, and always the pack demands to see beyond the next curtain of grand revelation. Its always a hard thing to accept that the last present is denuded of filigree wrapping ‘pon a cheerful solstice morn!

Joshua Calvert
Quote:
Jade speaks beautifully but I'm too lazy to untangle it all

“alien invaders have seized fountain and are transforming the mining stations to decadent flesh pots of sin and wanton desire … quick Joshua, set the autopilot!”

Josephine
Quote:
As a part of the Venal Alliance Taggart feels no obligation to conform to the laws of any of the Imperial states, and does not recognize validity of the said Imperial states labelling some of the members of the Venal Alliance as criminals.

Ah my sweet, you are so direct and cutting in your close analysis of my subtle arts and turn of linguistic phrase … my careful verbal flourishes and rhetorical tricks are naught but fleeting shadows before the hunter’s eye and lean-swept fair predation. My truth is at thy mercy love, wilt thou be spare as victor to mine words arrayed?

Ah non, ‘tis lovely trick and past sustaining, thine eye is true m’dear.

Macumba
Quote:
Basically, TTI like pirates. The rest is just padding.

… I assure you monsieur; I’ve no need of prosthetic charm enhancement in that department!
Quote:
Oh, and their own staff are incapable of putting together a decent press release so they get poor misguided Jade to do it for them.

And since false poverty is next in rank of rankest sin I must perforce sing fast disbursal of that notion kind sir, since in truth I am neither poor nor misguided, and truth again I’d vouch monsieur that I know exactly what it is I do, and why, and what I hope to gain in times to come, and times to pass thereout and after thence and far to dreams I’d hope to see made real.

Thou art scarcely truthful in thine own illusions bold Macumba to see the callow guise of once-moral ideologue brought low by mammon’s coin and pitied wage to bow and sc**** and lick the boots of tyrants and oppressors.

Think thee of fine discernment and truths beyond the sight of obvious regard; remember what I have said and to whom Macumba, and think a while before you speak the epitaph to dreams and hopes and murmured dirge to freedoms lonely grave.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2003.08.04 03:47:00 - [50]
 

Yoshokun
Quote:
I would like to salute Jade for her wonderful, professional manner. The Venal Alliance should be proud to have such a wonderful and beautiful spokesperson.

My thanks to thy compliment sweet Yoshokun, yet you have paid me accolade unlooked for, for though I have been asked to speak on matters pertaining to Venal and Taggart, I hold no formal position nor honour beyond that of a fellow captain and citizen of the Venal Alliance, simply one amongst many companions of that bold and dashing wild frontier.

Morpheus
Quote:
Nobody appointed her as the spokesperson...

Truly spoken, I was merely asked to make certain matters clear by involved parties, and ‘twas my pleasure to speak such words of truth as my eyes did see, that truth be known and lies be banished far away from dreaming Venal and the bold captain-adventurers and free spirited crews who name that twilight region yet their home.

M0RPHEUS
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.08.04 07:05:00 - [51]
 

ShockedDon't get me wrong Jade, so far so goodSmile...i was just surpired that TTI were quick to appoint people to non-existant positions within the alliance...

Joshua Calvert
Caldari
Rule One
Posted - 2003.08.04 07:09:00 - [52]
 

Quote:
“alien invaders have seized Fountain and are transforming the mining stations to decadent flesh pots of sin and wanton desire … quick Joshua, set the autopilot!”


I'm, like, so totally there!



j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2003.08.04 11:51:00 - [53]
 

"“alien invaders have seized fountain and are transforming the mining stations to decadent flesh pots of sin and wanton desire … quick Joshua, set the autopilot!”"

*laughs* If there's just one way to attract to the Venal endless flocks of tourists itching to throw their isk away in [gay] abandon, it'd be this one for sure... although why the aliens? could swear this was the kind of enterprise the Gallente took their pride in... :s


"Ah my sweet, you are so direct and cutting in your close analysis of my subtle arts and turn of linguistic phrase …"

still in the service of bluntness, Jade dearest... :s (and still shameless enough to steal from the best, i freely admit) 'Tis hard to resist the urge for pleasure which comes from stripping the truth from her colourful and pretty covers, one by one and ignoring the meek cries of false protest she might make in the process.... and even if some might find the naked truth morally wrong, isn't she a wonder to be admired, seized and loved rather than sneered upon.

... a-hem. that said, if it can be of any consolation, the flurry which was the rest of your note left my ship translator system sizzling from the overload, and myself somewhat dazzled... so in this particular case i have no choice but yield to the power of Gallente tongue... :s

Main
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2003.08.04 15:52:00 - [54]
 

I suppose as the old saying goes "if you can't beat them, join them", tti with all their might could not beat a few pirates, so they ran from them, when they got tired of running, they joined them.

Prophet Arames
Viziam
Posted - 2003.08.05 05:03:00 - [55]
 

Quote:
Macumba - Oh, and their own staff are incapable of putting together a decent press release so they get poor misguided Jade to do it for them.


I would have to disagree with you on this point, Macumba. I could have written a similar press release (as I have on other topics in the past); and while it may not have been as poetic in nature as my Gallente counterpart, it certainly would have been capable... TTI executives and some members of the Venal Alliance wanted to have this information posted as a statement on behalf of VA, and Jade was the best choice for the job. She is a member of the Venal Alliance, has spoken truthfully in the past on a myriad of topics on this forum, and has presented both positive and negative opinions of TTI during that time. Jade did a wonderful job of presenting these facts in her own distinctive fashion, and we appreciate the effort on her part.

As with all threads here, differing opinions will be presented. No matter who had written this release, we would have seen the naysayers and TTI-haters post their views on this subject. If I had written it, people would have stepped forward to claim TTI was skewing the truth (or lying) for its own benefit. The claims now are that either Jade is deluded or has been bought off, but the fact remains that VA wanted the release to come from one of its own.

Besides, Jade and I were sunning together in the Luminaire system (she tans a lot better than me, must be the Gallente skin), so I haven’t had a chance to respond here until now.

Quote:
I suppose as the old saying goes "if you can't beat them, join them", tti with all their might could not beat a few pirates, so they ran from them, when they got tired of running, they joined them. - Main


As was stated in the original release, TTI has been in Venal since May. Some corporations were already present in Venal at the time, and others began their operations in the system during May-June. When the Venal Alliance was created, TTI entered negotiations with the VA leadership group. TTI joined the VA not as a full member but with a NAP agreement in order to preserve its economic interests in Venal. It has been reported in different places that we were a full member of the Alliance at that time, but this was only due to incorrect information posted on a particular web site. TTI has operations all over the empire and in many of the outer regions, and a portion of our forces was removed from Venal to protect other remote mining operations. In addition, a Concord scandal in which they turned a blind eye to pirate activities meant Taggart was no longer safe in Empire space, forcing us to organize back in the Venal region where Concord cannot be so easily bribed. Debates will undoubtedly continue on this point for years to come, but this is TTI’s stance on this diplomatic issue.

Jade and even Morkt have written about the limitations around declaring war in our galaxy... and the repercussions of this failure that resides in the hands of CONCORD. It is the result of this and the economic opportunities of newly discovered asteroid fields that have brought TTI en-force to Venal...

... and yes, we are now a full member of VA, and it is true that we have and will continue to fight alongside VA. The laws of Eve have brought us here, and if this disturbs you, so be it. Morkt likes to claim that TTI and Eve as a whole should be upset that TTI is not the “white lion” of Eve. We have never made the claim that we are some last bastion of light against a growing pirate darkness.... We have however stepped forward in the past to dispute claims of allegiance with m0o, because it was not the case. There are no white shirts in Eve... just lots of gray and a little black to boot.

Even though Morkt likes to pull quotations from our corporate website in an attempt to use them against us, we still hold those values as truths. We are a chaotic good corporation.... and yes we work with some corporations that could be considered piratical in nature. Here’s the “chaotic” part of it... CONCORD was not able to do their job. It is obvious they are corrupt from the top down... we no longer recognize CONCORD or its statutes. We have our own laws now, and it is based on the economic well-being of our corporation, and as a by-product the economic well-being of VA. Now here’s the “good” part of it... please, for god’s sake, do not come to Venal unless you are invited.

We humbly ask if anyone has a problem with Taggart or its business practices that it be taken to the bureaucratic and ineffective CONCORD. If you desire to speak to TTI concerning any diplomatic matter please contact us at statedept@taggarttransdimensional.com

Main
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2003.08.05 09:17:00 - [56]
 

Sorry if i came over a bit strong prophet...

Anyway, i think the problem that a lot of people are having is that the venal alliance is filled with both good and bad corporations, corporations that look at eve from 2 completely different perspectives, so can the venal alliance be trusted as a whole?

The Stain alliance has also been given a bad label due to the willingness and easiness we despatch unwanted guests and visiters that are too dumb to heed the warnings or decide that they don't recognise our authority in our area.

The problem however, as i stated above, is if i was to get a pass to move through venal for 1 day by tti, a corporation that can be trusted, will the lowlife of venal i.e. space invaders and the venal guardians, respect that and cease from attacking my ship.


Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2003.08.05 12:13:00 - [57]
 

Monsieur le Prophet wrote;

Quote:
[Jade] is a member of the Venal Alliance, has spoken truthfully in the past on a myriad of topics on this forum, and has presented both positive and negative opinions of TTI during that time.

This is a critically important aspect of core Jericho Fraction philosophy; that the truth can only set a person free. News management techniques which concentrate on obfuscation, misdirection and falsehood will only store up a wellspring of hateful revelations to lay like antipersonnel mines in verdant soil of paradise. I have strongly criticised TTI in the past, as have my companions-at-arms in Jericho; yet now there is common cause, and it does not take a master of political analysis to see the enemy we both share. This does not mean that past criticisms are forgotten … but to concentrate on lesser matters in the face of grand adventures and the vista’s of hope … well, that truly is a fools path and not a direction my feet will easily lead me.
Quote:
... the claims now are that either Jade is deluded or has been bought off, but the fact remains that VA wanted the release to come from one of its own.

Sticks and stones m’dear Prophet, ‘tis naught compared to high energy laser weaponry and battleship class mass drivers ;) But yes, it was important to drive home the message that TTI is an equal partner in the Venal Alliance, neither more or less so than any other member corporation and political interest group.
Quote:
Here’s the “chaotic” part of it... CONCORD was not able to do their job. It is obvious they are corrupt from the top down... we no longer recognize CONCORD or its statutes.

Bravo monsieur Prophet! And my full support once more for this bold declaration and visionary decision. Though the Venal Alliance sans TTI has long embraced such principles of freedom and independent political aspiration, it is truly heart-warming to acknowledge new converts to the cause. Concord is corrupt most certainly, and is in truth, no more than a body of ineffective bureaucracy that feeds on the labour and stifled dreams of a billion imperial citizens through levied tax and false promise of objective security.

To any who would heed the advice of the free peoples and owner-captains of Venal; take up a gun tomorrow! Make a decision in your own right, and know well that the only power in the universe worthy of respect is personal power twinned with individual responsibility.

If you desire change then throw caution to the wind and blow something up [preferable a possession of the tyrannical imperial regimes] and make of your dreams a ship of possibility coasting outwards to the void of hope and true experience!
Quote:
Knowledge is Power...

But Strength is Freedom

Always in the service of beauty!

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2003.08.05 12:35:00 - [58]
 

Monsieur Main,

You wrote;

Quote:
… the problem that a lot of people are having is that the venal alliance is filled with both good and bad corporations, corporations that look at eve from two completely different perspectives, so can the venal alliance be trusted as a whole?

What you may trust is the common philosophy of the Venal Alliance will be sustained; and at present that philosophy is represented by the following clear statement of intent; that all owner-captains and corporations of Venal will cooperate in mutual self defence of assets and territorial integrity. You are foolish to believe that it is possible to negotiate solely with one Member Corporation and have the results of that negotiation held up as defence against the actions of the others. Should a Member Corporation wish to admit a courier or misc. guest pilot for any reason then such desire would be publicly discussed in the Venal channels … the right may be granted, or it may not, this would be entirely at the discretion and consensus of the Venal members. As for trust … well trust is something earned both ways monsieur, and there are ways and means of earning it.
Quote:
The Stain alliance has also been given a bad label due to the willingness and easiness we despatch unwanted guests and visitors that are too dumb to heed the warnings or decide that they don't recognise our authority in our area.

Well such is life m’dear, there is a certain evolutionary precedent at work in the foolish learning hard lessons of pragmatic reality non?
Quote:
The problem however, as I stated above, is if I was to get a pass to move through venal for 1 day by TTI, a corporation that can be trusted, will the lowlife of venal i.e. space invaders and the venal guardians, respect that and cease from attacking my ship.

The problem is monsieur that you may hardly expect to gain the respect of the Venal Alliance by insulting the member corporations and free captains with so liberal and careless a tongue. The Venal Guardians and Space Invaders are Alliance members in good standing, and bold constituents of the Venal defence forces that stand ready at all times to repulse the hostile intentions of galactic scum from beyond our borders. Taggart captains and commanders have already cooperated and earned the respect of Venal captains in battle and defence of territorial integrity and this bond of brotherhood in combat is a glorious camaraderie that throws the mean divisive analysis of outsiders into flawed false belief.

If you want to come to Venal you must ask the Venal Alliance monsieur Main, do not believe that you may negotiate with one constituent corporation and have them “police” your safety in face of common disapproval, for that is a fallacy that will prove expensive and humiliating.

If you gain the pledge of Venal you will be safe.

If not, well, you travel at your own risk.

Love and peace (in the ruins)

Prophet Arames
Viziam
Posted - 2003.08.05 12:56:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: Prophet Arames on 05/08/2003 16:31:12
To reemphasize Jade's point, no one from TTI could offer safe passage... entry to Venal would have to go through VA as an separate entity. If someone contacted us as a member of VA seeking entry, we would pass it on through the appropriate channels.

Miso
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.08.05 13:01:00 - [60]
 

What are you guys proposing to do - stamp peoples hands?

I look forward to continuing my "shopping" expeditions in Venal unopposed.


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