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Kelgen Thann
SUBLIME L.L.C.
SMASH Alliance
Posted - 2005.09.14 04:23:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Kelgen Thann on 14/09/2005 20:00:38
Now before I post I have Caldari BS5, torp 5, all missle support skills at 4, Torp Specilization 3, Cruise 5, Cruise spec 3, and a total of 7 million sp in engeneering and electronics combined... Just to avoid the flame that I'm a noob, I've been around since the summer of 2003, and Primarily only flown Caldari ships, and Amarr as a second class to stay specilized.

The Missle skills are ok
The Launchers are ok
The existing missles themselves are ok

The Problems are:
1) Not enough mods affecting the missle attributes.
a) I'd like to have the customization abilities I get in my Turret BS in my Missle ships. I'd like to be able to change sig radius/explosion radius, Velocity, etc.
This can be done by having different missle with different payloads/attributes similar to different ammo, or by introducing 1 or 2 low slot modules or even a mid slot module, as well as remote boosting modules. Along with the Tech 2 counter-parts and named equivilants. That would only be a change to make it similar to turrets

Next, a new missle class. Frigs have rockets/lights. BS have Torps/Cruise.
I'd tweak the heavies to be more like rockets/cruise (more effective to smaller targets) and then introduce a short range heavier missle that is less effective to small targets and better to the same size or larger targets simialr to lights/Torps

This just ballances out the cruiser/HAC class

I would also like to make Cruise missles take 2 defender hits to destroy. If I fire a compelte volley at a NPC ship (when I'm PVE) only 1 or 2 make it to the targets. That is rally costly and eats up my supply of missles Ultra fast, and they take up a lot of room!

The only other change is a few tweaks to ship bonuses. Such as the Cerbrus flight time skill. It was great when pre-patch missles died fast cause of lower speed, but now post-patch it has become kinda dumb to be firing missles at 150km. After the EW patch Caldari ships got tweaked for Ew specilization and to adapt to the changes EW made, now after the missle patch 1 or 2 ships could use an adjustment to their stats to reflect the new changes to their primary or only weapon type. Aditionally, a slight increase to cargo capacity for certain ships would be good, as now to fight you have to use more missles, and they take up a lot of room in the cargo bay!! Not a huge increase maybe 100 for a BS, 50 for a cruiser. Frigs can already fit a stupid amount of small missles in their hold, so no reason to alter that.

I don't think that any of the changes are too drastic, are out of line or would make the Caldari ships Un-balanced again. I also can't think of any other changes I would like to add. Except for

theRaptor
Caldari
Tactical Operations
Posted - 2005.09.14 05:41:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: theRaptor on 14/09/2005 05:43:07
Originally by: Kelgen Thann
Next, a new missle class. Frigs have rockets/lights. BS have Torps/Cruise.
I'd tweak the heavies to be more like rockets/cruise (more effective to smaller targets) and then introduce a short range heavier missle that is less effective to small targets and better to the same size or larger targets simialr to lights/Torps

This just ballances out the cruiser/HAC class


No.

Assault launchers are for anti-frig work and are acutally better at it then the comparable Medium guns, they are also good against other cruisers. Heavy launchers are like 250mm rails, Heavy pulse etc.

We don't need another missile type. If there is a pressing need for a blaster missile analog, then just make another assault launcher that fires rockets. Personally I am quite happy with assault launchers.

Rexthor Hammerfists
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2005.09.14 06:29:00 - [3]
 

crusie sized torps would b able to bring some ships inline with others

Kelgen Thann
SUBLIME L.L.C.
SMASH Alliance
Posted - 2005.09.14 07:16:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Kelgen Thann on 14/09/2005 07:24:00
Quote:
Assault launchers are for anti-frig work and are acutally better at it then the comparable Medium guns, they are also good against other cruisers. Heavy launchers are like 250mm rails, Heavy pulse etc.


I'm not knocking the effectiveness of Assult launchers with Light missles. I was identifying the desparity in the missle classes. Torps/cruise, Rockets/lights, Heavy/light(again). I would modify the heavy missles to be used in assult launchers, modify the missle stats so they are closer to lights than current heavies. Call them assult missles or something. Then have Heavy missles short range "mini-Torps" and have them only fire from Heavy launchers, and are not affected by the skills that don't affect Torps like the ability to hit smaller targets(forget the specific name, and don't want to name the wrong one), as like torps they will be 'dumb'fire or as close as they can be in this game

But this is the lesser of the changes that I think are needed to this component of the game.

Quote:
crusie sized torps would b able to bring some ships inline with others

I was specifically thinking Caracle/CerebrusRazz

Kelgen Thann
SUBLIME L.L.C.
SMASH Alliance
Posted - 2005.09.14 20:05:00 - [5]
 

1 More change I just remembered..

The agility and mass that was decreased, and increased respectively a while ago to offset the caldari advantages due to missles shoudl be changed Back to their original values. Take the caracle for instance, or the BB. the ships are small, and were originally designed to be more agile than the other races, and was only changed to nerf the ships due to missle advantages. Now that missles have been brought in-check. I'd say reset the altered values.

The Wizz117
Reikoku
KenZoku
Posted - 2005.09.15 14:50:00 - [6]
 

@ kelgon

dont even botter creating post's aboud caldari
and all the non-caldari will say stop whining.

i know caldari is underpowerd.. just train amarrExclamation
i know its ****ed after training milions and milions of SP in caldari...

HippoKing
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2005.09.15 15:06:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: HippoKing on 15/09/2005 15:15:34
Originally by: The Wizz117
@ kelgon

dont even botter creating post's aboud caldari
and all the non-caldari will say stop whining.

i know caldari is underpowerd.. just train amarrExclamation
i know its ****ed after training milions and milions of SP in caldari...


i am a caldari
i can fly caldari ships ONLY (thats not really true, i have gallente (for guristas frigs) and minny frig (to use as shuttles) to 3)

real posts with real points that are not just whine don't get flamed
on the other hand, all ur posts appear to be the whines of someone who can't adapt so far. as i have said, it is not as impossible to make a good raven as you say. and no, i am not using uberviolent officer/faction modules

if u ever see me (usually in niyabainen, jita or perimeter) i will ALWAYS be in either a shuttle (vigil/slasher), a harpy or a RAVEN. cos i know my raven doesn't suck

yes,i would like a few more modules (specially t2 BCUs), but broadly, missiles are OK now

edit: removing trolls

The Wizz117
Reikoku
KenZoku
Posted - 2005.09.15 15:44:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: HippoKing
Edited by: HippoKing on 15/09/2005 15:15:34
Originally by: The Wizz117
@ kelgon

dont even botter creating post's aboud caldari
and all the non-caldari will say stop whining.

i know caldari is underpowerd.. just train amarrExclamation
i know its ****ed after training milions and milions of SP in caldari...


i am a caldari
i can fly caldari ships ONLY (thats not really true, i have gallente (for guristas frigs) and minny frig (to use as shuttles) to 3)

real posts with real points that are not just whine don't get flamed
on the other hand, all ur posts appear to be the whines of someone who can't adapt so far. as i have said, it is not as impossible to make a good raven as you say. and no, i am not using uberviolent officer/faction modules

if u ever see me (usually in niyabainen, jita or perimeter) i will ALWAYS be in either a shuttle (vigil/slasher), a harpy or a RAVEN. cos i know my raven doesn't suck

yes,i would like a few more modules (specially t2 BCUs), but broadly, missiles are OK now

edit: removing trolls


if you read my posts in older topics aboud raven.
you will see that i have arguemented evryting.
you are another of those dudes telling met o adapt and stop wining so i dont realy care aboud you.

HippoKing
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2005.09.15 18:38:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: HippoKing on 15/09/2005 18:37:48
Originally by: The Wizz117
if you read my posts in older topics aboud raven.
you will see that i have arguemented evryting.
you are another of those dudes telling met o adapt and stop wining so i dont realy care aboud you.


i know. but you should.

can you list all the setups you have tried to adapt to?

here is a good one:

2 sieges
4 cruises
2 heavy nos

1 xlarge booster2
1boostamp
3hards (kin, therm EM) (t2)
another boostamp, or a sensor booster depending on range

2 BCU
3 powerdiag2s

this soloes quite a lot of lvl4s - i can't see how that could make the raven **** for PvE.

as for PvP, the raven does a lot of anti-BS damage

so far, of your posts, all i can see is "OMG - DON;T TELL ME TO ADAPT. I TRIED". there has never been a setup u tried posted, and what was wrong with it.
it sounds horribly like your fitting civilian modules on ur raven given the results u claim to be getting

Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2005.09.15 19:08:00 - [10]
 

Short, sweet, and not a whine (oh my!): I believe the only real rethinking CCP needs to do on missiles is some of the ship bonuses (read: HACs) and a couple of small tweaks on select ammo explosion radius. Of course T2 ballistics soon would also be nice.

We do not need any new missile types.

The Wizz117
Reikoku
KenZoku
Posted - 2005.09.15 19:11:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: HippoKing
Edited by: HippoKing on 15/09/2005 18:37:48
Originally by: The Wizz117
if you read my posts in older topics aboud raven.
you will see that i have arguemented evryting.
you are another of those dudes telling met o adapt and stop wining so i dont realy care aboud you.


i know. but you should.

can you list all the setups you have tried to adapt to?

here is a good one:

2 sieges
4 cruises
2 heavy nos

1 xlarge booster2
1boostamp
3hards (kin, therm EM) (t2)
another boostamp, or a sensor booster depending on range

2 BCU
3 powerdiag2s

this soloes quite a lot of lvl4s - i can't see how that could make the raven **** for PvE.

as for PvP, the raven does a lot of anti-BS damage

so far, of your posts, all i can see is "OMG - DON;T TELL ME TO ADAPT. I TRIED". there has never been a setup u tried posted, and what was wrong with it.
it sounds horribly like your fitting civilian modules on ur raven given the results u claim to be getting


im not going to post any arguments/setups any more in any treath, simply couse im tired of doing that.
could you tell me wich topics of me you read?
i read a hell loads of argumends aboud ravens and stuf

HippoKing
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2005.09.15 19:17:00 - [12]
 

can you tell me what is wrong with that setup?
ok, it dnt tank as well as a tankapoc, and it dnt gank as well as a gankageddon, but it can do both pretty well (a big advantage for PvE) and includes enough nossies to make it off limits to solo HAC flying BS hunters

Grey Area
Caldari
Posted - 2005.09.15 22:50:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: HippoKing
here is a good one:

2 sieges
4 cruises
2 heavy nos

1 xlarge booster2
1boostamp
3hards (kin, therm EM) (t2)
another boostamp, or a sensor booster depending on range

2 BCU
3 powerdiag2s

this soloes quite a lot of lvl4s - i can't see how that could make the raven **** for PvE.



My comments / questions;

This setup won't kill harder BS NPCs like Rachen Mysuna...he will out-tank it.
I assume you are using drones to kill frigs - what size and how many?
Unless you waste some cruise on frigates, you are in dange of being webbed and scrambled - and then the cruisers will start to get in range.
I wouldn't take this setup into 0.4 or lower - I had a very similar setup and got covert ops ganked - sacrifice a low slot for a WCS and you do even LESS dmage or tank for less time.
Three hardeners and no AB = takes forever to move thru deadspace missions.
How many times do you have to warp out of a Guristas Extravaganze with this setup to reload or just to gain cap?

I would think you might be able to do 75% of the missions offered in this setup, and then only in safe space. Rejecting all those missions is not going to help your standing much.

Yazoul Samaiel
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2005.09.16 01:52:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: HippoKing
Edited by: HippoKing on 15/09/2005 18:37:48
Originally by: The Wizz117
if you read my posts in older topics aboud raven.
you will see that i have arguemented evryting.
you are another of those dudes telling met o adapt and stop wining so i dont realy care aboud you.


i know. but you should.

can you list all the setups you have tried to adapt to?

here is a good one:

2 sieges
4 cruises
2 heavy nos

1 xlarge booster2
1boostamp
3hards (kin, therm EM) (t2)
another boostamp, or a sensor booster depending on range

2 BCU
3 powerdiag2s

this soloes quite a lot of lvl4s - i can't see how that could make the raven **** for PvE.

as for PvP, the raven does a lot of anti-BS damage

so far, of your posts, all i can see is "OMG - DON;T TELL ME TO ADAPT. I TRIED". there has never been a setup u tried posted, and what was wrong with it.
it sounds horribly like your fitting civilian modules on ur raven given the results u claim to be getting



Agreed this setup wont kill hard tanked targets , personaly i use 6 cruise missiles , they take ages to take down the BS but at least they are doing soemthing.

Kelgen Thann
SUBLIME L.L.C.
SMASH Alliance
Posted - 2005.09.16 04:34:00 - [15]
 

Quote:
We do not need any new missile types.


Would be fun though. Loading high payload torps that have a low range and take up twice the launcher room. Probably won't happen, it's not necessary, but Would be fun. But I do think that Light missles should not be a cruiser weapon. Each Ship class should have 2 distinct and unique Missle types. Imo

As a Note I still like the Raven, dunno if people thought I did or not, but I just noticed these issues that make sense to address.

HippoKing
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2005.09.16 18:09:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Grey Area
My comments / questions;

This setup won't kill harder BS NPCs like Rachen Mysuna...he will out-tank it.


it does, it just takes a while. and it helps if u can get into drone range.

Originally by: Grey Area
I assume you are using drones to kill frigs - what size and how many?
Unless you waste some cruise on frigates, you are in dange of being webbed and scrambled - and then the cruisers will start to get in range.


4 heavies, 5 mediums = frigapop


Originally by: Grey Area
I wouldn't take this setup into 0.4 or lower - I had a very similar setup and got covert ops ganked - sacrifice a low slot for a WCS and you do even LESS dmage or tank for less time.


this is an empire NPCing setup

Originally by: Grey Area
Three hardeners and no AB = takes forever to move thru deadspace missions.


can't argue there...

Originally by: Grey Area
How many times do you have to warp out of a Guristas Extravaganze with this setup to reload or just to gain cap?


so far i have avoided attempting this solo

Originally by: Grey Area
I would think you might be able to do 75% of the missions offered in this setup, and then only in safe space. Rejecting all those missions is not going to help your standing much.


or u can just get help from a mate. besides, this is not a setup thread, that was just an example to question how thoroughly thewizz had tested his "OMGWTF THE RAVEN SUX - I'D BE BETTER IN AN IBIS!!!!11111oneoneeleventyoneone!" theory

LitLBunnyFooFoo
Caldari
Posted - 2005.09.16 18:20:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: LitLBunnyFooFoo on 16/09/2005 18:29:58
It is obvious to me every person who has posted here does not PvP much, if at all. Because if you had you would know just how useless a Raven is against Cruisers and Frigs. Against BS's torps are good, cruise are only okay, but I am not asking for any changes there. For all the other class ships cruise and torps both = garbage. Its a freaken shame what CCP has done to BS sized missile weapons. Even with 5 bcu's its a waste of cruise missiles to fire them at frigs. A FREAKEN WASTE! And against HACs, sure you can tank them if you have the right setup. But I have not been able to kill a single one of them, not one since the patch.

Truth. t2 frigs and t2 HACs know if they come up against a Raven in PvP action they have nothing to fear, NOTHING! and thats a freaken shame.


Against PvE targets missile are fine, no complaints. Sure it takes longer but so what, at the end of it you get the rewards. It should take that long to kill a frig or a cruise in PvP, but it doesn't, even if they are not tanked! That's just criminal.. There is no way you pvp turret folks would put up with that if you couldn't kill a t2 Frig or t2 cruiser if you was setup for gankasnipe. But because us missile peeps are only asking for these horrible excuse for an upgrade to be FIXED you call us whinners. I say, go get bent!

For PvP, a Raven = a freaken joke. After 2 years I am seriously thinking of ending my Eve subscription. To spend two years building a character to have it taken out of pvp after just one patch is a FREAKEN SHAME.

CCP, seriously, if you don't want Caldari ships pvping, why not just remove them from the game comepletey. I am so disgusted, chances are I am going to quit this game, and shame on you CCP for forcing yet another loyal customer to leave this game because you have betrayed our trust in you.

If you wouldn't mind telling me when you are going to FIX cruise and torps missiles to actually cause damage to lower class ships maybe I will reconsider. But if you come back and say you are not going to FIX what you have totally distroyed, then I am out. Cause I will be damned if I am going to go around flying a APOC or a Geddon just to be in the UBER one setup pwns all noob ship you have now made them to be. That all them weak arse Apoc/Geddon peeps claimed the Raven was.

Signed,

FREAKEN UNHAPPY

DaBunny

(BTW to all you none missile smakers out there complaining that Raven pilots need to shut up, trust me when I tell you this, you will have your day, soon! CCP always goes way to far with everything.
They have done it to every race type since the game has begun, and they wont ever stop cuz they are improvement/ruined it junkies!

How bout it CCP when you gonna F I X what you improved when it comes to PvP regarding cruise and torps against Frigs and Cruiers/HACs??????????????




McBane
Gallente
AFK Initiative
Posted - 2005.09.16 18:30:00 - [18]
 

Have to admit, I don't get how missiles work now.

I did a mission yesterday to test them out. Sat stationary at 60km, I opened up on the NPC rats (all the same type) - who kindly only aggroed one at time and began moving towards me.
On one rat my torps would do 100 dmg per hit in shields. Then on another they would do 400 dmg per hit in shield.
I spent a little while trying to work out what was different, by I couldn't see naff all difference between them. The rats behaved identically between killings and even tho they sped up, down etc, the hit value was the same throughout - if it started 100dmg, thats what it stayed - and if it started 300dmg then every shot was 300.

Really don't get - there's logic there, but not logic as i know it!

HippoKing
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2005.09.16 19:40:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: LitLBunnyFooFoo
Truth. t2 frigs and t2 HACs know if they come up against a Raven in PvP action they have nothing to fear, NOTHING! and thats a freaken shame.


most BSs can't damage an unwebbed cruiser or frig at close range very much. the biggest diffence here is that ravens can't even damage them when theyre webbed - not good IMO

still, a raven can fit its full attack setup AND a pair of heavy noses. thats worth a lot when shooting frigs/HACs. most frigs, when dual heavy nossed, webbed (6 mids 4tw) and blobbed with 4 heavy and 5 medium drones go MEEP and then explode. shame the can't be said for HACs

Fiodore Nevesky
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2005.09.16 20:36:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: LitLBunnyFooFoo
Edited by: LitLBunnyFooFoo on 16/09/2005 18:29:58
It is obvious to me every person who has posted here does not PvP much, if at all. Because if you had you would know just how useless a Raven is against Cruisers and Frigs. Against BS's torps are good, cruise are only okay, but I am not asking for any changes there. For all the other class ships cruise and torps both = garbage. Its a freaken shame what CCP has done to BS sized missile weapons. Even with 5 bcu's its a waste of cruise missiles to fire them at frigs. A FREAKEN WASTE! And against HACs, sure you can tank them if you have the right setup. But I have not been able to kill a single one of them, not one since the patch.

Truth. t2 frigs and t2 HACs know if they come up against a Raven in PvP action they have nothing to fear, NOTHING! and thats a freaken shame.


Against PvE targets missile are fine, no complaints. Sure it takes longer but so what, at the end of it you get the rewards. It should take that long to kill a frig or a cruise in PvP, but it doesn't, even if they are not tanked! That's just criminal.. There is no way you pvp turret folks would put up with that if you couldn't kill a t2 Frig or t2 cruiser if you was setup for gankasnipe. But because us missile peeps are only asking for these horrible excuse for an upgrade to be FIXED you call us whinners. I say, go get bent!

For PvP, a Raven = a freaken joke. After 2 years I am seriously thinking of ending my Eve subscription. To spend two years building a character to have it taken out of pvp after just one patch is a FREAKEN SHAME.

CCP, seriously, if you don't want Caldari ships pvping, why not just remove them from the game comepletey. I am so disgusted, chances are I am going to quit this game, and shame on you CCP for forcing yet another loyal customer to leave this game because you have betrayed our trust in you.

If you wouldn't mind telling me when you are going to FIX cruise and torps missiles to actually cause damage to lower class ships maybe I will reconsider. But if you come back and say you are not going to FIX what you have totally distroyed, then I am out. Cause I will be damned if I am going to go around flying a APOC or a Geddon just to be in the UBER one setup pwns all noob ship you have now made them to be. That all them weak arse Apoc/Geddon peeps claimed the Raven was.

Signed,

FREAKEN UNHAPPY

DaBunny

(BTW to all you none missile smakers out there complaining that Raven pilots need to shut up, trust me when I tell you this, you will have your day, soon! CCP always goes way to far with everything.
They have done it to every race type since the game has begun, and they wont ever stop cuz they are improvement/ruined it junkies!

How bout it CCP when you gonna F I X what you improved when it comes to PvP regarding cruise and torps against Frigs and Cruiers/HACs??????????????






I agree with all missile skills at lvl 4 and cruise lvl 4 and i do 18 dmg per cruise on an enyo in pvp that just sucks A** and 2 AFs will just kill me with no sweat at all , and plz b4 missile muppets start saying ur setup or skills suck i already maximised all my other skills and have a full tank and no way i am gonna fit 5 BCUs named worth 10 times the raven just to do 1% more dmg since T2 BCU are missing , the only reason why i havent termianted my account was that i have gallante and amarr trained and with the mega t i can pop frigs , crusiers with np what so ever with a webber but with missiles it doenst do **** .


PS: fitting 6 heavy lanchers on a raven to kill frigs is just like fitting a pea shooter on an M1 Abrams

HippoKing
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2005.09.16 20:41:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Fiodore Nevesky
I agree with all missile skills at lvl 4 and cruise lvl 4 and i do 18 dmg per cruise on an enyo in pvp that just sucks A** and 2 AFs will just kill me with no sweat at all , and plz b4 missile muppets start saying ur setup or skills suck i already maximised all my other skills and have a full tank and no way i am gonna fit 5 BCUs named worth 10 times the raven just to do 1% more dmg since T2 BCU are missing , the only reason why i havent termianted my account was that i have gallante and amarr trained and with the mega t i can pop frigs , crusiers with np what so ever with a webber but with missiles it doenst do **** .


the biggest prob wth missiles is hat webbers don't help enough. thats it. but a dual heavy nos, drones and a webber will make those AFs cry...

LitLBunnyFooFoo
Caldari
Posted - 2005.09.16 22:14:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Fiodore Nevesky
I agree with all missile skills at lvl 4 and cruise lvl 4 and i do 18 dmg per cruise on an enyo in pvp that just sucks A** and 2 AFs will just kill me with no sweat at all , and plz b4 missile muppets start saying ur setup or skills suck i already maximised all my other skills and have a full tank and no way i am gonna fit 5 BCUs named worth 10 times the raven just to do 1% more dmg since T2 BCU are missing , the only reason why i havent termianted my account was that i have gallante and amarr trained and with the mega t i can pop frigs , crusiers with np what so ever with a webber but with missiles it doenst do **** .


the biggest prob wth missiles is hat webbers don't help enough. thats it. but a dual heavy nos, drones and a webber will make those AFs cry...


I have done what you have suggested. But how does that help when Apoc/Geddons/Temps/Megas (and domi's and phoons if setup with 425's or 1200mm/1400mm weps) can all kill t2 frigs and HACs from a distance and Ravens cannot. Your statement doesn't solve or help in anyway to the problem faced by Raven pilots against those threats. And that aint right!

So CCP, when you are going to F I X the improvements you made to cruise and torp missiles in regards to pvp and t2 frig and HACs?

DaBunny


Fiodore Nevesky
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2005.09.16 23:56:00 - [23]
 

By the time my droens chewed half the armour on the enyo i was popped by the second AF with it ( decent drone skills btw 8 of them and heavy droens lvl 3 ) . 2 AFS will kill a raven any day , any sniper bs , any hac would chew it through , funny thing is that u lose those UBEr insane faction BCUs to a ship that aint worth 1/4 of it's price .

Only use for my raven is PVE period coz i cant just go with a torp setup to kill BS only and aginst any other ships i am sooo screwed.

HippoKing
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2005.09.17 23:22:00 - [24]
 


Kelgen Thann
SUBLIME L.L.C.
SMASH Alliance
Posted - 2005.09.18 05:59:00 - [25]
 

About mining in a dread... it can only fit what 3 lasers? and it can only mine in low security space. There are MUCH better ways of mining and faster that don't cost liek 3 bil to put together. I'd use 2 accounts, 1 in a Large Barge and the other in a Fast rat killer.


theRaptor
Caldari
Tactical Operations
Posted - 2005.09.18 07:40:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: LitLBunnyFooFoo
It is obvious to me every person who has posted here does not PvP much, if at all. Because if you had you would know just how useless a Raven is against Cruisers and Frigs.


Bu hu. Large guns *never* hit my cruisers or frigs. *Never*. Medium guns never hit my frigs. All my ships are designed to nullify the enemy through speed and fight outside of web range. And I can stick on a tracking disruptor if I really need to be invulnerable. My alliance takes out enemy gun BS all the time with frigs and cruisers.

The only problem with missile is that they do not overcome tracking problems by sniping like guns can (I can normally warp out before snipers lock me). Close in though they are more effective on smaller targets then guns though. There is a fix to make missiles good for sniping but it involves more server side maths then CCP want to do.

theRaptor
Caldari
Tactical Operations
Posted - 2005.09.18 07:48:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: LitLBunnyFooFoo
I have done what you have suggested. But how does that help when Apoc/Geddons/Temps/Megas (and domi's and phoons if setup with 425's or 1200mm/1400mm weps) can all kill t2 frigs and HACs from a distance and Ravens cannot.


They can kill frigs from over 60km maybe. Close in they are even more impotent then Ravens. So please explain why you should be able to snipe with missiles *and* still hit small ships close in. Guns aren't missiles, Missiles aren't guns. Missiles nearly always hit, but for crap damage against small targets. Gun's can not hit speed rigged smaller ships. Also gun's have a another two forms of EW that cripple them (a single turret disruptor ****s up most gun ships).

If you keep crying for missiles to do everything the same as guns, they will just end up *being* guns.

HippoKing
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2005.09.18 10:24:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: theRaptor
If you keep crying for missiles to do everything the same as guns, they will just end up *being* guns.


/signed

Drew Kelly
Posted - 2005.09.18 19:06:00 - [29]
 

i was just wondering if you guys have had problems with light missles, I have seen people with good missles skills(all at 4) hit NPC frigate rats with light missles and do 5 dmg. I thought light missles were supposed to be anti-frigate?

Sage Fire
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2005.09.19 05:39:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: McBane

I did a mission yesterday to test them out. Sat stationary at 60km, I opened up on the NPC rats (all the same type) - who kindly only aggroed one at time and began moving towards me.
On one rat my torps would do 100 dmg per hit in shields. Then on another they would do 400 dmg per hit in shield.
I spent a little while trying to work out what was different, by I couldn't see naff all difference between them.

Really don't get - there's logic there, but not logic as i know it!


What's weird is that earlier today, a friend of mine was doing an agent mission with me. He told me that bigger missiles, when shot at an aligned target (as in, a target not moving across your screen from afar, but moving directly towards you), do normal damage. I was doing 130 damage with heavies against a NPC elite frig (arch angel viper) which then turned to 15 or so when the frig reached me and began its orbit (i.e., not coming at me straight anymore). Now, this might be a clue on your research thing. But I'm no missile guru. Maybe it's in the actual mechanics CCP meant for explosion radius (or whatever it is), or it's an exploit? I don't know what to make of it.
******


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