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Irias Salo
Caldari
The Star Wolves
Aunni Ti Tsuun Consortium
Posted - 2005.09.13 18:49:00 - [61]
 

I've been playing for 6 months, and I don't care about getting a dread, I can't even fly a battleship yet. If I did want to be equal to the guys and gals who've been playing since a MMOG since it came out, I'd go and play WoW.

I don't even care if they have 30mill more sp then me, it just shows that they've been playing longer, so deserve the new stuff thats comming out to keep them playing.

I know I'd quit if eve did become like WoW.

Tal Oman
Posted - 2005.09.13 19:10:00 - [62]
 

I have been playing for just over 2 weeks now. I am overwhelmed with stuff. Believe it or not, getting a Badger II looks sexy to me at this moment in the game. If they added another frig or indy to the game for me, it would be just one more ship I know nothing about..hehe.

Game improvement is...game improvement. Be it for newbs or vets. Coming from another game that was still dealing with major bugs after 2 years, seeing any improvment is wonderful.

As for being able to directly compete with the vets, I hope that never happens. That would mean something got nurfed or that someone got something they really didn't earn. I am finding ways to indirectly compete with the vets and this is a fun challenge in itself. Fact is though, after some months from now, I'll have a ship with the same number of guns and missiles as the next guy and a corp with just as many folks as most, so I'll be in the mix sooner than later.

See ya in game!

Derron Bel
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2005.09.13 19:17:00 - [63]
 

I think the best way to add new content for new players is to improve the variety of agent missions offered. More combat missions, combat courier missions, missions with ally NPCs.

Somatic Neuron
Posted - 2005.09.13 19:37:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle
Look at the new features in this game: dreads, freighters, outposts, tech 2 big ships, pirate implants, and so on. Anyone see a pattern?

It seems like CCP is only improving the game for the oldtimers. If you dont have several billion isk and 20M or more skillpoints, you dont exist. Its as simple as that.

I wonder how long before the new player base discovers this? Bye bye 15k concurrent online players, welcome 5k concurrent online players.


lol, new players are seeing the content that we were promised a long time ago to keep us interested and involved in the game. It gave us something to work toward. It gives you something to work toward. The beginning areas of the game are pretty static, I will admit, but it should be...to ensure a consistent new player experience (albeit, new players gain the advantage, usually, of players that have already gone through all of the trials and tribulations of trying to figure out what works best, and what is useless). There is new low to mid-level content in the works (COSMOS for starter systems, etc...look at In Testing and In Development and on the Drawing Board under Patch Notes).

It's bad enough that you guys DO get the benefit of our experience, making your 20m Skillpoint characters much better than our 20m skillpoint characters, without you guys constantly whining about how unfair it is that you have to start out with nothing and "give us quicker training, give us this, give us that" all the damn time.

RabbidFerret
Kinetic Cartel
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2005.09.13 19:41:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle
Look at the new features in this game: dreads, freighters, outposts, tech 2 big ships, pirate implants, and so on. Anyone see a pattern?

It seems like CCP is only improving the game for the oldtimers. If you dont have several billion isk and 20M or more skillpoints, you dont exist. Its as simple as that.

I wonder how long before the new player base discovers this? Bye bye 15k concurrent online players, welcome 5k concurrent online players.


Good, old timers should get rewarded. The best part of EVE is out in 0.0, alot of these things were made for that. When you sit through the same thing we had to and then come to 0.0, then you can play with our new toys.

Tyto
Minmatar
Ardua Astra
Posted - 2005.09.13 19:55:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Sykosys


Why should a new player need new things when they havn't tried the old things??



Quoted for truth.

Surely this pwnz every whining post?

Weirda
Minmatar
Queens of the Stone Age
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2005.09.13 20:06:00 - [67]
 

-destroyers weren't there when weirda started playing (bc either - but that is not necessarily new player)
-useful mining cruisers/barges didn't exist to help new player get started
-interceptors were only t2 ships, and that was months after weirda started
-complexes/deadspace - none was there for weirda when new, only belt rat hunting
-the list could go on

the content that is added is pretty well across the board for all ages of players. when you are a 'younger' player, you just have a different role in the engagement, instead of flying the dread, you may be supporting it, instead of building the outpost, you may be using it.

the biggest trap to fall into in Eve (or any mmo for that matter) is to limit you playstyle to one or two things (mining/hunting). try lots of different thing tha all benefit eachother (without becoming jack of all trade) and you will find that how you spend you evenings can be very different depending on you mood.

learn to build... do something interesting with those min you mine... try to carve out a niche for youself. everyone has the chance.

by all means - if you want more 'immersion' join a RP corp, weirda have never been in one, but have a lot of friend who are and that bring an entierly different level to the game experience that is independent of what 'toys' CCP choose to release.

either way - you are obviously frustrated, and am hoping that this post is helpful for you (and for others that may feel in the same boat). instead of setting looooong term goals (want to train to bs and fly it right), set shorter ones that are easier to measure you progress with (i.e. want to become a REALLY good frig pilot and learn to take cruiser+escort spawn in my griffen). the shorter term goal may seem like dumb cakewalk to ppl who have been in eve a long time, but it is stepping stones that will continually increase you experience without feeling that you are stuck on some sort of plateau.

best of all - good luck, eve is what you make it, not what ccp makes it for you! Very Happy

Mr Popov
Tribal Liberation Force
Posted - 2005.09.13 20:13:00 - [68]
 

The problem with this post is simple. The OP assumed that dreads and outposts were single-player friendly like Battleships and Cruisers are.

LOL at anyone who attempts to biuld an outpost, or attempts to do anything worth-while with a dreadnought solo.

Deja Thoris
Invicta.
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2005.09.13 20:19:00 - [69]
 

@ The OP, you are simply clueless. I'm shocked that people took the time to explain how ignorant you are.

Miri Tirzan
Caldari
Clan Korval
Posted - 2005.09.13 20:25:00 - [70]
 

WHaaaa, I cannot start the game Uber! Whaaaa, the Dev's actually mean for this game to be about the journey and not me being Uber!


CCP is adding upper content for those that have been playing for a few years and have had no where to go. If they did not do this, in a few years you would having nothing new to do.

As for something that helps get you up equal with the players that have been playing for 2+ years. WHAAAA, I cannot start the game Uber! You get to play and enjoy and you will always be behind those that started before you, just like in life.

Or, to put it in your terms.... WHAAAA, I cannot start the game UBER!


Rusty Bullethole
Posted - 2005.09.13 20:35:00 - [71]
 

Edited by: Rusty Bullethole on 13/09/2005 20:37:49
Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle
Originally by: Oriana Fallaci
If you want to help newer players, scrap learning skills.
Agreed. A new player has 2 choises:
1. Skip learning skills and focus on fun skill, but knowing that he does not play the game in the best way.
2. Train learning skills, and spend the first6 weeks or so doing nothing but level 1 missions in his condor.

Its a lose - lose situation, which actually makes the difference between new players and old even bigger (its supposed to be the opposite), since a 6 months old player will usually have spent 2 months or so training learning skills, and need more time before he has regained the time he lost on the learning skills.

If new players started with max in learning skills, then it would help lessen the gap between rookies and the elite.


Oh sure and this way we can then roll back all the time spent by OLD players when advanced learning skills wasnt even in the game!

Go play WoW, Eve is a long term game NOT an Xbox or Playstation game!!!!

Oh and on a different note, New players actually have it MUCH better than OLD players allot of the "unknowns" have been answered, allot of the templates have been panned out and MANY bugs have been squashed! So please go wine elsewhere just because you dont have the patience to play a great game like Eve-Online!

Marar
Amarr
Doomheim
Posted - 2005.09.13 20:36:00 - [72]
 

Lol when i first started we only had frigs cruisers indys and bs(no-one had one yet,the first bs i think were dominixs)if i recall correctly we didnt have shuttles yet either lol then i come back from quite a long break from eve and find the number of ships has tripled?whats this insanityLaughing

Andicuri Vas
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2005.09.13 20:48:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Oriana Fallaci

...Well they will help them, but at the expense of a lot of time they have to invest in the beginning, and that just has a very negative impact on enjoying the game....


Very negative impact?! Why?!

With apologies to Ms. Fallaci, this is the fallacious reasoning here: That skill points add one single frikken factor to the enjoyment of this game.

Generally, if a n00b was handed a battleship full of named mods, he would lose it in a weeks time because he/she has not the EXPERIENCE to pilot it.

Oh, and BTW, a player that has been playing since beta has been in the game for roughly 26 months @ $14.95 = $388.70.....maybe they deserve some goodies. Neutral

A
V

Derron Bel
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2005.09.13 21:11:00 - [74]
 

Actually it is a good point that learning skills detract from the enjoyment of the game. Every point put towards learning is a point not put towards skills that actually help you. I mean you have veterans advising players with 300,000 skill points that they should drop everything and do all the learning skills to V (I've seen it several times). That's messed up, it will detract from people's enjoyment.

Andicuri Vas
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2005.09.13 21:40:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Derron Bel
Actually it is a good point that learning skills detract from the enjoyment of the game. Every point put towards learning is a point not put towards skills that actually help you. I mean you have veterans advising players with 300,000 skill points that they should drop everything and do all the learning skills to V (I've seen it several times). That's messed up, it will detract from people's enjoyment.


Again, why?

This presupposes that enjoyment = Tech2 and Tier2 ships with fancy mods, or high level refining and research ....NOW!

I can fly nearly every ship in the game minus HAC's, Dreads and Freighters...Recently, I have re-discovered Rifters, Tristans, Vexors, and Thoraxes and having a ball. If you don't know the difference between transversal and radial velocity, racial differences in ship design / resistance / strength and weakness or navigating during a skirmish / fleet battle, all of the skill and ship and weaponry won't buy you crap.

Want real enjoyment? Jump into Syndicate with your shiny new 200 mil fitted Raven, immediately after you have the skill to do so. You'll find out why skill POINTS mean very little.

A
V

Mog'hedian
Posted - 2005.09.13 21:43:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle
Originally by: Oriana Fallaci
If you want to help newer players, scrap learning skills.
Agreed. A new player has 2 choises:
1. Skip learning skills and focus on fun skill, but knowing that he does not play the game in the best way.
2. Train learning skills, and spend the first6 weeks or so doing nothing but level 1 missions in his condor.

Its a lose - lose situation, which actually makes the difference between new players and old even bigger (its supposed to be the opposite), since a 6 months old player will usually have spent 2 months or so training learning skills, and need more time before he has regained the time he lost on the learning skills.

If new players started with max in learning skills, then it would help lessen the gap between rookies and the elite.


Just 2 choices?
Don't think so.
Try to play the game and enjoy it.
Don't look to much at other players because there's always someone better then you,but that's really not important.
Are you sure this is a game for you?

Mangus Thermopyle
Divine Retribution
Daisho Syndicate
Posted - 2005.09.13 21:51:00 - [77]
 

So many players defending CCP, and yet no one has disagreed with my statement and said that CCP does make more new content for new players!

Why? Well, its fairly obvious: CCP DOES NOT make much new content for new players. Anyone who have played this game the latest months will know this. For that matter, you dont need to play, its enough to read the patch notes.

As if EVE really need T2 BS more than anything else. LOL

I can understand if some players likes the fact that CCP does all new content for elite players, but I do not like it. As it is now, I would guess about 50% of the players are less than 6 months old. Now is the time to increase the player experience for thos new players.

For example, one of the most obvious missing features in the game is a long storyline type of mission that new players can spend their first 10 days or so doing, while learning the game. The current 8 courier missions is the most boring and uninteresting time I have had so far in EVE, and from what I have heard from others they think the same thing.

Thats my opinion atleast, and its clearly not shared by CCP.

Having said all this, I will continue to play EVE. I just did some missions in COSMOS in my ceptor and it was really fun. Especially when I thought 5 rats where condors and instead they where crows with rockets, webifiers and warp scramblers. Yikes, that was a close one :)

I just wished CCP would listen to new players a little more, and realize that you dont need to be a oldtimer to make good suggestions and comments.

nahtoh
Caldari
Brotherhood of The Saltire
EVE Animal Control
Posted - 2005.09.13 21:55:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Derron Bel
Actually it is a good point that learning skills detract from the enjoyment of the game. Every point put towards learning is a point not put towards skills that actually help you. I mean you have veterans advising players with 300,000 skill points that they should drop everything and do all the learning skills to V (I've seen it several times). That's messed up, it will detract from people's enjoyment.


Sorry Derron but the players make that choice therfore they detract from their enjoyment of the game. Persoanlly I trained teh learning skills after I had messed about for a couple of months.

Then i waited an other couple of months before i did the advanced learning skills (which I have still not done the full approved amout of by teh looks of it).

They spend 2 months of grinding the learning skills then ***** about not having fun then its their own damm fault, no one elses they made the choice they deal with the cociquces of that choice.

Siri Danae
Gallente
Xone Trading Corp.
Posted - 2005.09.13 21:56:00 - [79]
 

You'll never catch up. But the guys who start after you (something like 10,000 since I started in March) will never catch up to you either. So...

adjust your tactics, not the game

Derron Bel
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2005.09.13 21:57:00 - [80]
 

Well mangus I played 15 months ago and theres way, way more content for new players than there was back then. And I hear there was way more content for new players then than was at launch.

If you don't like EVE, you don't have to keep playing. In fact, if you don't like eve, stop playing, it will only make you hate EVE more. Play something else. Come back to EVE when you feel like it.

Caanan
0utbreak
Posted - 2005.09.13 22:04:00 - [81]
 

EVE was almost more enjoyable for me when I started because i was discovering content within the game. If they made so much content for new players then they would not notice it because theres soo much available for them already. Your argument makes no sense, atleast think of an example that new players could use.

Andicuri Vas
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2005.09.13 22:06:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle
So many players defending CCP, and yet no one has disagreed with my statement and said that CCP does make more new content for new players!

Why? Well, its fairly obvious: CCP DOES NOT make much new content for new players. Anyone who have played this game the latest months will know this. For that matter, you dont need to play, its enough to read the patch notes.

As if EVE really need T2 BS more than anything else. LOL

I can understand if some players likes the fact that CCP does all new content for elite players, but I do not like it. As it is now, I would guess about 50% of the players are less than 6 months old. Now is the time to increase the player experience for thos new players.

For example, one of the most obvious missing features in the game is a long storyline type of mission that new players can spend their first 10 days or so doing, while learning the game. The current 8 courier missions is the most boring and uninteresting time I have had so far in EVE, and from what I have heard from others they think the same thing.

Thats my opinion atleast, and its clearly not shared by CCP.

Having said all this, I will continue to play EVE. I just did some missions in COSMOS in my ceptor and it was really fun. Especially when I thought 5 rats where condors and instead they where crows with rockets, webifiers and warp scramblers. Yikes, that was a close one :)

I just wished CCP would listen to new players a little more, and realize that you dont need to be a oldtimer to make good suggestions and comments.


Nobody is defending CCP, just pointing out your lack of imagination and willingness to go through the same hardships as everyone else, and your ( And others) insistance that the game be changed to fit your wants.

I think CCP actually does listen to players, old and new, which is why I will be here vigorously arguing against noodling around with a great game so that it can be more WoW-like

A
V

Pyro Miner
Dutch Powerrr
Posted - 2005.09.13 23:30:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Andicuri Vas
Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle
So many players defending CCP, and yet no one has disagreed with my statement and said that CCP does make more new content for new players!

Why? Well, its fairly obvious: CCP DOES NOT make much new content for new players. Anyone who have played this game the latest months will know this. For that matter, you dont need to play, its enough to read the patch notes.

As if EVE really need T2 BS more than anything else. LOL

I can understand if some players likes the fact that CCP does all new content for elite players, but I do not like it. As it is now, I would guess about 50% of the players are less than 6 months old. Now is the time to increase the player experience for thos new players.

For example, one of the most obvious missing features in the game is a long storyline type of mission that new players can spend their first 10 days or so doing, while learning the game. The current 8 courier missions is the most boring and uninteresting time I have had so far in EVE, and from what I have heard from others they think the same thing.

Thats my opinion atleast, and its clearly not shared by CCP.

Having said all this, I will continue to play EVE. I just did some missions in COSMOS in my ceptor and it was really fun. Especially when I thought 5 rats where condors and instead they where crows with rockets, webifiers and warp scramblers. Yikes, that was a close one :)

I just wished CCP would listen to new players a little more, and realize that you dont need to be a oldtimer to make good suggestions and comments.


Nobody is defending CCP, just pointing out your lack of imagination and willingness to go through the same hardships as everyone else, and your ( And others) insistance that the game be changed to fit your wants.

I think CCP actually does listen to players, old and new, which is why I will be here vigorously arguing against noodling around with a great game so that it can be more WoW-like

A
V


Signed..

Mangus Thermopyle, your crazy, there is so much new player stuff added and then your crying that the old players get something too. hey they were the people supporting eve from the beginning, so may they have some new stuff also or you want everything directed to your account only.

they work on things to keep the new players happy but they are not forgetting the old players

sure there are things to improve, but that also counts for the old players not only the new players

and as other people mentioned. outpost is not something for 1 person, its a aliance thing, and almost everyone can be part of a aliance if they want too (and alliance things are very welcom as theres to less for alliances)

and dreads are teambased ships as it cant jump alone,
a team were noobs can be part off (offcourse not the flying of the dread after 1 day in eve)




Jaabaa Prime
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2005.09.14 00:17:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle
Look at the new features in this game: dreads, freighters, outposts, tech 2 big ships, pirate implants, and so on. Anyone see a pattern?

It seems like CCP is only improving the game for the oldtimers. If you dont have several billion isk and 20M or more skillpoints, you dont exist. Its as simple as that.

I wonder how long before the new player base discovers this? Bye bye 15k concurrent online players, welcome 5k concurrent online players.


n00b rant about skills/modules/ships that can't be bought on ebay and then be insta-elite, 'nough said.

Slithereen
Amarr
Posted - 2005.09.14 00:24:00 - [85]
 

Edited by: Slithereen on 14/09/2005 00:25:48

There is plenty of low end content compared to when I was a noob back then. Many pro-noob friendly stuff wasn't around when I started.

More level 1, 2, 3 missions to care about with better bounties and NPCs. The rats back then were only 50% of the bounties they have now. And that was after they were doubled.

Deadspace Complexes. Back then I have to farm on spawns for hours, picking on a rat that spawns every few minutes or so and collecting the cans. Just stupid.

Superior mining tools and ships like mining barges.

Implant proliferation. Now you got plenty of cheap +1 and +2 limited and beta implants around.

More advanced learning skills. Noobs today can get their attributes up much faster than when I was a noob.

Destroyers and Battlecruisers. I didn't have those then.

A superior trading market. Back then I couldn't even trade named items except to spam on the trade channel.

Better ships. All the low end T1 frigs and cruisers were better today than they once where except on the tracking.


OffBeaT
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2005.09.14 00:33:00 - [86]
 

he's right, noob ships do suck and suck bad these days. i have been telling ccp for sometime that they are catering to much too the old farts in this game and sticking it too too noobs who wont in on the action as well. im not gona go into the old days where a noob had a fair fighting chance up against older players but times have changed and noobs are getting screwed without them realy having any idea what it was like in the past vs now. as for dreads being the next best thing too own, i would say they are not. they cost too much too risk and too use them too attack even stations is not worth it vs losing one so i dont think noobs or even mid range players like me need worry about them as a threat. i would be scard ****less too even move around in a dread myself.
evryone wonts a chance too trash a dread and brag about it.. i know i do. Wink

ccp needs too get there act togater and put some t2 dds out for the noobs and give noobs a faster route too get into some of them elite ships & assalt ships.
lets get fair too them again can we. eve was a pritty fair playing feild in the old days. wth happend too that.

ElweSingollo
The Higher Standard
Posted - 2005.09.14 03:06:00 - [87]
 

It makes me laugh a tad at what you are saying about new stuff... I started in march of this year so I am by no means anywhere near uber just being 6 months into the game but the point is for NEW players the entirety of eve is NEW. When I first started I can remeber being excited about training up in order to get my first Tristan and then discovering missions and trying those out I even tried a little bit of mining and found that quite the most boring thing ever... but the kicker is it was a NEW experience for me. TBH if I had anything more to learn when I first started or if I had new shiny toys to play with not only would I not of known where to start I would prolly be thouroughly confused.

Enjoy what you have around you there is a whole world for you to discover Smile.

Babulza
Posted - 2005.09.14 03:38:00 - [88]
 

Well as with many MMORPG (this is not really an RPG) CCP are travelling down a dangerous path, as you may notice with most MMORPG only the ppl that get in the game early get to be the uber players. I remember waiting for the next skills too come out so i could train some more (not this account). Skills should make u a better opponent/researcher/whatever but they shouldnt have it so you cant do anything for the first 3-5 months of the game but mine ur heart out. I think the PROBLEM here is that ther isnt enough ppl in CCP playing the game as noobs and general players to actually give some intellegent input, so they rely on the few GM's or devs that do play who quite franky are very very Bias to what they want, and cater to what they seem to think what the game needs (ie torpedos doing 30 dmg to an interceptor) tisk tisk, it is a shame. I give Eve a year maybee 2 and they wont be getting many more new ppl due to the fact you will have to train 20 skills to fly the noob ships. Doesnt CCP have a uhhh I dunno Business Plan of how they want Eve to grow or be, or are the just listening to one-sided opinions. I know this will fall on deaf ears as I dont know personally, or hobnob with any GM's or dev's and frankly I have had my words said to a few of them on several programming issues that have caused me great headache's. As a matter of Fact I'd be surprised If this post even gets read by anyone thats even within a 100 yards of CCP let alone anyone in the CCP building.

But as with all MMORPG's 'this game will out grow itself, its a perpetual black hole waiting to implode on itself its just a mtter of time, It truly is a shame because they almost have it.

"The needs of the few outway the needs of the many" (a quote for the society of the 20th century)

ElweSingollo
The Higher Standard
Posted - 2005.09.14 04:02:00 - [89]
 

Edited by: ElweSingollo on 14/09/2005 04:02:43
Originally by: Babulza
Skills should make u a better opponent/researcher/whatever but they shouldnt have it so you cant do anything for the first 3-5 months of the game but mine ur heart out.


Funny that I can't recall mining for 3-5 months of my 6 months in game I distinctly recall trying it for a bout a week and giving it up so I could shoot stuff.... must have been playing a different game Babulza Very Happy.


Unknown Subject
El Bastardos
EVESpace
Posted - 2005.09.14 05:23:00 - [90]
 

i cant believe some of the posts im reading here. im a vet player that left the game, came back after 6 months and started from scratch. ive got over a year play time in eve yet i have a char thats 10 weeks old. i started the learning skills all over (which i have completed) and i know thats something i had to do.

to all those new people posting here wanting a rush because you are new, tough. deal with it. you have advanced learning skills that were brought out for the purpose of helping newer players which the old school players never had! so stop whining and expecting a free ride.

as for mangus, have you actually been playing all that long? have you noticed that the peaks have been rising steadily for the past year? if this is your main then sorry but you have no grounds to base your observation on since you have a month of experience in eve, a month that has shown the eve record peaks in players, i might add.

to conclude, to all you new players out there, expect hard work and extreme difficulty in the first 4 months. if you cant hack it, find a game that is easier for you. personally i think a lot of us would rather do away with the whining new community and use the bandwidth stolen by these people to help those who are joining us and are dedicated to the things that are a little further than 6 inches infront of them.

btw, 10 weeks old, 3.5 million sp. not bad going for a "newbie" is it?


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