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Nyxus
Amarr
Fat J
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2005.09.04 16:31:00 - [31]
 

Pottsey - leading Eve Players to the Fountain of Wisdom ; and then dunking them repeatedly while they complain that they are thirsty.

Nyxus


Maya Rkell
Third Grade Ergonomics
Posted - 2005.09.04 16:44:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Jim Raynor
Originally by: Pottsey
Both shield extenders and plates are perfect now. Pre patch few people used them. The only change I would like to see are Xlarge extenders and plates.


Perfect? Not exactly, their HP values are okay.. but the fitting requirements should be lower for shield extenders. Shield Extenders could use a buff.. we need XL Extender too.


Agreed (yes, I'm agreeing with Jim :P)

Plates are fine as they are, shield extenders need bringing up to their level.

LUKEC
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2005.09.04 17:04:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Dred 'Morte
Oh yaa i can see a noob in this topic LUKEC... you know, even a Taranis can beat a Armageddon in the right situation you know? Rolling Eyes

friggin *******s


Not really. Point is: some ships fit plates easily, some cant. Feck, they cannot even think of biggest guns. And if u tell me how can *****munin with 2x wcs and 180mm ACs t1 beat t2/faction deimos... GL.
Plates will be fine when all ships will have viable setups with them.

Nafri
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2005.09.04 17:06:00 - [34]
 

can we please stop talking about shield extenders


its just pottsey will never understand us, and we will never understand her



Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2005.09.04 19:24:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: Pottsey on 04/09/2005 19:25:59
ďwhen tech.1 module intended for small cruisers can be used on _one_ tech.1 frigate, while armour plate intended for the same small cruisers is useful for way many more of these tech.1 frigates...Ē
Thatís the bit I donít agree with. Sure I only have one T1 frigate that can fit an oversized extender but I also only have one T1 frigate then can fit an oversized amour plate and still fit other things.





ďcan we please stop talking about shield extenders[
its just pottsey will never understand us, and we will never understand herĒ

I do understand I just donít agree. Take this line thatís often used ďextenders and plates give a much better HP boost that the passive regeneration doesn't compensate at allĒ
But when you compare plates to extenders the hitpoints are the same pretty much.

A 400mm plate is 842hitpoints and a medium shield extender is 840 hitpoints. I hardly call 2 hitpoints a much better HP boost and for sure the passive regen more then makes up for the 2 hitpoints.

Small extenders are 210hitpoints and 100mm plates is 210hitpoints but then again a small extender is only 4.5 PG compared to 6 PG on the plate. The extender has more CPU requirements but thatís dues to the passive regen boost.

The problem is must people dont understand the plates donít perfectly match up to extenders. You have the small extender to 100mm plates. There are no 200mm or 800mm version of extenders. Medium extenders match 400mm plates and large extender match 1600mm plates.

As for fitting requirements a large extender is 330 PG while a 1600mm plate is 575PG and you can lower the PG for the extender another 5%.

Pretty balanced if you ask me as it makes sense extender take up more CPU and less PG over plates.

I just donít think itís fair to say an oversized extender gimps a setup TOTALLY. Not when a 1600mm plate take up 57% more Powergrid over a large extender T2. If anything plates gimp you setup just as much as extenders.

Extenders do have a worse CPU requirement then plates but thatís not that bad considering the passive regen bonus you get. Which you should use, comes down to which you have more off on your ship. Not all ships have lots of PG and little CPU some ships and ship setups have lots of CPU and little PG.

I donít think we should see 200m and 800m version of extender as balancing modules does not mean everything has to be similar. Though it would be nice to see Xlarge plates and extenders.

Nafri
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2005.09.04 19:30:00 - [36]
 

Thing is:

I never fit extenders on my cruisers, but I fit plates


why?

cause I have 5/6 lowslots and only 3/4 midslots which needs modules


same for inties with mostly 2/3 vs 3/4 where all the good stuff has to get into midslots



and fine if you like extenders, but I and lots of others dont like them at all

j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.09.04 19:38:00 - [37]
 

"Thatís the bit I donít agree with. Sure I only have one T1 frigate that can fit an oversized extender but I also only have one T1 frigate then can fit an oversized amour plate and still fit other things."

Mhm not sure about this bit really; it'd seem that as long as the frigate has two or more low slots and at least 30 mw of grid (preferably 35) it might be possible to use the 400 mm plate on it to effect that at least can make you consider it... and the option becomes even more appealing when you start considering 200mm plates, whereas the small shield extenders appear about as popular as the 50mm & 100mm plates... i.e. not really popular at all.

(in similar way, am not sure if there's much use for medium shield extenders on the cruisers, while quite a few cruisers seem to enjoy 800mm plates, let alone the 1600mm version. It can have something to do with the fact the shield requires quite a few mid slots to be protected from common weapon types that otherwise eat it in blink of eye, extended hp or not... and these on cruisers tend to be scarce)

Naughty Boy
Chronics of ordinary hate
Posted - 2005.09.04 19:57:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: Naughty Boy on 04/09/2005 20:04:45
Originally by: j0sephine
"Thatís the bit I donít agree with. Sure I only have one T1 frigate that can fit an oversized extender but I also only have one T1 frigate then can fit an oversized amour plate and still fit other things."

Mhm not sure about this bit really; it'd seem that as long as the frigate has two or more low slots and at least 30 mw of grid (preferably 35) it might be possible to use the 400 mm plate on it to effect that at least can make you consider it...


Well, i did some testing with that. I came up with rather crap setups, but i'll mention them - for comedy value as much as experiment value:

Punisher:
Can be tanked with a 400mm plate, awesome tank even (for a t1 frig, that is). The problem is that the ship is heavy and lacking speed and, in that regard, is vastly inferior to the plated rifter. No shield extender does fit so well, in any case.

Tristan:
Same issue than the punisher, severly lacking speed but can tank ok (for a t1 frig, that is) and fit guns with a plate. To my knowledge, one of the two t1 frig that can fit a medium extender.

incursus:
Can fit a 400mm plate and autocannons, plus standard tackling gears (mwd+web+scram), and is quite fast. Even though it is lacking some damage as compared to the standard plated rifter (at best doing 60-70% of the damage of the rifter), three mid slot make up for it in some cases. Autocannons on an incursus sounds wrong, though.

merlin:
Similar to the tristan, it can fit a medium extender. It is even better due to superior cpu, iirc, and can have some 1.4k shield and 50/60/40/60 resists. Useless except as a punching bag, though.

kestrel:
Can fit 400mm plate ok, i don't know about shield extenders. I'd prefer ew in it anyway.

rifter:
King of the 400mm plate, useless with a shield extender.

All in all, i don't have a working t1 frig/ t1 cruiser that can use shield extenders correctly. Mids are just too valuable for that, and shield resists are overall not impressive. I'll just fit plate + energized nano membrane + EW and not bother sticking shield extenders just to claim i made it.

Pottsey is often right and usually come with interesting ideas, but in this case i think that shield extenders should not be overestimated.

Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.

Edit: I remember telling you, pottsey, that the rifter was probably the best frig to use with a 400mm plate. I don't remember telling you that it was the only one, though. Sorry if that wasn't clear in that particular post.

DrunkenOne
Unknown Soldiers
B O R G
Posted - 2005.09.04 20:17:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Naughty Boy

Edit: I remember telling you, pottsey, that the rifter was probably the best frig to use with a 400mm plate. I don't remember telling you that it was the only one, though. Sorry if that wasn't clear in that particular post.

The kestral is far superior. 400mm plated kestral is arguably tied best ship (with the platerax), iskwise, in the game. Vigil is up there too.

Naughty Boy
Chronics of ordinary hate
Posted - 2005.09.04 20:29:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: DrunkenOne
The kestral is far superior. 400mm plated kestral is arguably tied best ship (with the platerax), iskwise, in the game. Vigil is up there too.


As much as I'd hate to face that ship/setup in another frig, I'd hate to get caught between 10km - 20km by a faster ship running a disruptor while flying it. Granted, it's a disposable frig, so there's no big deal.

But, yeah, this setup is mean. Props to who found it Razz

Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2005.09.05 12:13:00 - [41]
 

Well we might not agree on current extenders and plates but what about Xlarge plates and extenders. Assuming you want to see them what specs would you give the Xlarge modules?


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