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Xavier Cardde
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2005.09.03 21:16:00 - [31]
 

personally i think these NPC changes destroy what little is left of solo gaming in EVE...

a regular abomination about as well thought out as African Igloos.

Kyguard
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2005.09.04 02:40:00 - [32]
 

Somewhat agree with Xavier here on this.

I feel like these new changes to NPC AI and new abilities will remove what little is left of soloing missions and rat hunting.

It's a real pain to have to depend on someone while doing missions. I understand the need to make high profit missions partly non-soloable, but to make the game completely co-op on an NPC level is just absurd.

But we'll see how things work out :)

Summersnow
Posted - 2005.09.04 02:49:00 - [33]
 

I expect what will happen is the cap drain & ew rats will just get abandoned and never farmed again.

Gonna suck for mission runners as we have no real control over which rats we have to fight.


HUGO DRAX
Aliastra
Posted - 2005.09.04 04:17:00 - [34]
 

Lets see what happens. PvP is not the moneymaker, that is what solo rat hunting is for. if they make Solo rat hunting impossible it means making up for PvP losses will be real difficult. If this is the case I my subscription will have to end and I will not recommend this game.

And missions/rats dont really pay all that well to begin with.

sonofollo
Caldari
Doomheim
Posted - 2005.09.04 08:13:00 - [35]
 

im guessing some of these rats will be rare spwns as well and might force solo players to fit WCS adn NOS to counter any draining - id also like to see a module that reduces the effect of enemy NOSing.

Sorja
11th Division
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2005.09.04 15:06:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Wrayeth
First, if sensor damping and jamming ships are included in spawns, bounties should be increased across the board - after all, if you get jammed up you won't be able to kill the frigs warp scrambling you or do anything about the battleships killing your tank. You basically just have to wave a sad good-bye to your ship.


You can assume the devs are aware of this, while it's not obvious they'll get it straight right of the bat. There are some regions, have I heard, where cruise/torpedoes are still effective weapons against cruisers, and other regions where hauler services flourish to resupply Ravens with torpedoes in the belts Laughing

So, yes, for sure, risk will yield more reward, if you happen to be target jammed, it is far worse than any other proposed change to other faction NPCs. It will take more time to kill spawns, and eventually lead to equip dampeners or jamers on the raven and pray you get rid of the jammer at first try... for very high bounties Razz

Hellspawn01
Amarr
Posted - 2005.09.04 17:52:00 - [37]
 

Making the NPCs player like is the worst idea of all Imo. If NPCs start target jamming then NP hunting will be like PvP.

Quote:
Examples of new effects for factions:
Angel Cartel: Target Paint
Blood Raiders: Cap Drain
Guristas: Target Jam
Sansha’s Nation: Tracking Disrupt
Serpentis: Sensor Dampen


The target painting, tracking disrupting and dampening is something that is marginally of acceptable.

The only thing that bugs me is, nobody will ask if the silent majority of eve wants such changes. I for myself dont want such changes. Just my opinion.

sonofollo
Caldari
Doomheim
Posted - 2005.09.04 18:45:00 - [38]
 

yeah im hoping they balance it right and perhaps realise some new modules that will help solo players - setups will change however

Filiberto
Amarr
The Drekla Consortium
Posted - 2005.09.04 20:38:00 - [39]
 

Quote:
It sounds like this change is being implemented to FORCE people to work in gangs while rat hunting in 0.0. I, for one, can say this would be cause for account cancellation - I do not enjoy hunting with others; I make my money solo because you're less likely to lose a ship due to gangmate stupidity; it also takes longer to coordinate a hunt with multiple people. Moreover, if you have no corpmates online to hunt with, you end up being unable to make money and, if there are no hostiles about to shoot at or you can't afford to lose a ship at the time, won't have anything to do once you log in.


SIGNEDCrying or Very sad

DON'T make it a group thing it's the only thing I got left to do solo in 0.0 keep group hunting for complexes and lvl 4 mission and comander spawns(can't be done solo anyway)

Jiggy
Minmatar
Posted - 2005.09.04 20:52:00 - [40]
 

So, you're meant to tank, fit a webber for frigs, fit backup ECCM, backup sensor boosters, and have super cap recharge to survive against NOS npc's?

Why dont you want people to solo NPC hunt? It's the last solo'able activity, next to mining and lvl3 missions.

Orb Lati
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2005.09.05 01:08:00 - [41]
 

Question. how effective is the ECM burst against scrambling frigs/inties? if a burse has a high change of breaking thier lock then im fine with these changes.

Basically if your going to increase the risk to solo players then you need to consider effective counter measures that a solo player can utilise to protect themselves.

Gierling
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2005.09.05 01:17:00 - [42]
 

Essentially CCP doesn't seem to want there to be any forms of relatively easy isk generation.

They want it to be damn difficult to have enough capitol to operate a Battleship it seems.

So it seems they are listening to the whiners who say that "every nub owns a BS".

Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Posted - 2005.09.05 06:32:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Hanns

NPC's cheat enough as it is, and now u want them to EW Jam and stuff to??Rolling Eyes


QFT! Why make 'em cheat even more? This is really stupid I think. Perhaps CCP dosen't understand that most of MMO's out there are massive SINGLE PLAYED multiplayer games. I don't wanna team up with some random person whos bad in english and will steal my loot anyway. I want to be able to solo! It's stupid to be forced to relay on someone else. In real world your alone too so don't force stupid human interactions ingame! Evil or Very Mad

Discorporation
Amarr
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.09.05 09:11:00 - [44]
 

I don't see why people think they suddenly can't solo.

Giving NPC's alternative options to just blowing the crap out of you with overwhelming firepower in a predictable fashion to balance their stupidity, simplymeans that the overwhelming firepower can be toned down.

RobW1
Caldari
Iyen-Oursta Salvage
Posted - 2005.09.05 14:39:00 - [45]
 

When is this scheduled to happen? TomB talks of the next big content patch... when is that?

Diana Merris
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2005.09.05 15:07:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Jiggy
So, you're meant to tank, fit a webber for frigs, fit backup ECCM, backup sensor boosters, and have super cap recharge to survive against NOS npc's?

Why dont you want people to solo NPC hunt? It's the last solo'able activity, next to mining and lvl3 missions.


I don't mean to single out Jiggy but her post seems to sum up all of the shortsighted over-reactions.

Different factions will do different things, they won't all be doing all of them at once. Angels will target paint so you'll take more damage. They won't be using jammers or dampers or disruptors.

Guristas will use jammers so you'll need to equip ECCM but you don't need tracking comps to offset the tracking disruptors beacause they don't use tracking disruptors, you don't need sensor boosters to offset the sensor dampers because they don't use sensor dampers, etc.

You know what enemy you are going to be facing so all you need to do is swap in one module as needed. If changing one slot makes it impossible for you to solo then YOU suck. I look forward to the change, it should make things more interesting. I don't see it stoping me from soloing.

Esab
Caldari
Posted - 2005.09.05 15:43:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Hikaru Okuda
Edited by: Hikaru Okuda on 03/09/2005 15:08:14

Almost reminds me of the time when NPC's were really hard--before we had battleships and good clones. Back when Moa's were just a dream for people... Any of you other old timers remember NPC's camping gates that would web you and be hitting you with missiles before your client even loaded? That was fun. Very Happy

Some places were so hard that you had to petition to get out because nobody could ever get past the gate rats. NPC's were effectively doing what it now takes a player run gatecamp to do.

Wow! Ive been playing 18 months and never saw this but I guess it did happen once.

I have mixed reactions to TomBs blog...im all for making it more realistic but with all these additions I hope that other features of the NPC rats become more believable.

Some of the speeds and tanking capabilitys of not just the battleships but also cruisers and frigates too is in my opinion completly bananas.

By all means let them acheive this but lets see some support vessels with them..transfering cap/sheild/repairing etc. After all its what I do with my accounts...one fighting ..one supporting and to be honest I have a great time.

If it means I have to seriously rethink my set ups then so be it but as ive seen in several posts dont make it so as you need multiple players to do anything. I know from experience how hard it is to get a team together when it suits all and the whole point of EvE is its there 23/7 so you can come and go as you please.

Lets have some serious OMFG! moments at some of the lower sec gates..adds a little spice as as it is now even in a barge I can still just cruise up to gates not worrying about my ship in the majority of systems.

How about a few rogue rats outside stations too?. So many times I see players afk with ship just sat there at both stations and known gates where rats dont spawn. Space is supposed to be hostile. Suprises are fun and keep everyone on their toes.

I have a close friend who has just started playing..at the moment he is just wandering between empire and 0.3s with not a care in the world and will not take any notice whatsoever of my warnings that it could end in tears if he bumps into the wrong characters.

Ok its probably the best time to learn but imagine having npcs doing a much more effective camp than they do atm ?....What a buzz that would be.

hey ho just my opinions :)


.


Hellspawn01
Amarr
Posted - 2005.09.05 16:20:00 - [48]
 

Yeah, lets make 0.0 everywhere. No more solo stuff, no more empire, no more NPC corps, only player run corps, only team missions, only 10/10 complexes. But wait!! What will the players say about this? Who cares.

Shadowsword
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2005.09.05 19:44:00 - [49]
 

A serpentis assault frig named Guardian Guard. Very Happy

I rather hope not every damned spawn start doing painfull things like jamming to you, or it may become hell to play, and as it is, hunting in group isnt very profitable.

I'm favorable to more variety, but I think the EW alaivable to NPCs should be really less efficient that player EW. One npc (with infinite cap, of course) with a tracking disruptor at 50% efficiency is a pain in the bottom. The same tiny NPC frig with 2 or 3 fully usable tracking disruptors would spell the doom of most battleships without the player being able to do much about it.

Besides, we simply lack the number of slots to have a reasonable defense against EW, and a decent tank, and enough firepower actually kill them.

sonofollo
Caldari
Doomheim
Posted - 2005.09.05 20:29:00 - [50]
 

either that or more slots on ships for EW setups

Rexthor Hammerfists
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2005.09.05 21:53:00 - [51]
 

i ahve ana c****, 12m sp - soloing rats so stupid easy its ****ing boring.

i use it as income, and doing it in groups is completely useless.

but doing things with funny cprm8s is mostly a fun thing, and thats what an mmoprg is about.



so for the npcs:
id love to see em becomin a challenge,
old vets will still b able to solo em, but the newr ones will have to group up.

i also like that the angels only target paint, and the guristas jamm, or the snahsas target dsirupt - its fair cause the angels are fecking hard.

the most important thing would still b, imo, to make the npcs more like players that are ratting or mining in a belt - so u gotta act like that.
means tackler dmg dealers etc.


make the money making less grinding and more interesting!

Jiggy
Minmatar
Posted - 2005.09.06 01:16:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Diana Merris
Originally by: Jiggy
So, you're meant to tank, fit a webber for frigs, fit backup ECCM, backup sensor boosters, and have super cap recharge to survive against NOS npc's?

Why dont you want people to solo NPC hunt? It's the last solo'able activity, next to mining and lvl3 missions.


I don't mean to single out Jiggy but her post seems to sum up all of the shortsighted over-reactions.

Different factions will do different things, they won't all be doing all of them at once. Angels will target paint so you'll take more damage. They won't be using jammers or dampers or disruptors.

Guristas will use jammers so you'll need to equip ECCM but you don't need tracking comps to offset the tracking disruptors beacause they don't use tracking disruptors, you don't need sensor boosters to offset the sensor dampers because they don't use sensor dampers, etc.

You know what enemy you are going to be facing so all you need to do is swap in one module as needed. If changing one slot makes it impossible for you to solo then YOU suck. I look forward to the change, it should make things more interesting. I don't see it stoping me from soloing.


Firstly, I didnt mean all at the same time(unless of course you do lvl4 missions or complexes that feature multiple NPC types.)

You still need to

A)Tank for all types
B)Mount webbers for MWD'ing frigs for all types(I especially like them MWD'ing in deadspace, is that a bug or feature?)
C)Do at least one more role per faction(Probably more, as TomB's language seemed to imply there were even more effects coming into play).
D)Do the same damage you do now(and in some cases more, with Logistics and Battlecruisers coming), as tomb said only some npc types would have damage reduced.

Now, each of the NPC effects seem to favour certain ship types(mid or low slot, depending on the effect, limiting what ships&races can fight which npc's, even more.

I would be all for this change, if it was going to get balanced, and be on the whole equitable.

But this is going to be a mess, WITHOUT a doubt, and take months or years to balance.


sonofollo
Caldari
Doomheim
Posted - 2005.09.06 02:11:00 - [53]
 

if its a mess for years it will keep us playing

H'sahs Dref
Posted - 2005.09.06 08:00:00 - [54]
 

I agree with some of the players here - if solo play is made impossible, my subscription goes.

Don't want to be seen whining, but there is a group of players in Eve that enjoys going solo.

Some of the suggested changes sound fun - but please make sure it's properly balanced.

Zultra Orbitant
Caldari
Xtatic
Posted - 2005.09.06 08:06:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: Zultra Orbitant on 06/09/2005 08:07:57
NPC additions??
W T F ? Useless crap tbh, why don't you fix all bugs and exploits first?
Like people taking ships from inside a POS forcefield?
Make it so POS shoots POD's in 0.0 space because how it is now just doesn't make sense and I'm about to cancel all of my 3 accounts. EVE starts to be total pointless to play.

Edit; typo's 4ts

Maya Rkell
Third Grade Ergonomics
Posted - 2005.09.06 19:57:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Discorporation
I don't see why people think they suddenly can't solo.

Giving NPC's alternative options to just blowing the crap out of you with overwhelming firepower in a predictable fashion to balance their stupidity, simplymeans that the overwhelming firepower can be toned down.


And if a set of NPC's, say, use tracking disruptors missile ships suddenly become far more useful against them...and they're now doing less damage so...

I would like to see Angels ability to do all 4 damage types toned down, though.

Messerschmitt facility
Amarr
Posted - 2005.09.06 20:09:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: Messerschmitt facility on 06/09/2005 20:29:04
Found the thread to whine about patch bugs :)

As for NPC, still got to try them

Na'Axin
Naxbar
Posted - 2005.09.06 21:15:00 - [58]
 

ah well, atleast we got something to whine about for the next year to keep the DEV's sharp :P

Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2005.09.06 21:34:00 - [59]
 

With these changes, more than ever, this game NEEDS a status bar display of some sort that tells you what items are currently affecting your ship.

If an NPC messes with my sensors, I need to be able to have a better way of telling this rather than right-clicking on my ship and viewing its info. Is this a planned feature, and will it come with the NPC changes?

Drutort
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2005.09.07 00:34:00 - [60]
 

I sure hope that npc stacking of these modules is nerfed... because if not... if you warp in or get spawned on top of your dead... and I dont know how many people will like that idea Shocked

no offense to the dev's as they have good intentions... but i highly doubt that they will get it right when they first come out... I remember what happened back then when spawns changed and we had like 6-14 cruiser spawns that would just pwn you to death with blasters real quick... the loss of ships that time was evident as you looked at the map and saw the numbers far above the normal loss of ships.

I just dont like how frigs and other BS atm have so much hp... if they want to make this more PVP like then make it... that few shoots will kill the npc if you get lucky real quick as in real pvp... other wise uber hp dmg and the new additions are going to be far far too risky for the average player, btw you can not really counter npc scramblers if you are being scrambled by everyone single one? so your chances of running are going to be slim slim, and for those who say you just need a module or 2... well that might be the case if it was real PVP ships... but if its NPC then its most likely they are going to be so overpowered that even if you dedicated all of your slots you would have a hard time to cope with the counter measures.


I’m not trying to make it look like im complaining just stating the past facts and what can happen in this situation as well, just want this implemented with careful thought and thorough testing by the public as well before hitting live.


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