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Keltin
Minmatar
Black Lotus Clan
Posted - 2005.08.20 17:26:00 - [1]
 

T2 is good for EVE. The bad thing is most T2 items have insane prices. Now, I understand all the supply/demand issues, but drones are lacking that off-setting factor of having named dropped items. Named mining drones do exist but they no longer drop. There are no named combat drones that drop. We all know the issues that are created by having no off-setting alternative. The drone market is one of the few things in game that is completely player controlled.

I just want to ask an honest question for T2 drone producers. Do you feel you are offering your drones at a decent price? I haven't seen many on the market for sale, and the ones I have seen, have been way over-priced.

I consider drones more like ammunition, it's an expendable good and it should be priced that way. You will make more by producing a heavy volume, people won't care so much when they lose them and come and replace them as soon as possible. It's not a get rich quick BPO like a ship BPO at least not from my point of view. by selling a couple here and there, you are only keeping your wallet smaller than it should/could be.

I could be wrong, but that's just my opinion.

HUGO DRAX
Aliastra
Posted - 2005.08.20 23:23:00 - [2]
 

Give it time, eventually they will figure out that folks will not spend 25-50million per drone to fill out a 8 drone bay. eventually they will be cheap enough to be considered for combat, for now they will sit in the producers hangars collecting a fine layer of space dust.

Syrec
Posted - 2005.08.21 01:10:00 - [3]
 

I hope more BPOs go out soon for these. Drones are easily lost/destroyed. The prices should be a lot lower.Shocked Till then I get a good laugh at every tech 2 drone for 20 million I see Laughing

Marcus Aurelius
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2005.08.21 09:26:00 - [4]
 

they are new, new means you skim off the luxury markets first and then slice your prices in small steps untill you have milked the top of the market maximally.

After that you can start producing for smaller profit, but there's no reason not to sell at 10 million at start if some people actually pay that.

It's not like tech2 production is fast. The supply is still very very limited.

Commodore Andrews
Golden Goose Inc
Posted - 2005.08.22 08:08:00 - [5]
 

Yes... T2 drone builders, stop bieng lame and sell the hv drones for 3m a pop or somthing... I really want to start using these

Bex Beere
Caldari
Brewery Research Ltd
Ethereal Dawn
Posted - 2005.08.22 13:39:00 - [6]
 

I also wish they were cheaper and prices are dropping considerably at the moment. However, I have also seen the skills required to build these drones Shocked and so can see why the builders want to charge high prices while they can.

Bex Beere
Factory Manager
Ominous Corp

Karazaan
Rakyra
Posted - 2005.08.25 04:56:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Commodore Andrews
Yes... T2 drone builders, stop bieng lame and sell the hv drones for 3m a pop or somthing... I really want to start using these


Maybe they are waiting to see how much isk your really is really worth... Very Happy

Aotearorian
Posted - 2005.08.26 02:50:00 - [8]
 

hmm... I wander what person will buy a T2 mining drone for 10 mil.
If you calculate how mach time it takes to recover this size of capital investment?

Nathan Grey
Gallente
Aurora Macrotechnology
Posted - 2005.08.27 04:43:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Aotearorian
hmm... I wander what person will buy a T2 mining drone for 10 mil.
If you calculate how mach time it takes to recover this size of capital investment?

Let's assume you've got a carebear that's shedding. So one MD2 + MDO5 + veldspar ~= (25m3/min + 25/4 m3/min) * 100 isk/m3 = 2500 isk/min + 2500/4 isk/min = 3125 isk/min at 100%

So it'll take around 330 minutes for a lone drone to pull 1M isk worth of trit, about 5 1/2 hours. At 10M for the drone, it'll have to survive between 55 and 100 hours (depending on average roid distence) before it's paid for itself.

Out in lowsec, it'll take less time to pay for itself, but its life expenctency goes down greatly.

Stepping Razor
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2005.08.29 04:19:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Commodore Andrews
Yes... T2 drone builders, stop bieng lame and sell the hv drones for 3m a pop or somthing... I really want to start using these


You must be kidding. Unless they've changed the skill requirements (hope they did) the lvl 5 skills required to build heavy drones are 5 to 8 weeks (depending on attrivutes and skills) of training.

The only person I know who got a heavy drone BPO just makes copies. I can't imagine training those skills up, but anyone who does deserves a decent payday for that.


Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2005.08.29 05:19:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Dark Shikari on 29/08/2005 05:21:37
The process of (most) T2 items:

1. People get T2 BPOs. They begin selling them to the high bidders--the T2 magnates. This takes about a week.

2. Magnates realise they need new skills (the drone skills are insane). They spend the next 2 days to 3 weeks training the skills.

3. The first few come off the assembly line. Since there aren't many in circulation, they end up on market at insane prices. If they aren't, someone buys them and resells. Modulated Deep Core Miners were originally 40 million each--now they're 2 million.

4. As competition sets in, the price falls drastically until a stable point is reached.

This process may not apply:

1) In the case of insane demand (HACs).
2) If the item requires a lot of skills to use and thus has very little demand (HACs before anyone trained for them, or Reactor Control IIs, or heavy drone IIs).
3) In the case of a cartel (CPR2s).

Usually, what happens here is that even though the prices appear insane to start, very few sell (compared to how many will sell later). The end result is that people often pay way overpriced amounts for the BPOs, assuming they will continue to sell for inflated prices, when they won't.

With very few exceptions, T2 BPOs end up stabilizing at a point at which they make a reasonable amount of money for the owner without overcharging customers. Nobody pays 2 million a drone for long.

Nathan Grey
Gallente
Aurora Macrotechnology
Posted - 2005.08.29 16:12:00 - [12]
 

This reminds me of how the Mining Drone 1 (MD1) market went, at least in Lonetrek. The BPO cost ~19M and each drone ~10k to build.

Week 1 of the patch: "Where are the MD1 BPOS?"
Week 2: Someone tried pricefixing at 90k/drone
Week 3: Prices stabilize around 45k/drone
Week 4: BPCs start showing, prices fall to 20-25k/drone
Week 5 & onwards: 20-23k/drone

Quick check here.at 10k profit/drone, it'll take 2000 drones to recoup the cost of the blueprint. If you use the drones you build, that can arguably offset the money you spent. But for the new T1 toys, enough people jump into the market and price "waring" occurs fast enough that you shouldn't expect any good news on recovering costs, much less a nice profit.

I really would consider it to be a good thing if either more construction skills came into play for T1 construction (even if it does only boring stuff like -2% build time) to limit the number of T1 producers, or if some sort of standardized economics test was required before market newblets bite the fingers off of the invisible hand!

Rawne Karrde
Bre-X Interstellar Shipyards
Ejectile Dysfunction
Posted - 2005.08.30 04:33:00 - [13]
 

Having been lucky enough to get an ogre II bpo i've been watching with much interest to see how this will go. I currently have 31 days left before i can build them and am just making copies till then. I must mention that even that list of bpc buyers has been booked up already.

As for pricing its simple. I'm gonna price them as high as people are willing to pay. I recognize the prices will fall over time to a more stable point that balances the isk cost with the value they add in combat. After all anti drone weapons setups still work on t2 drones. So as for price, I'll leave it to the nice people in eve to set that number.

Leowen
Industrial Giants
Posted - 2005.08.31 01:31:00 - [14]
 

It's already starting to happen for all but the Heavy Combat Drones - I am now selling Mining Drone 2 at 1.3m p/u for a 50-pack, or 1.4m p/u for a 20-pack. According to the numbers someone posted above that means it will take a dedicated miner around 7 hours to recoup the cost of each drone bought.

So basically, assuming the drone survives longer than 7 hours they are in pure profit. That's not too shabby. Any self-respecting high-sec miner would be crazy not to have a bundle of these in his hangar...

Contact me in-game to place orders by the way... (unashamed plug) Twisted Evil

Leo

Thor Darkwing
Angel Brotherhood
Posted - 2005.08.31 09:46:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Keltin
T Named mining drones do exist but they no longer drop. There are no named combat drones that drop.


1. is the thing about the hrvesters true?

2. there are named combat drones droping, seen them on escrow atleast.

Feta Solamnia
Posted - 2005.09.01 11:13:00 - [16]
 

You can copy them with less skills than producing?

We'll see such an effect for the first time in the t2 market.
First there will be a splash of supply because the bpc's will be producing along with the bpo's and then the supply will be significantly lowered when the bpc's run out.

Will we see a reverse effect? prices going up after a month instead of the classic frenzied pricedrop?
Well, we may have seen a similar-ish effect on modules with high skill demands.

Nathan Grey
Gallente
Aurora Macrotechnology
Posted - 2005.09.01 14:43:00 - [17]
 

I fail to understand. If a copy takes about as long to make as the actual toy for T2 gear, and requires 13 ranks of level 5 skills for a T2 heavy, how are we going to see a glut of T2 drones out on the market? You still have to have the skills to build the drones if you grab a copy.


 

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