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Liu Kaskakka
PAK
Posted - 2005.08.13 18:50:00 - [1]
 

I think it is totally out of balance that a few days old character can have a lot bigger cargo space than the cargo hold of my megathron, which takes a lot more skills to fly. I think this needs to be looked at ASAP.

Mods, feel free to move this in the "whats-it-called-suggestions-forum" if you think this belongs there.

And while we're at it, I also think that the industrial ships should have their hi-slots removed. It is not fair that someone can just park their badger at a belt in 1.0 and go afk while their badger gets full of veldspar just like that.

Aram Gishno
The Graduates
Posted - 2005.08.13 18:57:00 - [2]
 

what? for good measure, i'll repeat. WHAT?

A formula one car takes a lot of skill to drive, a small van takes very little
skill to drive, yet can carry a lot more than the F1 car. Are you getting my
point? If not, I shall spell it out for you.

DIFFERENT types of ships, different uses

Liu Kaskakka
PAK
Posted - 2005.08.13 19:01:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Aram Gishno
what? for good measure, i'll repeat. WHAT?

A formula one car takes a lot of skill to drive, a small van takes very little
skill to drive, yet can carry a lot more than the F1 car. Are you getting my
point? If not, I shall spell it out for you.

DIFFERENT types of ships, different uses


I fail to see the resemblance of my megathron and a formula one car. Are you suggesting that the megathron should have a higher base speed?

Soros
NibbleTek
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2005.08.13 19:01:00 - [4]
 

I don't agree, I like training up alts to haul my t2 about empire :D

Rendai
Posted - 2005.08.13 19:04:00 - [5]
 

YHBT. YHL. HAND.

P'ercev'hal
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2005.08.13 19:06:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: P''ercev''hal on 13/08/2005 19:06:21
Theres absolutely no reason your mega should have more cargo than an industrial ship... Please note "INDUSTRIAL" that's like saying s Ferarri should have as much room it as a dump truck. They have completely different uses. A megathron with 5k m3 of space would hold enough ammo to last you a few weeks which is just wrong.

Aram Gishno
The Graduates
Posted - 2005.08.13 19:06:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Liu Kaskakka

I fail to see the resemblance of my megathron and a formula one car. Are you suggesting that the megathron should have a higher base speed?



yes, along with better fireprotection. And of course a gearbox

Liu Kaskakka
PAK
Posted - 2005.08.13 19:18:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: P'ercev'hal
Edited by: P''ercev''hal on 13/08/2005 19:06:21
Theres absolutely no reason your mega should have more cargo than an industrial ship... Please note "INDUSTRIAL" that's like saying s Ferarri should have as much room it as a dump truck. They have completely different uses. A megathron with 5k m3 of space would hold enough ammo to last you a few weeks which is just wrong.


Ahem, do I have to remind you that lazer fitted ships require no ammo and can be taken into the wilderness forever without having to worry about running out of ammo. How is this balanced, if I may ask?

Liu Kaskakka
PAK
Posted - 2005.08.13 19:20:00 - [9]
 

And please, do not derail the thread out of topic. I suggest that it should take at least 3-4 months to be effective in a badger.

Vrizuh
VTECHS
Posted - 2005.08.13 19:21:00 - [10]
 

What trash.

Listen up man, your precious game wouldnt HAVE many new players if CCP went out of their way to steepen the curve. Im glad I got a badger early on. I havent 'parked' it in any space doing what you've mentioned. Simple reason? If I am in front of the computer its more interesting to play. Maybe if I didnt have a corp based in 0.5 space it may've happened, but as it is Im not gonna fly to 1.0 space just for veldspar.

Furthermore, older players can afford and use larger industrials. They have better mining lasers. They have better refining abilities. They understand the market better. In other words, anything a n00b can try doing, an experienced player can do twice as well.

Maybe you've forgotten the gap. I've been playing this game for 2 weeks now and am still on frigates and industrials. If I were playing this game without an industrial Id be cancelling my account already. Expecting a new player to spend weeks carting veldspar or heaven forbid, concentrated veldspar, back to a station in their frigate every 2 minutes is ridiculous. Its a painful exercise.

Industrials are nothing. They just remove the tedious backwards and forwards timesink of travel. They allow a person to uproot their basestation without having to travel back and forth between 2 stations dragging every ship of theirs and item to the new station.

If people are mining whilst at sleep/work/whatever its no different to gathering skill whilst offline.

Liu Kaskakka
PAK
Posted - 2005.08.13 19:26:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Vrizuh
I've been playing this game for 2 weeks now and am still on frigates and industrials. If I were playing this game without an industrial Id be cancelling my account already.


This is exactly the kind of attitude we don't want to see. New players are spoiled by the sheer hauling capabilities of a badger. Where is the feeling of achievement when you can have a badger just like that?

Berilac
Amarr
Northern Intelligence
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2005.08.13 19:31:00 - [12]
 

I agree with liu. Increase those skill reqs intill they can be increased no more, i mean, my hac can't carry anything near a bestower, but it takes longer to train for. how unfair is that? cargo should increase exponentialy as skill reqs go up, imo.


Laughing

Liu Kaskakka
PAK
Posted - 2005.08.13 19:40:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Berilac
I agree with liu. Increase those skill reqs intill they can be increased no more, i mean, my hac can't carry anything near a bestower, but it takes longer to train for. how unfair is that? cargo should increase exponentialy as skill reqs go up, imo.


Exactly, finally someone who understands. And taking into account the availability of advanced learning skills (something older characters couldn't take the advantage of when they started) and the powerskilling(tm) they bring, I would also like to suggest an additional in-game character age, say 6 months, after which the industrial ship skills would get 'unlocked'.

Mesasone
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2005.08.13 19:45:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Liu Kaskakka
Originally by: Vrizuh
I've been playing this game for 2 weeks now and am still on frigates and industrials. If I were playing this game without an industrial Id be cancelling my account already.


This is exactly the kind of attitude we don't want to see. New players are spoiled by the sheer hauling capabilities of a badger. Where is the feeling of achievement when you can have a badger just like that?


I agree. We certainly dont want any new players in EVE. Infact, I propose that CCP simply cancel all the accounts of players who are currently less than a year old. That should solve the problem. Rolling Eyes

Harry Voyager
Jolly Codgers
Posted - 2005.08.13 19:48:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Aram Gishno
what? for good measure, i'll repeat. WHAT?

A formula one car takes a lot of skill to drive, a small van takes very little
skill to drive, yet can carry a lot more than the F1 car. Are you getting my
point? If not, I shall spell it out for you.

DIFFERENT types of ships, different uses


Real life compairisons have no place in Eve. Eve is a game, and games are about balance and gameplay. Where's the balance in some five day old newb being able to haul that much stuff? Clearly there's a problem, and it needs to be rectified asap.

Harry Voyager

Zeromancer
Gallente
Corp Zero
Posted - 2005.08.13 19:51:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Zeromancer on 13/08/2005 19:52:22
removed for flaming.

Blind Fear
Amarr
Posted - 2005.08.13 19:51:00 - [17]
 

/signed

Indy skills should require:

Mechanic 5
Industry 5
Mining Barge 5
Spaceship Command 5
Empire Control 5
Wholesaling 5

Anything less is totally unfair and leads to people flying around in indys with reckless disreguard for game balance.

Palthos
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2005.08.13 19:54:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Palthos on 13/08/2005 19:55:14
Originally by: Mesasone
Originally by: Liu Kaskakka
Originally by: Vrizuh
I've been playing this game for 2 weeks now and am still on frigates and industrials. If I were playing this game without an industrial Id be cancelling my account already.


This is exactly the kind of attitude we don't want to see. New players are spoiled by the sheer hauling capabilities of a badger. Where is the feeling of achievement when you can have a badger just like that?


I agree. We certainly dont want any new players in EVE. Infact, I propose that CCP simply cancel all the accounts of players who are currently less than a year old. That should solve the problem. Rolling Eyes


Even better than that, why don't we only allow players playing for less than a year in frigs and remove tech 1 industrials altogether. There's no reason for them, all of the players worthy of haulers should just use freighters or tech 2 indys.

Wink

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2005.08.13 19:55:00 - [19]
 

“I would also like to suggest an additional in-game character age, say 6 months, after which the industrial ship skills would get 'unlocked'.”
So those of us who play to be cargo pilots should pay CCP for 6 months sit around in a star base doing nothing before we can get the smaller cargo ships? Thats a very bad idea. Why not say we should wait 6 months before pilots can get a Crusier or frigate?





“New players are spoiled by the sheer hauling capabilities of a badger. Where is the feeling of achievement when you can have a badger just like that?”
Compared to the large cargo ships a Badger is extremely small, has a very low defence, few slots that’s why it doesn’t take much skill training.

In the same way combat pilots start with frigates, go to cruisers then move to battleships. We cargo pilots start with small industry ships like the badger move onto Transport ships then onto Freighter cargo ships.

A badger should have a larger cargo space then your battleship while being easier to fly. It’s a cargo ship which compared to a battleship is easy.

Liu Kaskakka
PAK
Posted - 2005.08.13 20:01:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Pottsey
“I would also like to suggest an additional in-game character age, say 6 months, after which the industrial ship skills would get 'unlocked'.”
So those of us who play to be cargo pilots should pay CCP for 6 months sit around in a star base doing nothing before we can get the smaller cargo ships? Thats a very bad idea. Why not say we should wait 6 months before pilots can get a Crusier or frigate?


Now that you mention it, cruiser access might also bring imbalance to the game.

Quote:

“New players are spoiled by the sheer hauling capabilities of a badger. Where is the feeling of achievement when you can have a badger just like that?”
Compared to the large cargo ships a Badger is extremely small, has a very low defence, few slots that’s why it doesn’t take much skill training.

In the same way combat pilots start with frigates, go to cruisers then move to battleships. We cargo pilots start with small industry ships like the badger move onto Transport ships then onto Freighter cargo ships.

A badger should have a larger cargo space then your battleship while being easier to fly. It’s a cargo ship which compared to a battleship is easy.



Humm, maybe there should be a new mini badger called 'midger', that would be available for new players. It could have a 400m3 cargo space (to keep it smaller than my megathron cargo). Then, after the 6 month period, players could graduate into badgers.

Mesasone
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2005.08.13 20:01:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Palthos
Even better than that, why don't we only allow players playing for less than a year in frigs and remove tech 1 industrials altogether. There's no reason for them, all of the players worthy of haulers should just use freighters or tech 2 indys.Wink


Personally, I think that IF (and emphasis on the IF) we're going to let players less than a year old stay, they should fly the newb ships for at least the first eleven months. Having new players in t1 frigates could completely upset the balance of the game.

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2005.08.13 20:07:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Pottsey on 13/08/2005 20:10:42
“Humm, maybe there should be a new mini badger called 'midger', that would be available for new players. It could have a 400m3 cargo space (to keep it smaller than my megathron cargo). Then, after the 6 month period, players could graduate into badgers.”
You have to be joking or just trying to wind people up with bad ideas. There are already cargo ships with 400m3. You megathoron is a combat ship it should have far less cargo space then a cargo ship.

You are basically saying it should take 6 months to fly a 100k ship in which case I say it should take 60 years to fly your megathron after all it costs x10 more so it should take x10 as long to learn to fly it.

We also need to strip down your megathron low and medium slots as it has more then the largest cargo ships but its easier to train for a megathron and a lot cheaper to buy. It’s not fair your easy to train for battleship has more slots then the larger cargo ships that take more skills to fly.

Palthos
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2005.08.13 20:07:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Palthos on 13/08/2005 20:13:08
Originally by: Mesasone
Originally by: Palthos
Even better than that, why don't we only allow players playing for less than a year in frigs and remove tech 1 industrials altogether. There's no reason for them, all of the players worthy of haulers should just use freighters or tech 2 indys.Wink


Personally, I think that IF (and emphasis on the IF) we're going to let players less than a year old stay, they should fly the newb ships for at least the first eleven months. Having new players in t1 frigates could completely upset the balance of the game.

omg mesa, you're so right. I totally forgot that a newer player of only 6 months with a correctly setup frig could take down my afk geddon. That's just wrong. Only a player of over 1 year should be able to do that. Noob ships it is.

BabeLove
Gallente
Posted - 2005.08.13 20:34:00 - [24]
 

I say; Bring in the T2 Destroyers, Battlecruisers, Battleships, Freighters and Dreadnoughts asap and then, remove ALL T1 Ships from the game

Just leave them as components for making T2 ships

This way, newbies will have to stick with their newbs ships until they have the skills to pilot T2 ships

T1 ships are just plain wrong anyway, too much insurances on them, 50% of their cost is insured free of charge, can you imagine

Go Go T2 ships that cost 10x their full (100%) insurance payout

Remedial
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2005.08.13 20:41:00 - [25]
 

How do I trolled thread??

Hoozin
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2005.08.13 21:01:00 - [26]
 

I worked my ass off for two weeks running L2 agent missions so that I could afford my Badger Mk. II so that I could haul for mining ops for my State War Academy brothers!

I think that's about all it should take.

Darkish1
Posted - 2005.08.13 21:05:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Darkish1 on 13/08/2005 21:06:26
nm

TekRa
Minmatar
Posted - 2005.08.13 21:21:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: TekRa on 13/08/2005 21:22:33
Embarassed

TekRa
Minmatar
Posted - 2005.08.13 21:22:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Pottsey
I say it should take 60 years to fly your megathron


this is the second best idea in the thread! there are too many battleships in eve atm, and they need to be more rare, this would increase their value and make them somthing to be treasured, their extra hauling capacity really needs to be taken into account with skills too, why the hell dont battleships need industrial skills if they can haul sooo much cargo?

Ceratin
Amarr
Black Lance
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2005.08.13 21:28:00 - [30]
 

On that note, i think it sucks that people can kill my unarmed afk hauler in a noobship, which require NO skills to fly, and NO gunnery skills to use civilian weapons. These should require frigate and gunnery lvl 3/4 respectively, otherwise I can be killed by a 1 day old player if i fall asleep.

Nerf teh Ibis of doom.


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