open All Channels
seplocked Test Server Feedback
blankseplocked T2 BPO lottomarket is completely bankrupt
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2 3

Author Topic

Umbris Shadow
Posted - 2005.08.12 15:22:00 - [1]
 

either npcs must drop t2 items and t2 named
or ccp nds to triple the t2 bpos out there at the very least if u were lucky to get at t2 cap charger bpo u make 2 bil a week doing nothing
module costs 250k to build
POS and custumers r getting ****d
while a few make billions ez

big ez fix would be a npc t2 market to cap prices

i realizes rules of supply and demand but ccp capping the # of t2 bpos of each item was wrong
they should be increased in # till an eff market is reached or till prices r reasonable

t1 market works closer to rl

short term high end gains on new tech such as dreads freighter etc even bships were the same in early days
yet now we got a screwed up market some items go for 50-60 times the build cost

it is in longer term better to empire research etc than be a 0.0 alliance

this nds a major fix





theRaptor
Caldari
Tactical Operations
Posted - 2005.08.12 21:58:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: theRaptor on 12/08/2005 22:00:09
Yes and guristas arrogators should drop commander sieges. Rolling Eyes

EVE is not fair. Life is not fair. Get over it. The lottery will be done away with for T3 (which is supposed to be POS based), but until then it is staying because there are only a handful of items to handout.

P.S. Cap recharger 2 owners make a killing because a handful of people bought up all the dozens of BPO's when they came out because they where useless. Then CCP nerfed cap power relays, and suddenly cap recharger's where worth while.

Caeden Nicomachean
The Older Gamers
R0ADKILL
Posted - 2005.08.12 23:05:00 - [3]
 

Opening T2 to the general public would make it the same as T1 - useless to producers. People who sell at mineral prices decrease margins down to near zero, T2 is what these folks work towards and for. The high barrier entry ensures that people think about it a little before selling at some kinda nutty price.

T2 building and research takes a significant skill sacrifice. To buy takes a significant monetary sacrifice. This is as it should be.

And frankly, coming from somone who does business in meat space - T1 is nothing whatever like it. In the real world, just setting up a convenience store has a significant barrier to entry. Want to compare it to real world? Fine, T1 is like your local flea market.

In the real world you either are born with money, come up with a new idea (research), or raise capital (small business loan), or you partner with several investors to put together a business.

Sound familiar?

Ulthar
Caldari
Rock Tronics
Posted - 2005.08.13 03:01:00 - [4]
 

Hmmm, I remember back in the day when they were talking about reverse engineering prototypes-- they would enable it without saying a word on how to do it (some esoteric skill combo) and only those who had the smarts to figure it out would have a MONOPOLY on building that item.

Eve was built on one thing: fortune to the smartest, the best or the luckiest (and it is always better to be lucky than good, remember). Pure, unbridled capitalism, backed with strong fleets to enforce those monopolies. Er, or so the tales went back in the day.

Yes, this charging so much for player-only supplied goods was built into the system, at least from what I recall back during testing and early release. Nothing inherently fair about the system; you have to rely on your corpmates, who may drop out of the game at a critical moment, or rob you blind and skip off to the enemy; you have to get lucky on npc drops or mission rewards; you have to have the winning ticket at the Tech II lotto. Ask BIG how many people play their lottery every other week without winning, because it is a lottery. Boom, there's enough ISK for a battleship, thank you very much. Does not awarding the majority of participants mean it is unfair?

The payout is just as rare as with the Tech II lotto (probably more rare, only 26 a year) and if the Tech II lotto gives a greater reward, remember the time invested in training the necessary skills, as well as (in all probability) running quite a few missions to be able to use the agents.

I'm not saying that the lotto, as it stands now, even rises to the level of good or acceptable. I don't think it does. It is too automatic, gives nothing to do while the agent grinds away by itself. But the concept of the extremely rare BPOs granting a virtual monopoly to those lucky enough to get them is something that has been around for quite a long time. It's just getting to the good part, in my opinion.

Ulthar

Caeden Nicomachean
The Older Gamers
R0ADKILL
Posted - 2005.08.13 12:02:00 - [5]
 

Don't get me wrong, the lottery system I could see changing...but its another one of those isues that can be broken even worse by "fixing" it. If there wasn't at least some sort of randomness to it (luck), then the folks with 1000RPs and 2 months in the game would have little hope as compared to the beta testers...which would stifle new entries into the marketplace.

In the end, provide more options to T1 builders. Which they are doing. T2 prints can be had in the auction channel or escrow for much less than capital production bpos if you keep an eye peeled.

Messerschmitt facility
Amarr
Posted - 2005.08.14 07:50:00 - [6]
 

On this thing I realy agree with the man above...
Actualy they should throw out T2 BPO's 100 times more.
What you are afraid of competitions you lucky carebeares that already got one of those uber BPO's?
I bet it's cool when you are the single guy that got that type of BPO and you can set your ridiculous prices you slakers

Caeden Nicomachean
The Older Gamers
R0ADKILL
Posted - 2005.08.14 18:49:00 - [7]
 

I'm not defending the lottery system, but its rather obvious comments such as the above are made by consumers who goggle at the T2 items pricetag. In some instances (occator), sure. But compare 1400IIs to 1400 scouts.

Do a little thinking about it, or try producing T1 for a couple of weeks. Note the waste of time margins. Then consider whether there needs to be a high barrier to entry to some blueprints.

I want to repeat again - try producing T1 items, such as battleships for a couple of weeks. Without mining the minerals.

PVP pilot is not the only career in the game. Neither is miner.

Lumelame
Posted - 2005.08.15 11:01:00 - [8]
 

Maybe, introduce BPC offer with R&D Agents
Offer come with 3 choises :
- Limited runs for a small amount of RP
- Average runs for a greater amount of RP
- Max Runs for a great amount of RP

Caeden Nicomachean
The Older Gamers
R0ADKILL
Posted - 2005.08.15 15:34:00 - [9]
 

I'd rather see the ability to use RPs to customize modules/ships. Reverse engineer a T2 BPC into a "base" T3 BPC (which has T1 stats but three "slots"). Then you utilize RPs to fill those slots with custom bonuses.

The trick is ensuring T1 maintains its viability as primarily a miner-producer outlet, T2 maintains its business oriented value, and T3 is the most research-centric of the three.

pshepherd
Caldari
Subach-Tech
Posted - 2005.08.15 16:33:00 - [10]
 

what if by RE'ing something you would get a limited run bplueprint of the item. However, the item would be illigal in empire space (since the bpo wasen't owned by you) and perhaps the item has slightly lower stats.

Kelgen Thann
SUBLIME L.L.C.
SMASH Alliance
Posted - 2005.08.17 05:07:00 - [11]
 

I would have the BPO's balanced to the items use. HIGH volume items should have more BPOs Low volume items should have very few.

Cap 2's, and basic mods should have a lot of BPO's out there. Ships should have very few.

Or base it on production cost (negating market fluctuations, and using raw components used)

Low cost = more BPOS
Med Cost = less BPOS
High cost = very few BPOS

That would be a balanced lottery system.

Velios
M. Corp
M. PIRE
Posted - 2005.08.17 09:32:00 - [12]
 

Sounds sensible Kelgen Thann

Original Prankster
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2005.08.17 15:52:00 - [13]
 

totally agree with T2 items being overpriced.

biggest problem to me is the ships, because the insurance only pays out the market price?

so thats like 5-10% af what they cost from a player ^^

Messerschmitt facility
Amarr
Posted - 2005.08.17 17:32:00 - [14]
 

Meaning that players get a 90% profit

Kermos
Posted - 2005.08.17 18:59:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Messerschmitt facility
Meaning that players get a 90% profit


Actually if the value is 10% of what is being charged by the player, that is a 1000% profit...


Caeden Nicomachean
The Older Gamers
R0ADKILL
Posted - 2005.08.18 05:48:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Kelgen Thann
I would have the BPO's balanced to the items use. HIGH volume items should have more BPOs Low volume items should have very few.

Cap 2's, and basic mods should have a lot of BPO's out there. Ships should have very few.

Or base it on production cost (negating market fluctuations, and using raw components used)

Low cost = more BPOS
Med Cost = less BPOS
High cost = very few BPOS

That would be a balanced lottery system.


The latter is already allowed for, as every item has a base price which I do believe is based on construction. Only the devs know if that is a factor.

Volume is difficult to use as a benchmark because the market (via price changes) can move with unpredictability. Builder drops prices, items move like the wind - or the aggregate raise it and they crawl off the shelves. Factor in flavor of the months and the revolving nerf bat.

Why can't we insure T2 items more? The first thing that comes to mind is that the meaty portion of T2 pricing is market driven - i.e., it doesn't exist. At any moment an item can (and often does) drop through the floor, or the reverse. They have around 11 coders, not a good expendature of time to have someone constantly tracking which mod is worth what, etc - and difficult to quantify even with the extra data they have at their fingertips.

And again...compare T2 pricing to named items. 1400 scouts to 1400IIs. Faction frigs to Intys. Then keep in mind that that imaginary money that makes up T2 items also makes up the guts of Eve that a lot of people are playing, the living guts that makes up the market and seperates this from an npc driven economy. T1 doesn't have that.

The 1000% profit may be true for the few folks that win a BPO then produce from it, and for some fantastic BPOs out there. For a big part of the reality chunk you are factoring a 2billion or so investment into your margins for the print itself, or paying someone else a margin for the BPC. A bunch of the folks that win a BPO sell it off, its like winning a faction ship to a big section. I'd wager well over half the BPOs in production were purchased.

Gronsak
Amarr
Posted - 2005.08.18 11:38:00 - [17]
 

bah atm you cant buy a zealot for love nor isk

same goes for a lot of the HAC out there

a lot of players can use the ships yet tehre isnt enough BPO to supply them witht he ships

i been waiting like 15days for a deimos and a ishtar. ill be waiting another 15days before i get it. in my optinion that is very wrong.

Perhaps get NPC to sell BPC of t2 mods and ships at a pretty high price, say the insurance cost ? so a HAC BPC = 20mil for 1run
that way people with BPO still make **** loads of isk as it would cost them nothing but someone buying a HAC BPC from NPC pays 20mil for it.

so its no viable to compete with BPO holders

also would be a nice isk sink. a very nice one.

Maybe even get NPC to sell BPO, is doesnt effect reserch as they get the print for free and could sell it easy at 95% of NPC price

Bah i just hate that ive had HAC lvl 5 for over a month and no HAC to use. supply is so low



Evil or Very Mad

Wrayeth
EdgeGamers
Situation: Normal
Posted - 2005.08.18 15:11:00 - [18]
 

I have to agree that the price gouging is insane. I've had Torpedo Specialization since just after the missile patch but can't get my hands on any tech 2 launchers - the BPO owners are charging too much. For the price of ONE set of launchers, I could buy and insure a tier 2 battleship.

I've even gone as far as to train up rocket science and pick up the best Lai Dai research agent in hopes that I might get lucky and get a BPO, since I'm not going to get the launchers any other way.

(On a side note, on the one-in-a-few-hundred-million chance that I *do* get a siege II BPO, I plan on charging 15 mil to start for siege launcher II's as long as I don't take a loss by doing so - and I don't care what the owners of the other siege II BPOs think of it.)

Caeden Nicomachean
The Older Gamers
R0ADKILL
Posted - 2005.08.18 16:31:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Wrayeth
I have to agree that the price gouging is insane. I've had Torpedo Specialization since just after the missile patch but can't get my hands on any tech 2 launchers - the BPO owners are charging too much. For the price of ONE set of launchers, I could buy and insure a tier 2 battleship.



Yowch, these are really bad. They been out long?


Quote:

(On a side note, on the one-in-a-few-hundred-million chance that I *do* get a siege II BPO, I plan on charging 15 mil to start for siege launcher II's as long as I don't take a loss by doing so - and I don't care what the owners of the other siege II BPOs think of it.)


There are others that share your views, especially as far as ships go.

Thing is, its demand that settles price in the end - people charge what the market will bear. Folks pay these prices, so the modules move. Sales slow, prices go down (assuming an impatient crowd of sellers).

Charity is good stuff...but I suspect you would wind up selling the bpo after a couple of months when someone offered you 10-15bil for it, then prices would readjust to the market. Sometime after a launcher II got a wrecking shot on you at a gate :)

Cheers!Cool

Kelgen Thann
SUBLIME L.L.C.
SMASH Alliance
Posted - 2005.08.19 07:50:00 - [20]
 

I still think that production cost should dictate how many BPO's are released.

If something is cheaper it should be more common. at the moment the difference in release volumes between ships and mods is neglible.


John Blackthorn
Foundation
Posted - 2005.08.19 23:27:00 - [21]
 

A solid reason for more t2 blue prints is that there would be more builders and people would need to buy pos minerals again. Running a pos on most type of moon mining is a total loss these days.

-BT

Lagar
Caldari
Core Domination
Posted - 2005.08.20 10:36:00 - [22]
 

If you have a T2 BPO how about this.... Dont sell it.. you would earn more isk making it over and over again than Just sell it for a few bill.. also it will make the price go down due to competing prizes.
this is the simplest way to prevent this from happening.

the reason this dont have to happen is cause some peeps cant think longterm.. they want a Bill isk now....
kind of sad but true.. Confused

TuRtLe HeAd
Apocalypse Enterprises
Posted - 2005.08.20 10:42:00 - [23]
 

ok Then Seed Tech II BPC's on the EvE Market

Then people will stop selling 1 HAC BPC for 50 million .

An introduction of Tech II BPC's on the EvE Market would soon sort problems out without affecting the BPO market.

Roderic Excelion
Posted - 2005.08.25 10:06:00 - [24]
 

Done a years work roughtly in 2 fields (and the ones I thought would be uncommon/unpopular) and still not seen a thing.

Meh...

So much for my dream of being a scientist...

Roderic Excelion
Posted - 2005.08.25 10:16:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Roderic Excelion on 25/08/2005 10:20:21

oh, and please do sell it... to me... (just accept payment in %age of sales, pls... billions... yikes!)

My current theory is that if I ever get a ship or weapon BPO from my research, I'll make 1000odd 100 run copies and sell/give them away dirt cheap. So I miss out on money, what a pitty. I however will be able to see more people flying a more varied range of ships as the prices will be reasonable.

I've been able to fly every frigate sized ship in the game for about a year and a half in total (except the new ones, they're only been flyable since they came out) and also all forms of Gallente transports and industrials, all caldari Cruiser sized ships.

That said you will not see me in a transport, an Int, a HAC, an AF, a StB... I mean, why would I pay 50 odd million isk for a transport ship? For that I could get 100 iteron Mk.Vs. Since the Iteron carries more at a faster speed, and at least has the OPTION to fit a turret for self defence... As for those nice frigates... frigates are easy to kill, and yet some people expect to see me pay 10 Mill to get into one... err.... no. I think I'd rather just buy a new ship for 100 thousand instead, when it blows up. That or use a Destroyer, which has a more sensible price of 1 Mill tops for a 8 turret frigate.

Grey Area
Caldari
Posted - 2005.08.25 10:38:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Wrayeth
I have to agree that the price gouging is insane. I've had Torpedo Specialization since just after the missile patch but can't get my hands on any tech 2 launchers - the BPO owners are charging too much. For the price of ONE set of launchers, I could buy and insure a tier 2 battleship.


See, there's a flaw in that statement. The price is only "too much" if no one buys.

I will state that we are lucky enough to have a Tech II BP0. It is the same stats as a named item that sells on escrow for 100 million, but has higher fitting requirements. So we charged 25 million for it. I don't think that is "gouging". The manufacture cost is only part of the equation...why don't you factor in all the time I spent running stupid missions for that R&D agent? Or the skill training that I spent on the science skills that are required to research the blueprint?

I know our price wasn't "Too high" because we sold 60 or so in about 2 weeks. Now the demand is slacking off, so guess what? The price will come down.

Also, had we sold them for about 5 million, I know what would have happened...some clown would have bought the whole stock, then put them straight back on the market for double or triple...I've seen it happen in my previous corp.

Right now we sell as many as we can make. There's no need for us to sell more, so no real need to drop the price.

Is it fair? Probably not. It is however as fair as any random distribution system ever gets. And it's a lot fairer than issuing them based on performing some task or investing loads of ISK for a guaranteed result. THAT would lead to all the BP0's gravitating to the big corps...THEN I think you'd see some TRUE predatory pricing policies, and probably price fixing on a grand scale.

Careful what you wish for, it might come true.

Markie
Trojan Trolls
Posted - 2005.08.25 11:18:00 - [27]
 

I think the T2 BPO carry on is a little wrong as people here keep quoating real life but you are forgeting one thing, in real life an item gets made/invented and then relised, then diffrent veraiants of this are then made, so why dont they make it possible to take the item and reverse engneer it as that's what would happen in R/L.

By doing this the item could be a lot higher mineral requirment to build and/or highr fitting etc but provide the same bonus. This would make them a lesser option and then this would stop the one sided un-fair lotter as I have seen only the rich getting richer because they can afford to buy the new T2 BPO's that are coming up for sale.

I know if I had a T2 BPO I would not be saying this but at least I can abmit it, there needs to be some ballance, I don't want to see T2 BPO's nerfed but ballenced would be nice.


theRaptor
Caldari
Tactical Operations
Posted - 2005.08.25 11:55:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Markie
I think the T2 BPO carry on is a little wrong as people here keep quoating real life but you are forgeting one thing, in real life an item gets made/invented and then relised, then diffrent veraiants of this are then made, so why dont they make it possible to take the item and reverse engneer it as that's what would happen in R/L.


No. In real life a company would get a patent monopoly on an invention for fifteen odd years.

T2 is broken in a number of ways. And its not going to be fixed, because it would take time away from working on tech three. At best I see CCP throwing some BPC's into the research lottery.

Kenn
Caldari
McKae Industries and Research
Posted - 2005.08.25 12:31:00 - [29]
 

Rolling Eyes

Another player (I forget his name) Brought up an interesting point about the lottery system.
Eve is a world of a very high technology wayy beyond our own real world. WE live in the information
age where all information and media can be copied and is copied and made redily available to everyone.
Eve should be no different. They suggested that all blue prints be made easily available and affordable
to everyone. It should be the players skills and level requirements along with facilities (and or items)
needed that determine useability of the blue print. To put it in todays terms you can get a blue print
on a Boeing 747 but I wish you luck on building one even if you have the entire manufacturing plant at your
disposal. There is a certain amount of engineering know how to be able to do that (all by yourself at least
LOL ) and the same should apply to EVE. The Blue Prints should not be restricted in a tech world light years
ahead of our own so information should flow easily. The restriction should come from the players abilities
ie. skills possessed to use them along with what ever else is needed to build the item. This would be much
more consistant with the game mechanics and the EVE world I think. Sure everyone can achieve those levels but
it should take a VERY long time to do so. Perhaps even Player Stat requirements should be added as well. Players
who put their points into stats for combat have to accept they won't be researchers and manufacturers and you
immediately weed out a large percentage of players. Now your T1 and T2 products will have value because only so
many people can build them.

Just a thought.


Wink

Leneerra
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2005.08.26 14:24:00 - [30]
 

If they'd just get the t2 bpo that are in inactive acounts and redistribute those if the account is cancelled. that would improve matters somewhat I guess


Pages: [1] 2 3

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only