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blankseplocked For those saying freighters WOULDN'T ruin the economy. You were wrong
 
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Deja Thoris
Invicta.
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2005.08.05 01:56:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Bhaal
Quote:
This is wrong.

Its taking advantage of poor game mechanics to make a profit not commesurate with the skill or effort required.

This is the trade route equivalent of farming complexes.


Same damn thing the T2 lottery does, yet CCP has had that in game for over a year...

Just another form of monopoly in EVE, the DEV's seem to like it that way, so rock on Freighter-Traders!


Yes, lets compound mistakes instead of learning from an old oneRolling Eyes

Vivus Mors
Posted - 2005.08.05 02:04:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Bhaal
Quote:
Ok So what your saying is that 100 people used to do this route bringing in 650 mil intot he game. Now one person is doing it and getting the 650 mil. How is that feeding anymore isk into the game than before? This thread topic needs to be changed to "someone beat me out in the long-limb roe market" Hate to say it but thats capitalism baby, adapt.



I agree 100%.

If combat PvP is going to be as ruthless as it is in this game, so should every other form of PvP...


By Jove I think they’ve got it!

I’m honestly not seeing where this terrible problem is coming from, there is no exploit, there is no unfair practices, and if anything, the person making good money on trade routes is getting rewarded now for putting so much investment into his profession as a trader. If anything, I’m envious of his position and I can’t applaud his initiative enough.

The market mechanics are just as stalwart as they have ever been.

You or any group of people can only buy so much from the market before prices rise on that item, and when you sell, you can only sell but so much before the buy price starts to fall off.

Now, if 10 people can buy 1,000 “Widgets” each and then sell them all before sell the price rises or buy price falls then that is ok.

But now that one person can buy 10,000 “Widgets” and do all the foot work themselves that is now unfair?

I am having a hard time conjuring sympathy for a mechanic that has been in game since the beginning.

If someone was devout enough to make 10 hauls of 1,000 widgets each, that is the exact same thing as 1 haul of 10,000 widgets, and that has always been “ok” before now, but because they are in a bigger boat and prefer to make 1 haul of 10,000 rather than 10 hauls of 1,000 that is now unacceptable?

Why exactly?

Did that player do anything you couldn’t do?

He worked for his money, worked for his skills (invested the time anyway just like anyone has to), got himself a freighter which the devs wouldn’t have put in the game if they didn’t want people to use them, and now he’s using his freighter as a station to station transport which he was 99.9% likely to have been doing even before now in an Iteron or whatever, so now he’s upgraded.

You can train up for a freighter, you can work hard and buy one (heck there are several sales and auctions for them going in the “for sale” board as we speak). And before you say it, YES, freighters are expensive, it’s a vessel that dwarfs a battleship what would you expect?

Freighters are EXTREMELY limited in their uses, but in those uses they are so far ahead of the competition as to not even be worthy of mentioning, and that is why freighters exist and why many people want them. For hauling vast amounts of materials for corps that build a squadron of battleships at a time, the freighter is a God sent gift (well, maybe not “God sent” but at least Dev Sent Gift is appropriate) and a much needed boost in the hauling capabilities for corps that can easily have a billion m3 in “stuff” they need to move.

I for one am overjoyed at the possibilities of Outposts as well, and at least for practicality sake, the freighter is basically the only answer to that facet.

Now of course, when traders see they can make a trade run of basically any size up to 800k m3 or so (depending on which model), of course they are going to jump on that like a frog and cash in if they can on their new found capability to trade on a level never before possible.

If you are competing directly with a freighter runner in one place, perhaps you need to look into another commodity or even another area to trade in. I know that doesn’t sound very good, and it admittedly wouldn’t be fun to have to try and out haul a freighter trader while you’re in an industrial or transport, but he’s paid his dues and you can do precisely what he has if you just do what he has done to get where he is now.

Latency
Posted - 2005.08.05 05:10:00 - [93]
 

Just a couple of fun facts and setting stuff straight:

- Approximately 12 billion ISK is required to "flatten" the route mentioned in 1 go. If someone has this amount of isk to blow on it, fine. I am certain anyone with the venture capital and knowledge of this route would have done exactly the same.

- A little calculation shows that the average markup is approximately 100 to 200 million ISK per roundtrip, edging closer towards 100 as people realise what is happening and buy their "share" at a higher price than before, raising the low-water-mark.

- As such, the 500-750(?) mil per trip claimed in some posts is hugely exaggerated, but...

- ... the maximum theoretical yield per single run is indeed 590 million in one multi-system trip, if you can buy it at lowest price and sell at highest, and have a Charon @ level 5. But this is not going to happen unless there's one of those nice 12+ hour database maintenances (yes people this is a hint! ready your market orders :)

An additional problem with this max-profit route is that this reduces the profit per hour dramatically because we're talking 7 to 16+ jumps here (which you have to travel back from too). With these freighters, time is money, and the shorter, seemingly less profitable routes are better than the high profit inter-region ones (again a hint).

- Total throughput of the route the original poster is referring to, as stated by several people in above posts, remains approximately the same because of the dynamic price supply/demand mechanism. Of course it's slightly higher now because mass volume is bought in one go at the "cheap" rate, rather than lots of small buys slowly making the price creep up and level out. This is why one has to buy all the stuff he expects to be shifting in ONE GO rather than per trip (another hint, which most regular traders have found out on their own anyway)

- Hi, I am an alt! (to whom it may concern)

Do I think freighters ruin the economy? No, I don't.

Do I think freighters ruin opportunities for the smaller trader? No, I don't.

There are plenty routes available that aren't interesting for a freighter trader due to not having enough volume available before the price ramps up to unprofitable levels, but are great for transports/industrials (and short, too). There's also a lot of routes in lower security that can be done with such transports with relative safety, where the freighter would risk far too much (unless escorted, of course)


Happy trading Wink

Nikko Forte
Amarr
Dead Flesh Corp
Posted - 2005.08.05 05:52:00 - [94]
 

To the alt who just posted :] -

I dont know how much money it took, but he did flatten it. Where do you get your numbers? Just thought some out of thin air? Oh and the 650mil isnt an exaggeration.

Palthos
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2005.08.05 06:10:00 - [95]
 

This is most certainly a problem. Being able to earn so much isk a day trading like this is a punch in the face to all players who work for their isk.

Devs, for the love of god, when you get back from vacation put this as a priority in the "non-bug" category of your to-do list.

Dsanta2345
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2005.08.05 06:14:00 - [96]
 

why are ppl complaining about this, im in a corp where ppl make 1 billion a day doing things other than trading and they dont even use a freighter.

Vivus Mors
Posted - 2005.08.05 06:35:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Palthos
This is most certainly a problem. Being able to earn so much isk a day trading like this is a punch in the face to all players who work for their isk.

Devs, for the love of god, when you get back from vacation put this as a priority in the "non-bug" category of your to-do list.


Now, how exactly is this person making a lot of money ANY different from anyone or even any corp out there making absolutely insane amounts of money through the same or other means.

Even Tech 2 producers aside, there are people and groups that can make every day what this guy has to hope the market resets to every so often.

It’s painfully obvious of a certain streak of envy running through this thread that anyone that can’t meet or beat this guy simply wants CCP to nerf him.

So if it’s ok for other players to make insane amounts of money completely legitimately, why is it so wrong for this person to do the exact same thing and earn a living? (admittedly a good one)

If you don’t like that he’s a better trader than you, then don’t compete with him, no matter how big his ship is, EVE is a LOT bigger, and there are other things to trade.

If you have to cry that the sky is falling just because he’s doing well, then maybe it’s time to look at yourself and see what you can do to improve your station rather than trying to attack his.

I guess you would also call on the government to “nerf” super-tankers and freighters in real life because they can haul so much and potentially make so much money?

This is very basic economics, if he can buy more, and move more, he can sell more and make more money. This is why every last person here that has traded or sold anything that happened to fill his cargo hold has long since realized that if they have a bigger hold, they can make even more money. This is why Industrials and Transports have been useful up till now.

Just because he is better than you at what you’re trying to compete with him at doesn’t mean he’s done anything wrong even in the slightest.

Complaining that he can trade more/better than you is like someone whining that their 2 day old character just got obliterated by a 2 year veteran. The vet put in his time, paid his dues, trained up, and worked hard to get where he is, and because he has invested more and gotten better at doing what he does, he can and will chew up and spit out the bones of a lesser character.

Now while not violent, a better trader that has worked harder and trained further than you should and likely would trade better than you.

If you can’t get into a freighter, then you likely can’t compete with him eye-to-eye because he’s on an entirely different plane, and you need to come to terms with that. If you can get into a freighter, then button up and beat him at his own game.

There isn’t so much as one thing he can do that you can’t do just the same if you just put in the same effort and investment he has.

Vanesa Garcia
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2005.08.05 06:44:00 - [98]
 

Edited by: Vanesa Garcia on 05/08/2005 06:44:48
Originally by: Dsanta2345
why are ppl complaining about this, im in a corp where ppl make 1 billion a day doing things other than trading and they dont even use a freighter.


Probably because you lie? Oveur clearly stated that there are less than 1000 characters who have over 1 bil. I doubt that you know anybody who making 1 billion a day everyday.

Freighters, allow you to make 1 billion a day solo, in 100% safety and without using your brains. This is wrong. lvl4 missions has been nerfed for much more less issues.



Latency
Posted - 2005.08.05 07:40:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Nikko Forte
To the alt who just posted :] -
I dont know how much money it took, but he did flatten it.


Yes, he did. 5,000,000 x 2,400 = <fill in answer here>

Originally by: Nikko Forte

Where do you get your numbers? Just thought some out of thin air?


No I got them from the three-headed monkey that's right behind you.
Alternatively, I got them out of someone's wallet. Whichever you deem more plausible.

Originally by: Nikko Forte
Oh and the 650mil isnt an exaggeration.


It's not when you consider the whole pile of goods. I was referring to the people stating bogus amounts of isk per run or per hour (like in post #42). Get a good buy price and you get 650M profit, but only if you have the 12 bil to cough up for it, and then only after 5-6 hours of work.


Daddy's Princess
Roid Ravagers
Unitary Enterprises
Posted - 2005.08.05 07:51:00 - [100]
 

I have to LOL at this whining!

What you're really whining about is "OMG he did what I wanted to do, before me! How dare someone play hard!"

Sit down and shut up please!

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2005.08.05 07:55:00 - [101]
 

The problem as I see it is this:

NPC trading is a way for a lot of players of all skill levels to make an income in Eve on par with their skill and effort.
Those players have had a perfectly legitimate form of gameplay effective removed from them by high sp, wealthy characters.

This was warned about, and CCP did not listen - fine, it is their game.
However, that is no comfort to those players who now have to retrain their characters to earn isk in other ways.

What is lacking is risk.
Those high sp, wealthy characters should not be allowed to roam through safe space, amassing all the wealth which is available, to the detriment of younger, less wealthy players.

Freighters, as I understood it, were meant to help with the logistics of POS, capital ship construction, and the seeding of 0.0
None of those things require access to 0.5+, and restricting that access would have avoided these problems.

Arguing the specific economics of the situation (redistribution of wealth) does nothing but obscure the fact that, at a very basic level, a majority of players got their gameplay ruined by a minority of "elite" players.

Now, I'm no carebear, and even I can see that this is wrong. Maybe I have lost my sense of reason, but better that than my sense of fair play.

Palthos
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2005.08.05 08:07:00 - [102]
 

Edited by: Palthos on 05/08/2005 08:30:36
Originally by: Vivus Mors



It’s painfully obvious of a certain streak of envy running through this thread that anyone that can’t meet or beat this guy simply wants CCP to nerf him.




It is not a problem necessarily in the way that you think we see it. The problem comes from the fact that the devs have made many "balancing" changes to eve in order to promote different professions. Just recently level 4 missions have been nerfed (more so in empire) so that people could not just do those missions in safe space with no risk and become billionaires. Now all one has to do is buy a freighter and he can earn billions even easier while still being in safe space.

If the devs felt the need to nerf level 4 missions (again, mostly .5+ agents) and the likes then it is wrong for the devs to allow these people to continue. (All right, I guess this part of the argument is a little out of jealousy but it is still valid)

Other traders will also soon see their trade routes dry up as more and more freighters are released. A whole profession for newer players lost due to freighters. Adapt? Yes, I guess they will have to but these trade routes allowed them to get a foothold in EVE. This is a game after all, why should the veterans be able to force out the newer players from a whole profession? In life, it is very true that the weak perish and the strong survive (I love you Charles Darwin) but EVE is not like real life (well, obviously). There are no laws to regulate what people do, only the devs.

As for investment, if they can pay off the price of the freighter in 1 day then there is no investment. All one needs is 1 billion for the freighter and they're off. (hmmm, I have over 1 billion isk, maybe I should...umm...hrmm..Embarassed)

Part of what makes EVE great is the effort one needs to put in order to become successful. The high penalty for death in the game also makes it that much more exhilarating. These freighter empire traders have neither.

These people will become super-rich and may even throw off the market. If they use the freighters to finance let's say a pvp character the market will suffer. How? When these people lose ships/modules all they will need to do is buy one off the market and not care about the price. Multiply this by a lot of freighter owners and there's inflation. True the people selling the modules will earn a little more but tbh, those people are generally the elite few (tech 2 bpo owners).
Edit: I'll "pre-argument" concede that this idea is a bit of a stretch but it is still possible (if a lot of people start hopping into freighters the possibility increases).

Now a complete nerf of the trading system is not in order but a slight revamp is needed. Should freighters be unable to trade? No, but should freighters work even better than Oveur's isk generating screensaver? I say no.



Aziza
Posted - 2005.08.05 08:44:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Avon
The problem as I see it is this:

NPC trading is a way for a lot of players of all skill levels to make an income in Eve on par with their skill and effort.
Those players have had a perfectly legitimate form of gameplay effective removed from them by high sp, wealthy characters.

This was warned about, and CCP did not listen - fine, it is their game.
However, that is no comfort to those players who now have to retrain their characters to earn isk in other ways.

What is lacking is risk.
Those high sp, wealthy characters should not be allowed to roam through safe space, amassing all the wealth which is available, to the detriment of younger, less wealthy players.

Freighters, as I understood it, were meant to help with the logistics of POS, capital ship construction, and the seeding of 0.0
None of those things require access to 0.5+, and restricting that access would have avoided these problems.

Arguing the specific economics of the situation (redistribution of wealth) does nothing but obscure the fact that, at a very basic level, a majority of players got their gameplay ruined by a minority of "elite" players.

Now, I'm no carebear, and even I can see that this is wrong. Maybe I have lost my sense of reason, but better that than my sense of fair play.


Well said and signed. Freighters should be restricted to 0.4 and below.


sonofollo
Caldari
Doomheim
Posted - 2005.08.05 08:58:00 - [104]
 

SOrry disagree leave frieghters in eventually so many of them will be running around profit margins for empire haulers in freighters will drop right off. As for the newbie players well there still exist low sec trade routes with much better profit margins.

Level 1 and 2 missions are always an option to. Either that or take a lower profit margin

Palthos
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2005.08.05 09:01:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Aziza
Originally by: Avon
The problem as I see it is this:

NPC trading is a way for a lot of players of all skill levels to make an income in Eve on par with their skill and effort.
Those players have had a perfectly legitimate form of gameplay effective removed from them by high sp, wealthy characters.

This was warned about, and CCP did not listen - fine, it is their game.
However, that is no comfort to those players who now have to retrain their characters to earn isk in other ways.

What is lacking is risk.
Those high sp, wealthy characters should not be allowed to roam through safe space, amassing all the wealth which is available, to the detriment of younger, less wealthy players.

Freighters, as I understood it, were meant to help with the logistics of POS, capital ship construction, and the seeding of 0.0
None of those things require access to 0.5+, and restricting that access would have avoided these problems.

Arguing the specific economics of the situation (redistribution of wealth) does nothing but obscure the fact that, at a very basic level, a majority of players got their gameplay ruined by a minority of "elite" players.

Now, I'm no carebear, and even I can see that this is wrong. Maybe I have lost my sense of reason, but better that than my sense of fair play.


Well said and signed. Freighters should be restricted to 0.4 and below.



Hmmm, interesting idea. Make them unable to use a stargate into .5 and above space but, like Dreadnoughts, they could be built in .5+ space. The only problem I see is that a lot of players have already started producing these ships in high-sec areas under the impression that they could fly them anywhere.

Tbh I assume that the devs probably had a discussion about this and decided to allow them everywhere so I wouldn't hold my breath on seeing them restricted to .4 and below.

sonofollo
Caldari
Doomheim
Posted - 2005.08.05 09:05:00 - [106]
 

Minerals and such need to be hauled through empire - my guess is the carebears are complaining cause the profits are going - get into low sec or take up manufacturing missions in empire which also allow to haul stuff around at a reasonable profit

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2005.08.05 09:05:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: sonofollo
SOrry disagree leave frieghters in eventually so many of them will be running around profit margins for empire haulers in freighters will drop right off. As for the newbie players well there still exist low sec trade routes with much better profit margins.

Level 1 and 2 missions are always an option to. Either that or take a lower profit margin


Sorry, let me get this straight...

New players should have to go and earn a living in low sec space, whilst vets earn theirs in safe space?
Does that not seem a little twisted to you?

sonofollo
Caldari
Doomheim
Posted - 2005.08.05 09:07:00 - [108]
 

what im saying avon is profit margins for both new and older players are better in low sec sure u lose the odd hauler but tbh u more than make up for it in profits.

NPC trading is a valid part of gameplay but freighters shuold be allowed everywhere as well.

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2005.08.05 09:09:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: sonofollo
Minerals and such need to be hauled through empire - my guess is the carebears are complaining cause the profits are going - get into low sec or take up manufacturing missions in empire which also allow to haul stuff around at a reasonable profit


And as the low cost mierals are injected into the high cost areas the price becomes deflated.
Miners make less profit for fear of being undercut by massive imports of cheap minerals.
Miners can't mine faster, and so have to live with a reduced income?

We need more regionalisation, not the massive homogenisation that this level of bulk transport will introduce.

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2005.08.05 09:11:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: sonofollo
what im saying avon is profit margins for both new and older players are better in low sec sure u lose the odd hauler but tbh u more than make up for it in profits.

NPC trading is a valid part of gameplay but freighters shuold be allowed everywhere as well.


I disagree.
Why should they be allowed everywhere? Because there are things to move?
There are things to shoot everywhere, why not let dreads in to safe space?

What's that?

They'd be totally unbalancing?


Exactly.

sonofollo
Caldari
Doomheim
Posted - 2005.08.05 09:16:00 - [111]
 

frieghers are large industrials - dreads are POS destoryers.

Dreads are in 0.0 and low sec because they blow up player owned stations - outposts etc seige weapons

Freighters are large industrial ships for more efficent movement of all goods mienrals etc.

What about alliances wanting to move smaller ships - hauler mining barges out to 0.0 in their freighters a lot of the time they have to buy ships in empire.

Or haul through empire to get from low sec to low sec.

THere are more risky ill admit but more profitable ways to use a hauler than NPC goods trading in high sec.

Some of those careberas are going to have to learn to play eve proplery and at least move around or get into low sec or NPC 0.0 regions where profits are more.

Ok so those players making all this ISK what are they going to do with it - by other stuff esp of newbie players ie minerals forcing up mineral prices good for newbies to get their stuff quicker.

sonofollo
Caldari
Doomheim
Posted - 2005.08.05 09:17:00 - [112]
 

sorry avon its not unbalancing if that was the case they would have 400-500k m3 cargo slots which they dont have.

Palthos
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2005.08.05 09:18:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: sonofollo
what im saying avon is profit margins for both new and older players are better in low sec sure u lose the odd hauler but tbh u more than make up for it in profits.



And you're right for normal trading. If 1 trade route in .5+ gets a newer player 6m and one through .4 or so get's them 8m, for someone with very little isk that is enough.

This does not work with freighters though. If 1 route earns them 600m while the other might earn them 800m why should they risk their 1b+ freighter for 200m isk? Especially after seeing the hostility towards them in this thread they'd be crazy to risk their freighter.

You're then left with the noobs having to go into .4 space and lower to make a good living while the vets sit comfortably in .5+ space.

UglyBugly
Posted - 2005.08.05 09:20:00 - [114]
 

The ones saying that this will hurt newbie traders have clearly no idea or overview over the market.

There are several routes and goods that will garner the not so wealthy pilot a decent return on his isk - that the freighter pilot would never touch due to volume issues and/or system sec status.

The routes people talk about here could never be touched and SHOULD never be touched by a newbie, as the investment would be to great compared to return. There are low isk routes out there giving WAY better return.

BTW:
Market data for the Roes show a doubling of the volume handled over the last week. (Granted, market data is still not that trustworthy, but it should be comparable)
That will hardly ruin eves economy.

Olivin
Gallente
Aquarium
Posted - 2005.08.05 09:22:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: Kerby Lane

Basiacally there are T1 and T2 cruisers. t2 are not produced in every region and still have repackaged size of 10000m3.
Battleships could be produced everythere but they are usually sold in secure space and you need freighter to transport them in bulk.

So to satisfy the demand for cruisers (t2 in this case) in different region industrials are a bit small. To move battleships to 0.0 industrals are a bit small too. Option to contract empire freighters is irrelevant because there is no such service widely available in timely fashion.



Basically CCP nerfed highways and established NWO in order to promote regional markets development. CCP also implemented outposts and sovereignty in order to develop 0.0. For this purpose, CCP introduced capital ships. Freighters to help supply POS, build outposts and improve 0.0 logistics and dreads to destroy POS and freighters. Dreads are not allowed above 0.4. POS are not allowed above 0.4. Outposts are not allowed above 0.4. See the pattern? Freighters should not be allowed above 0.4.

You claim, that freighters needed above 0.5 to develop regional markets in secure space and more specifically to move ships. I disagree, because in order to develop regional markets, industrial hubs should be established, where by industrial hubs I mean a lot of manufacturers producing various products and competing with each other. To establish such hubs you must provide an equal opportunity to everybody. Freighters are restricting manufacturing, trade and hauling to the elite/veteran/high sp players with billions of isk at their disposal. And you don't need to import ships, you need to attract manufactures and produce this ships locally, which will support local ecosystem: miners, small haulers, mission runners, small traders, equipment manufacturers and so on.

Freighters allow to ignore NWO and import tremendous amount of goods to the regional/remote markets which effectively destroy any chance for new/smaller manufactures/traders/haulers. This is wrong.

Freighters allow to farm NPC trade routes and make huge amount of isk in absolute safety, meanwhile destroying said trade routes for smaller players. This is wrong.

Freighters in secure Empire space are overpowered. Iteron mark V: 5 X Local Hull = 60 m/s and capacity ~ 14220 m3 ( I think it's about right) VS Obelisk 65 m/sec and capacity 750000 m3. I am not taking any skills on account, just base values to show that balance between speed vs capacity is simply not there. And if we will take instas on account it safe to assume that regular indy will not do it much faster than a freighter. Secure space without highways, means longer routes, means capacity always win over speed/agility. So long for "faster and more efficient" indy. This is wrong.

Olivin


sonofollo
Caldari
Doomheim
Posted - 2005.08.05 09:22:00 - [116]
 

a hint try hydrogen batteries or synthetic oils or polytextiles and quafe in aridia region just as an example good profits

Rick Dentill
BURN EDEN
Posted - 2005.08.05 09:22:00 - [117]
 

You have got to remember that sure a freighter has the potential to make huge profit from lucrative trade runs. However a person has to train a lot of skills and earn alot of money to be in a position to begin doing it. Conversely the small time trader can travel faster and can still carry i fair amount of items. there is a good chance that you can get in on the trade before the freighter gets there, maybe even lower the price a bit.

sonofollo
Caldari
Doomheim
Posted - 2005.08.05 09:24:00 - [118]
 

i agree with ricks last point freighters are slower so there is a balance plus the skills and ISK needed to get it off the gorund these guys have been playing eve for up to and over 1-2 years so give em a break they buy youre stuff as well.

Palthos
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2005.08.05 09:26:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: UglyBugly
The ones saying that this will hurt newbie traders have clearly no idea or overview over the market.

There are several routes and goods that will garner the not so wealthy pilot a decent return on his isk - that the freighter pilot would never touch due to volume issues and/or system sec status.

The routes people talk about here could never be touched and SHOULD never be touched by a newbie, as the investment would be to great compared to return. There are low isk routes out there giving WAY better return.

BTW:
Market data for the Roes show a doubling of the volume handled over the last week. (Granted, market data is still not that trustworthy, but it should be comparable)
That will hardly ruin eves economy.

That is very true, but wait until all of the newer players who used to do the routes that the freighters ruined move on to the smaller ones. These will then in turn be ruined by too many traders and the newer players will be left back where they started.

Palthos
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2005.08.05 09:32:00 - [120]
 

Originally by: sonofollo
freighters are slower so there is a balance

Speed means nothing when there are instas

Originally by: sonofollo
so give em a break they buy youre stuff as well.


They do buy some newer/average players stuff (minerals and such), but they mostly buy tech 2 items made by the already wealthy (although not all tech 2 producers are wealthy and I'm not saying that they don't have a right to be rich if they indeed are).


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