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blankseplocked For those saying freighters WOULDN'T ruin the economy. You were wrong
 
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Kontraband
Posted - 2005.08.04 06:24:00 - [1]
 

Remember them people doin trade routes, guess what they are *snip*...

I just went to my usual little trade route Maut -> Villore.

Guess what a guy in a freighter bought every ****ing thing and completely ****ed the market. Not kidding. Just told me he made 650mil from it. He said he is gonna do it again as soon as market resets. Exploit or just CCP's lack of thinking things through.

partial masking of profanity is a violation of the forum rules - Sherkaner

Deja Thoris
Invicta.
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2005.08.04 06:37:00 - [2]
 

Yes buying low and selling high is an exploit.

It is poorly thought out though. I thought prices dropped after decent quantities were bought / sold.

Kontraband
Posted - 2005.08.04 06:41:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Deja Thoris
Yes buying low and selling high is an exploit.

It is poorly thought out though. I thought prices dropped after decent quantities were bought / sold.
In maut the amount of roes bought never decreases the amount available but after a while of buying and selling it does change the prices.

Thats what I'm talkin about. Before freighters a whole fleet of haulers really wouldnt affect this price. But now 1 run of this freighter has completely screwed the market. The only person able to profit from this is now this 1 person with this freighter sitting there waiting for the price to reset so he can make anotehr 650mil.

1 person making 650mil a day while no one else can get anything from it. Seems stupid but maybe thats just me.

Olivin
Gallente
Aquarium
Posted - 2005.08.04 06:55:00 - [4]
 

What a shock!Shocked You been warned about this!

Olivin

So'Kar
SniggWaffe
FREE KARTTOON NOW
Posted - 2005.08.04 07:50:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: So''Kar on 04/08/2005 07:55:50
Should have made freighter like dreads and require jump drive. More cargo freighter have more fuel it would use per jump.

Oh and how many suicide BSes it would take to kill one of these? Suicide it at last jump to its destination and then collect loot with normal inties and hopefully get most of that "650mil" to cover bses insurance and set your competion back worth of one freighter + trade goods. Wink

MOOstradamus
Posted - 2005.08.04 07:56:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: MOOstradamus on 04/08/2005 09:25:47

Congrats \o/ Rolling Eyes

Joop
Privateers
Privateer Alliance
Posted - 2005.08.04 07:57:00 - [7]
 

Adept Smile

After each patch the game changes .. so adept to these changes or quit. Posts like this one solve nothing.

Sorry i dont want to sound like a complete a** but this is simply the way of the game.

UglyBugly
Posted - 2005.08.04 08:04:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: UglyBugly on 04/08/2005 08:21:14
If he has the money to flatten the marketbefore he moves, then he had the money to do it before also.
That part the freighter didn't change. So if he does it now and not before he must have been quite daft.

The only thing is that he can move the whole lot in one trip now. That much I grant. Giving him time to hit other markets or do other stuff.

But the economic outcome for him and you should still be the same.

And remember: He's doing the trade route too. And he is apparently not ****ed. He is just better than you. And here I am talking about the char - not the player.



Vilserx
Posted - 2005.08.04 08:46:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Joop
Adept Smile

After each patch the game changes .. so adept to these changes or quit. Posts like this one solve nothing.

Sorry i dont want to sound like a complete a** but this is simply the way of the game.



Adapt? How do you stop a guy in a freighter breaking the economy?

Sit at every possible trade route in a big fleet and take it down? It's not feasible imo.

Jiggy
Minmatar
Posted - 2005.08.04 09:03:00 - [10]
 

Get yourself your own freighter, problem solved.

Sherkaner


Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2005.08.04 09:08:00 - [11]
 

Please keep the discussion civil and on-topic ugh

Trooper B99
Caldari
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2005.08.04 09:18:00 - [12]
 

Hmph, will be intersting to see how the trade routes go. The most profitables will be eaten up fast to get return on the ship payouts i think. I remember hearing they were tweaking the trade routes beczuse of frighters, but this sounds like a missed one.

There are afew ways you could handle the situation as you know who he is, not least paying someone to declare on him and his corp and blowing the freighter out of the sky.

Problem solved.

Either that or he won't undock his freighter.

Problem solved for a while.

Discorporation
Amarr
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.08.04 09:23:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Vilserx


Adapt? How do you stop a guy in a freighter breaking the economy?

Sit at every possible trade route in a big fleet and take it down? It's not feasible imo.


Wardec

*grin*

unless he's in an NPC corp, in which case good on him for getting Freighter :)

UglyBugly
Posted - 2005.08.04 09:32:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: UglyBugly on 04/08/2005 09:32:23
Again: If he can buy every damn thing - then he can do that with or without a freighter.

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2005.08.04 09:37:00 - [15]
 

Ah well, roll on the ships which can mine an entire belt in one cycle.
Then we can tell all the miners to adapt too.

Rolling Eyes

Kin Hanyerec
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.08.04 09:46:00 - [16]
 

in fact freighters aren't ruining the economy... they are making it run faster and better without you (for low end goods that's it)ugh

try high value goods where having a freighter doesn't mean anything.





UglyBugly
Posted - 2005.08.04 09:53:00 - [17]
 

Lets get back to topic:

I will not disagree that freighters will be a bonus for traders. I just think the impact is being exagerated a bit. I think. I am not sure.
So to establish some common ground:

Will the OP and supporters agree that in general the freighter owners ability to flatten the sellers market has not so much to do with his ownership of a freighter? But rather the size of his wallet?
I acknowledge that it can be done faster if he has to take fewer trips.
But if he can buy everything as stated by the OP - then the freighter has nothing to do with it?

Richard Stryker
Doomheim
Posted - 2005.08.04 09:54:00 - [18]
 

Oh no, some one with more resources managed to use the tools provided to out smart me, and because this person has beaten me on a trade route the economy of eve is totally destroyed. Instead of figuring out how to beat them, or find a new route, i'm here whining about it...

ccp really should bring in some npc cookies or cheese for people to buy when they are beat. Adapt

TIO 101
Posted - 2005.08.04 09:54:00 - [19]
 

how many suicide kessy's would it take to kill a freighter >:]

Kerby Lane
ZER0.
IT Alliance
Posted - 2005.08.04 09:57:00 - [20]
 

Are NPC goods economy of EVE ?
Prove me wrong but I always thought that player made economy is the true EVE economy ?
Freighters in empuire are very good for player made economy.

sonofollo
Caldari
Doomheim
Posted - 2005.08.04 10:09:00 - [21]
 

all i can say is we need more of it - if volumes rise and the amount of trades - CCP might actually look at expanding improving adding new features etc to the NPC trade goods aspect of the game. Ive called for this for a long time - well u might have to find other routes get into low sec. Do manufacturing missions for level 3-4 agents

If more players get into NPC trading CCP might look at making additions to it making the economy more dynamic - this fellow is going to be selling small amounts for quite some tiem. Or profit margins will drop to nothing - as long as the volumes sky rocket let him go at it - we need more of it.

If you want more aspects to NPC trading you gotta boost voulmes - its the only way the devs will look at a aspect of the game.

UglyBugly
Posted - 2005.08.04 10:22:00 - [22]
 

The NPC goods are of course a part of the economy.

They are one of the true isk generators. That is: Generating new isk - not just passing isk around.

And if one player can bring in obscene amounts of isk every day, imagine what him and his equals could bring of isk into the game. Generating inflation - just like the lvl4 missions were accused of doing.

Only difference is that the market of NPC goods have a limit to the isk that can be pressed out of it on a daily basis, due to flattening prices.
That and the fact that I think the freighters ability to generate isk for the trader several times faster than before is overrated, is why I don't think the economy will hurt much from this.


sonofollo
Caldari
Doomheim
Posted - 2005.08.04 10:25:00 - [23]
 

well there are limited and rigid impacts on the market CCP have done basic supply and demand coding - but more would be helpful - more goods more routes more stations.

Dont forget the price of these things is high as well. Sure some will make ISK but they might just turn around and re spend said ISK on BS etc.

Still it might make small traders take a reduced profit and make it less attractive but traders can also slow down the rate at which these freighters can offload NPC goods by trading the same routes and locking down prices - take a smaller profit but boost volumes and the devs might have a look at NPC trading goods at some point.

Olivin
Gallente
Aquarium
Posted - 2005.08.04 10:26:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Kerby Lane
Freighters in empuire are very good for player made economy.


Yes, freighters are very good for the centralized market powered by oligarchy of veteran/power players.

No, freighters are very bad for the diverse and competitive market powered by all types of players.


Olivin

So'Kar
SniggWaffe
FREE KARTTOON NOW
Posted - 2005.08.04 10:27:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: So'Kar
Oh and how many suicide BSes it would take to kill one of these? Suicide it at last jump to its destination and then collect loot with normal inties and hopefully get most of that "650mil" to cover bses insurance and set your competion back worth of one freighter + trade goods. Wink

Small correction to my post. You could make lot more, if that 650mil was profit he was making. You could get trade goods value + that profit. Shocked

Anyone tested how much damage torps do against freighters, since these sig radius is about 3 times bigger than normal BS?

Fred0
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2005.08.04 10:27:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Fred0 on 04/08/2005 10:29:06
It seems the supply and demand model needs some adjusting to factor in the freighters. This has the potential to be big and I've seen another MMORPG go down more or less excactly because of this.

sonofollo
Caldari
Doomheim
Posted - 2005.08.04 10:39:00 - [27]
 

Its going to affect the empire market ie high sec a great deal but less carebears are going to risk it in low sec - so CCP might make minor changes - enhancements etc. But overall if new players want higher profits push out into low sec regions there is a healthy trading market esp in syndicate where 60% per run can be had over 4 jumps (cloakers can be useful with gank points and careful map watching)

Frieghters could be used out there but the risks also go up so a smaller trader would make more in 1 run than 7 runs in empire with a 5% profit margin.

So im guessing the ones that dont like it would be hauling across high sec secure space instead of low sec.

Some enhancements and tweaks need making but more players need to get into low sec ive been hauling around making 5-8M an hour with a iteron 3 and 4. Sure i loose the odd ship but even with 1 ship loss a day and basic AB and cargo expanders i can make 30-40M with say 2M for ship loss - without implants its still good ISK for a newbie but u need to get into the quite low sec areas. Aridia is one , up around calderi and lower syndicate space.

Its there u just need to dig.

Maggot
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2005.08.04 10:49:00 - [28]
 

I have not traded for over a year. Does the market still re-seed at downtime or randomly throughout the day?

If it is the former then I agree this is a problem, but if it is the latter then there are many options
open to those who don't have freighters. In fact I would say that making money for those without freighters has just become easier, but I am not going to spell it out for you.

sonofollo
Caldari
Doomheim
Posted - 2005.08.04 10:53:00 - [29]
 

the market reacts to volumes sold - and brought - its fairly rigid - once u take the quick ISK routes 2-3 jumps you might have to move to 4-5 jumps

Of course trading between regions is also profitable sure u cant see the market but its a little secret.

Freighters wont be in low sec for quite some time as the ycarebears wont want to risk them - but for those willing to risk the industrials which are cheap btw use minimal implants if any at all

Low sec has a 30-40% profit route on some of the better routes

Try syndicate - delve - the forge anywhere with NPC stations in 0.0 and profit margins can go up to 60-100%

Yet instead of calling for freighter nerfs adapt and get out of the core systems

Yyrkoon
Genco
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2005.08.04 10:54:00 - [30]
 

markets have a limited number of items available. to get the best price on bulk goods you have to "skim" each seller to maintain your profit margins.

buyers have limited "wallets" meaning they wont pay top dollar for bulk goods. so you are forced to "skim" that market as well to retain profit margins

given the lightning fast speed of the freighter and the instant align capability that rivals a shuttle full of lead. the time to "skim" both sides of the market is actually slow. sure 900,000m3 of cargo or so (cost 1.5 billion)

go buy yourself an occator. 32,000m3 of cargo. fast.. manouverable. CHEAP!. you could skim both sides of the market one station at a time and make more isk per minute while the freighter pilot waits 5 minutes to dock.

A heavier market penalty that carries over downtimes might solve this. however slam it to hard and t2 ships will increase in price as POS owners find themselves paying more for fuel.

also. the prudent trader places BUY and SELL orders for his desired ammounts in the locations. a lot faster than docking and buying each time.

please engage brain before mouth when flaming


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