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Fester Addams
Minmatar
Posted - 2005.07.14 17:20:00 - [1]
 

Just did a little calculation and came to the conclution that the Moros dread is going to be the future ultra miner.

A covetor using 3 strip miners and 10 harvesters pulls in about 2520 ore in 3 minutes (not counting any mining skills) the Moros flying 3 miner II's and 30 harvesters (lev 4 dread skill) will with the same skillsand the same time pull in 3240 ore.

Has this issue been considered by CCP or will we see another capital ship alteration?

Unlike the covetor I would also expect the Moros to be able to take care of belt rats even in 0.0 on its own as 30 harvesters only take upp 300m3 of its 1000m3 drone bay, the remaining 700m3 could easilly fit a suitable combo of heavy, medium and scout drones to take out spawning rats.

Any opinions :)

Deja Thoris
Invicta.
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2005.07.14 17:22:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Deja Thoris on 14/07/2005 17:23:21
Now work out a payback period which is how investments are considered...

Don't forget to incluse skill prices.


Edit - Add to this every player in EVE with any self respect will team up to kill this abominationVery Happy

Dionysus Davinci
The Scope
Posted - 2005.07.14 17:28:00 - [3]
 

It'll be an awfully expensive SP and isk investment to mine veld in empire and then can't move it anywhere because you built in a .8 system.

Ha, If I saw that. I hope a big corp would catch on and strip all the fields.

MooKids
Caldari
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2005.07.14 17:29:00 - [4]
 

Then I would laugh for days as someone came and destroyed your precious mining Moros.

Fester Addams
Minmatar
Posted - 2005.07.14 17:30:00 - [5]
 

Ahh, but that isnt the point is it.

None of the other dreads can come even close to this and the moros can still be used for other more... normal uses.

I dont say its wrong.
I dont say it should be changed.

Im just asking if
A: my calculations are correct?
B: the devs know about it?
C: you think its right?

Countess Amarisa
Amarr
Belt Cleaners LLC
Posted - 2005.07.14 17:43:00 - [6]
 

Your calculation is correct, i make the same some day ago. dont forget the gallent one can have 35 harvester and 3 mining laser t2. The ultimated mining machine lol, if you can affort it for tackling some roid......Shocked

Sykosys
Minmatar
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2005.07.14 17:46:00 - [7]
 

Isn't this a little to early to tell??

And don't forget Dreads are only allowed in .4 and lower. Which means if its caught in a belt it can be taken down without concord intervention.

And if a Corp has one why not use it for all its worth. A dread won't always be killing everything.....But then again they aren't even out.

I wouldn't worry



SYKOSYS

Trepkos
The Royal Syndicate
Posted - 2005.07.14 17:55:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Sykosys
Isn't this a little to early to tell??

And don't forget Dreads are only allowed in .4 and lower. Which means if its caught in a belt it can be taken down without concord intervention.

And if a Corp has one why not use it for all its worth. A dread won't always be killing everything.....But then again they aren't even out.

I wouldn't worry



SYKOSYS


You just had to tell him that. Sad



Dionysus Davinci
The Scope
Posted - 2005.07.14 18:16:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Fester Addams
Ahh, but that isnt the point is it.

None of the other dreads can come even close to this and the moros can still be used for other more... normal uses.


Is it fair that a Raven can't mine as well as the apoc or mega?

Fester Addams
Minmatar
Posted - 2005.07.14 18:27:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Trepkos
You just had to tell him that. Sad


Well firstly Im a minmatar pilot, I cant even fly a tier 1 galente frigg.

Besides you can aparently get a dread into a 0.5 or above system... by building it there, you just cant jump back to the safe system once you have left.

For me its a pure theoretical problem as despite the fact that I could probably afford a dread I doubt I will get one anytime soon.

Sykosys
Minmatar
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2005.07.14 18:33:00 - [11]
 

Shouldn't we all wait till they are actually in space before we bring up ideas that without actually flying the ship we basically have no clue on how exactly its going to work??

Hell freighters already got a nerf and aren't even out.


SYKOSYS

bignuttz
Posted - 2005.07.14 19:46:00 - [12]
 

What about adding a 3 Modulated Deep Core Miners with T2 Cystals? Wouldn't taht be even more grand? :)

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2005.07.14 20:09:00 - [13]
 

I'm actually more worried about it having 25 more drones than any of the other Dreadnoughts for no apparent reason. Hi, WTB Amarr Dread with 5 turrets, as long as we're emphasizing racial strengths.

F'nog
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2005.07.14 20:45:00 - [14]
 

I think the extra drones are fine. They are, after all, the Gallentes' strength. However, I think the drone bay should be reduced by about half, maybe a tad less. Being able to field 40 heavy drones is just completely unbalanced when the rest of the Dreads have the same number of weapon slots and 1/4 of the drones. I don't see anything wrong with it carrying 40 medium or light drones, but 40 heavies is insane.

At least other drone ships like the Dom don't have as many turrets as their BS counterparts, so their firepower is in line with the other ships who have the extra turrets and launchers. But this thing has both pros and no cons. I'd hate to see a universe of only Moroi and no other Dreads.

Sveldt
Posted - 2005.07.14 21:15:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Sveldt on 14/07/2005 21:19:13
Not that I don't trust two of you, but could someone actually post the math here? Working w/ the item database and my afk knowledge of skills, the moros comes up equaling about 1/2 of the mining power of a covetor... namely 1593.75m3 assuming perfect skills w/ 35 harvies.

Fester Addams
Minmatar
Posted - 2005.07.14 21:32:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Sveldt
Edited by: Sveldt on 14/07/2005 21:19:13
Not that I don't trust two of you, but could someone actually post the math here? Working w/ the item database and my afk knowledge of skills, the moros comes up equaling about 1/2 of the mining power of a covetor... namely 1593.75m3 assuming perfect skills w/ 35 harvies.


The Moros has 3 turrsts and can launch 30 drones at skill lev 5, this must be multiplied by 3 to be compared with the covertor as the stripminer works on 3 min cycles.
thus Moros
3x60x3(miners)+ 30x30x3(harvies)=3240 units of ore.

Vs Covetor
3x540(stripminers)+ 10x30x3(harvies, 3 min again)=2520

thus 3240 ore for the moros with no mining skills in effect and 2520 or for the covetor.

While it is true that the skills will have an impact I have not yet bothered finding out what exactly that impact is, I doubt it will meen more than the 720 ore/3 min difference this simple calculation gave.

Ayms
Obsidian Asylum
Pure.
Posted - 2005.07.14 21:38:00 - [17]
 

You have to remember waste, harvies would not operate a peak on good ore, and you have to account for flight time between their cycles.

slothe
Caldari
Jian Products Engineering Group
Atlas.
Posted - 2005.07.14 21:39:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: slothe on 14/07/2005 21:39:19
bleh

Sveldt
Posted - 2005.07.14 21:48:00 - [19]
 

Okay... I just took another look. You're right, Moros beats out a Covetor by just over 750m3 every 3 minutes. Thx for humoring me =D

Nikolai Nuvolari
Caldari
Gilead's Bullet
Posted - 2005.07.14 22:03:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Ayms
You have to remember waste, harvies would not operate a peak on good ore, and you have to account for flight time between their cycles.
If the ship just moves up next to the 'roid, flight time can be reduced to essentially nil...and, for the sake of argument, you COULD be using this on low end ore, there's still lots of veldspar around even if you're not in high-sec space.

However, the thing I'M wondering about is how much the cost of using the jump drive (fuel is expensive, isn't it?) will cut into the profits. This, of course, depends on how long you mine for, I guess. If you mine for 8 hours at a time, it should be negligible, but it would certainly make it way less profitable to go and mine for 20 minutes.

Majin Buu
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2005.07.14 22:16:00 - [21]
 

hmmm... mining in empire with 30 harvies and you CTD....5 mins later you log back in and find all your harvies gone Rolling Eyes.


On another note who on earth is going to use a dread to mine????, common FA the race is on for the first mining alliance to do this Embarassed

Scarcus
Caldari
Stain of Mind
Posted - 2005.07.14 22:17:00 - [22]
 

If you use the harvies, be prepared to lose some to rats and possibly other pilots. You simply can not get them back fast enough when rats appear close by. The rats target them first. Losing 6.6-8M isk drones hurts a bit.Confused

Gungankllr
Caldari
Hard Rock Mining Co.
Territorial Claim Unit
Posted - 2005.07.15 03:45:00 - [23]
 

Jeeza, complainers already? Shocked

If someone wants to turn their Dreadnought into a rolling taco cart, by all means. after all, they went through hell to get it in the first place...


Sadist
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2005.07.15 03:49:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Deja Thoris
Edited by: Deja Thoris on 14/07/2005 17:23:21
Now work out a payback period which is how investments are considered...

Don't forget to incluse skill prices.


Edit - Add to this every player in EVE with any self respect will team up to kill this abominationVery Happy



Couldn't have said it better myself. Except you forgot to call anyone mining in a dread an idiot Very Happy

Joe
Umbra Legion
Shadow Empire.
Posted - 2005.07.15 03:57:00 - [25]
 

Theres 2 Dreads that can fit an Ice Miner if they load all low slots with Officer Modified Co-processorsCool

Zoidberg ENB
Minmatar
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Fallen Angels Alliance
Posted - 2005.07.15 04:01:00 - [26]
 

Exactly. Who cares if they mine?
Originally by: Gungankllr
Jeeza, complainers already? Shocked

If someone wants to turn their Dreadnought into a rolling taco cart, by all means. after all, they went through hell to get it in the first place...



Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Posted - 2005.07.15 04:50:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Joe
Theres 2 Dreads that can fit an Ice Miner if they load all low slots with Officer Modified Co-processorsCool

Yeah, you're right ^^. Or a strip miner. In fact, if you managed to lay your hands on 7 Estamel's modified CPUs, the Moros can fit a Strip miner, one Miner II and 35 Harvesters. It's just under 2 CPU away from fitting a strip miner and two named Miner Is.

ErrorS
Caldari
Posted - 2005.07.15 05:08:00 - [28]
 

ill bet noone even tries mining in one of these.. i honestly don't think it's an issue

Months from now if half the game has these dreads and they're all mining with them, then it might be an issue. lets just wait and see :p

DMAN666vic
Posted - 2005.07.15 06:25:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: DMAN666vic on 15/07/2005 06:27:08
First of all,

Quote:
If someone wants to turn their Dreadnought into a rolling taco cart, by all means. after all, they went through hell to get it in the first place...


LOL!!

Now,

Quote:
Now work out a payback period which is how investments are considered...

Don't forget to incluse skill prices.


Well I was curious. Here are the calculations for assembling, buying the skills and payback time for the Moros dread while only mining Pyroxers.

Mining amounts:

I'll asume everyone is ok with the dread being able to roughly mine 3240m3 per 3 minutes.

How fast can the dread fill a can:

27500m3 jet can size / 3240m3 units mined every 3 min.
= 8(approx)
8* 3min intervals = 24min. to fill a jet can.

I will round of the the jet can fill time 30min. to account for rat killing, moving to different part of the roid belt and, of course, jerks taking the occasional pot shat at you.

Mining time per week:

Assuming you'll be mining 10 hours on Sat and Sun and 3 hours Mon to Fri, that'll give you 35 mining hours a week (full time job).

How many jet cans mined a week:

35 hours * 2 cans per hour (1 every 30 minutes) = 70 jet cans a week.

Pyro breakdown:

Through personal experience for 1 can of Pyro I can get approx 264 refines (put calculations here if you wish). These calculations are assuming no refining or astrogeology skills.

Trit 633*264 refines = 167112 per can
Pyer 44*264 refines = 11616 per can
Mex 90*264 refines = 123760 per can
Noc 8*264 refines = 2112 per can

Per can market value:

Trit 167112*3.00 Isk = 501336 Isk
Pyer 11616*6.50 Isk = 75504 Isk
Mex 123760*18.00 Isk= 427680 Isk
Noc 2112*385.00 Isk = 813120 Isk

When the sums are totaled you get 1,817,640 Isk per jet can.

Isk per week:

Mining 70 jet cans a week * 1817640 Isk per can
= 127,234,800 Isk per week from mining pyro.

Cost of ship and skills:

BPO = 1712073941
Advanced Space Ship Command = 45022293
Capital Ships = 360195596
Gallente Dread skill = 90048906
Material Cost = 3000000000 (this is an approxamation from the guys in the help channel, to build dread without fiittings)

Ship Building Cost = 5,207,340,735.00 Isk

Finally. How long does it take for the Moros to repay itself mining Pyro 35 hours a week?:

Cost of ship 5,207,340,735.00 Isk
/ 127,234,800.00 Isk Weekly mining proceeds

= 41 weeks

Check my calculations ... I'm sure they are correct... alas I am only Amarrian though:)

Triscuit
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2005.07.15 06:33:00 - [30]
 

I think I'd be more afraid of the lag all those drones buzzing around onscreeen would create rather than their damage output. Although it would be a lot of damage. :0


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