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Yith Solarius
Posted - 2005.06.14 22:41:00 - [1]

Moved from EVE General Discussion to Features and Ideas Discussion - Jacques Archambault

There have been quite a lot of people talking about empire ganking etc... and instead of complaining Iíve tried to take a proactive approach and design a new set of logic for the concord npcís to follow.

There will no doubt be holes and big loopholes to exploit here but Iím hoping people will spot these in the thread and devise fixes and by the end we will have a nice working logic set that everyone likes.

Ok, here goes:

Player A attacks player B:
>A flagged as criminal (15min concord + sentry kos)

Player A attacks player B in gang X:
>A flagged as criminal (15min concord + sentry kos)
> gang X flagged as Bís defenders (may attack A will cause concord to break up the fight by scrambling and jamming any aggressing X players but not killing)

Player A in gang Z attacks player B in gang X:
>A flagged as criminal (15min concord + sentry kos)
>X flagged as Bís defenders (may attack A and any member of Z will cause concord to break up the fight by scrambling and Jamming any aggressing players but not killing)
>If gang X or player B attacks player A or gang Z, Z may respond, basically now any member of either gang can shoot at each other, however any aggressing members will be scrambled and jammed)

This means that a small gang fight can quickly spread into a full-scale brawl as what would normally happen, but rather that nuking the whole area like they normally do, concord would do the equivalent of restraining any aggressing party until everyone has cooled down.

Once the last shot has fired concord will wait 30sec then release all held players

Yith Solarius
Posted - 2005.06.14 22:42:00 - [2]

Ok heres where some new features come into play, any member who was held by concord and released now gains a dangerous flag for the next 30mins, they donít get another chance if another gang fight breaks out again like last time concord will not hold any players with a dangerous flag Ė they get nuked, theyíve had there warning if they chose to ignore it thatís there fault.

Another new part, if a player gains more than 4 dangerous flags in 1 day he gets a ďpublic menaceĒ flag, not only for his character but all his alts, this lasts for 3 days. Any character with a ďpublic menaceĒ flag gains a concord trail whenever he travels in 0.8 to 1.0 space. This is purely designed for players who use gank alts in high sec empire there tactics will still work fine in 0.7 to 0.4 but in high sec a concord bs parked permanently up there a** will make that suicide kessie useless.

The final part I donít have a total solution too, maybe you can help me out here and its trying to prevent ore thieving, by allowing players to petition concord and if there are enough hits over a set time the person gets a thief flag. If he was caught stealing and had a thief flag you could open fire on him, concord immediately warps to you and jams but you donít get a dangerous flag. If you are in a gang the whole gang may shoot the thief and will also get jammed but no dangerous flag and if the thief is in a gang his gang may retaliate they get jammed too but will get a dangerous flag. This would work in theory but atm its too easy to exploit

Please note all flags will be displayed in the overview next to the ships there not hidden to only concord, so all players can see what there dealing with.

Ok. There you go, please feel free to comment if you see a loophole or possible exploit write it down and Iíll try to redo the logic set with the changes in it.

Joshua Foiritain
Coreli Corporation
Posted - 2005.06.14 23:28:00 - [3]

Id like to see CONCORD target Jam, Web and Scramble Bad people who damage other people (But do not kill them)
They should keep you locked down for 30 minutes and possibly fine you as well. After that theyll let you go.

Players who do kill someone will simply be CONCORDOKEND.

Posted - 2005.06.14 23:31:00 - [4]

How about a mining can.

When you jettison ore from your cargo you are given the option of putting the ore in a mining can. It's half the size of a jettison can but is flagged so that it's useable by gang/corp members. If you're not in the gang and you take stuff you get 15 minutes of criminal flagging.

Have the can work in the same way as a jet can, it expires after x amount of time etc etc. Obviously it can only hold ore.

Nice ideas.

Posted - 2005.06.18 20:08:00 - [5]

Nice idea. I remember when I used to mine in high sec.... ore theives are a constant menace, and there is nothing you can do, cos they never go into 0.4, cowards. Sounds like a nice way to redress the balance.

Crimson Squall
Posted - 2005.06.19 15:05:00 - [6]

Edited by: SpaceCleaver on 19/06/2005 15:05:24
OMG!!!!!!!! I LIKE IT!! This would make empire so much more fun!
And the mining can. Even better.

Yith Solarius
Posted - 2005.06.19 15:21:00 - [7]

Thank you everyone for the nice feedback, I like the mining can but one thing I would suggest is how the thief flag would work around the can.

With the mining can unless a player in a corp/gang member and removes anything from the can he get the thief flag and you can open fire, as soon as the agression is spotted however concord will swoop into the area and jam any agressing ships, this is designed to give players a small defence to keep thief's away not an open invitation to brawl in a 1.0 system, remember that engaging a thief doesn't give you a dangerous flag.

However to keep this option as unexploitable as possible I think 2 safty features should be added 1) you recieve a pop-up memo saying you will be given the thief flag if you try to take from a can so people are properly informend, 2) the thief flag is only valid for a set radius around any mining can

otherwise you can see what will happen as an empire greafer tricks a nOOb into taking a "free gift" from a mining can then spends the next 30 mins mercilesly hounding him round the system as he can attack without any real risks

Blind Fear
Posted - 2005.06.19 15:51:00 - [8]

So all I have to do to get easy empire kills is gang with 5 non-war battleships and have them gank the **** out of any war targets that attack me?

No thanks.

Yith Solarius
Posted - 2005.06.19 16:46:00 - [9]

Originally by: Blind Fear
So all I have to do to get easy empire kills is gang with 5 non-war battleships and have them gank the **** out of any war targets that attack me?

No thanks.

But that would happen normally wouldn't it, If you are at war with another corp and you gang with neutrals they too become war targets - thats been in the game mechanics for ages, it even tells you that if you try to invite them to the gang!

Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2005.06.26 11:28:00 - [10]

Edited by: Kilostream on 26/06/2005 11:28:53
Hmm, the aggression thing is interesting, I'm trying to work various scenarios over in my head to see how that could work....

As for the mining thing, there's already a solution in place to prevent ore-thieves - secure can, and give p/word to your gang mates - hey presto, no ore-thievery!!

Personally I used to jetcan mine in empire a lot, and didn't have much problems with ore thieves, I could mine so fast I'd hardly notice what they were taking anyway, and it was worth the risk just to be able to get 27500m3 ore in one place for easy hauling.

You pays yer money, you takes yer choice!

Easy now,


Deja Thoris
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2005.06.26 11:38:00 - [11]

Edited by: Deja Thoris on 26/06/2005 11:37:49
Empire ganking and ore theft arent "problems" according to CCP.

Implementing a "solution" to a "problem" that doesn't exist is pointless. Theres already commonsense ideas aplenty to prevent empire ganking and ore theft.

Why do we need gamecode to replace commonsense?

Yith Solarius
Posted - 2005.07.13 00:08:00 - [12]

please remember this isn't only about ore thiefes, I do see and understand everyones different opinions about ore theft, and proposed a modification of the concort actions around this situation, personally I don't want to totally remove ore theft I think it makes high sec interesting and gives people in local something to talk about all i'm offering is a small method for people to retaliate because atm the only fix is sec cans which are rubish, tiny and i see people who scoop them in high sec anyway just to **** you off Sad

Apart from the mining cans what do people think of the other logic fixes for gate fighting and general brawlingQuestion

Avib VOV
Posted - 2005.08.29 16:43:00 - [13]

Edited by: Phyo on 29/08/2005 16:43:47

Avib VOV
Posted - 2005.08.29 16:44:00 - [14]

I was once told, running away from concord is an exploit.
Happened to me once, will never do it again.

It was more like in the heat of battle, I forgot I chased the scumbag from 0.0 into 0.5, followed to a moon, scrambled him and found myself running for the next 30 minutes to get away from concord. Ended up in 0.0 with sweaty hands.

Civ Zomas
Jazz Associates
Posted - 2005.08.29 17:39:00 - [15]

I do like the idea of proportional response; Concord's all-or-nothing response seems inadequate for a reasonable law enforcement system. There should also be clear, unambiguous and reliable indication of who you can shoot at, and who can shoot at you (for whatever reason.) The current kaleidoscope of colours and symbols in the overview is an ugly, ill-conceived mess...


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