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HippoKing
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2005.08.18 19:10:00 - [31]
 

increases lock time - makes people more likely to shoot you before you jam them, and is fatal in an ECM duel

Wolverine PL
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2005.09.14 01:48:00 - [32]
 

Does Tracking disruptors works on NPC?

Oyennor
Posted - 2005.09.20 14:09:00 - [33]
 

A few questions on EW.

First and foremost. If Ijam someone, are they jammed for everyone or just me. Similarly with target painters and weapon disruptors. Am I affecting their ability to target ME specifically, or everyone? I ask as I'm trying to put together a "back of the pack" EW machine to scramble the enemy while my mates do the shooting. Any thoughts? Until I can fly something tech 2 and funky (I'm caldari) I'm considering a Griffon.

Conram
Caldari
The X-Trading Company
Dusk and Dawn
Posted - 2005.09.20 14:26:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Conram on 20/09/2005 14:28:35
Some answers:

- Well, AFAIK and as I noticed, tracking disruptors work on NPCs, at least the battleships.

- Every frig with 4 medslots is suited for EW. Just put in an MWD and some racials. Frigs lock fast but can nearly not be counterlocked. This means, if a frig stops jamming a BS, the BS will be in serious trouble to counterlock the frigate before it activates the ECM module a second time.
Cheap, replaceable, nearly no SP required, "kills" BS - what do you want more ? Frig > BS Cool
To be serious, it is really worth considering putting 1/2 of your PVP newbies in tacklers and the other half in EW frigs.


Saavik
Posted - 2005.09.25 13:55:00 - [35]
 

I would like a more thorough explanation of the ECM formula:

1 - ( 1 - ( 4 / 10 ) ) ^ 4

Basically i wanna know what each coeficient means. It's easy to know that 10 is the ship strength, and that 4 would be either jammer strength or number of jammers used but i dont know which is which.

So what i'm asking is what does each number mean?

If anyone knows this please explain it. Thanks in advance.

Saavik
Posted - 2005.09.25 13:56:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Oyennor
A few questions on EW.

First and foremost. If Ijam someone, are they jammed for everyone or just me. Similarly with target painters and weapon disruptors. Am I affecting their ability to target ME specifically, or everyone? I ask as I'm trying to put together a "back of the pack" EW machine to scramble the enemy while my mates do the shooting. Any thoughts? Until I can fly something tech 2 and funky (I'm caldari) I'm considering a Griffon.


If you jam a enemy ship he can't target anyone, and thus is a sitting target Wink

JoCool
Caldari
Posted - 2005.09.25 14:43:00 - [37]
 

Good thread, bookmarked for the newbs :)

James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2005.09.26 08:47:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Saavik
I would like a more thorough explanation of the ECM formula:

1 - ( 1 - ( 4 / 10 ) ) ^ 4

Basically i wanna know what each coeficient means. It's easy to know that 10 is the ship strength, and that 4 would be either jammer strength or number of jammers used but i dont know which is which.

So what i'm asking is what does each number mean?

If anyone knows this please explain it. Thanks in advance.


Your basic probability of jamming is jammer strength vs. ship strength.

So as you have guessed, in the above example, 4 being the jammer and 10 being the ship strength.

That equation is for the situation where you have 4 jammers, on a single target.

To calculate jamming chance for multiple jammers, you need to calculate the chance of _not_ jamming and subtract that from 100%.

If I use 1 multispectral jammer against you:

Chance of jamming = 4/10 = 0.4 =40%

If I use 2 multispectral jammers,
Chance of jamming is _not_ 80% :).
The chance of failing to jam you with the first jam is
1 - 4/10 = 0.6 = 60%
The chance of failing with the _second_ jam is also 60%
Therefore the chance of failing both is 0.6 * 0.6 (or 0.6 ^ 2)

E.G. ( 1 - 4 / 10 ) ^ 2

Making the chance to jam, 1 - this number, e.g.
1 - ( 1 - 4 / 10 ) ^ 2

Which is where that formula comes from.

If you've different strength jammers, you can express it as:
1 - ( ( 1 - jammer1 / str ) * ( 1 - jammer2 / str ) * ( 1 - jammer3 / str ) )

And so on (the ^4 is just a contraction of ( 1 - 4/10 ) * itself 4 times).

James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2005.09.26 08:49:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Oyennor
A few questions on EW.

First and foremost. If Ijam someone, are they jammed for everyone or just me. Similarly with target painters and weapon disruptors. Am I affecting their ability to target ME specifically, or everyone? I ask as I'm trying to put together a "back of the pack" EW machine to scramble the enemy while my mates do the shooting. Any thoughts? Until I can fly something tech 2 and funky (I'm caldari) I'm considering a Griffon.


Jamming affects the target ships ability to lock - they can't lock anyone. So yes, having an EW ship benefits everyone in a gang. Or having several frigates, wach with a piece of EW each is fairly nasty. (Stacked sensor dampeners, or tracking disruptors for example)

Tinilla
Gallente
Posted - 2005.09.26 11:31:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Saavik

If you jam a enemy ship he can't target anyone, and thus is a sitting target Wink


Nice, I was always wondering what exactly jammers did when ecm bursts seemed to do the same thing.
I may actualy consider training up some EW then

Guardian Alpha
Doomheim
Posted - 2005.10.09 18:43:00 - [41]
 

Can an ECCM and ECCM projector module break a current jam? For example:

Ship A ECM jams Ship B.
Ship C activates an ECCM projector on Ship B to return his sensor strengths.

Would this break the jam on Ship A?

If not, then it seems that ECCM Projectors are limited in use since they only boost one ship, which may or may not be under danger of being Jamed.

Liadrin
Posted - 2005.10.18 07:42:00 - [42]
 

good post

James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2005.11.22 09:38:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Guardian Alpha
Can an ECCM and ECCM projector module break a current jam? For example:

Ship A ECM jams Ship B.
Ship C activates an ECCM projector on Ship B to return his sensor strengths.

Would this break the jam on Ship A?

If not, then it seems that ECCM Projectors are limited in use since they only boost one ship, which may or may not be under danger of being Jamed.


To the best of my knowledge 'jamming' can't be broken mid cycle.

However if you consider 'breaking' jamming as 'increasing the chance of failure at the next cycle' then they can do that.

It does mean the ship in question will be out of action for 20 seconds, but if you fire up an ECCM projector at it, chances are it will only be for 20 seconds.

Zazao
Posted - 2006.02.02 13:43:00 - [44]
 

Another Outfit Question: I want to make a EW Heron to play around with and learn to use EW modules with, which skills and modules should I use? Thanks...

Lev Arris
World Eaterz
Posted - 2006.02.02 15:16:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Zazao
Another Outfit Question: I want to make a EW Heron to play around with and learn to use EW modules with, which skills and modules should I use? Thanks...


Just an aside, a Griffin would be better for EW

Khjan
Posted - 2006.02.02 16:13:00 - [46]
 

Thanks for the note... (Silly as I am I like Heron better)...Very Happy

Grey Area
Caldari
Posted - 2006.03.06 15:56:00 - [47]
 

OK, so my Raven has 22 Gravimetric strength, and zero anything else. If I fit modules that give me (for example) 8 points of Ladar strength, do I have to be jammed on both channels, or am I just opening myself up to a weaker possibility for jamming on the Ladar channel?

It seems odd if I am, since it means that an 8 point strength is worse than a zero point strength!

ThisName IsTaken
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2006.04.05 18:39:00 - [48]
 

I have a question about webs, do they stack? If so, how exactly does it work? Is it possible to completely stop a ship?

Striker IV
Gallente
Grave Diggers
Fallen Souls
Posted - 2006.04.11 14:58:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Grey Area
OK, so my Raven has 22 Gravimetric strength, and zero anything else. If I fit modules that give me (for example) 8 points of Ladar strength, do I have to be jammed on both channels, or am I just opening myself up to a weaker possibility for jamming on the Ladar channel?

It seems odd if I am, since it means that an 8 point strength is worse than a zero point strength!


im hoping for some reply on this, i was getting the gist of this untill this post.. ( old ew scorp user reading bout changes..)
does it increase his chances to " punch thru jamming, because the jammer rolls 2x ( 1 for each strength ?????)

Mysti Knight
Thundercats
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2006.04.12 12:02:00 - [50]
 

Insofar as I know, (ew specialist,) your ship has a scanning type, gravimetric for example, and the jamming of grav is what determines your abillity to lock a target. Having an eccm that gives you some other form of protection, such as ladar boost of "8" is irrelevant. Your ship still requires un-jammed Grav scanning strength.

So it does not help nor hinder you to have eccm in another type of scan, regardless of what your opponent is trying to jam.

Btw, multi specs are not only cap heavy, but range challenged as a compensation for being the "fit one, fit all," solution. :) Really, only a bs can use them continuously, and only the scorp or maybe Rook can use them at long range effectively. Racials are much better if you have any idea of what you might be facing. :)

Beringe
Caldari
Mercurialis Inc.
Posted - 2006.04.18 06:38:00 - [51]
 

Question:

How does dampening affect drones targeting you? Is it like the FoF, which have their own, seemingly independent "range", or will they not come after you if you are outside the victim's range?

K'reemy G'udness
Posted - 2006.04.24 23:35:00 - [52]
 

Is all this still valid for RMR?

Amaria Amaar
Posted - 2006.04.26 13:41:00 - [53]
 

Argh, my head is gonna explode!!!!!????ughSadCrying or Very sad

Christopher Dalran
Gallente
Deadly Alliance
Posted - 2006.05.30 19:06:00 - [54]
 

As far as i can tell your ship only takes into consideration the sensor strength it uses when determining if it is jammed or not so you should fit your races type instead of another.

I prefer Projected ECCM modules on other ships, i'd rather have someone shooting a 100% strenth boost at me than having to use 50% boosts but that is not possible if your alone.

I havent had much luck with the eccm you use on yourself, its not strong enough to make all that much of a difference on being jammed (only drops their chance by 25% [ so someone with a 40% chance to jam you would now have a 30% chance]). I could be wrong but it certainly seems that way.

Oh and sticking in 1 sensor dampner instead of another ECM is MUCH better since you could possible cause them to require more time to lock than you do to get another chance at jamming them. If they lock they could have a chance at jamming you first.


Lickety
Posted - 2006.05.31 18:35:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: Lickety on 31/05/2006 18:37:24
edit: nevermind, thanks

Maldon Perriera
Posted - 2006.08.30 18:57:00 - [56]
 

is there a pdf version of this anywhere?

fejus
Posted - 2006.08.30 21:03:00 - [57]
 

So people use Battle ships moreso when doing lots of EW? I always figured that the smaller faster Frigates or Interceptors would be what you want to use for EW?

<-- nooblit :)

Vestah
Amarr
Posted - 2006.09.04 07:43:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: James Lyrus
A less known side effect is that FoF missiles only target as far as the ship's targeting range.


I tested this today with no success. I sensor dampened a friend's raven to 11km targeting range and his FoF Cruise missles would still hit me even at 30km orbit.

Iog Krugar
The Rising Stars
Cosmic Anomalies
Posted - 2006.09.28 11:41:00 - [59]
 

another loose end: do the "advanced" ecm skills (Signal Dispersal, Signal Suppression, Signal Focusing, Turret Destabilization) add to the effectiveness of the respective EW drones?

Iog Krugar
The Rising Stars
Cosmic Anomalies
Posted - 2006.09.29 12:44:00 - [60]
 

just tested this and unless the showinfo for ew drones is buggy,
the skills do not add to ew drone effectiveness.


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