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blankseplocked Perhaps we need to get rid of Armor/Structure Repairers
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Teris Kender
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2003.07.08 21:49:00 - [1]

I have always thought that the core problem with the EVE economy is there are no needs. You don't really NEED anything. I think the most isk I've ever had at any one time has been 8 million. I have a cruiser (and frigates), it's outfitted desire for a battleship. So, what do I need all this isk for? I can always make more if I want. But I don't really NEED it.

In a corp war, (or any conflict for that matter) you may actually NEED something. More ships. Or, more importantly...repairs.

We all know that (minus a warp/web thingy) that anyone can run from a fight that is going badly. And they usually run when they have got all beat up. Now at this point, most will just load out their armor/structure repairers and wait. In a few, they will be all repaired and ready to go...for free.

I know during the early days repairs were expensive. Perhaps. But what if there were no armor/structure repairers, and you had to actually PAY for repairs? Finally, something you NEED isk for.

Think about it...

Joshua Calvert
Rule One
Posted - 2003.07.08 21:50:00 - [2]

I just bought some bloody good armour/hull repairers so I'm against this idea :)

Teris Kender
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2003.07.08 21:51:00 - [3]


But think about the point...NEEDS...i.e. demand
Demand for SOMETHING...

Posted - 2003.07.08 21:52:00 - [4]

If you do your job and kill them all the way that hull repairer won't do them much good.

Joshua Calvert
Rule One
Posted - 2003.07.08 21:53:00 - [5]

The problem with the example you have given is that NOBODY benefits from letting only stations repair you. Now, letting people own stations might make your idea a lot more valid :)

Joshua Calvert
Rule One
Posted - 2003.07.08 21:54:00 - [6]

Killing people all the way is harder than it was before - plus, warp core stabilizers are so common now.

Teris Kender
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2003.07.08 21:57:00 - [7]


Yes, no one person (persons) benefits. But if isk meant something more than "what can I buy now" it would have some value.

Jash Illian
Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.
Posted - 2003.07.08 21:58:00 - [8]

What's missing is module damage affecting module performance. Modules do take damage but it doesn't affect their performance.

Hull/Armor repairers were meant to be used during battle to give you that extra staying power you need to stay alive long enough to finish the fight or escape. If module damage affected performance, people would have to dock and repair their modules. Instead, people just repair their hull/armor and keep on going.

Fatal Attraction
Posted - 2003.07.08 22:40:00 - [9]

I was always wondering how these repair systems can repair a ship that lost almost all hull and armor without any resources ... they should need minerals in order to repair hull and armor.

A few hundred Trit and some other minerals for letīs say 100 Armor/Hull points taken out of your cargo room.

Posted - 2003.07.08 23:02:00 - [10]

Perhaps another solution is to add a quality number (100% perhaps) to all items. This number is then applied to all relative functions of an item, ship or device. As the piece of equipment is used the quality number starts going down, and it drops even more dramatically if the item is damaged. Eventually, the item will not be worth using.

This would also allow for user created items to be of exceptional quality (over 100%).

This concept worked well in another space based MMORPG.

Vidar Kentoran
Eighty Joule Brewery
Posted - 2003.07.08 23:37:00 - [11]

I find it strange that someone would be happy with just owning a cruiser and have no interesting in getting into any other elements of the game, such as the blueprint market or manufacturing element or what have you.

Still, if you REALLY don't want any more isk.. I suggest you donate to the "Vidar Kentoran's Scorpion" charity :)

Damon Vile
AUS Corporation
Posted - 2003.07.08 23:55:00 - [12]

I haven't used an armor/ hull repair kit in a wile. But in the first few days/weeks of eve I used them all the time.

Having no armor/hull repair kits will hurt newbs more then corp ppl. The ones in big ships won't need them ofter. ppl fighting in frigates will. So no I don't think it's a good idea to get rid of them.

Gateway Industries
Posted - 2003.07.09 00:07:00 - [13]

Having damage affect modules is a great idea. I thought that was how it worked now.

I rarely take structure damage, so I didn't realise modules aren't affected by damage.

I think module damage is necessary for this game, it would make combat that bit more interesting.

Another need I would like in the game is fuel.

Ships should need fuel, it would add another element to the game and introduce the necessity to make money in order to go anywhere.

Though noob ships should have fuel supplied by the noob corp, as it would be crap to have no money for fuel and no way to make it!

However I realise that everyone else will probably hate this idea, and me for suggesting it, and that it will never make it to the game.


Posted - 2003.07.09 00:20:00 - [14]

Fatal Attraction makes an excellent point.

Great idea imho.

Teris Kender
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2003.07.09 00:38:00 - [15]

Listen Vidar, you goob. I didn't say I was interested in nothing else. I do all the activities: mine, pirate hunting, trade (my favorite). Hell, I payout isk for courier missions that I create, just to give newbies some fun. I do a variety of things...the POINT is that accumulating isk is not that big of a deal. In fact...there is no reason to. (Except to buy bigger and better stuff...yawn...then what?)

The Scope
Posted - 2003.07.09 02:19:00 - [16]

lol thats like saying there is no point in accumulating money or no point in doing anything whatsoever that u dont need to do....

u actually dont need to accumulate isk .. its all about havin fun playing a game, me id like to get enough isk to have my own battleship then ill start savin up with my corp to get our own station... im not playin to make isk im playin to have fun, to be able to pilot my very own Battleship ahhhh .... im gona mine veldspar in noob space with my leet battleship.. u want to know why ? for FUN.

STK Scientific
Posted - 2003.07.09 02:48:00 - [17]

I can say that damage to modules does infact affect performance. A heavily damaged shield booster will chew up your cap quicker than a fully repaired one, if it's almost destroyed, it won't activate at all, saying that there is not enough energy in your cap to activate it. People constantly put this down to a "bug". But it has been in the game since beta, and has never been fixed or mantioned in any bug listing from CCP

Jash Illian
Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.
Posted - 2003.07.09 02:56:00 - [18]

<< I can say that damage to modules does infact affect performance. A heavily damaged shield booster will chew up your cap quicker than a fully repaired one, if it's almost destroyed, it won't activate at all, saying that there is not enough energy in your cap to activate it. People constantly put this down to a "bug". But it has been in the game since beta, and has never been fixed or mantioned in any bug listing from CCP >>

Just got done with a fight leaving me with about 24% armor and 48% structure left. I took module damage and didn't notice anything different. And I was leaning heavily on my modules at the end :P

Just checked my modules (had to train mechanic 3 before I could use medium repairers so I waited on the repair bill). About 6 of my modules were damaged to 90%, including my shield booster. If there was a performance difference, I never noticed it. And I was pulling the bare dregs out of my cap and my modules to finish the fight

Edited by: Jash Illian on 09/07/2003 03:08:44

Posted - 2003.07.09 03:06:00 - [19]

The armor/hull repair modules are fine. Leave them be, I'm tired of seeing any useful items get smashed to pieces by a sledgehammer driven by whiners. No one really takes armor/hull repairs out into combat, atleast anyone with half a brain.

Think about it, one of the better pirate drop repairers repair around 70 armor per 22 seconds. In 22 seconds I would have done atleast 700+ dmg or anyone else for a matter of fact, no matter how weak your guns are, I'm sure you can do more then 70 damage in 22 seconds? So in the end you waste a perfectly good medium slot when you could have used another module to boost your range, damage, shields, speed or whatever else to help you.

On the module loosing performance when it is damaged, that seems pretty cool. Would be neat to see modules starting to fail after prolonged battles..

The Graduates
Posted - 2003.07.09 03:26:00 - [20]

I think you NEED to have your balls cut off for even suggesting that. :P

Posted - 2003.07.09 03:45:00 - [21]

I could do it. Some call me "razor girl" *eg*.

Vidar Kentoran
Eighty Joule Brewery
Posted - 2003.07.09 06:56:00 - [22]

"In fact...there is no reason to. (Except to buy bigger and better stuff...yawn...then what?)"

Uhm, how is this a problem with EVE? :P The same thing applies to money in real life...

I don't think we can expect CCP to solve life's great mysteries to make the game more interesting... lol...

Phoenix Propulsion Labs
Posted - 2003.07.09 07:45:00 - [23]

"This would also allow for user created items to be of exceptional quality (over 100%)."

heh been playin E&B ? what a hassle that 200% crap was.

Li'l Mol
Freelancing Corp
Posted - 2003.07.09 08:53:00 - [24]

what we need is some kind of isk pit, i suggested a while ago, running costs or fuel for ships, this would give players a need to make isk.
the bigger the ship the more the running costs are.
just my 2 isk worth :)

Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2003.07.09 08:57:00 - [25]

lol this is funny dont need isk LOL

why dont you give it away?
join a corp and give isk so that it benefits everyone and you at the end...

Posted - 2003.07.09 09:23:00 - [26]

As a more or less Solo member of the big corp I am in I have done the following:

Aquired without any assistance from my corp:

1 Atron, 1 navitas, 1 imicus, 1 tristan
1 Iteron MKII
1 Exequror
1 Thorax
1 Thorax BP copy.

I rake in more than 1 million ISK an hour just by mining kernite. To say nothing of the other things I do in EVE (NPC bounty, trade runs, corp freelance jobs ETC ETC).

To put that in perspective I could own one of the cheapest battleships in about 80 hours constant playtime.


I'm not posting this to sound Uber or anything, really I'm not, but what real need do I have for ISK?

Best weapons and equipment? NPC pirates.

Ships? I havre the ones I wanted...

Skills? I have one or two I still want, but in about two days I'll be done with that for quite some time until new things are implemented.

So where does my money go now? Unless I'm saving up the ISK to buy rare Minerals or something to produce something, it goes to the corp wallet...

I have two cruisers, with large crews (800 crewmembers I beleive for a thorax). Who pays them?

Not me thats for sure, it's like they are my slaves.

I thought this was meant to be one of the other reasons owning Amarr ships would be good? They would cost less in terms of crew payments (just need to buy them food and stuff, no salery).

As for Armor/Hull repairers...

The only way I would be comfortable with it working would be it requiring minerals. Maybe 10 units of trit and 5 mex for one point of armor or shield?

It SHOULD be cheaper than paying for a repair at a station, so the actuall mineral needs would need to be balanced so if you buy them you won't be wasting money.

As for fuel ETC, I DISLIKE this for two reasons:

One: while traveling in space, I'm sure your ship can scoop trace gases and dust to be used to power your engines... and if they are ION drives of some advanced kind, then there is NO need for fuel in any realistic sense.

The other reason is, I know people would whine and ***** and cry if thier priceless ship got stranded because they simply couldn't afford to buy enough fuel... this isn't EQ where you can go hungry forever and not die (you just lose lots of stats). Once your out of fuel thats it, your stopped.

Oxegen? doubt it's really a problem I'm sure every time you dock your ship simply gets oxygen free of charge as a courtesy for using the station in the first place (kind of like how if you stop at a gas station you can get your windows cleaned for free if you so desire).

But in a nutshell I would like to see:

Crew costing regular fee's: perhaps 100 ISK per crew member every week?

CCP could then theoretically make crew a comodoty in the game, you could buy better crew members if you needed, in combat crew would die everytime your structure gets damaged, and the efficiency of your ships systems as a whole goes down a small notch.

The better the crew levels the more they cost per week. The benefits could be small but meaningful perhaps a 2% boost to capacitor? 4% to Power output and shields? another 2% to Cpu output?

Maybe 1% increase to turret tracking speeds and ROF (as if the crew is very good at maintaining them always keeping them in literally perfect working order ETC).

Anyway thats all I got on the subject.

Teris Kender
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2003.07.09 11:33:00 - [27]

Setec: Funny. But I think you still miss the point.

Astaroth: Oh, I have fun in EVE. I never said I didn't. I just don't have FUN making isk. That's not what it's about for me.


The issue of NEEDS is related to the whole economy of EVE. The reason any kind of market or economy exist is to satisfy needs, not desires. Ultimately, you NEED food and shelter. That's why the rest of it is here. (That's the Materialist theory of society, anyway.)

So this is relevant to the market in EVE. Nobody provides anything that you need. (The only thing that comes close to a NEED is minerals. Those are free for the picking.)

Something like what Demangel suggested should be implemented. I just suggested the repairers because it would be easy, and it would be a consideration in combat (especially large scale conflicts). Someone suggested perhaps that repairers should require minerals. That's constructive too.

Finally, I'm not whining. Where does this stuff come from? Can anyone post anything here anymore without it being a whine? I think half the people who post don't even read the thread, they just hear a tone and react. (Like my dog.)
You don't have any poster ratings here people, we don't need the one liners...

Posted - 2003.07.09 11:46:00 - [28]

I really like the crew wages idea ;).
But id generate bills depending on flight time, that way frigates would be more attractive for some jobs.
And if your stuck at some station and cant pay your crew, you should be able to eject the pod in station to be able to leave. Imagine 800 mutineers rolling your pod out of the ship ;).

Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2003.07.09 12:00:00 - [29]

its been a while and i m still driving my damaged MOA cuz i dont need to repair its amor (60%)as i got 2 looted recoils and increase my armor by 400 each. Amy

Tyrell Corp
Posted - 2003.07.09 13:35:00 - [30]

noooo! they drop pretty often off rats and when recycled yiled a good amount of mega.

I'd rater hunt rats all night than stare glossy eyed at a rock while being slowly made insane by the drone of my mining beams.

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