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blankseplocked Seperate, New EVE Universe
 
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Elis Reik
Amarr
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.07.08 18:21:00 - [1]
 

I posted this on the idea lab earlier, but I hope for it to be a big topic of general discussion, not a specific change to EVE so anyone with comments or ideas, please reply:

I'm not sure if others have mentioned this yet, and if they have, I ask that someone refer me to that topic (I'd like to check out their suggestion and any replies/comments/flames it got).

Basically, I'm curious of CCP has considered a making a fresh start in a new EVE universe in a few months. This launch will level the playing field for anyone that is interested in starting over and allow things like developed character creation, skill availability, research, production, combat etc. to be available right at launch. People will no longer complain about the old availability of bistot and arkonor in empire space as well as the hording of factory and research slots which was one factor that led to the considerable success of mega corps like Taggart. People will be able to apply all the knowledge they’ve gained throughout their experiences in EVE and combine experience with a more developed version of EVE.

I’m definitely not one of the players that constantly complains to CCP about “paying for beta testing their game!!!!!111” and have felt that the enjoyment I’ve gotten out of the game so far was undoubtedly worth the purchase price and monthly charge. I do however think that a fresh start without scrapping the current EVE universe might appeal to players. From what I’ve found playing RTS games and MMOGs, it’s not the size of your wallet or your win/loss ratio that leads to your success, it’s your understanding of the game and experience that leads to success. Rightly so, I wouldn’t mind (actually would look forward to) a completely new EVE universe built on the most recent architecture.

Nirvy
Minmatar
Posted - 2003.07.08 18:22:00 - [2]
 

I'd rather not lose all the work put into my character thanks :
Only been playing a week, but if they decided to reset the universe, i dont think iw ould be coming back again. I only just managed to get a decent ship and start to live of NPC bounty and not have to mine.

Edited by: Nirvy on 08/07/2003 18:23:36

M0RPHEUS
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.07.08 18:25:00 - [3]
 

baaaad idea.....basicly you want to elect a president, see what he does and do a rollback to the election....the universe is developing, noobs are noobs as they are supposed to be, they have less experience. and about the ark - i mined a little yesterday...anyone wanna join me?

Neve Lucelli
Caldari
New Frontiers Expeditionary Inc.
Posted - 2003.07.08 18:26:00 - [4]
 

I couldnt be bothered with it all either - I'd have literally wasted two months of my time and I am not prepared to undergo the same tedium again as I tenuously wait (getting impatient) for something to take off in this game.

Elis Reik
Amarr
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.07.08 18:30:00 - [5]
 

I'm sure you guys scanned my reply but missed one important thing. I'm talking about a different EVE Universe, as the topic title suggests, not removing the current one. This would be ideal for new players and players that are interested in starting over, and I am definately NOT suggesting we do a wipe of what we have now.

Edited by: Elis Reik on 08/07/2003 18:36:36

Rashon
Posted - 2003.07.08 18:38:00 - [6]
 

I think that either you're missing an important point in this suggestion, or I'm reading too much into the initial post. The idea is that the fresh start would be *optional*. Start a third server farm to go with Tranquility and Chaos and let those who want a fresh start with the game as it is now go ahead and start fresh there.

I've never played anything else massively multiplayer, but this sounds an awful lot like how I understand other such games to work. Different players are on different realms/servers with no crossover between. I also understand that Eve seems to be trying to avoid that, so whether or not even a separate fresh-start server would fit with what CCP wants to do with this game is questionable.

But I don't think Elis is suggesting a full wipe of all characters so that everybody has to start over whether they like it or not. That would be pure madness. The choice to start fresh on a new server might not be entirely unreasonable. I don't know that I'd be in a hurry to take advantage of such a thing, but I'm sure there are plenty of players who would appreciate having the option.

Elis Reik
Amarr
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.07.08 18:42:00 - [7]
 

Thanks for helping to clarify, I posted about that just before you did but I assume you hadn't had the chance to read it while you made your longer reply.

Mr Bubbles
Posted - 2003.07.08 18:43:00 - [8]
 

I refuse to believe that anyone would take proactive steps towards things that would disallow them to complain further. Or as much.

Lilith
Minmatar
Posted - 2003.07.08 18:53:00 - [9]
 

Personally, I think it's a great idea. I'd like to see a RP Server. Then I'd be able to play and attack the Amarr slavers without fear of "griefing" a weekend player and inadvertantly ruining his/her gaming experience.
As it stands now, the RP element is purely an ad-hoc/part time situation.

Still, the way the security system has been altered now, group runs of Minmater Freedom Fighters would be halted by the first Amarr Sentry Guns. :(


nails
Caldari
Ota Corps
Posted - 2003.07.08 18:56:00 - [10]
 

The same thing happened in Ultima Online. If this happens I will leave the game. The idea for eve was for everyone on this planet to exist in the same server, the same universe. We co-exist regardless of standings or roles we choose to play in the game.

I am playing right now with the notion that all this anti-PKer support from Concord is temporary. I'm not a PKer, but there is also no way in hell I am going to play this game without them.

Those who have played Ultima would know that when the world was divided 80% of the players stayed in the non pvp world.. Rarely visiting the actual pvp world. Again this goes against everything EVE was created for. It might bring CCP more money in the long run, but most pvp people will leave.

Ultima Online didn't get split till several years after it went online, and this topic shows up already in under a year. This is NOT good news, and I promise everyone that this is not the right way to go in EVE. You will loose freedom in this game. Though if someday CCP does go through with it, it will only mean that they want the money and again give two craps about their actual players.

Rogue Noir
Amarr
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.07.08 18:58:00 - [11]
 

The whole point and appeal of eve to most of its players is that its all on one worls, one server, no sharding. There is no way this would work, it would kill the way the game is designed to be played.

Elis Reik
Amarr
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.07.08 19:04:00 - [12]
 

Where did the issue come up of a PVP free server? I suggested this idea to allow anyone that is aggressive about retaining the progress they made to be allowed to do so, but like the last post I would only perfer one EVE universe.

M0O, M3g4 and whatever other griefers are free to set up shop, as are genuine pirates and the current mega corps. The difference however is that they won't be able to ride the coat tails of old abuses or advantages (like hording many slots for a long time) to success, making things more competitive.

I don't want to radically change the game, but I do want the game to become better. That's why I suggested two seperate EVE worlds, because I believe enough players exist that want to keep things the way they are as well as enough that want everyone to have the same opportunities and potential, not just corps that had large gains from issues that have been resolved since the early weeks after release.

I was part of a corp that did a lot of Bist/Ark mining before the change and we did have a large number of slots. I'm an advocate that fights in the interest of fairness and I'm definately *not* pushing for a "carebear, PK free server."

Jash Illian
Minmatar
Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.
Posted - 2003.07.08 19:06:00 - [13]
 

I don't believe CCP has the resources to do so.

If their propaganda is to be believed, the current Eve Universe consists of a 40+ Xeon server cluster. 40+ xeon servers is no small change. Toss in the licensing from Microsoft for the OS on each machine and SQL servers, just for kicks.

Now toss in an equal amount of network connectivity, essentially duplicating their current contracts to equally support a new universe.

Now toss in the staffing required. New programmers wouldn't be needed but the new universe would require equal GM staffing for support.

This isn't EQ or AC, where a shard is running off a couple servers for a couple thousand people. This universe would have to be filled to the brim to make a 2nd one financially viable.

Rhonstet
Posted - 2003.07.08 19:15:00 - [14]
 

Given the enormous size of EVE, sharding seems premature, if not just irrelevant. Space is big, and if you need help catching up to the more advanced, there are ways to do it. Join a corporation with money to burn or specialize during chargen.

From the Dev Blog and the Forums, I've gotten the idea that the only reason why sharding would be considered is if the size of the userbase caused a physical requirement for multiple shards.

For example, if EVE sold a million copies, I don't think they could run all of the users on the same shard. They wouldn't have a choice, not if they wanted everybody who wanted to play to be able to.

As for starting everyone out fair, well, some things can't be fixed. You just have to deal with it.

Edited by: Rhonstet on 08/07/2003 19:20:16

nails
Caldari
Ota Corps
Posted - 2003.07.08 19:16:00 - [15]
 

The only people that would wish for something like this are the ones that keep getting their ships and pods destroyed. If you keep getting yourself owned then you suck and need to actually "learn" how to play the game instead of just thinking you can jump from poing A to point B in this game without any conflicts.

Someone noted in an earlier thread that if Carebears want this game without PKers (the human factor) then CCP should make a nice cozy single player game that you can interact with, and the NPCs will be nice to you, and not tell you to p33r their l33t p0w3rZ!

There is a game exactly like that right now, it's called Morrowind. Having clones in this game is more than enough safety net. Almost every ship in this game is a days work to get the cash for now.

-->You were careless and lost your ship on Friday.
-->You mine/trade/farm money on Saturday.
-->You are back to where you started on Sunday.

Elis Reik
Amarr
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.07.08 19:23:00 - [16]
 

I'm not suggesting sharding for the purposes of sharding. I'm suggesting a start with a much more recent version of the game to hopefully make EVE more of what the developers (and some players intended). Don't get me wrong, though I'm passionate about the idea, I'm not at all closeminded. A lot of your points make sense.

I also suggested this be done in several months, definately not immediately. There are more things that need changing but I think a fresh start might do the game good, regardless of whether or not the current EVE universe will continue.

Elis Reik
Amarr
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.07.08 19:30:00 - [17]
 

Nails, I don't mean to be disrespectful but I don't think you understand my situation well, and possibly the situation of others.

I have not been podded once, I am very happy about that, and that's not to say I haven't been in situations of danger. I was part of a mid-size corporation that held a prominent place in what is now called the Placid-Syndicate Commonwealth, I even helped to jump start infrustructure development within the alliance before pursuing other opportunities on my own.

As I've tried to make clear, several times, I don't want anything to change on this new, seperate server. The only difference will be the level of development, where players will start from scratch. I'm concerned that so much has changed in this game and that alone is a good reason for such an idea.

Aenedor
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2003.07.08 19:31:00 - [18]
 

If was optional then that would be fine with me, personally I will not restart, my 1.2mill skill points have taken a long time to accrue(sp?).

nails
Caldari
Ota Corps
Posted - 2003.07.08 19:46:00 - [19]
 

I'm not really sure what restarting everything would accomplish. Factory and Research slot problems should be fixed now. Late bloomers are just now starting to realize that stations in fountain, and other remote regions are completely filled up and you can't rent any more office space. Of course no office space should be expected, and it won't last forever once player stations are implamented.

The only reason I can see someone be pro fresh start on a new server with no changes would be so they could get a first run at stations, slots, etc.. Of course then you would be no different than the people that did the station rent out runs when gold launched.

Elis Reik
Amarr
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.07.08 19:48:00 - [20]
 

The whole point is that I'm looking to avoid people getting a "head start." Corporations that made use of abuses and advantages that are no longer available were propelled forward at a much faster rate than they might have been if the current architecture was in place at release. I'm not saying that things are bugless now or that they will be in a few months, but they're undoubtedly better than they used to be.

nails
Caldari
Ota Corps
Posted - 2003.07.08 20:09:00 - [21]
 

If you want everyone to keep from getting a head start then that second shard you want to make would have to be restarted every month. Lets say we make your server today, you join and happily build up with a bunch of other new players on this server. So come 3 months people on your server start to complain that you and others on your server have a head start on everyone and that another server with a "fresh start" should be created so everyone isn't so far ahead. Thus your paradox.

You seem to forget that CCP has already thought of this if you are worry about players building time. What seperates us is our skills? Great! once the implants are added to the game newbs will be training into cruisers in no time at all. They will catch up to the rest of the masses sooner than they would right now. I know everyone in the game would like to be a 5 GM, but there is no quick way to do it, even with high atributes and implants.

I think you need to be more patient and not let the ADD get to you so much. This game is for people with patience, those who put time and work into this game reap benefits, reguardless of the level. If your thinking as someone that always seems behind everyone else, that nomatter what you do you can never seem to catch up to everyone. You need to worry about yourself instead of others then. You will get their if you open yourself up to the game more.

When I joined beta, there were already people with player stations and battleships. Seeing a Raven fly by in beta was a common sight. Did it bother me that I didn't have a Raven like that guy did? NO! I knew that I would eventually get one. I was more extatic about saving up 1.4 million for a mark II badger. When I got that badger, I was so excited I couldn't sleep.

EVE is not setup like the real world. In the real world only the rich people get the Ferrari's. Maybe if you goto school for 8 years and become a doctor you can afford one too. In EVE, even starting out from scratch you can train the skills needed and be in a Raven in 2-3 weeks max. There is no minimum wage McDonalds job in this game. You kill a low level pirate and you get $1,000.

Anyway, I'm done ranting.

Edited by: nails on 08/07/2003 20:09:36

Elis Reik
Amarr
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.07.08 20:32:00 - [22]
 

I'm somewhat shocked that you made a personal attack against me. Accusing someone of having a serious disorder should not be done light heartidly. Maybe if you knew someone who has ADD you'd rethink such a statement.

I'm not suggesting we restart servers every three months, and you're misrepresenting my idea completely. A new server would give every person currently playing EVE a chance to start over in a more bug free environment. It's not about reseting things to accomodate new players constantly, it's about giving people the option to start off in a build of the game that isn't as one sided to early players as the current Universe is.

Just to clarify, I have beta experience and bought the game immediately after release. I have a highly developed character and am enjoying a great deal of success. I am a very hard worker and agree that a character's skills are important, but in some ways, the current state of EVE is giving people an "if you can't beat em, joing em" attitude, making these older corporations that much stronger.

Master Scy
Caldari
Posted - 2003.07.08 20:57:00 - [23]
 

The maximum users online at any time has been 2 weeks ago, and was arond 6,300. I want to see the number rise, not fall. Non-empire space is already empty enough as it is.

Jayce Wildstar
Caldari
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
Posted - 2003.07.08 21:01:00 - [24]
 

Nails you cant argue a point with Elis he doesn't hear your side of the debate. He will endlessly rant about how he is right and you are wrong. That is why he left his former corp & that is why others left his former corp & that is why those that left his former corp have declared war on his new corp. That is why I suspect that he wants to play on a new server is because he is scared.

Miriel Arkonis
Gallente
Posted - 2003.07.08 21:01:00 - [25]
 

Elis, you are the one who said the new server would be to give people a chance to "catch up" to the people who got a "head start" by exploiting rare minerals or bugs. But that applies to ALL new players just like Nails said. Players who are just starting now, players who start 3 months from now players who start 2 years from now. The point about having to restart the server every month is valid.

This is WHOLE POINT of an MMOG, the server is never reset and people keep building up. EVE is only 2 months old now, try to think ahead a few months. Right now some people have an advantage because of some inbalances in the game but what about 2 months from now? How about a year from now? Your whole corp will be flying battleships by then and the "head start" will be meaningless won't it?

If however you are one of the people who always has to be "first" and "best" than I have a bit of advice. Don't play MMOGs. The groups of people who play characters in relays 24/7 will always be ahead of you.

Elis Reik
Amarr
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.07.08 21:15:00 - [26]
 

I tried to make it clear that I respected Nail's arguments, just not the way he presented them (like the ADD remark). I see everyone's position and the purpose of this topic is to discuss.

My position about the idea is definately not as strong as it used to be, based on some of the arguments I heard. I've tried to keep things as constructive as possible and I think that's why people have been so successful convincing me and others that this isn't as clear cut a solution as I may have thought.

The main reason I thought a restart on a seperate server would be a good idea is that even if players that got in earlier would be ahead of players that created characters months later, they'd be ahead completely because of their own hard work and planning, not only because of CCP's oversights (which they've tried hard to fix).

I'm trying to look toward the long term. We're about two months into release and the game is radically different from what it was. If we're looking in a timeframe of years for EVE, it doesn't seem like a big chunk of time.

Hopefully you guys have some understanding of where I'm coming from. I respect your oppinions and welcome your input. Hopefully things will gloss over and things will work out for the best in the long term as a few of you have said.

Edited by: Elis Reik on 08/07/2003 21:17:11

Fneb
Minmatar
Posted - 2003.07.08 21:25:00 - [27]
 

I'm a noob at Eve (less than a week), and I'm not at all bothered that there are characters and corps that are way, way ahead of me as far as progress in the game is concerned.

I actually think that it's pretty cool that there is already an established base of players of all experience levels. It makes the universe seems much more 'filled out'.

If anything, it seems that the high end power players are the ones complaining about lack of content and competition. Us noobs have tons of interesting and new things to keep us busy.

nails
Caldari
Ota Corps
Posted - 2003.07.08 21:50:00 - [28]
 

that's the spirit Fneb! :D

slothe
Caldari
Jian Products Engineering Group
Atlas.
Posted - 2003.07.08 21:51:00 - [29]
 

bah

this game is like life- its not fair and its not supposed to be.

thats the point !!

Master Scy
Caldari
Posted - 2003.07.08 21:58:00 - [30]
 

Tranqulity will die if a new server comes up. Some of the current tranqulity subscribers will switch to begin with. Then all the new buyers will jump to the new server because fewer people will have battleships there. Tranqulity meanwhile will not get any new members at all, while some of the current members will be slowly leaving to play other games.
So in a year, you'd have the new server with 20,000 peak users and I'd be extremely upset on tranqulity which would by then have 1,000 users online at peak times.


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