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blankseplocked Eve is just a race
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Posted - 2003.07.08 18:12:00 - [1]

Very soon, one corp will have enough members, income, method, ships to do whatever they like and no-one will be able to stop them. People in other corps will either want to join them (if you can't beat em join em attitude) or leave.

New players joining now, how far behind are they for heavens sake - little Ibis flying around by Battleships costing 1 billion for the BP.

The game is just a race and I suspect many people are now feeling dejected because they are not in the race. To get good loot from pirates, you need good ships - so mining is the way with some trading for the smaller corps. The bigger corps can loot for hours and exponentially increase their income because money makes money.

Is the aim of the game simply to exist, or is it the first corp to be able to control the universe and wipe others out at will - because that will happen - in theory at least - but the GM's will not let it happen because they have to keep interfering as their game mechanics do not work. How much does it say about the planning of this game if you simply cannot sit back and let players play by the rules. Moo must have played by the rules because it is not obvious how you cheat i.e. re-programming/mods etc, anything you do in-game cannot be cheating. If the GM's need to interfere with the game, then the game is wrong. And it is - cos there is no real point to it.

The fundamental problem with this game is that a corp can become as big as it wants - big size will always beat little size unless the GM's take control. A solo player is wasting his money - whereas the only players guaranteed a real chance in the future are the ones in big corps. If you join a corp of 80+ members, everything is handed to you on a plate. It makes sense for the corp to give you a Cruiser cos you can make so much money for them that it is an investment. Join a little corp and you will have to spend a couple of weeks mining every day to get somewhere. So everyone wants to join a big corp. I am in a small corp of 18 members and one guy left to join a corp with 65 members. I aksed him why the next day and he said - "easy, I got the promise of a Moa yesterday.
Today I'm flying it." How can the new starting corps now compete with that?

I saw a corp with 97 members today and that is 2% of the average high number of people online - they can make money in amazing quantities - and do whatever they like - blcokade if they want - set market prices if they want - kill who they want. There really is no way of stopping their snowballing progress - they will get bigger and bigger and leave others behind. To supress their boredom, coz they will soon have done it all, the GM's will release all new content into the game to give them something to do, while new players and small corps wont have got enough together to afford their cruiser BP's. What will then happen to NPC Pirates? If corps are going around in their big Battleships, will the NPC pirates get buffed up to make a good fight of it - if so, how can the small guys take them on? So, good loot to the big boys and nothing for the small.

The game will soon reflect real society - there will be the mega rich and the , mega poor. Perhaps we need a tax system where the rich corps pay 50% in tax etc and the small corps get state benefits?

I'd like to know where people see this potentially amazing game going?

Posted - 2003.07.08 18:41:00 - [2]

This is probably why corporate wars usually require both parties to approve the conflict.

I think that large corporations are going to continue to get bigger and bigger. This is natural, as corporations have no bureaucratic overhead that requires its own income to maintain. The exact process is going to involve a series of recruitment drives and mergers. Evetually it will turn into a bidding war, as different corporations offer signing bonuses to more experienced players who can bring unusual items, skills, or knowledge to benefit the corporation.

And that's a big problem thus far. There is no expendature, no infrastructure to maintain beyond the purchase of goods and services. Large corporations can throw all their members into corporate Moas because there are no problems associated with being big. Titans and Space Stations might change this, but this is by no means a given.

The biggest problem though is that corporation size isn't going to be kept in-check with skills. We are already seeing 'recruitment corporations', and other sub-corporations that are part of a larger collective.

But, I'm of the cautiously-guarded opinion that this kind of monoliticism can't last. It will get boring for the pilots, who might dream of making bigger profits on their own. The GMs might step in under the guise of the SCC and break up any such monopoly. Nevermind the possible personality conflicts that might occur.

Posted - 2003.07.08 19:09:00 - [3]

Here are my thoughts on the subject:

First off, as to the question "What is the point of it all", I say why not ask the question "What is the meaning of life" - In any MMORPG, the game is what you make of it. As to all the things you can do or work towards, I wont go over those, because I imagine you know what those are.

Now, as far as mega corporations ruling the land... I doubt it... Why you ask??? Well this is a much debated topic and the best I can do is pull from my own past experience: Ie... Jumpgate: Here is a space sim where you have three factions, all vying for power... At times one faction, or one group would grow to extreme sizes and dominate for a while (Ala EEA for you JG ppl). At no time did any GM's involve themselves in putting these groups down. Instead what would happen is, The smaller groups would band together and kick em so hard till they had no option other then to break apart or the players would no longer find it "fun" and simply leave...

Otherwise known as the all mighty "Self policing" player base. Eve can do the same thing, I even saw an example of this about a week ago, when two semi-large-corps formed up and created a blockade. In retaliation, about 10 trading corps, consisting of over 30 players banded together and kicked em so hard, I think they are still running :)

Posted - 2003.07.08 19:28:00 - [4]

One corp will never be able to control all of eve. Simple answer to this really, Empire space will always be safe. Ever had to shoot at someone who is in a n00b corp? Big sentry guns, police that chase you to heck 'n back. Doesn't matter how big the corp, you can't declare war on a n00b corp. so those who are members of them, assuming they stay inside empire space will never be attacked.

Second how many 0.0 systems are there? I've lost count at 50... lots of space for 1 group to control. *snip*

Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2003.07.08 20:53:00 - [5]


Please be critical in a constructive way - Mayumi

Mira Finoso
Horror Business
Posted - 2003.07.08 21:49:00 - [6]

I have to agree with Kyller on this topic. The game is truly what you make of it. If you are worried about what everyone else has vs. what you have, then you may be looking at the game in the wrong light.

My corp is much, much smaller than most. We have only 4 members, yet we enjoy the game daily. We have managed to accumulate quite an impressive set of assets for such a small team, and we are continuing to HAVE FUN. Isn't this the important bit?

We own a piece of market within our Region, as we are the only corp manufacturing a certain product. There're great opportunities in this game. You just have to look for them.

Yes, there is a chance that big corps will become VERY VERY large, but isn't that the beauty of it? We are all working together in Eve to create our own story. Whether you are a small band of smugglers or a huge corporation, with power to control the market, it's all role-playing. What will your existence bring to the world of Eve?

Much like the story of Star Wars, there will undoubtedly be an "Empire" (or two) controlling a large area of unsettled space... perhaps even creating the opportunity for a "Rebellion Alliance" (or seven) to form. The social potential of this game seems like something to praise, not complain about.

Am I wrong?

The PAIN Syndicate
Posted - 2003.07.08 22:14:00 - [7]

I'm in a 3 people corp and i can't complain we are effective and we could afford a bship for each of us if we wanted.
I doubt a really BIG corp can make money effectively. They get loads of money cause they are so many but i think a 100 ppl corp doesn't make 10 times the money a 10 ppl corp does. I mean in a 100 ppl corp you don't even know each other.

However, i agree that there should be some disadvantages of being big. Like bureaucracy costs.

Uragan Zelp
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2003.07.08 22:39:00 - [8]

Just as in real life, it is very difficult to organize a large corp in a way that allows it to work at full efficently. It is very difficult for a large corp be agile enough to exploit new opportunities which smaller corps will be able to do.

EVE consists of 5000 systems (and perhaps even more to come) so is inconseivable that any corp ,how ever large and determined, could effectivly control it.

Basically there is a place for large corps and a place for smaller corps in EVE. There is even a place for solo players (although I really dont think you are getting the best out of the game this way).

Not everyone determins their success in the game by the size of their fleet of battleships.

Edited by: Uragan Zelp on 08/07/2003 22:42:01

Posted - 2003.07.08 22:54:00 - [9]

The guy I work with who brought EVE to my attention runs a corp and there are overheads to maintaining a large corp. Time and patience, not everybody does what they are suppose to in a corp. Big corps are probably more vulnerable than most to theft from an infiltrator. I joined a 80 member corp with my first character no hassle at all. They did not know me from Adam, I was'nt screened, with 30 minutes I could have legged it with a big ship if I had the skill and left the owner floating in space.
Massive corps will become victims of their own succes. Falling prey to small time predators and alliances.

Li ShangYin
Chung Kuo
Posted - 2003.07.08 23:14:00 - [10]

Assuming you get your corp to 80 man strong and have that kind of lax recruitment set up then yes it'd not be that weird if you get cleaned out, but hey that's what being that easy to get into will bring you if you combine it with communistic ideals of sharing stuff with everyone and so forth....

Internet Tough Guys Inc.
Posted - 2003.07.09 00:39:00 - [11]

Some people have something called pride. This is not real life so people wont be very reasonable, thus they will not always join large corps. You will see many MANY crops get stronger and stronger. There are also many corps lying low, with more power than many relize.

Also im sure you will soon see megacorps go to war. Sure they might get all the glory but thier allies, the smaller corps will fight along side the large ones.

What CCP needs to do is add more reasons to go to war. You will never see every one allied to one corp, or ever see only one corp in complete control, people build corps and stick with the corps they build.

Calista Industries
Posted - 2003.07.09 00:55:00 - [12]

"Assuming you get your corp to 80 man strong and have that kind of lax recruitment set up then yes it'd not be that weird if you get cleaned out, but hey that's what being that easy to get into will bring you if you combine it with communistic ideals of sharing stuff with everyone and so forth...."
And there's the rub. Getting to 80 members without letting in a lot of rubbish requires a lot of investment in time and effort. And that's the management overhead some people above were referring to.

Posted - 2003.07.09 04:12:00 - [13]

The idea that there is a Corp that will zap me into a hunk of frozen organic matter faster than you can say "I got podded by m0o and all my clone got was this lousy t-shirt" is what keeps me going. It's exciting. I'm not so powerful that I'm ****y, but I do ok. It's like being on a roller coaster for the first time; you don't know the turns, so they scare the sh!t out of you when they come. When someone starts hollering about Ywev or LordZap being in the system, the ole pulse starts racing.

What will eventually happen, as you have said in this post already, people will get sick of m0o's crap, form a multi-corp rebellion, and kick them until they don't get back up. This will probably take a long time. It, however, is inevitable.

What this does, however, is open up a gap for another high-powered corp to call a constellation or region their own, and begin podding anyone who goes there. Then we will all be gasping for air and warping to the nearest station when their names pop up in the Local window.

I will get flamed for this, but thats ok. I say "Hooray for m0o"! Keep being ********s! Knowing that you are lurking out there aiming more firepower than the entire Gallente Nation at my little Merlin with every intent of blasting me into space dust keeps me coming back. And yes, before anyone opens their mouth, I have been podded before, and by m0o...


Posted - 2003.07.09 05:43:00 - [14]

I'd have to agree with you there RM.


Heretic Army
Posted - 2003.07.09 08:01:00 - [15]

The largest a corp can be is 300 members I think. I think CCP kinda wanted a couple big corps in the game.


Doom Guard
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2003.07.09 08:16:00 - [16]

Yep, but the "big" capacity is mostly there because each player can hold 3 characters...
And all those characters can be a member of the same corp :)

Most members of corporations have this I think: a character in high-security for easy mining, and a character in 0.0 for mining ops, NPC pirate hunting, podding [M3G4] or whatever :P

Doom Guard
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2003.07.09 08:16:00 - [17]

// double post

When is the "Delete" button going to work :( ?

Edited by: StarWolfer on 09/07/2003 08:17:31

Soul Reaver
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2003.07.09 08:17:00 - [18]

Mate you dont know what your talking about. I play solo (Although now im in the Cult) I have MOAS and an Armageddon to. All from Solo play :) Get of your arse and actually play the game without *****ing about what you can and cannot do. SO what if the big corps get big? There are inherent proiblems for them if they do :) Its easy to infiltrate a large corp and destroy it from the inside out.


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