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blankseplocked Pirates have patience!!
 
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Peregrin
Posted - 2003.07.08 00:43:00 - [1]
 

Everyone wants this game to be this way or that way, some people say screw the carebears others say down with the noob killing pkers. Then you start hearing all these pirates say they are gonna quit cuz of the recent changes. I agree the changes do make pirating very difficult and almost obsolete in empire space and since the player base isnt that big yet and there are almost no trade routes that go through 0.0 space cuz of the super highway you guys will need to get in line at the unemployment dept. in Amsen. But i still think that in the LONG run what CCP is doing is good.
You just need to be patient and adapt.

They needed to level out the playing field badly. The pirates complain that everyone is scared to fight them, what we are scared of is having to sit in some .8 system for the next 1-2 weeks weeks mining omber so we can replace that cruiser we spent weeks saving for only to have it annihilated by pirates in BS's and upper end cruisers killing us in literally 5 seconds cuz CCP didnt have the foresight to have the combat balanced prior to release. When most but not all of the pirates get a cruiser or BS destroyed they just hop in another one of there backups. You can't blame anyone for using the surgical strike bug, in PvP you use any advantage u can that the system allows it would be stupid if you didnt cuz you know others are.

But my point is the beta testers and people who played this game from the onset had a huge advantage due to bugs and prior knowledge of the game before hand. But I also agree that people who beta tested and started playing this game at the onset should have an advantage, but because of skill training bug and ark and bist in empire space, that gave those people a light year advantage over those who joined the game later on and who could not take advantage of those bugs and that is what lead to these series of events.

CCP is giving newcomers a chance to grow and prosper in relative safety in empire space so that one day soon we can fight back, so that we can have the resources develpoed so that we can go out and hunt pirates or be pirates ourselves. Having a 1-2 month advantage to grow and develop skills in a persistent PvP world is an ENORMOUS advantage. How can you expect others to compete who have been barely playing and do not fully understand the game?

This game needs time to evolve and most importantly it needs more subscribers so that people will be forced to enter 0.0 space cuz of overcrowding. But that will never happen if newcomers are not allowed to catch up with others who have been playing for a while longer than them and that is why i think making empire space really safe now is a good idea in the long run for this game. Its a great game i think we all agree on that and yeah sure it has bugs and imbalances but what doesnt. After a few months all the newcomers that just recently joined in the past month or so will have bulked up and then you pirates will get your fights and then some, you just have to be patient. I'm not saying all of you were beta testers some catch on quicker than others. But you have to let others have a fair chance to grow if you ever want to have this game become one of the best PvP persistent worlds to date.

Openheimer
KiwiBank Corp
Posted - 2003.07.08 00:58:00 - [2]
 

Good Post.

Points of interest:

Certain players getting the jump on other players because of ark/bistot in Empire space.

Combat balancing is happening now.

Player Pirates now have to compete like everyone else for resources etc and they can no longer camp 1.0- 0.5 sec space.

Openheimer
Sirius Corp

Maarek Steele
Gallente
GalTech Heavy Industries
Posted - 2003.07.08 01:00:00 - [3]
 

Bad Points:

There is no risk to trade
People are making Millions easily.
Prices have already dropped to NPC prices

Lola
Gallente
Posted - 2003.07.08 01:28:00 - [4]
 

heh, it's going to take 50 days for their security status to go up the the point they can get back in empire space. I can make enough to buy a top battleship blueprint trading safely in empire space in that amount of time(solo). You honestly expect people to pay and wait for their security to get better so they can go where they used to be able to go all through beta and right up to the patch? I doubt I'd give CCP my money if that happened to me. Oh wait they could kill 1000000000000000 NPC pirates to bring up their security status. With this next patch that's on Chaos both corps are going to have to agree to war. CCP basically turned off the PVP flag in their database.

Myrmex
Nevahefas Etarip
Posted - 2003.07.08 01:37:00 - [5]
 

i tough you could get back at your starting location to bribe your agents to get back your security rating , dont tell but im gonna die ! ... use a pod and some people in cruiser that are not in the negative status so they can escort you there.

or simply use a low end cruiser , equipped with as much speed item you could fit on and run for your life to reach your agents or ... set clone location there and go ram your ship in whoever wants your bounty :)

Lola
Gallente
Posted - 2003.07.08 01:40:00 - [6]
 

Well you need an agent with that feature and I don't think the level 4-5 agent that could do it is in the game. Level 1 agents with that feature can bring you from -2 to -1.

Jash Illian
Minmatar
Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.
Posted - 2003.07.08 01:46:00 - [7]
 

<< But i still think that in the LONG run what CCP is doing is good.
You just need to be patient and adapt.
>>

No. "N" and "O": No.

Let's look at the reverse. It took CCP 2 months to jack up the security system to the point where piracy became obsolete. During those 2 months, the non-pirates still had things they could do. They may not have been able to go get the ark/bist they wanted, tho the logical side of me says if they couldn't take they risk they didn't deserve it. But they could still mine. Some braved the risk and mined the best roids anyways. Pirates cannot 'brave' the risk and enter Empire Space. They can only die.

People could still trade. They may not have been able to get juicy cross regional trade routes, but again no risk no reward. Some braved the risk and did the trade routes anyways. Again, pirates don't have that option.

I could go down the list but during the 2 mounths it took CCP to make these changes, people still had viable options availible to them. The same is NOT true of the pirates. And judging by CCP lack of response to this issue and the performance given on the original issue, do you honestly expect someone to wait patiently and quietly for an indetermined amount of time? Gladly paying CCP for the original screwing? And paying them more while they wait to be unscrewed?

Now, I'm not actually being hostile to you. You actually seem to get the fact that things are currently screwed. But so long as people remain quiet about this, just as much time (if not more) will pass. I opt to make noise and not be patient. Not because I'm a pirate (cause I'm not). But because CCP pulled an important piece of gameplay from the game. Because people were not quiet and patient.

Because they were loud and impatient.

Setec
Caldari
The Graduates
Posted - 2003.07.08 01:47:00 - [8]
 

The sentry guns in 0.1-0.3 space definitely need to go.

Right now there isn't much strategy in picking locations as a pirate. The best places to be are the chokepoints from 0.0 space into empire space.

It used to be fun to watch the trade good market and try to find a good gate to camp in between the supply and most likely used demand. This was not easy by any means--finding a low sec system in between the two was often difficult, and often when you found one it often had an insta-jump warp-in point. Finding profitable locations was an interesting challenge. Now it's not--the "profitable" trade route spots in empire space are so very few and far between that it's more profitable to camp 0.0 chokepoints because they're so much easier to locate.

Jash Illian
Minmatar
Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.
Posted - 2003.07.08 01:49:00 - [9]
 

<< i tough you could get back at your starting location to bribe your agents to get back your security rating , dont tell but im gonna die ! ... use a pod and some people in cruiser that are not in the negative status so they can escort you there.

or simply use a low end cruiser , equipped with as much speed item you could fit on and run for your life to reach your agents or ... set clone location there and go ram your ship in whoever wants your bounty :)
>>

Low level agents will barely touch a player with a -1 sec rating. They won't go near pirates.

And it's not just about escaping security space. The point is then "What the hell are they supposed to do now?". If they wanted to mine, they would have chosen mining as a career choice. And that's about all there is to do in 0.0 space. Mine and hunt NPC pirates, which they don't need to do as they've prolly already gotten everything they need from an npc pirate.

Zuul
Posted - 2003.07.08 02:20:00 - [10]
 

If you think griefing is an important piece of gameplay, then maybe it is time for you to find another game.

peace

Lola
Gallente
Posted - 2003.07.08 02:25:00 - [11]
 


M0RPHEUS
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.07.08 02:28:00 - [12]
 

Personaly, i enjoy the new changes. But it did turn most "pirates" from being street gangs to rather large criminal syndicates, and frankly i dont know whats worse for u carebears - getting an indy taken out once in a while or getting stomped hardcore by a well organized crime machine :) but it was ur choice. CCP should give us some to time to play with this patch tho, i want to try this, might be lots of fun!!!

M0RPHEUS
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.07.08 02:31:00 - [13]
 

Bah didnt see this one...Zuul, if you call PvP griefing go play Pokemon Online.
-pikachu!-

Hampsta
Posted - 2003.07.08 02:46:00 - [14]
 

Morpheus, I agree that we need to give the changes some time and see how things shake out. But, so far Piracy seems to be nearly impossible since we are forced to operate in non-empire space almost exclusively.

Gate camping was already hard enough with MWDs and the invulnerability time after warping. The guns should be removed from .0 - .3, that way pvp would be possible again inside empire space.

I started playing eve because of the PvP system, I hope this trend toward the soft and fluffy stops.

M0RPHEUS
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.07.08 03:00:00 - [15]
 

Haha you realy dont account for people's perception of this my friend :) As long as they feel secure in Empire space i will be glad to show them they are wrong every time. And CCP better make some nice story when pirates kick some Concord ass in 1.0 :P Ill meet anyone in Concord capital for 100 mil....:) Otherwise im going to go do some more surveilance....

M0RPHEUS
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.07.08 03:01:00 - [16]
 

Devs were trying to stop mindless murder...Im sure there are many ways to get people's stuff except gate camping. Personally i got bored of gate camping - very dull and usually unprofitable.

Lola
Gallente
Posted - 2003.07.08 03:36:00 - [17]
 

MORPHEUS, I have 20 million in cargo and I'm at a superhighway gate in a Bestower. You can have it if you can take it. I just passed Yulai and New Caldari. I bet the 5 other indies racing to the gate have about the same so there is your 100 million. Come and get us.

Myrmex
Nevahefas Etarip
Posted - 2003.07.08 03:58:00 - [18]
 

why dont you try on chaos to kill those nice commander in battleship , but i doubt theyre worth it .. i scanned them and thier cargo hold is empty .. talk about crap ....

Beseb
Minmatar
R.O.T.
Posted - 2003.07.08 05:35:00 - [19]
 

Things are only getting better. Piracy is a minor part of this game. If you disagree with that, you are blinded by your lust to kill...:)

The problem was piracy was becomming the profession of choice because of how easy it was (hush Setec, you've never formed a real arguement against that).

PvP != ganking people at star gates. That's just people trying to make this an FPS, which it isn't by a long shot. PvP in this game is really Corp vs Corp, territorial battles, fights over resources, etc, etc. The piracy part is obviously part of the game, but mostly inconsequential given the main scope and purpose of the game.

Besides, there are inumerable empire space gates that have no guns at them, so there.

Arondos
Minmatar
Old Timers Guild
Posted - 2003.07.08 06:51:00 - [20]
 

Gee being a pirate now means you can't operate in empire space freely? Waaah

You can't get to every station? Waaah

It's not a gravy train of sit at a gate and farm indies? Waaah

Being a pirate now might actually require some skill and thought to be good at it.

Instead of just camping a gate and telling your bud "yo d00d l3tZ bl0W uP s0m3 n00b |Ndi3Z anD geT sUm pHat l33t lEwtZ"

ABNTanker
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2003.07.08 06:55:00 - [21]
 

PVP is any kind of fighting between 2 or more players. Its not 1 part piracy 2 parts corp vs corp 1 part bounty hunting its all of the above.

Lola
Gallente
Posted - 2003.07.08 06:59:00 - [22]
 

Beseb, if piracy is such a minor part of the game why is it such a major part of the marketing?

http://eve.skjalfti.is/trailers/Eve_Trailer_9a.wmv

How can you watch that trailer and say that? CCP is turning off all avenues of PVP in this game. Word is your enemy has to accept a war invite? WTF is up with that? Is CCP under new management?

Turtle
Posted - 2003.07.08 07:26:00 - [23]
 

Well the people with the problem here are the so called pirates and they caused the problem to begin with using every exploit they can get there hands on.

Being a pirate should be the most challenge aspect to this game and by far the most rewarding if you can make it work. Not only do you need to avoid the cops but you need to find your pray. Be this in 1.0 or 0.1 it makes no difference. If a pirate stays in one place for to long the cops come calling. And the only chance you have against the cops is to run.

Look I want a full and rich game with all the aspects that entails. Gate guns IMO need to go in all space except stations. But until a way is found to get rid of gate camping its not going to happen. I don't know how to solve this problem but I agree no risk, very little reward.

semp
Caldari
Tyrell Corp
Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
Posted - 2003.07.08 07:58:00 - [24]
 

Very good points made in the original post, as for the rest of you pirates......what a shame it is for you. I mean why should you have to examin the market to see where the best trade runs are, so you know which gates to camp etc.....why i ask you why?

Well let me tell you because you guys have had it to easy to long.....its about time you learn to play you profession.

Our group made a trade run the other day, it was over 22 jumps and consisted of 9 indys and support vessels. As we passed through several low level sectors and this convoy made quite a stir, we must have made a few peeps jump as they jumped into a system where we were sitting waiting to jump to the next gate. Total amount of this cargo we were hauling was over 80mil isk, and we made about 20 mil + profit, this took us about 1 1/2 hours to run it in total.

MY POINT?

There is still alot of scope for pirates in this game, its just a shame that so many of you are disorginazed and insular that you could never hope to hit anything like this, and stick to preying off the solo ships you happen to come across......and you call yourself pirates !!!

You just dont have a clue...put on yer eye patch, pop that stuffed parrot on your shoulder and head off to the nearest childrens party....lets face it its the only way you clueless fools will make any cash now :)

Semp
CEO Tyrell Corp

Edited by: semp on 08/07/2003 08:03:13

Edited by: semp on 08/07/2003 08:07:51

Graham O'Connor
Gallente
Posted - 2003.07.08 08:43:00 - [25]
 

interesting post. i can see where both sides of arguments are going. but what bugs me most about this:

this universe is supposed to be persistent! i want to see changes made in a persistent way. i would not mind if CCP sees a problem and steers around it by installing sentry guns at jumpgates in certain systems over a certain amount of time. that would make sense and one could much better predict the effects or observe the effects it will have and e.g. stop the countermeassures before too much damage is done.

anyway, logging in and finding out that all of a sudden within one hour the whole universe got changed just sucks.

i am also missing an ingame news-organization. where is eve-CNN? i want to have 24/7 coverage of all the stuff happening in my universe.

i want to get news coverage of blockades, i want to hear statements of politicians as to why sentry guns are being installed at jumpgates and where...

Endyl
Radio Free Albemuth
Posted - 2003.07.08 08:48:00 - [26]
 

All profit from trade routes involving only secure space should be nerfed, why would one pay hard money for something so easy do to ?

New profitable trade routes should be added, but between NPC pirate corporations and empire space.

Lola
Gallente
Posted - 2003.07.08 11:07:00 - [27]
 

I agree with Endyl. I think the good ore should slowly dry up from empire space too. You could still AFK mine for 1 million isk an hour so there would be no reason for people to complain and it would get people out of empire space. I still fear that wouldn't be enough incentive to fight. Death is harsh in this game. The potential for reward needs to be greater than the risk.

Seer
The Angeleyes
Stainless.
Posted - 2003.07.08 11:29:00 - [28]
 

Sorry - it boils down to this

Pirates want easy cash of others hard work (dont think even pirates will disagree with that)

Trouble is now that weapons work like they supposed to and the police actually works in EMPIRE SPACE! they havent got the brains to work out some new tactics

I think its sad - I am not a pirate but can think of several ways to get some pirate victims and know exactly where i would go - but the pirates can't figure it out and thus moan and whinge and cry and quit cos they cant become rich without even moving their ship.

USE YOUR BRAINS PIRATES - IF THATS TOO MUCH GO BACK TO CS - EMPIRE SPACE IS ABOUT 20% of the whole damn universe fools - that leaves 80% (where all the good stuff is anyway) for you to ply your trade and I know you will actually make more money and find better loot.



Edited by: Seer on 08/07/2003 11:30:08

Endyl
Radio Free Albemuth
Posted - 2003.07.08 11:37:00 - [29]
 

Seer I think you didn't got the point.

Due to the sentry guns at gates, and bases opening fire on low security people, pirates have been "banned" from empire space, it's ok, that's the way it should be imho.

BUT, the game lack of content in low security space, that mean that they got banned out of the "living game", because there's not enough things really worth to do in low sec space to take the risk.

And actualy it's WAY TOO FREAKIN EASY to mass tons of ISK without even touching 0.0 space, this is not the way it should be.

RISK = ACCOMPLISHMENT = REWARD, that's the way it should be.

Weapon ballance have nothing to do with that, and I agree that if pirating dies in Eve, the game will die out of boredom.

So this should be now a priority to move the content out of empire space, and push people to go out in the wildness if they want to make profit.



Edited by: Endyl on 08/07/2003 11:37:49

semp
Caldari
Tyrell Corp
Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
Posted - 2003.07.08 11:56:00 - [30]
 

Seer,

you missing the point, they cant use what they havn't got. Maybe they should try E&B I hear its a great game.....hohoho

Pirates,

Put up or shut up...and dont come crying here because we really dont care.

And as for making millions on small trade runs within safe space....good, thats how it should be....with even more money to be made by even longer runs. Money in game is almost useless anyway...all its good for is buying skills and original BP's, everything else aint worth it.

Semp
CEO Tyrell Corp

Edited by: semp on 08/07/2003 11:56:17


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