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Crepiscule
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2003.07.08 22:59:00 - [91]
 

*taps the keg*

Have a drink and relax guys. This thread started out very nice but has taken a bit of a denture into poo poo land.

But you both get 10pts for tenacity.

Jash Illian
Minmatar
Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.
Posted - 2003.07.08 23:13:00 - [92]
 

<< *taps the keg*

Have a drink and relax guys. This thread started out very nice but has taken a bit of a denture into poo poo land.

But you both get 10pts for tenacity.
>>

It's simply wanting an official response. I can suffer through the flames (oh they hurt me so) to get a response.

Gravedancer
Caldari
LV Praetorians
Posted - 2003.07.08 23:50:00 - [93]
 

If the posts on this thread continue to grow like they have, people will fall asleep while scrolling down the pages.


Jash Illian
Minmatar
Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.
Posted - 2003.07.08 23:56:00 - [94]
 

<< If the posts on this thread continue to grow like they have, people will fall asleep while scrolling down the pages. >>

Don't look at me. If I were someone at CCP, I'd have responded and locked the thread somewhere around page 2.

Lola
Gallente
Posted - 2003.07.09 02:35:00 - [95]
 

I found a new MMORPG that I'm switching too. Expect to see me posting the link all over the place because it's going to rock

http://wishbear.net/

OMG SO STOKED!!!!

Jash Illian
Minmatar
Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.
Posted - 2003.07.09 02:40:00 - [96]
 

<< I found a new MMORPG that I'm switching too. Expect to see me posting the link all over the place because it's going to rock >>

You, Lola, should be beaten within a millimeter of your pod for not putting a warning label on that.

Damn near went into diabetic shock

syndic4te
Amarr
Posted - 2003.07.09 03:36:00 - [97]
 

every solar system in empire space should have a 1.0 security rating, why go down if every solar system in empire space is secure


Maarek Steele
Gallente
GalTech Heavy Industries
Posted - 2003.07.09 04:44:00 - [98]
 

Ok, Tie up Lola, the priest is on his way so we can exorcise the fury little demons...

Lola
Gallente
Posted - 2003.07.09 04:57:00 - [99]
 

It wasn't me I swear! It was the evil Lola with a Goatee.

Lola
Gallente
Posted - 2003.07.09 05:02:00 - [100]
 

But you gotta admit Cheer Bear rules. Look at her stats:

Cheer Bear

Color: pink
Symbol: rainbow

Cheer Bear is the Care Bear cheerleader. She's spunky, totally optimistic and gung ho to the nth degree. Cheer Bear has the power to get the adrenaline flowing and the spirit to win going in almost anyone. However Cheer Bear believes that everyone's ideas and plans should be supported and often this causes problems when she finds herself supporting opposing views.

I mean wouldn't you want her in your corp? I don't know what you evil pirates have against Care Bears.

Joshua Calvert
Caldari
Rule One
Posted - 2003.07.09 06:17:00 - [101]
 

Actively seeking a link related to carebears?


Ummm, pathetic.

You're clouding your (mostly) valid issues with that kind of thing.

Drutort
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2003.07.09 09:04:00 - [102]
 

i like the idea of hacking...

but you d ont need to hack just block the guns from firing at anyone :)

then pirates can try and take over the gates again :)

BUT have the guns send msg or something and concord or whoever will come and try to fix them etc...

some type of jammers etc... with chance to jam sentry guns

and would req a lot so lots of ppl would have to give up some slots to do this :)

and this should only be possible .4 and lower :)


Lola
Gallente
Posted - 2003.07.09 09:26:00 - [103]
 

Anyone who doesn't like Cheer Bear is pathetic... duh.

Anyone who doesn't like jokes is pathetic... duh

Anyone who doesn't understand sarcasm is pathetic... duh

Chill out dude. The fact you choose that sig shows you empathize with someone who is very frustrated. (or that you liked that movie, so do I) I'm just trying to bring some laughter to a board that has a lot of people at each other throats. I know the best PvP in this game is on the forums but you don't have to take everything so seriously. We are in fact talking about a video game.

Athule Snanm
Amarr
Rien Ici
Posted - 2003.07.09 10:11:00 - [104]
 

Unquestionably the risk balance has gone too far towards safety. However, before it was completely in the opposite direction. If pirating so was terribly hard and unrewarding financially then why were pirate corps usually in the first in line for the best kit? Pirates were effectively farming the choke points with minimal risk if they were paying attention.

Basically I feel the addition of all the sentry guns everywhere was wrong. They should have started by adding them to 0.4 systems and seen how it went down, and continued until they reached some sort of equilibrium.

The ideal solution would be to allow different warp distances and angles, that way an indi pilot could choose between a long distance from a gate, and thus a slow run but the opportunity to escape, or a short distance and risk getting ambushed. Once an indi is in a system pirates could easily warp to both gates and attempt to seal the system. There would then be some skill for both parties in choosing whether or not to engage.

Having said all that though - whilst pirating is obviously more difficult than it used to be, I don't understand how it's impossible for them to continue their 'trade'. Last night I was in a 0.0 system where there was oodles of indis in a robo pickup point (at 1am GMT for all those people who say that you need to be there just after downtime) and several pirates (Gauss, Syco and Morpheus). Needless to say I won't be going back there now, but no attempt appeared to have been made on any of the indis or myself (I was actually there scouting to see where the top nanofibers were getting dropped). Why not sit someone outside the station and cargo scan them? Leave someone else a few trips down the route back to Empire space where robos get sold and hey presto. No stations for many hops and an indi with a hold full of robos is unlikely to escape.

And how about another suggestion for pirates - I've seen pirates go through high-sec space frequently, so even if they can't stop for long they can at least travel. Why not make a note of all the faulty jump gates? I constantly see indis wallowing aimlessly with the pilot clearly AFK. Surely a team of pirates with good equipment could fry that indi in seconds and grab the loot before moving on?

Honestly, you may have to expend more effort than simply watching local for RUS to appear, but I'd hardly think that pirating options are dead. Yes, it's too difficult now but it isn't the silly carebearish scenario you seem to be making out for yourselves. The gate guns may have physically curtailed your activities - but they had a much more marked effect, they have broken your morale.


Edited by: Athule Snanm on 09/07/2003 10:12:57

Nyarlathotep
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2003.07.09 12:41:00 - [105]
 

"1. CCP built PKing and pirating into the game. Read the back of the box. Look at the modules that exist - e.g. passive targetting, etc. The game was advertised as a "hard core PK" game. People in pirate corps took this and ran with it. CCP then pulled the rug out from under them. This is absolutely no different than if they said, well we think empire space is too safe. Everything is now 0.0 in the next patch with no warning. How much screaming would the "carebears" be doing then? Though you may disagree with the pirates' "morals," the fact is they were playing they game as it was built. Their subscription fees entitle them to just as much consideration from CCP as yours do. You can say, "but they were exploiting!!! blah blah." That may have been true for a few isolated incidents, but I certainly never ran into any of those cases - all of my dealings with pirates were "straight up." And a few isolated incidents should have been handled as such, not by changing the structure of the entire game world."

I totaly agree with that and with the post who started this thread.



The sentry gun in 0.4 and below make no sens for the PVP and pirate aspect of the game. The way it is now, the pvp system work exactly like all the other kind of mmrpg where you a have a black and white protection system. However, in EVE its a bit worst since the game design havent been build that way. In other mmrpg you have thing to do everywhere, but in EVE if i am push only to 0.0 space to do pirate action, then i am drag into a zone where no one is, so in theory i can do pirate, but in practice since there is almost nobody there it is not possible to play fully this kind of professsion. I am not saying we should go in 1.0 sector, but the 0.4 and bellow was fair and reasonable for everyone, for every kind of player gameplay.

Also, I think the main problem is that carebear dont collaborate and play in team, with result that CCP do all the job mega corporation should be able to do by their self. If CCP provide automaticly all the security in the space, the players and corporation will never start to works to provide it, because it will be already there.

Maarek Steele
Gallente
GalTech Heavy Industries
Posted - 2003.07.09 13:00:00 - [106]
 

Athule, pirates generally were the ones with the best kit first for fighting/piracy because thats what they do. NPC hunters were the first to get the best kit for Wabbit Hunting, Traders were the first to get the best kit for trading. That's hardly a compelling argument for why piracy was unbalanced.

Athule Snanm
Amarr
Rien Ici
Posted - 2003.07.09 14:33:00 - [107]
 

Hmmm...and I guess the people trading and mining wouldn't have liked a battleship or a cruiser decked out with all the best stuff? The point is pirating was not exactly a dead duck regarding making money - and it was happening in a very easy manner for pirates, all the trade was going to them. In my own case I was hit by pirates twice in total, both times through not paying attention. Neither time was there much interaction from the pirates other than opening fire. In the first case I was killed then podded with no interaction either before, during or after, luckily I was only carrying junk at the end of the day (some harvester drones) but the whole experience was just like getting killed by NPCs. I rather guess the same was true in the opposite direction. I expect most kills were done in the same manner - pirates farming the careless with minimal effort right in the middle of supposedly huge empires.

Well, although it is unbalanced unfairly against pirates at the moment, I would not really like to see a full return to the situation where pirates can farm players in empire space. If the trade isn't coming to the pirates then the pirates should go to the trade. Before traders had to expend effort to avoid being pirated - now both sides do, pirates need to expend effort and if they ever stop moaning about it they can still be successful. It should however be much easier to catch out the unwary outside empire space and also in some low sec systems in empire space. The old situation was moronic however.

Make PvP interesting by having both sides think - not swerve from one extreme to the other in play balance, that's my opinion.

Have fun
Finn

Maarek Steele
Gallente
GalTech Heavy Industries
Posted - 2003.07.09 14:46:00 - [108]
 

Athule, you're ignoring the point. One pirate corp got Battleships, which I'll remind you a non-pirate corp built first (TTI). I would hardly use that as an argument saying pirating was unbalanced when the vast majority of pirate corps are still in cruisers.

Jash Illian
Minmatar
Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.
Posted - 2003.07.09 20:04:00 - [109]
 

<< Well, although it is unbalanced unfairly against pirates at the moment, I would not really like to see a full return to the situation where pirates can farm players in empire space. If the trade isn't coming to the pirates then the pirates should go to the trade. Before traders had to expend effort to avoid being pirated - now both sides do, pirates need to expend effort and if they ever stop moaning about it they can still be successful. It should however be much easier to catch out the unwary outside empire space and also in some low sec systems in empire space. The old situation was moronic however. >>

You do realize that if a pirate destroys your vessel there is a 50/50 chance for every item being destroyed in the process. That means modules and cargo.

The only profit guaranteed that a pirate received was what you gave them. Either through jettison or isk transfer. So it's not all profit.

People vastly exaggerate the profit received from cargo. They lose their cargo and
1) Assume all of it survived the destruction
2) That happened with everyone the pirate destroyed
3) Most importantly, despite never breaking their blockade the pirates somehow managed to collect and offload all that cargo.

Pirates don't make obscene cash from cargo unless they bring and industrial to collect the cargo. And that slows them down further on offloading as well.

Fusco T
Posted - 2003.07.09 20:40:00 - [110]
 

While although it is easy to just use looted items in the calculation of fiscal return, it is not accurate.

Destruction of ship and modules etc.. is a real and measuarable fiscal effect. Although it doesn't directly increase a pirates coffers.

Also wether or not that is of concern to the pirates is irrelevant.

As for the mention of this being a 'hardcore PK' game I'm not sure where you got that because I saw this as more of an economic sim with a PvP element set in a futuristic space opera setting.

So how does the hardcore PK and PvE centric coexist?

Hampstah
Chosen Path
Lotka Volterra
Posted - 2003.07.09 22:21:00 - [111]
 

<<I know the best PvP in this game is on the forums but you don't have to take everything so seriously. We are in fact talking about a video game.">>

Lola, Can I use this in my Sig? :D

-

Edited by: Hampstah on 09/07/2003 22:22:05

Joshua Calvert
Caldari
Rule One
Posted - 2003.07.09 22:32:00 - [112]
 

You weren't using your sarcasm font, Lola.

My apologies :)

Jash Illian
Minmatar
Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.
Posted - 2003.07.09 23:05:00 - [113]
 

<< While although it is easy to just use looted items in the calculation of fiscal return, it is not accurate.

Destruction of ship and modules etc.. is a real and measuarable fiscal effect. Although it doesn't directly increase a pirates coffers.

Also wether or not that is of concern to the pirates is irrelevant.

As for the mention of this being a 'hardcore PK' game I'm not sure where you got that because I saw this as more of an economic sim with a PvP element set in a futuristic space opera setting.

So how does the hardcore PK and PvE centric coexist?
>>

People use the amount of Reward they perceive pirates to get as an arguement for the current situation with the sentry guns. If that is going to be used as an argument then the perception has to be replaced with the reality of the situation: Destroying your ship can mean the pirate receives absolutely nothing.

Now there is another issue that just occured to me: people are analyzing the Risk vs Reward of trade with active piracy based on the single successful intercept. That they ignore all previous reward gained from trade the minute they are intercepted. That's not valid either.

Say a person does 10 trade runs per day. Getting intercepted does not override the reward from the previous runs. If I took the same view while npc hunting, the 5 ships I've lost would have long since cancelled out any reward.

And, yes I'm fully aware a person can be completely wiped out from a single intercept. People that invest everything in a single ship or cargo have only themselves to blame. If I had invested everything in any of those 5 ships, I would have myself to blame when I lost them. The pirates are not responsible for other player's irresponsibility

Lola
Gallente
Posted - 2003.07.09 23:15:00 - [114]
 

Joshua, how do I do it? You made your text purple. Do I just use regular HTML? I could have pretty pink text for my favorite care bear CHEER BEAR :-D I think CHEER BEAR is Gallente.


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