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Captin Biltmore
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2005.04.28 03:11:00 - [1]
 

I've been doing a LOT of testing with target painters. Now these things ROCK in pvp, but they don't seem to work against NPC's at all. My corp mates lock times don't go down at all, and my tracking on them doesn't seem improved either. Anyone else try these on NPC's?

Rex Martell
Caldari
Posted - 2005.04.28 11:29:00 - [2]
 

I have been testing Target Painter II on npc rats and it does not appear to make any defference. Crying or Very sad

Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2005.04.28 12:14:00 - [3]
 

Read this thread:

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=175021

and watch this video (750k Bs + 3 cruisers - killed in under 2 mins at 5km jump in range using BEAMS)

http://www.eve-files.com/media/corp/PIE/Spawn.wmv


Cilppiz
FinFleet
Posted - 2005.04.28 12:31:00 - [4]
 

Hard to say, atleast it looks like I can hit frigs/droids better with my 800mm but when it comes to cruisers and interceptors I cant see any difference.

PS: Im currently usin 2x Named Tracking Comp + Target Painter II

Zyrla Bladestorm
Minmatar
Foundation
R0ADKILL
Posted - 2005.04.28 13:03:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Zyrla Bladestorm on 28/04/2005 13:02:55
frigate signiture radius = 40
frigate painted with a painter II = 60

Battleship guns scan res (intended target size) = 400

Still a slight difference ;) (10% -> 15% intended target size)

More noticeable with a cruiser would be 120 * 1.5 = 180 (so thats 30% -> 45%)

A second target painter II would make it 10 -> 22.5% on the frigate, 30 -> 67.5% on the cruiser.

A third target painter II would make it 10 -> 33.75% on the frigate, 30 -> 101.25% on the cruiser

This is all assuming they work properly on npc's of course. (One would hope so, although considering the bugs that slipped through on them so far I guess not surprising)

Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2005.04.28 15:55:00 - [6]
 

As demonstrated with that video I have two x TP II on my Apoc.

Target painter II + my skills = 80% sig radius bonus

So

Standard Frig = 40 sig radius

2 x TPII = 40 + 32 + 32 = 104 sig radius (almost cruiser size)

I still cannot hit these frigs with my BS guns. However due to their increased sig radius my drones are more effective. Large drones can now land hits on the NPC Inties. It is by no means insta death to frigs but it does speed things up a little bit...

Standard Cruiser = 120 sig radius

2 x TPII = 120 + 96 + 96 = 312 sig radius (almost BS size)

Cruisers at close range (under 10k) that would normally be missed can now be hit often and hard. The cruisers die fast...

Standard Battleship = 400 sig radius

2 x TPII = 400 + 320 + 320 = 1,040 sig radius (dreadnaught size Wink)

This doesn't make a big difference. My guns are slightly less likely to to miss and I tend to notice more 'excellent' hits.

So IMHO TPIIs are very handy for NPCing - more so than in PvP...

Zyrla Bladestorm
Minmatar
Foundation
R0ADKILL
Posted - 2005.04.28 16:04:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Hardin
As demonstrated with that video I have two x TP II on my Apoc.

Target painter II + my skills = 80% sig radius bonus

So

Standard Frig = 40 sig radius

2 x TPII = 40 + 32 + 32 = 104 sig radius (almost cruiser size)

I still cannot hit these frigs with my BS guns. However due to their increased sig radius my drones are more effective. Large drones can now land hits on the NPC Inties. It is by no means insta death to frigs but it does speed things up a little bit...

Standard Cruiser = 120 sig radius

2 x TPII = 120 + 96 + 96 = 312 sig radius (almost BS size)

Cruisers at close range (under 10k) that would normally be missed can now be hit often and hard. The cruisers die fast...

Standard Battleship = 400 sig radius

2 x TPII = 400 + 320 + 320 = 1,040 sig radius (dreadnaught size Wink)

This doesn't make a big difference. My guns are slightly less likely to to miss and I tend to notice more 'excellent' hits.

So IMHO TPIIs are very handy for NPCing - more so than in PvP...


multiples man, multiples Very Happy its the case that with almost anything in eve unless it explicitly states its a flat increase (speed increase on nanofibers for instance) then it works as a multiple.

so two 80% painter effect's give :

Frigate : 40 * 1.8 * 1.8 = 129.6
Cruiser : 120 * 1.8 * 1.8 = 388.8
Battleship : 400 * 1.8 * 1.8 = 1296

If stacking penalty exists for them as I believe someone mentioned in another thread, that reduces the effect of the second a little of course.

The thing that mostly makes them uber in pvp at the moment is the MWD bug, which causes the target painter to add the MWD sig penalty onto the target a second time instead of its own penalty, if it is already running an MWD (IE 40 * 6 * 6 = 1440)

Phades
Posted - 2005.04.29 03:50:00 - [8]
 

Better qyestion is that if the mwd+target painter thing is a bug, then are they doing a rework of the multipling multipliers effect that occurs within the game with everything else or are they going to make mwd a flat bonus for each ship type?

Roba
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2005.04.29 08:49:00 - [9]
 

Big diffrence with Angel battleships that orbit at close range.


In an apoc with mega beams, I had an alt account paint a 1m isk angel with 2 target paints 100% each (vigil gets 10 bonus from minmatar frig skill to painter effectivness and plus lvl 4 to another skill rekated).

I started scoring nothing less then excelents. I think they are pimp. I really saw a diffrence. Probalby pointless for rats like bloods and guristas. But with autocannon and blaster rats, they are nice.

Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2005.04.29 10:18:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Zyrla Bladestorm
Originally by: Hardin
As demonstrated with that video I have two x TP II on my Apoc.

Target painter II + my skills = 80% sig radius bonus

So

Standard Frig = 40 sig radius

2 x TPII = 40 + 32 + 32 = 104 sig radius (almost cruiser size)

I still cannot hit these frigs with my BS guns. However due to their increased sig radius my drones are more effective. Large drones can now land hits on the NPC Inties. It is by no means insta death to frigs but it does speed things up a little bit...

Standard Cruiser = 120 sig radius

2 x TPII = 120 + 96 + 96 = 312 sig radius (almost BS size)

Cruisers at close range (under 10k) that would normally be missed can now be hit often and hard. The cruisers die fast...

Standard Battleship = 400 sig radius

2 x TPII = 400 + 320 + 320 = 1,040 sig radius (dreadnaught size Wink)

This doesn't make a big difference. My guns are slightly less likely to to miss and I tend to notice more 'excellent' hits.

So IMHO TPIIs are very handy for NPCing - more so than in PvP...


multiples man, multiples Very Happy its the case that with almost anything in eve unless it explicitly states its a flat increase (speed increase on nanofibers for instance) then it works as a multiple.

so two 80% painter effect's give :

Frigate : 40 * 1.8 * 1.8 = 129.6
Cruiser : 120 * 1.8 * 1.8 = 388.8
Battleship : 400 * 1.8 * 1.8 = 1296

If stacking penalty exists for them as I believe someone mentioned in another thread, that reduces the effect of the second a little of course.

The thing that mostly makes them uber in pvp at the moment is the MWD bug, which causes the target painter to add the MWD sig penalty onto the target a second time instead of its own penalty, if it is already running an MWD (IE 40 * 6 * 6 = 1440)


No my tests on my corp m8s indicate that you get the bonus only of the ORIGINAL SHIP SIZE for each Target Painter Activated (Or original ships size + MWD if MWD is activated)

So as I indicated above the bonus on a frig with 40 sig radius is

40 + 32 + 32 = 104

not

40 x 1.8 (72) x 1.8 = 129.6

As I said I got these figures from testing on corp m8s frigs and doing the math...

Also revealed from the testing is that no stacking penalty applies.

However as the Target Painter bonus only applies to the original sig radius for each and every TP activated then you could say that they there is a built in penalty...




Zyrla Bladestorm
Minmatar
Foundation
R0ADKILL
Posted - 2005.04.29 10:36:00 - [11]
 

Ok, strange, but good. I like the idea myself, solves the multiplicative problem

Shocky
Galactic Services Cartel
Posted - 2005.04.29 11:49:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Zyrla Bladestorm
Ok, strange, but good. I like the idea myself, solves the multiplicative problem


I have tried the t1 painter on a number of frigates and cruiser npcs to test and it didnt make the slightest bit of difference even with 3 of them.

Buraken v2
Spontaneous Defenestration
Posted - 2005.04.29 11:56:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Hardin
Read this thread:

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=175021

and watch this video (750k Bs + 3 cruisers - killed in under 2 mins at 5km jump in range using BEAMS)

http://www.eve-files.com/media/corp/PIE/Spawn.wmv




I must be totaly ******ed or something, but i can't for the life of me understand how the guy in the video could fit 8 mega beams? and he doesnt even use a RCU :S:S

Mega beam = 3250pg right?
3250 x 8 = 26000

Apocalypse PG 19500 x 1.25(eng lvl5) = 24375

see the difference? could someone clear me up here? >_< the dude uses 1 armor rep, 2 hardeners and 4 HS, so no room for a RCU there, i think i'm gong nuts :|

Loka
Gallente
adeptus gattacus
Lotka Volterra
Posted - 2005.04.29 12:08:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Loka on 29/04/2005 12:15:12
Edited by: Loka on 29/04/2005 12:08:05
Originally by: Shocky
Originally by: Zyrla Bladestorm
Ok, strange, but good. I like the idea myself, solves the multiplicative problem


I have tried the t1 painter on a number of frigates and cruiser npcs to test and it didnt make the slightest bit of difference even with 3 of them.


1 Targetpainter Tech 1 = 25% sig boost
1 Targetpainter Tech 2 = 50% sig boost
-> 1 Tech2 = 2 Tech1 witout Penalty.

Now take into account, that someone has lvl 3 Signatur Focusing -> Tech 2 = 76% sig boost -> 3x Tech 1

So if someone is talking about 2x Tech 2 Targetpainter, you would have to fit at least 6 Tech 1 Targetpaint to get similiar effects. And then you have stacking penalty, which the other will suffer less. So lets say you need to fit 7-8 Targetpaint Tech 1 to get same results as someone with lvl 3 Signatur Focusing lvl 3, only using 2x Tech 2 Targetpainter !!!!

Loka
Gallente
adeptus gattacus
Lotka Volterra
Posted - 2005.04.29 12:12:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Loka on 29/04/2005 12:13:03
Originally by: Buraken v2
I must be totaly ******ed or something, but i can't for the life of me understand how the guy in the video could fit 8 mega beams? and he doesnt even use a RCU :S:S


He refered of using BEAMS, not Megabeams. This he wrote here.
His Hi-Slots were filled with Dual Heavy Beams II not Mega Beams!

Originally by: Hardin
Has anybody tried them on NPC's
Actually They have. This is a copy of a post I made on PIE boards last night:

Just made this short video to highlight the loveliness of Target painter II

It shows Siobhan's Apoc destroying a 750K Sansha Lord and 3 Escort cruisers
after arriving at just 4km from the Sansha's in a BEAM equipped ship.

The video is 1.35 and I warped in just about 10 seconds before this video starts...

http://www.eve-files.com/media/corp/PIE/Spawn.wmv

The Target Painter II means I can hit even cruisers hard at 4km with Dual Heavy BEAMS... Who cares about Pulse nerf when you can do this with BEAMS and Target Painters...

For the record I had two Target Painter IIs on my Apoc and I have the Target Painting skill at IV and the Signature Focusing skill at III when I made the vid... I have found that the two target painters also make your drones A LOT more effective against NPC ceptors. Even Sansha Daemons die reasonably quick when target painted...

My setup in this vid:

High slots:
8 x DHB II with multifrequency

Mid slots:
2 x Target Painter II, 1 x Sensor Booster II, 1 x Large Cap Injector

Low slots:
1 x Large Repper, 1 x Thermic and 1 x EM Hardener, 4 x Heat Sink II

Drones
7 x Valkyrie 3 x Wasp

Music = Rage Against The Machine - Killing In The Name Of....


Buraken v2
Spontaneous Defenestration
Posted - 2005.04.29 13:04:00 - [16]
 

NOW IT ALL MAKES SENCE :D

Shocky
Galactic Services Cartel
Posted - 2005.04.29 15:05:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Buraken v2
NOW IT ALL MAKES SENCE :D


Hmm, Yeah that does make sence.Neutral




/me pretends to understand in fear of flamage.


 

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