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Mr Jay
Amarr
Mafia Redux
Posted - 2005.04.25 23:42:00 - [1]
 

So good I had to make a thread about it.

A corp mate told me to try it on my 'ceptor. Having Gallente 'ceptors, my optimal is very low (blasters), but with a target painter, I can orbit at 500m, MWD and still hit my target for some nice damage.

Well worth it, in my opinion.

Anyone tried a Gankageddon with target painters in the mids?

Gierling
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2005.04.25 23:58:00 - [2]
 

Scorp with 8 will turn a pod into a moon.

DrunkenOne
Unknown Soldiers
B O R G
Posted - 2005.04.26 00:44:00 - [3]
 

They are now up there with warp stabs as the most overpowered mods in the game IMO.

Uglious
Posted - 2005.04.26 07:56:00 - [4]
 

Target painters ROCK. I can actually use a Tempest to do decent damage at short range to smaller ships. Yay!Shocked

Juan Andalusian
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.04.26 08:35:00 - [5]
 

Target Painter aka Imbalanc0rs!

Raem Civrie
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2005.04.26 08:41:00 - [6]
 

Guy I know tried them on an Ishtar with 5 painters. Apparently didn't make much of a difference. Just reinforces my belief that they belong on frigates, for frigates.

Sessho Seki
Posted - 2005.04.26 09:16:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: DrunkenOne
They are now up there with warp stabs as the most overpowered mods in the game IMO.


<in the voice of Steve Irwin: the crocodile hunter>

crikey! look 'ere.

that was the wailing cry of the "EVE online whiner", they typically only cry out when they don't know what they are talking about and are upset that they are too incapable of actually getting good enough to overcome BETTER players.

Don’t worry though; they are harmless since they can’t stop whining about things that aren’t broken long enough to actually make themselves better than whatever they want to attack.

This particular example apparently isn’t capable of thinking about using more or more effective warp scrambling attacks, so he whines that the counter to his weapon is overpowered, which only shows how feeble a player he apparently is.

Often these “whining cries” go out shortly after a failed attempt at killing a better player, so the “EVE online whiner” takes flight to the nearest message board to cry out and notify the world of how incapable a player they are by claiming an item is overpowered since they are too inept to over come it.

Fortunately, there are plenty of other players out there that do know what they are doing which often causes fits for the “EVE online whiner” but no worries mate, that just forces the “EVE online whiner” to be good or be quiet.

Okeanos
Posted - 2005.04.26 09:29:00 - [8]
 

Quote:
This particular example apparently isn’t capable of thinking about using more or more effective warp scrambling attacks, so he whines that the counter to his weapon is overpowered, which only shows how feeble a player he apparently is.


Warp scrambling attacks? Counter to his weapon?

Hello?! sense pls? make some.

Quote:
they are too inept to over come it.


Overcome this:

Vigil sig radis before painted: 44m
vigil sig radius before painted with mwd running: 264m
Vigil sig radis while painted: 55m
Vigil sig radis while painted with mwd running: 1584m

the attribute info says 25% signature penalty so 1.25*264 = 330m this is apparently incorrect ...

Overcome the skill requirements of tech II painter being identical to tech I.

Now Stfu.

Gariuys
Evil Strangers Inc.
Posted - 2005.04.26 09:37:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Okeanos
Quote:
This particular example apparently isn’t capable of thinking about using more or more effective warp scrambling attacks, so he whines that the counter to his weapon is overpowered, which only shows how feeble a player he apparently is.


Warp scrambling attacks? Counter to his weapon?

Hello?! sense pls? make some.

Quote:
they are too inept to over come it.


Overcome this:

Vigil sig radis before painted: 44m
vigil sig radius before painted with mwd running: 264m
Vigil sig radis while painted: 55m
Vigil sig radis while painted with mwd running: 1584m

the attribute info says 25% signature penalty so 1.25*264 = 330m this is apparently incorrect ...

Overcome the skill requirements of tech II painter being identical to tech I.

Now Stfu.


Does anyone bother to read the bloody posts they're flaming????

onardian
Posted - 2005.04.26 09:41:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: onardian on 26/04/2005 09:41:16
He flamed the guy who said that Target Painters are overpowered so i flamed him back, since i agree that the Target Painter is overpowered and bugged, in fact i don't even think it needs to be ingame.

What was your point?

EDIT: Argh, damn alt... This post is by OKEANOS.

The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2005.04.26 09:42:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Okeanos
Quote:
This particular example apparently isn’t capable of thinking about using more or more effective warp scrambling attacks, so he whines that the counter to his weapon is overpowered, which only shows how feeble a player he apparently is.


Warp scrambling attacks? Counter to his weapon?

Hello?! sense pls? make some.




WCS are a counter to warp scramblers - makes sense even if you disagree with the point.

Quote:

Quote:
they are too inept to over come it.


Overcome this:

Vigil sig radis before painted: 44m
vigil sig radius before painted with mwd running: 264m
Vigil sig radis while painted: 55m
Vigil sig radis while painted with mwd running: 1584m

the attribute info says 25% signature penalty so 1.25*264 = 330m this is apparently incorrect ...



Might seem so... but there is method in the madness somewhere... as 1584 is 264 + 500% (264x6). It's either a bug related to the interaction of the MWD sig increase formula and the TP sig increase formula or it is an undocumented feature of TPs. (I hope it is the former ofc.)

Quote:

Overcome the skill requirements of tech II painter being identical to tech I.



They're not in game are they? Placeholder or error really. Sooner or later a TP II will require painting IV. (Just as happened to the incorrectly reqqed T2 Large Shield Extender.)

Cosmo

Okeanos
Posted - 2005.04.26 09:51:00 - [12]
 

Quote:
WCS are a counter to warp scramblers - makes sense even if you disagree with the point.


If Gariyus and the other dude were refferring to this, then indeed i misunderstood and apologize for the mix up.

However this is a thread discussing Target painters and everything i said about them stands.

Quote:
Might seem so... but there is method in the madness somewhere... as 1584 is 264 + 500% (264x6). It's either a bug related to the interaction of the MWD sig increase formula and the TP sig increase formula or it is an undocumented feature of TPs. (I hope it is the former ofc.)


Hell, it could be exactly as CCP intended it, do the numbers seem balanced to you?

Quote:
They're not in game are they? Placeholder or error really. Sooner or later a TP II will require painting IV. (Just as happened to the incorrectly reqqed T2 Large Shield Extender.)


They are very much ingame. Or at least a certain quantity is, which is even worse.

Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
Cruel Intentions
Posted - 2005.04.26 10:00:00 - [13]
 

Target Painters are extremely powerful, but they are not going to replace tracking computers entirely. The bug, or unbalance, with the interaction between target painters and microwarp drives needs to be removed.
At the same time, Target Painters have a good hold on webbifiers, but then again... it's not quite the same and webs are greatly needed in certain situations.

As said, the interaction between TP and MWD needs to be fixed. Otherwise the target painters are rather nifty.
Target Painter II are just mean. Believe me.

Rex Martell
Caldari
Posted - 2005.04.26 10:04:00 - [14]
 

Has anybody tried them on NPC's

I have but it was a limited trial and didn't notice much if any difference.

Sessho Seki
Posted - 2005.04.26 10:52:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Okeanos
Quote:
This particular example apparently isn’t capable of thinking about using more or more effective warp scrambling attacks, so he whines that the counter to his weapon is overpowered, which only shows how feeble a player he apparently is.


Warp scrambling attacks? Counter to his weapon?

Hello?! sense pls? make some.

Quote:
they are too inept to over come it.


Overcome this:

Vigil sig radis before painted: 44m
vigil sig radius before painted with mwd running: 264m
Vigil sig radis while painted: 55m
Vigil sig radis while painted with mwd running: 1584m

the attribute info says 25% signature penalty so 1.25*264 = 330m this is apparently incorrect ...

Overcome the skill requirements of tech II painter being identical to tech I.

Now Stfu.


WAAAAAAAAAAAA little inept ganker can't make a smarter player stay and be killed, BOOO HOOO!

cry me a river.

do us all a favor, when you learn what you're talking about, come back and apologise, you "attack" his warp and he "defends" his warp. passively or actively it is still attack and defense, just because you can't wrap your mind around the concept doesn't mean the rest of us are as "limited" as you are.

AS I WAS SAYING ABOUT THE MISGUIDED PERSON WHO THINKS WCS ARE OVERPOWERED

if the target is better (read that as SMARTER) than you, the only problem there is that you're either too weak or too mentally feeble to understand WHY you're being outclassed.

if he gets away that's not his fault, it's not the game's fault, and it's not the module's fault, that's entirely YOUR fault, because there isn't a problem with WCS that you couldn't counter if you weren't either LAZY or INCAPABLE.

so which is it?

are you LAZY or are you INCAPABLE?

also, you obviously don’t realize the post was not in reference to the target painter, but the other person’s obviously limited understanding of warp scrambling and warp core stabilization relationship(s).

If READING is beyond your reach, then please don’t do it, because that’s leading to you making a spectacle of yourself arguing on something COMPLETELY TERTIARY to what I was talking about and “correcting” the misguided person’s understanding of the supposedly overpowered WCS.

Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2005.04.26 11:13:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Hardin on 26/04/2005 11:14:22
Originally by: Rex Martell
Has anybody tried them on NPC's

I have but it was a limited trial and didn't notice much if any difference.


Actually They have. This is a copy of a post I made on PIE boards last night:

Just made this short video to highlight the loveliness of Target painter II

It shows Siobhan's Apoc destroying a 750K Sansha Lord and 3 Escort cruisers
after arriving at just 4km from the Sansha's in a BEAM equipped ship.

The video is 1.35 and I warped in just about 10 seconds before this video starts...

http://www.eve-files.com/media/corp/PIE/Spawn.wmv

The Target Painter II means I can hit even cruisers hard at 4km with Dual Heavy BEAMS... Who cares about Pulse nerf when you can do this with BEAMS and Target Painters...

For the record I had two Target Painter IIs on my Apoc and I have the Target Painting skill at IV and the Signature Focusing skill at III when I made the vid... I have found that the two target painters also make your drones A LOT more effective against NPC ceptors. Even Sansha Daemons die reasonably quick when target painted...

My setup in this vid:

High slots:
8 x DHB II with multifrequency

Mid slots:
2 x Target Painter II, 1 x Sensor Booster II, 1 x Large Cap Injector

Low slots:
1 x Large Repper, 1 x Thermic and 1 x EM Hardener, 4 x Heat Sink II

Drones
7 x Valkyrie 3 x Wasp

Music = Rage Against The Machine - Killing In The Name Of....

onardian
Posted - 2005.04.26 11:37:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: onardian on 26/04/2005 11:37:17
Originally by: Sessho Seki
also, you obviously don’t realize the post was not in reference to the target painter, but the other person’s obviously limited understanding of warp scrambling and warp core stabilization relationship(s).

If READING is beyond your reach, then please don’t do it, because that’s leading to you making a spectacle of yourself arguing on something COMPLETELY TERTIARY to what I was talking about and “correcting” the misguided person’s understanding of the supposedly overpowered WCS.


Nice rant, concerning reading comprehension i urge you to heed your own advise.

Hint: Read my comment after Cosmopolites.

EDIT: I really need to delete this Alt... :/ (OKEANOS POSTER)

Maggot
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2005.04.26 11:52:00 - [18]
 

WTS Megabeam II BPCs. Not to CVA of course ;)

These painters need adjusting quickly or everyone in little ships will be hiding under a rock.


ebil yar
Posted - 2005.04.26 12:07:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Maggot
WTS Megabeam II BPCs. Not to CVA of course ;)

These painters need adjusting quickly or everyone in little ships will be hiding under a rock.





Which is what they should be doing. Twisted Evil

Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2005.04.26 12:25:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Maggot
WTS Megabeam II BPCs. Not to CVA of course ;)

These painters need adjusting quickly or everyone in little ships will be hiding under a rock.




Not really Maggot...

TBH I have the sig bonus at 80% on both target painter IIs thanks to skills now.

I still cannot hit interceptors.

The sig radius on small ships is such that even 80% sig radius bonus still doesn't make a small target much bigger.

It does make it easier for drones to hit it... but again not in an insta kill way. Inties and frigs can avoid them as they do now.

I have used them in PvP a few times so far and the difference has been negligible. Although I am still waiting to surprise a close range blaster Thorax :)

The other aspect is that they do take up precious mid slots slots that can be used for other useful items like Sensor Booster II, Scramblers, Webbers, Tacking Comp II etc. I have found that you really need two Target Painters to see a difference.

They also cost 10 million each Shocked

So in PvP terms I am not sure how big an impact they will make...

Where they have made a MAJOR difference for me is in NPC hunting where you can warp in at 15km and hit cruisers and BS at ranges under the guns optimal. This means that you can pack high damage ammo and kill the spawns quickly before they really start eating into your own tank... Bear in mind that that was against mid-level spawns. I am not sure it would wok quite so well vs a 3 BS and escort spawn...

Twisted Evil


Bottled Brain
Posted - 2005.04.26 14:52:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Bottled Brain on 26/04/2005 14:52:56
The 1500 sig radius of a painted t1 frig is a 3.75 tracking multiplier for large turrets and makes them track like small ones.

Even if the 1000+ sig radius is only a display bug or a real bug and it will get fixed, the target painter is still the death of any cruiser regardless of the gun and any t1 mwd frig shot by medium turrets or high tracking large turrets at some range.

But probably everybody is too used to the bad survivability of cruisers to care.

Zyrla Bladestorm
Minmatar
Foundation
R0ADKILL
Posted - 2005.04.26 14:54:00 - [22]
 

I feel the following will probably happen to them Soon™ and they will probably be pretty balanced at that point.

Painter+MWD bug fixed
Tech II painter requiring skill IV (Or possible V, like a few modules now Shocked)
stacking penalty implemented on multiple target painters.

Uglious
Posted - 2005.04.26 15:20:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Zyrla Bladestorm
I feel the following will probably happen to them Soon™ and they will probably be pretty balanced at that point.

Painter+MWD bug fixed
Tech II painter requiring skill IV (Or possible V, like a few modules now Shocked)
stacking penalty implemented on multiple target painters.



Stacking penalties are already in place, at least if you put more than one on a single ship. I suspect if you paint with more than one ship, the penalty isn't there. Here is a table of the sig radius I got for 0-5 t2 painters (level 1 painting skill):

number radius
0 460
1 690
2 909
3 1159
4 1448
5 1784

With only 3 of these, I was able to hit a MWD'ed vigil orbiting at 2.5km with 1200mm scouts, and doing nice dot compared with before against rats.

Sessho Seki
Posted - 2005.04.26 19:35:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: onardian
Edited by: onardian on 26/04/2005 11:37:17

Nice rant, concerning reading comprehension i urge you to heed your own advise.

Hint: Read my comment after Cosmopolites.

EDIT: I really need to delete this Alt... :/ (OKEANOS POSTER)


lol so you're going to lecture ME on my reading comprehension, when it is YOUR short coming to read and comprehend that is at fault?

don't presume to lay your burdon of feeble minded babbling at my door step thank you, I have no use for your lacking abilities.

and a rant indeed it was to set you straight and properly file you in your proper place, that being squarely in the box of not knowing what you're talking about and it shows.

thank you and have a nice day

Noriath
Posted - 2005.04.26 22:28:00 - [25]
 

Why were target painters even added to the game? I thought we were trying to get away from giant ships wtfpwning everything that's smaller then them in one volley - so why in the blazes did the devs add a module that counters every effort in that direction?!

Uglious
Posted - 2005.04.26 23:39:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Noriath
Why were target painters even added to the game? I thought we were trying to get away from giant ships wtfpwning everything that's smaller then them in one volley - so why in the blazes did the devs add a module that counters every effort in that direction?!


Well, at least my tempest can actually hit things without being 90km away. Used to be, I couldn't hit anything smaller than a BS. Now, I can hit anything I make LOOK as large as a BS. :)

Captin Biltmore
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2005.04.26 23:54:00 - [27]
 

I had a nice little test...apoc with dual heavy pulse lasers and multifrquency crystals in the highs and 4 target painters in the mids. I had a corpy orbit me at 2500 in a vigil with a mwd. It was instadeath....only 6 of my lasers fired!!! That was with NO damage mods :). Maybe I got lucky...maybe I didn't, but I had 5 hardeners and 2 armor reps in the lows, so I had a full tank too :)

All of my ships larger than a frig has at least one of these fitted at all times.

Oh, in pvp we had 1 sniper at 100km off the gate and I was on the gate in my maller. Covert ops ship warped in at 60km from the oppisite side of the gate as our sniper (so 160km from him). Cheeky pilot uncloaked. I locked him and painted him. Our sniper was hitting him even though he was 28km past his falloff (he was only hitting for like 10-20hp though).

Cracken
Gallente
Posted - 2005.04.27 02:49:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Cracken on 27/04/2005 02:49:25
LOl it took how long a week or less for a whine thread too start omg someone used tactics too kill my ceptor sploit!!!

And no the mwd sig radius is NOT a bug first the target ships sig rad is multiplied by the mwd then the painter modifies the sig. radius yet again so you end up with a target the size of a station.

Deileon
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2005.04.27 03:04:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Cracken
Edited by: Cracken on 27/04/2005 02:49:25And no the mwd sig radius is NOT a bug first the target ships sig rad is multiplied by the mwd then the painter modifies the sig. radius yet again so you end up with a target the size of a station.


Uh. Wrong. The painter is obviously (and wrongly) adding a second MWD-sig penalty to the ship. That's the only way the numbers can come out how they are coming out, i.e. 25X or so. I'm sure it will be fixed [SOON(tm)].

Well about 25 days till I fly my apoc again. No sense agonizing over painter vs tracking comp. I'll just see how bad painters are nerfed by then.

Okeanos
Posted - 2005.04.27 07:54:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Sessho Seki
Originally by: onardian
Edited by: onardian on 26/04/2005 11:37:17

Nice rant, concerning reading comprehension i urge you to heed your own advise.

Hint: Read my comment after Cosmopolites.

EDIT: I really need to delete this Alt... :/ (OKEANOS POSTER)


lol so you're going to lecture ME on my reading comprehension, when it is YOUR short coming to read and comprehend that is at fault?

don't presume to lay your burdon of feeble minded babbling at my door step thank you, I have no use for your lacking abilities.

and a rant indeed it was to set you straight and properly file you in your proper place, that being squarely in the box of not knowing what you're talking about and it shows.

thank you and have a nice day


Rarely have i seen someone display such ignorance and stupidity so freely and with such ease. The rudeness that accompanies those 2 traits is further evidence that your mental capacity does not surpass that of a toad.

As the sole person in this thread about Target Painters who came and ranted about the WCS just because someone used the Warp Core Stab in a comparison, you have identified your self as a complete and utter buffoon.

It's also remarkable how you completely ignore an immediate apology to pursue your random crap spewing activities which you so seem to enjoy, considering i pointed you back at the apology post... even after your originally missed it.

I am sure though that your complete idiotic and moronic presence serves as a beacon of hope for all mankind, for i am sure that when people see that such an intelectual midget is able of applying, connecting and using the forums of an online electronic game such as EVE they feel new hope knowing that things can't be that bad for them.

Toodles.


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