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blankseplocked Cutting off roleplay possibilites in Empire Space
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Posted - 2003.07.04 02:27:00 - [1]


Among other things my small corp has been providing was a blackmail service.

We managed it to make all our customers happy and only had to destroy one Frigate in 0.4 Empire Space so far in order to get paid by the blackmail victims.

Once you were nice and helped us to destroy an opposing force by using your sentry guns to destroy a Cruiser and incoming Police forces to destroy a frigate.

Now we realized, that with the new security model in the Empire Space we can't offer this service anylonger to our customers.

We would like to become traders now and ask herewith for an amnesty. Could you please tell me the party, which I have to contact in order to get my security rating reseted. I would even accept a death sentence as long as my clone can carry on. Of course I would be able to pay a given amout of ISK to help you with that issue.

This would help both of us. You wouldn't have to shoot me everytime I try to leave the station and could use your resources for something more useful than shooting a harmelss criminal. And I could trade some antibiotics in order to help out some ill children in the empire space.

I await your answer with hope.

Best reagards,

Curious Orange
Posted - 2003.07.04 02:33:00 - [2]

Dear Molly,

CONCORD is pleased that you have decided to learn from your previous errant behaviour.

In CONCORD we believe that actions speak louder than words or indeed money. Accordingly for each day that you stay out of trouble we will happily adjust your security status upwards by 0.1. In no time at all you will be back on your feet as a recognized law abiding citizen serving the greater community.

Kind regards
CONCORD (Unapproved representative)

Posted - 2003.07.04 02:37:00 - [3]

Molly you are gonna get a lotta flames for what you are saying here.

But for what it is worth, I agree with you.

I think it is only fair that if they change the rules in the middle of the game that players have an oppourtunity to choose their path according to the new rules.

Yeah yeah "Your st00pid peeekay and you git wut you deserves now!! hah!! you suck!"

But honestly, everyone that requests it should be allowed to be reset in their sec.

Posted - 2003.07.04 02:56:00 - [4]

At least the stupid system should allow me to shoot back at someone who attacked me 30 seconds before in an other system.

That's where I got most of my negative security rating.

Oh wait, defending yourself is a crime too!

Posted - 2003.07.04 02:58:00 - [5]

Anything you do is a crime.

mine, and mind your own business!


Posted - 2003.07.04 03:04:00 - [6]

I will, just bought antibiotics for 7 millions which will give me 8,3 millions after 8 jumps being afk. As soon as my alt can fly a bestower :P.

I will be doing it for 55 days until the sec rating of this char is 0.0.

Since this char has a brilliant CONCORD faction rating, I'll try to join the CONCORD corp then and camp some gates. Oh wait, no pirates there...

Posted - 2003.07.04 03:31:00 - [7]

Yeah, I thought about the prospect of letting my sec status reset, but really, the only point would be for me to go in to high sec space.

And there really isn't aything there for me that I cant easily make an alt to go pick up for me.

Quam Singulari
Lotka Volterra
Posted - 2003.07.04 07:07:00 - [8]

Very good point.. but one slight flaw on the "30 seconds ago in another system" problem..

In the real world, at least in the US.. if a man comes into your home and threatens you, you can shoot him.. but also, in that same "civilized" world.. if he flees and you chase him and keep firing, now you have become the bad guy..

Of course, perhaps they chased you instead of you chasing them.. but I'm sure you see my point.. "civilized" "law-abiding" citizens don't chase attackers.. they defend themselves to an extent, but no further..

Then again, I've had my fair share of sec hits attacking people first.. and I say screw em all. ;)

CCP Pann

Posted - 2003.07.04 07:16:00 - [9]

There are ways for players to raise their security status themselves. We will not reset them for you.

Max Power
Posted - 2003.07.04 08:05:00 - [10]

Not that I'm aware of, Pann.

You can:
1. Wait - gets you 0.1 sec per day
2. Kill NPC pirates, 0.00001 per kill
3. Get a -2 sec rating reset by an agent to -1

Any of these still mean that to recover from a -10 sec rating will take at least 100 days.

At the start of the game you could probably recover from a bad sec rating within a couple of days. Now it takes months. The penalty that players based their careers on has changed and it is only fair that the devs accept this and offer some sort of reset. If those "reset" players choose to revert to their life of the crime the new penalties will slap them down sharpish.

No, I've never fired on a player and I know M0o are naughty but if CCP do this to one group of players it will do it to the rest of us sooner or later.

Either state how these players can get their sec ratings back in a reasonable amount of time or stop talking complete nonsense based on your personal predjudice against pirate corps.

Edited by: Max Power on 04/07/2003 08:08:08

Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
Posted - 2003.07.04 08:05:00 - [11]

Just shoot 62billion pirates. And you might get +0.1 Molly.

I still have +9.9 since I only pod and defend in 0.0 Anything higher I flee due to CONCORD crazyness.

The Merch
Posted - 2003.07.04 08:24:00 - [12]

Ok, you were knowingly committing crimes. You knew you were in the wrong in doing so, but you did so anyways. Now your complaining that your being held accountable for such actions ?

If your going to act the criminal in such an overt way don't complain when society at large wants your head for it. You seem to want all the benefits of being a criminal but none of the drawbacks, and sorry, it doesn't work like that anymore (and never should have). You act like you were duped, the victim, but you knew what you were doing was supposed to have consequences.

Posted - 2003.07.04 08:59:00 - [13]

It's not about 'commiting a crime' it's about the rules changing.

This is a game, and the rules of the game have changed while the game was in progress.

I sat down and evaluated the pros and cons of going negative. At the time I did this here is what I had:

I get to participate in PvP
I can redeem myself in a few days time

I could get a bounty on me
Lots of people hunting me down
Police shoot at me

And here is what it would be now

Participate in PvP

Could get a bounty.
Lots of people attacking
Sentry guns attacking
Stations attacking
Police attacking
Police scrambling
Police webifying
No chance of redemption (short of 100 days of not playing)
Not able enter space over .3
Not able to access agents.
Not able to perform agent missions

Personally, the only reason I play the game is for PvP, so I would end up negative anyway.

That's just me.

But as you can see, there is a lot more to consider now than there was a month ago, and it's not really fair to the people who have found themselves trapped in this situation but would have made other decisions if the current rules had been in place at the time they made them.

Edited by: Axelay on 04/07/2003 08:59:54

Republic Security Services
Posted - 2003.07.04 09:03:00 - [14]

Not able to access agents.
Not able to perform agent missions

I think you are wrong on this one, Agents exist in low security space, all you need is a good faction standing and they might say "hi" when pop into a station.

If you've been killing cops then you've probably got a good NPC Pirate faction standing (Angels, Sanshas, Bloods, etc).

Republic Security Services
Posted - 2003.07.04 09:05:00 - [15]

No chance of redemption (short of 100 days of not playing)

Isn't it 50 days, when you go above -0.5 then they stop shooting you on sight ?

Playboy Enterprises
Posted - 2003.07.04 16:32:00 - [16]

Molly? Didn't you quit?

Maarek Steele
GalTech Heavy Industries
Posted - 2003.07.04 16:43:00 - [17]


[There was no flaming, just The Truth, deal with it Carebear- Maarek]. At the moment there is no reasonable way to raise low security in game, nor is there a way to realistically engage in PvP without taking a dramatic hit (limiting corp wars to 3, and then the whole wait 24 hours). Are you sure you weren't a GM in a game called Jumpgate going by the name of Moll? You show the exact same quality.

Let me guess, you think there can be no PvP-RP or even Piracy based RP, right?

The rules changed in the middle of the game, there needs to be a security reset. Hell, if I bought a car and they changed the warranty on me 2 months after I bought it, I'd take it back and get my money returned, or take them to court.

Edited by: Maarek Steele on 04/07/2003 17:50:09

Posted - 2003.07.04 16:48:00 - [18]

There are some agents who can increase your security rating for a price. The problem, of course, is getting these agents activated for you so you can use them.

Bad Harlequin
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2003.07.04 16:51:00 - [19]

Pann, if you've read my posts you know how much sympathy my body contains for pirates thus far.

However, it IS possible that people missed the fact that system sec ratings were changed. I'm positive sec, but i was surprised at login. I don't know where the info was posted, i read patch notes (i thought) and i read news - but i missed it. Duh.

Since this was a game-mechanics thing, and not an event, like a deliberate IC reassessment of seclevels... people who are literally trapped in stations because exiting means getting blasted by the guns manned by the people sitting next to them as they freely roam INSIDE the station.... well, it's a bit silly.

If there's any way to verify that someone was where they are both before and after patch, they should be moved. They didn't do it; they didn't change anything; the universe shifted around them; and if i was say away IRL for a day or three, or busy, or working, or playing with my kid, and came back to find this, i'd have assumed that of COURSE a GM would move me.

I'm not sure why these pleas are being ignored. People keep saying "well you have options." I've yet to find them, especially for extremely low-sec people.

Of course, if what CCP really means is "screw you, you were warned," please at least be honest about it. If that's your decision, fine, but just tell us straight =8). I can handle any decision about your game except the one that involves feeding me a line.

Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2003.07.04 17:06:00 - [20]

Its prison, do the time :)

You have Alt chars to play with, no?

Posted - 2003.07.04 17:28:00 - [21]

You can leave empire space. With bookmarks, MWD or shield wards.

Anyway, instead of ****ing up the game beyond recongnition how about actually fixing something?

Like the high power slot weapon icons moving into space. Now I need 10 more additional seconds to set a smart bomb off. Or I could relog in the middle of a fight.

I could name dozens of annoying bugs in since retail and I could name dozens of new introduced bugs since retail.

I sometimes wonder if they are actually playing the game or only coding it.

And if they are aware of a freaking bug like the Surgical Strike bug they do not apply it to retail. Let's waste player's ships with it.

And what is the Polaris Bug Hunting team good for please?!


Posted - 2003.07.04 17:30:00 - [22]

*double post*

Edited by: Molly on 04/07/2003 17:30:24

Ferdinand Magellan
Posted - 2003.07.04 17:57:00 - [23]

For those of you complaining about the rules changing in the game grow up. Rules and laws DO change in real life as well.

If you don't want to live with the consequences of the new rules start a new character.

Life isn't always fair for everyone.

Athren Soulsteal
Intergalaxy Salvage And Repair
Posted - 2003.07.04 18:39:00 - [24]

"I think it is only fair that if they change the rules in the middle of the game that players have an oppourtunity to choose their path according to the new rules."

Where have you been since the game went gold (and even in the beta).

The rules have always been there, they were just not inforced.

The fact that you sec rating would dictate what you can or can not do has always been discussed.

You people that chose the path know from the start where it would lead.

what part of this FAQ (used to be on the main page) that was stated 1/21/03 do you not understand:

How does the security status and sector security status affect the gameplay?


The security status of an individual not only dictates what sectors are safe from police attention, but also what missions are available from agents. Having an extremely low security status can severly limit the amount and types of missions offered.

With time old sins fade away...well most of them anyway. Not being caught committing any illegal activity will in time raise your security status. But how much is recovered depends on the severity of the crime.

Example of criminal offenses in order of severity.
-Pod killing of an law enforcement personnel
-Destroying an law enforcement craft
-Pod Killing
-Destroying civilian craft
-Attacking law enforcement craft
-Attacking civilian craft
-Illegal cargo

or this one:

How will newbies be protected from players with malicious intent?

Newbies will have the option of staying in zones with high security levels, heavily patrolled by police ships and sentry guns. The zones with lower security levels will be more lucrative in terms of gains and opportunities, giving players the incentive to venture into more unsecure zones as they become stronger.

When ó and if ó they decide to take such a risk is up to each player. The most powerful characters of various professions, merchants, miners, pirates, bounty hunters etc. will all be able to maximize their profits in the uncontrolled regions where no laws apply, provided they are able to hold their own against other players who might profit from their deaths.


Read the part I bolded for you again, uncontroled (0.0) space is where pirates are supposed to play.

Shadow Tech Industries
Posted - 2003.07.04 19:11:00 - [25]

For those of you complaining about the rules changing in the game grow up. Rules and laws DO change in real life as well.

Yes, new laws are added. However you cannot be punished for past crimes with these new laws. This is called Expos Facto. We cannot be punished by laws that didn't exist at the time of our crimes. If CCP can't figure this out... well just add it to the list of things wrong with them...

Shadow Tech Industries
Posted - 2003.07.04 19:17:00 - [26]

Read the part I bolded for you again, uncontroled (0.0) space is where pirates are supposed to play.

Yes, pirates are suppose to live freely in 0.0. Funny how we take security hits out there still. Also, although we are suppose to live in 0.0 space, pirates historically go on raids. Where are we going to raid now? All of empire space has been locked off and protected by massive amounts of invulnerable and 100% accurate sentry guns. If we could kill the guns for a short time and set up a blockade this would be different. However all of the sentry guns are 0% fall off, 100% sweetspot. They never miss and always do 100+ damage each. Nothing can stand this for long...

Posted - 2003.07.04 19:49:00 - [27]

The Citizens demanded and the government supplied, it is that simple.

The way I see it, the laws have not changed, just the method of execution. Before the peace enforcers were slow to respond and easy to evade. Now, after a massive change was made, they are quick to respond and almost impossible to evade.

I donít like the new power given and I wish there was a prior notification regarding how they would act so people could prepare for the new measures.

What I can not figure out or justify in my mind is how the peace force can appear from no where and destroy a PC player for firing once upon another PC player, but have no reaction to the NPC pirates.

For instance, I happened to be in a .6 sector mining while being attacked by a single NPC pirate (Lots of Shield boosters so I could take the attack without having to flee). Then I saw one player (positive standing) shoot once at another player. Seconds later, Concorde shows locks down the aggressor and begins to shred their ship. They logged out I guess, because they never shot back and disappeared totally after being destroyed. Now, it is just me five (5) Concorde ships and one (1) NPC pirate attacking me in the system. I would assume the nice Concorde guys would take some sort of action towards the NPC, but instead I just watched them fly around for some time and then disappear.

Point being, if rules are going to be strict for PC players, the NPC vessels should have to follow the same such rules.

Eldon Tyrell
Posted - 2003.07.04 19:56:00 - [28]

When griefers like Axelay start whining then justice truly has been served. Well done CCP!

Joshua Calvert
Rule One
Posted - 2003.07.04 20:03:00 - [29]

I'm gonna agree with Axelay - seems a bit harsh for them to be trapped in one place while waiting for a blockade by stronger ships to be lifted.....oh, wait, haven't I heard this somewhere before?

Entropy inc
Posted - 2003.07.04 20:17:00 - [30]

Your not being punished for past crimes under these new laws, your just not having your reputation reset because of them. And its not the LAWS that have changed, killing people in high sec systems was always something you took a sec hit for. The difference is you cant recover your rep as quickly. So technically you have ALREADY been punished at the time of the crime, its just the process of rehabilitation has changed.

Plus this is great, its pirate whine and cheese time. Funny how the game dynamic changes and its a different group of people complaining isnt it? Maybe u lot should do what u told us to, shut up, stop whining and play. The rules are the rules, we thought they were unbalanced before and u just called us carebears, you think theyr unballanced now, well put some thought and effort into the game then.

Plus, axelay u make me roffle. You play the game for pvp? all ive seen u do is pod people in frigates. Not pvp is it? not some1 VERSUS some1 else. Its called just shooting ducks in a barrel. Gate camping in 0.4 sec systems pretty much garrantees you that not many people are going to have the sort of loadout you do. Therefore your not looking for exhilarating combat, your looking for people to bully. PvP is between consenting players, not one guy in a cruiser and one guy in an start ship trying to run away :/

Edited by: Avatar on 04/07/2003 20:19:12

Edited by: Avatar on 04/07/2003 20:22:29

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