open All Channels
seplocked Missions & Complexes
blankseplocked L4... Disposable Apoc?
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Author Topic

Deileon
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2005.03.14 21:03:00 - [1]
 

My friend and I have been wanting to start serious L4 kill missions in an Apoc, but have been trying to figure out how to minimize the cost of ship loss at the outset (while learning what the hell to do), but still have a useable ship. A 100% minimal setup would be:

Hi : 6xMega Pulse I(6M), 2xSiege (280K)
Med: 3xCap Rech I(75K), 1x100MN AB(150K)
Low: 2xLarge Armor Rep I(200K), 2xCap Relay I(36K), 3xArmor Hardener(~2M)

Cost: Apoc full insure+market difference = 39M, Minimal comps = 8.7M, total = 47.7M for minimal setup.

Now, looking at all the prices of named, seems like named weapons are out (even lowest named would add 66.7M to total cost of loss). But I am thinking at LEAST run 16.5% cap rechargers (750K each) and 660 Armor Reps (2M each) for a total loss cost of 53.7M. It ramps up sharply from there, and worthwhile named relays or hardeners don't seem to be in the ballpark either. But I could go to 17.25% Caprech and 690 carapace armor reps, for total loss cost of 71.4M.

With decent skills, do you think this ship has any chance of doing many L4s? Do you think doubling or tripling the component cost could double or triple chance of survival? If so, where to spend the money? I could afford most components, but I want to know what I'm up against before risking them.

Ruffio Sepico
Minmatar
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
Posted - 2005.03.14 21:34:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Deileon
My friend and I have been wanting to start serious L4 kill missions in an Apoc, but have been trying to figure out how to minimize the cost of ship loss at the outset (while learning what the hell to do), but still have a useable ship. A 100% minimal setup would be:

Hi : 6xMega Pulse I(6M), 2xSiege (280K)
Med: 3xCap Rech I(75K), 1x100MN AB(150K)
Low: 2xLarge Armor Rep I(200K), 2xCap Relay I(36K), 3xArmor Hardener(~2M)

Cost: Apoc full insure+market difference = 39M, Minimal comps = 8.7M, total = 47.7M for minimal setup.

Now, looking at all the prices of named, seems like named weapons are out (even lowest named would add 66.7M to total cost of loss). But I am thinking at LEAST run 16.5% cap rechargers (750K each) and 660 Armor Reps (2M each) for a total loss cost of 53.7M. It ramps up sharply from there, and worthwhile named relays or hardeners don't seem to be in the ballpark either. But I could go to 17.25% Caprech and 690 carapace armor reps, for total loss cost of 71.4M.

With decent skills, do you think this ship has any chance of doing many L4s? Do you think doubling or tripling the component cost could double or triple chance of survival? If so, where to spend the money? I could afford most components, but I want to know what I'm up against before risking them.


The best thing you can have is the experience and that you need to learn. You can fine do level 4 missions with stock tech1 items. Adding better modules, tech2 etc makes it more comfortable doing these missions, but not neccesary. I would skip the 100mn ab for something else though.

Odin Tahmorrex
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2005.03.14 22:36:00 - [3]
 

The cheapest way to learn in those complexes with that minimal setup is to train the Automatic Warp Alignment to level 5 Very Happy

As soon as you're in there, pick your planet, and align with it, and watch your armor like a hawk. Keep in mind that even aligned it takes a little bit, and don't get greedy for that last 10% structure on that spider drone to go down- just get the hell out before the rats are greedy for your last 10%.

Otherwise, I don't see why that setup wouldn't get the job done with a few warp ins and outs.

Deileon
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2005.03.14 22:59:00 - [4]
 

Yea I've done the pre-warp align thing before, but was worried everyone and their mom would scramble me in L4.

Hmm, would be heck getting around without an AB, but I suppose I can bookmark and come loot with a Nano-Hauler. Well, what in its place then? Web? More cap recharge? More armor repair? 4th hardener?

Odin Tahmorrex
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2005.03.14 23:40:00 - [5]
 

No warp scramblers in lvl 4 that I've found.
And a web isn't a bad Idea, I use them for the fast guys that torps cant catch, works really well. Heck without an AB? Call it a relaxation period between levels :)

o.

Shirei
Minmatar
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2005.03.15 00:15:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Odin Tahmorrex
No warp scramblers in lvl 4 that I've found.

There are some lvl 4 missions with scramblers.. For example the Damsel in Distress mission has a few rather annoying scrambler frigs that respawn quickly.

Odin Tahmorrex
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2005.03.15 00:58:00 - [7]
 

Weird, haven't seen those. Maybe the torps get them before they get me :)

Rex Martell
Caldari
Posted - 2005.03.16 12:21:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Deileon
My friend and I have been wanting to start serious L4 kill missions in an Apoc, but have been trying to figure out how to minimize the cost of ship loss at the outset (while learning what the hell to do), but still have a useable ship. A 100% minimal setup would be:

Hi : 6xMega Pulse I(6M), 2xSiege (280K)
Med: 3xCap Rech I(75K), 1x100MN AB(150K)
Low: 2xLarge Armor Rep I(200K), 2xCap Relay I(36K), 3xArmor Hardener(~2M)

Cost: Apoc full insure+market difference = 39M, Minimal comps = 8.7M, total = 47.7M for minimal setup.

Now, looking at all the prices of named, seems like named weapons are out (even lowest named would add 66.7M to total cost of loss). But I am thinking at LEAST run 16.5% cap rechargers (750K each) and 660 Armor Reps (2M each) for a total loss cost of 53.7M. It ramps up sharply from there, and worthwhile named relays or hardeners don't seem to be in the ballpark either. But I could go to 17.25% Caprech and 690 carapace armor reps, for total loss cost of 71.4M.

With decent skills, do you think this ship has any chance of doing many L4s? Do you think doubling or tripling the component cost could double or triple chance of survival? If so, where to spend the money? I could afford most components, but I want to know what I'm up against before risking them.


Use Cap Recharger II's if you can
Drop the Cap power relays for better resistances

Remember it is easier to tank damage you dont take - resistances are good.

Jim Steele
Dead By Dawn
Posted - 2005.03.16 15:22:00 - [9]
 

ALso id reccomend paying ~40mil for a pair of accomodations, they make repairing alot easier.

Cool

Later stuff once you get some money would mostlikely be named launchers and named or T2 megapulses, as well as some 55% hardners. After that officer loot 4 teh win.Exclamation

Deileon
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2005.03.21 18:52:00 - [10]
 

Hmm well. I don't really want to add the cost of Cap II's to destruction right now. Like I said, I have the money to run most anything except an officer loadout, the question isn't affording the initial investment but whether it's worth the cost of losing the stuff, perhaps repeatedly. Based on peoples suggestions I will up the cap recharge a bit to some better named, and pretty much try my initial idea of 3 hardeners and 2 large reps. I can afford to lose quite a few of these setups so plenty of room to learn. Cool

BATT
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2005.03.21 19:44:00 - [11]
 

set up your ship with Mods you can afford to loose..
not with mods you can afford to buy ;)



Soratah
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2005.03.21 19:50:00 - [12]
 

If I may make a suggestion.. I suggest your friend replaces that MWD with an AB or a webber. It would give you the most cap for tanking.

As for additional setup. Yeah med-slot cap rechargers are very important. But you can loot decent named ones of level 4 missions. So you can save money that way.

Apoc's are big tanks, anything that changes it's nature shortens it's life. If fighting inties or fast ships. Carry a webber just in case and swap out a siege for a heavy launcher. cant run from heavy missiles and small ships die quite quickly if hit.

Plus, on the note of scramblers. Yeah some level 4's have them, Beware of Mercenary kills missions. "Wingmen" are the ones that carry them.

Regards

MutationZ
Posted - 2005.03.21 23:03:00 - [13]
 

Fit stock items. Named are nice but with your precarious position you should really be months away from considering them.

Good advice was given above.

I'll repeat itVery Happy

1 Err on the side of caution.
2 Kill the frigs first, they scramble and web
3 Align nicely so you can warp asap

Do this and you should not go too far wrong. Oh, and make sure you have hull upgrades 4 and the appropriate hardners fitted. I had lvl3 when I started level 4's and the hardners made an ungodly differenceWink

Obodi
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2005.03.22 02:20:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Shirei
Originally by: Odin Tahmorrex
No warp scramblers in lvl 4 that I've found.

There are some lvl 4 missions with scramblers.. For example the Damsel in Distress mission has a few rather annoying scrambler frigs that respawn quickly.


The bonus room in Guristas Extravaganza has ships with scramblers.

Aeris Cloneshadow
Posted - 2005.03.22 08:17:00 - [15]
 

Congrats on going about this the right way! The posters above have probably answered your questions, and I'll tow the party line: you can do it with stock items, but have a WCS in the low and automatically align for warp as soon as you warp in.

Also, don't use heavy drones - the quick scramblers often outrun them. (ask me how I know).

If you are going to dump money into components, may I suggest your hardeners first? Reason: they work 100% of the time cutting damage. Whereas named arm reps can still be overcome with damage, better hardeners always mean less damage (not saying don't buy a L Acco, but good hardeners came first for me). Also, I leaned that CM's work better then Torps in the "Rogue Drone Harrassment" mission; little buggers outran my torps (again, ask me how I know).

Oh, and what everyone else said: cap cap cap cap cap... you can never have a fast enough recharge rate!

AB is next to useless - warp in, approach next level and aggro the baddies as required. BM and come back later for loot.

Lessons learned from an Apoc driver who lost his ship the first time out ugh but has learned better since then Very Happy

Ralitge boyter
Minmatar
Posted - 2005.03.22 12:13:00 - [16]
 

Me currenly hopping around space in a Raven.... Very Happy

I started lvl4 missions a few days ago, with mainly stock items on my Raven and found that except for deadspace missions (which my agent has not offered me yet (good keep it like that)) I have been able to do all misions trown at me.

Yes I can do them on my own and no so far I have managed not to loose my Raven Very Happy it does mean having to jump out from time to time and making sure you never take on more than you can handle... As you are running an armor tank make sure you do not get caught with less then about 25 to 28% armor as soon as you hit this it means your tank is not working as it should and it is time to jump.
As stated before thinking you can get that last 10% hull on that BS that is blasting away at you is not smart it's the way to loose your ship ugh

Andrue
Amarr
Posted - 2005.03.22 12:24:00 - [17]
 

For Cap Rechargers go for Bartons. They seem to be best compromise between cost and effectiveness atm. Of course if you have more money than sense you can go for Tech II but I find that three bartons and a couple of relays let me fire 8 beams, a hardner and one large 1a repairer indefinitely.

William Konrad
Posted - 2005.03.22 12:52:00 - [18]
 

take a budddy with you in a 2nd BS till you become comfortable with Lvl 4 missions and just split the rewards.

Makes life so much easier especially when the server drops you while your being warpscrambled by 3-4 frigs.


Khapeta
Comando Vermelho
Posted - 2005.03.22 14:52:00 - [19]
 

You can try do only not Deadspace missions first, you can deny one mission per agent each 4 hours without loose standings, when you fell well, take the Deaspace ones.

Deileon
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2005.03.23 07:04:00 - [20]
 

Well, finally tried my (semi) Disposable Apoc on some L4 kill missions. So far have done:

Smuggler mission: ...er actually I used MWDing geddon for this one. :D But brought in the Apoc to kill Bship rats up close (geddon setup is defenseless.) No probs really.

Vengeance: 45 min bonus time? HAHHAAHAA! Did the first spawn in about 35 mins, went to second area and upon seeing the second spawn began laughing hysterically. So much for 10M+ in tech 2's! Anyway, was able to kill a 3x750K Bship group, proud of that.

Rogue Drone Harrassment: Mostly easy. Fitted a web in place of 3rd hardener, helped a couple times but didn't really need it. Lost 4 of my heavy drones due to my/their stupidity when they aggro'ed the entire swarm. My tank held up even against 2 Supreme Parasites at once.

Tank was great even with mostly cheap parts, I can run 2 large carapace, 3 hardeners and 6 lasers ALMOST forever. Need recharge time around 200. I kill a bit slow but I can take out even bships eventually. What bugs me is SPEED! 143 m/s is intolerable. I would have no hope at all of making a 45 min bonus time - gotta be kidding. Took over 2 hours to do Vengeance. Basically things aren't too dangerous as long as you are careful to only attack what attacks you first. Some missions will be harder though. If I could fit nicer weapons, maintain my tanking and have the ability to also run an AB, I'd be a lot happier. At least Rogue Drones gave me 26.7M in alloys. :D

Lysithea
Playboy Enterprises
Posted - 2005.03.28 02:09:00 - [21]
 

I always wondered if a tanked Apoc could get through lvl 4 agent missions alone. Sounds like it's possible as long as you don't rush it. I've been hunting multiple BS groups out in 0.0 with no problem so I guess it's time to give missions a shot.

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2005.03.28 02:54:00 - [22]
 

An Econopoc can go through most L4 missions solo, as long as you align for an escape warp the moment you arrive at the mission waypoint, and use your torps and drones to knock out any tacklers first.

Deileon
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2005.03.28 09:04:00 - [23]
 

Hmm well, I haven't needed to warp out, and the one time I came closest to hitting structure, I was scrambled anyway (L4 Damsel - brutal.) I've yet to do extravaganza though.


 

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only