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blankseplocked Is it true that ALL ice will be removed from empire space very soon?
 
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
Posted - 2011.09.05 20:01:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
We are still looking into the option of altering the ice distribution in EVE, but it's not planned for any release at this point.




you should totally do it, tbh

move it to null, increase the yield. Add some gravimetric ice sites for everyone else.

baltec1
Posted - 2011.09.05 20:02:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
We are still looking into the option of altering the ice distribution in EVE, but it's not planned for any release at this point.




you should totally do it, tbh

move it to null, increase the yield. Add some gravimetric ice sites for everyone else.


Move it all to low sec.

Perramas
Caldari
Pan Caldarian Ventures
Posted - 2011.09.05 20:07:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
We are still looking into the option of altering the ice distribution in EVE, but it's not planned for any release at this point.




you should totally do it, tbh

move it to null, increase the yield. Add some gravimetric ice sites for everyone else.


If you moved all the ice, exploration sites, research lab slots and level 4 missions to lol sec and 0.0 I would leave empire space in a heartbeat.

Puppet Mas'ter
Posted - 2011.09.05 20:10:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Puppet Mas''ter on 05/09/2011 20:11:36
Originally by: Perramas
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
We are still looking into the option of altering the ice distribution in EVE, but it's not planned for any release at this point.




you should totally do it, tbh

move it to null, increase the yield. Add some gravimetric ice sites for everyone else.


If you moved all the ice, exploration sites, research lab slots and level 4 missions to lol sec and 0.0 I would leave empire space in a heartbeat.


Great idea: remove high sec. Make it all 0.0
Just think, there would be nowhere for the "pubbie noobs" to go, theyd leave, an youd have the game all to yourselves. Fixes lag too

Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
Posted - 2011.09.05 20:17:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Perramas
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
We are still looking into the option of altering the ice distribution in EVE, but it's not planned for any release at this point.




you should totally do it, tbh

move it to null, increase the yield. Add some gravimetric ice sites for everyone else.


If you moved all the ice, exploration sites, research lab slots and level 4 missions to lol sec and 0.0 I would leave empire space in a heartbeat.


dont need to move everything, but ice is just pretty useless sitting in highsec being lapped up by bots or crazy people with tons of accounts

move it somewhere else and make something useful out of it

AnzacPaul
Perkone
Posted - 2011.09.05 20:20:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: AnzacPaul on 05/09/2011 20:20:16
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate

dont need to move everything, but ice is just pretty useless sitting in highsec being lapped up by bots or crazy people with tons of accounts

move it somewhere else and make something useful out of it


you could say exactly the same thing for nullsec.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.05 20:21:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: AnzacPaul
Edited by: AnzacPaul on 05/09/2011 20:20:16
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate

dont need to move everything, but ice is just pretty useless sitting in highsec being lapped up by bots or crazy people with tons of accounts

move it somewhere else and make something useful out of it


you could say exactly the same thing for nullsec.


you could say the same thing for all ores

Ladie Scarlet
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.09.05 20:22:00 - [38]
 

Yes, along with Level 4 missions, ice mining will be removed from highsec. The game will be much better...just trust us.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.05 20:31:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Ladie Scarlet
Yes, along with Level 4 missions, ice mining will be removed from highsec. The game will be much better...just trust us.


nice troll

why not say all the ice and all the missions an all the ores if youre gonna lie about it lol

Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
Posted - 2011.09.05 20:51:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 05/09/2011 20:51:42
Originally by: AnzacPaul
Edited by: AnzacPaul on 05/09/2011 20:20:16you could say exactly the same thing for nullsec.


Originally by: Sullen Skoung
you could say the same thing for all ores


fair points

so long as mining requires no real player input, it's always going to be best done by multiboxers and bots

still, so long as CCP do something about that before the end of time, moving ice somewhere else would be positive imho

Varesk
Gallente
Maelstrom Crew
Posted - 2011.09.05 21:01:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei
far as CCP is concerned, but that they continue monitoring community feedback, and will consider other things, before they make anything final.


sorry, started laughing really hard at this.

pr0 tip: CCP dosent care about its community and what the community wants for its flagship game. they only care about your money and new subs.


Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.05 21:05:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Varesk
Originally by: Ranka Mei
far as CCP is concerned, but that they continue monitoring community feedback, and will consider other things, before they make anything final.


sorry, started laughing really hard at this.

pr0 tip: CCP dosent care about its community and what the community wants for its flagship game. they only care about your money and new subs.




which is why im starting to think the idea that they WANT the whiners to quit so they can put pay 2 win into the game and start over with a fresh new group of ppl isnt so tinfoily anymore lol

Varesk
Gallente
Maelstrom Crew
Posted - 2011.09.05 21:11:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Originally by: Varesk
Originally by: Ranka Mei
far as CCP is concerned, but that they continue monitoring community feedback, and will consider other things, before they make anything final.


sorry, started laughing really hard at this.

pr0 tip: CCP dosent care about its community and what the community wants for its flagship game. they only care about your money and new subs.




which is why im starting to think the idea that they WANT the whiners to quit so they can put pay 2 win into the game and start over with a fresh new group of ppl isnt so tinfoily anymore lol



That is a good point, however, the game is horribly broke atm and nothing will change. They will just milk it dry until WoD and Dust are released. Then after Dust dies, after the 3 month shelf life of any FPS, they will move all the devs to WoD and shut the server down.

baltec1
Posted - 2011.09.05 21:16:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Varesk


That is a good point, however, the game is horribly broke atm and nothing will change. They will just milk it dry until WoD and Dust are released. Then after Dust dies, after the 3 month shelf life of any FPS, they will move all the devs to WoD and shut the server down.


Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.09.05 21:31:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Ranka Mei on 05/09/2011 21:32:10
Originally by: Varesk
Originally by: Ranka Mei
far as CCP is concerned, but that they continue monitoring community feedback, and will consider other things, before they make anything final.

sorry, started laughing really hard at this.

pr0 tip: CCP dosent care about its community and what the community wants for its flagship game. they only care about your money and new subs.


That would be in line with my signature. :D

A more nuanced view is that I think many of the game devs really *do* care about the game, and community feedback, but that they often find themselves at odds with the brass, who's really only ever in it for the coin. In that sense CCP really isn't all that different from any other big company. I'm still undecided, though, on whether I think that's funny or sad.

Cynthiana
Posted - 2011.09.06 05:38:00 - [46]
 

Personally, I see nothing wrong with ice. Can't compress it in HS. you want better yield, go to LS or 0.0.

If ice were moved to 0.0, most HS POS would shut down as well as WH POS.

Want to get rid of bots, stop making it easy for them to bot. Setup ever changing mini-games. A slight annoyance to real miners, but I'm sure they'll get over it knowing their wallets will do better without the bots around.

Other ore types are just fine where they are.

Level 4's are just fine where they are.

Level 5's make sense too.

IMHO, I think the veterans are bored and CCP can't keep up with keeping their interest.

Also, keep in mind there are some pilots who actually want nothing to do with LS or 0.0. We pay to play a game. If the game has several area's to offer, then all people are happy to play in their area of choice. Force them into an area they don't want, then many will quit, to include myself. Personally, my health doesn't allow me to do 0.0 often or LS due to the stress involved. I rather enjoy mining, missioning, building, but that's just me.

Change HS too much and CCP will lose another +4 year veteran of the game.

Merasa Tro
Posted - 2011.09.06 08:31:00 - [47]
 

If its worth anything.. Here's my thought.

All (or as near as possible) the content should be available to hi-sec players. Note that I say available, not that it should be easy or perfect.

If you've got nearly everything available to hi-sec players, but nerfed in such a way to make it either difficult or really inefficient, then newbie players get to try everything. The market then forces you to find efficient ways to do things.

So, if I'm a new player, I can try everything.

"Oh, I want to try tech 2 manufacturing"
"Oh, I can just about find/afford enough ice to run a small POS with a single invention lab"
"Oh, I can just about find enough PI products to fuel a small POS"
"Oh, I can just about find enough moon mins to build one or 2 ships in a month"
"Oh, everyone on the market makes them a heckofalot cheaper than me!"

Ok, so I found I enjoy tech2 manufacturing, but I'm not competative with the market, I do some research and find out that..
In Lo-sec my POS is cheaper to run, in null its even more cheaper!
In Lo-sec my PI produces more stuff, in null LOTS more.
In Lo-sec I can mine more moon minerals, in null even more!
In Lo-sec I can build lots of ship per month, and cheaper! In null EVEN MOAR!!

So then I start to calculate my risk-reward.
Maybe I dont want to anchor a POS out in null, but I'll go back and forth to ninja mine.
Or maybe I'll keep AFK mining in empire, but run out to a POS thats in Lo-Sec as its cheaper to build there.

If the content is there, new players will come try things out.
If they like an item of content, they'll stay to get better.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.09.06 09:50:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Let's look at the actual quote, shall we? Rolling Eyes
Quote:
For further discussion. Nullsec should be the only place we're injecting (at least some of the) ices, zydrine, megacyte and morphite into the game.
So, yes, the notion that all ice will be removed from highsec is something highsec dwellers have dreamed up because they can't read, not something CCP has ever mentioned, much like the supposed removal of L4s that also was never mentioned.


So what will happen when "(at least some of)" the ice is moved to null sec only? Is all of the ice the same as (at least some of) the ice? Yes, it is. Is the paranoia misplaced? That's a different question entirely, and can't be answered by analysis of the few words in parentheses.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.09.06 09:57:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Mara Rinn
Is all of the ice the same as (at least some of) the ice?
No.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.09.06 10:14:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Mara Rinn on 06/09/2011 10:15:56
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Is all of the ice the same as (at least some of) the ice?
No.


Now is all a subset of the conditions satisfying at least some?

And while we're talking about sets, what about expressing that devblog as "at least some of the set of (ice, zydrine, etc)". Thus all the ice is still satisfying the curiously worded weasel statement.

jinei Naskingar
Minmatar
Legio Noviomagum
Posted - 2011.09.06 10:19:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave


No clue, I don't know all Shadows posts by heart. But the tl;dr here is that I'm not touching it for now.


what about now Laughing

Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar
Nomadic Asylum
Posted - 2011.09.06 10:38:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Brooks Puuntai on 06/09/2011 10:39:14
Originally by: CCP Soundwave

No clue, I don't know all Shadows posts by heart. But the tl;dr here is that I'm not touching it for now.


Just to help you out

Originally by: CCP Shadow


No. There are no microtransaction plans, whatsoever. I wrote "in this case" because this extended downtime was an unusual situation. It's not every day we relocate our servers to a new facility.

Eve-Search Link


Though moving ice to null would be horrible idea. People don't go out to null to mine Blue Ice or White Glaze, in the same way they don't mine Veldspar(except for Chribba). Industrialist only go after the good stuff ABCs and Dark Glitter. Removing ice from highsec will just cause a EXTREME shortage of ice through out the game. Also considering how risky it is to mine ice in comparison to grav sites its not worth the trouble. If you where going to change ice belts I would make ice deplete in high sec and allow grav style ice belts in null.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.09.06 10:42:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Mara Rinn
Now is all a subset of the conditions satisfying at least some?
Doesn't make the two the same — “at least some” does not satisfy the condition of “all”, which is what we're talking about here.

More importantly, if it was “all” they wanted to say, then there's a perfect word for describing that: “all”. They instead chose “at least some”, which signals that it's not all, but rather… some.

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.09.06 10:43:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Brooks Puuntai
Edited by: Brooks Puuntai on 06/09/2011 10:39:14
Originally by: CCP Soundwave

No clue, I don't know all Shadows posts by heart. But the tl;dr here is that I'm not touching it for now.


Just to help you out

Originally by: CCP Shadow


No. There are no microtransaction plans, whatsoever. I wrote "in this case" because this extended downtime was an unusual situation. It's not every day we relocate our servers to a new facility.

Eve-Search Link


Though moving ice to null would be horrible idea. People don't go out to null to mine Blue Ice or White Glaze, in the same way they don't mine Veldspar(except for Chribba). Industrialist only go after the good stuff ABCs and Dark Glitter. Removing ice from highsec will just cause a EXTREME shortage of ice through out the game. Also considering how risky it is to mine ice in comparison to grav sites its not worth the trouble. If you where going to change ice belts I would make ice deplete in high sec and allow grav style ice belts in null.



Just to help you out.

I didn't say never, I said not in the next release. If we at some point decide that removing ice from high sec meets our goals, we'll do it.

Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar
Nomadic Asylum
Posted - 2011.09.06 10:47:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: Brooks Puuntai on 06/09/2011 11:11:39
Don't try and use my line.

edit: Also Soundwave I wasn't trying to call you out. Just showing you the quote others where referencing too.

Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
Posted - 2011.09.06 10:59:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave

Just to help you out.

I didn't say never, I said not in the next release. If we at some point decide that removing ice from high sec meets our goals, we'll do it.


That leads me to ask a direct question here - are these goals a "concrete creation", a foundational guide that you have had from the start? If so, are you happy with the way it has turned out so far?

RUSROG
Amarr
Beasts of Burden
Posted - 2011.09.06 11:15:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
We are still looking into the option of altering the ice distribution in EVE, but it's not planned for any release at this point.




Well same thing was said about MT...
So folks, I guess that's a yes.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.09.06 12:02:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
We are still looking into the option of altering the ice distribution in EVE, but it's not planned for any release at this point.




I hope you put some serious consideration into the availability of fuel for wormhole pos's. You "redistribute" ice and you run the risk of seriously crimping supply and altering the market to a most heinous degree... this has a direct effect on the entire wormhole community. As you should be aware, we get our fuel pretty much from high sec while hauling things to market. Stuff goes out, fuel comes back on the return trip. Screw with the prices too badly and a lot of smaller wh corps will strugle to survive, and those making T3 products will need to jack up the cost of T3 items considerably to make up the lost income. This is far greater than a simple "Gee, we'll get more people into null this way" thing. First of all... no, you won't. People won't go to null to mine ice. They're already not in null simply because they don't want to be. It doesn't appeal to many... screwing the community over won't change that.

Look, we all know Eve is meant to be a sandbox style game. Keep in mind, you keep taking the sand away and you'll find no one wants to play in your empty box anymore.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.09.06 12:14:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Tippia
More importantly, if it was “all” they wanted to say, then there's a perfect word for describing that: “all”. They instead chose “at least some”, which signals that it's not all, but rather… some.


Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Just to help you out.

I didn't say never, I said not in the next release. If we at some point decide that removing ice from high sec meets our goals, we'll do it.


The original statement was "removing ice from hisec". That was later qualified to "(at least some) [of a list of resources]." Now it's merely "not in the next release".

The current CSM is quite happy to go along with it, they're convinced that moving all the profitable industrial activity to null sec is going to make null sec "self sufficient". Then in the next breath they invite industrialists to null sec and blow them up.

CCP (through various mouths) has indicated that the idea has been festering for quite some time. CSM is doing nothing to disabuse them of this notion. It will happen, one way or another. Perhaps ice asteroids will still exist in hisec, but they will refine to very little of any value (e.g.: only the racial isotopes). At that point you can certainly say, "see! I told you so!" But the effect will be the same: the value of ice harvesting in hisec will plummet, prices of ice products will rise, and there will still be no self sufficient industry in null sec.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.09.06 12:18:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Ingvar Angst
I hope you put some serious consideration into the availability of fuel for wormhole pos's. You "redistribute" ice and you run the risk of seriously crimping supply and altering the market to a most heinous degree... this has a direct effect on the entire wormhole community.


Remember that it was never the intention for people to actually live in w-space. You can expect that "removal of hisec ice will lead to decimation of permanent w-space habitation" is seen as a good thing.


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