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Tokyo Rose
Posted - 2011.09.05 21:04:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: AnzacPaul
Edited by: AnzacPaul on 05/09/2011 20:56:42
Originally by: Ranger 1

Connect the dots, my short sighted friend.


Actually considering plex are bought to be resold for isk, its the buyers of the plex (with RL cash) that control the market, not the other way around.




And if people did not create demand by spending ISK for those PLEX, people would stop purchasing them with cash to resell. They shell out the cash because the demand is there, not the other way around.
You have no idea what you are talking about and are arguing for the sake of arguing. Neutral

AnzacPaul
Perkone
Posted - 2011.09.05 21:09:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1

A surplus of PLEX on the market does not change the fact that CCP got paid.



No it doesn't. But lets say the person that buy's the plex with RL cash buys 5 plex a month to support his isk habit.

Is he going to go and buy 6 a month, because 1 person who was paying $15 a month to CCP via sub, drops that and buys 1 of the persons plex?

Why would anyone spend more money to support someone else's habit?

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.09.05 21:10:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Tokyo Rose
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: AnzacPaul
Edited by: AnzacPaul on 05/09/2011 20:56:42
Originally by: Ranger 1

Connect the dots, my short sighted friend.


Actually considering plex are bought to be resold for isk, its the buyers of the plex (with RL cash) that control the market, not the other way around.




And if people did not create demand by spending ISK for those PLEX, people would stop purchasing them with cash to resell. They shell out the cash because the demand is there, not the other way around.
You have no idea what you are talking about and are arguing for the sake of arguing. Neutral


Maybe you missed the countless threads where this has all been explained before in excruciating detail. These things happen when you take long sabbaticals.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.09.05 21:10:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: AnzacPaul
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Just for clarification purposes, we are referring to one PLEX that was used to pay for Tokyo's subscription. We are not talking about sold but unused PLEX cards.

I can't believe people genuinely don't comprehend that.


So are we, that plex was already paid for.

So long as there is more plex on the market than what is needed, CCP aren't making any money.

People buy plex to sell for isk, people looking for game time via plex do not control this. There is no demand for plex atm.

Get it yet? Tokyo's been trying to tell you for about 10 posts.


You fail at economics in game and out.

1. I said I was glad somebody paid for Tokyo's sub; this is true.
2. As long as there is inflation (and there is) the same amount of past currency is worth more than the same amount currently.

While you may be ****ed CCP re-invested their money, all of us are not. Bringing up that the PLEX was purchased with money when it was worth more only makes me happier.

AnzacPaul
Perkone
Posted - 2011.09.05 21:15:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
troll, or stupid, can't work out which.



Back under your bridge.

Tokyo Rose
Posted - 2011.09.05 21:16:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
While you may be ****ed CCP re-invested their money, all of us are not.
Which brings us right back to the only point that matters to any person who wants eve to be the best it can be.

CCP are not using eve's income to improve eve.

CCP is using eve's income to improve their bottom line at the explicit detriment of eve development.

Why is this ok for anyone who wants eve to be the best it can be and finally have at least one(just one!!) new feature be developed to conclusion?Sad

Cors
It's A Trap
It's A Trap Alliance
Posted - 2011.09.05 21:16:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
Alright. Alright.

I'll fix it. Now. EVERYBODY! Send me 100 bucks. With some 300k subscriptions that should yield enough cash to buy out the evil investors and give the power back to the players.

Deal?


P.S. I'll set up a paypal account for this once I get enough positive response. For now, just send me PLEXes.


I'd rather do this, then have mircotransactions. Where can I buy CCP stock....

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.09.05 21:19:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: Cipher Jones on 05/09/2011 21:21:31
Edited by: Cipher Jones on 05/09/2011 21:21:08
Originally by: AnzacPaul
Originally by: Cipher Jones
troll, or stupid, can't work out which.



Back under your bridge.


When you can't use logic against it, its not trolling, bruh.

Originally by: Tokyo Rose
Originally by: Cipher Jones
While you may be ****ed CCP re-invested their money, all of us are not.
Which brings us right back to the only point that matters to any person who wants eve to be the best it can be.

CCP are not using eve's income to improve eve.

CCP is using eve's income to improve their bottom line at the explicit detriment of eve development.

Why is this ok for anyone who wants eve to be the best it can be and finally have at least one(just one!!) new feature be developed to conclusion?Sad


Using your logic, college is a bad choice. You can either benefit directly by getting a minimum wage (or whatever your country has for **** jobs) now, or go to school and make more money later.


Trolls Troll
Posted - 2011.09.05 21:22:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Known Monocotroll



+1 for bad economics trolling Cipphy

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.09.05 21:23:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Trolls Troll
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Known Monocotroll



+1 for bad economics trolling Cipphy


Thanks. I see your rebuttal lacks an actual rebuttal also. Thank you.

AnzacPaul
Perkone
Posted - 2011.09.05 21:24:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones


When you can't use logic against it


Exactly, which is why I gave up with you.

Tokyo Rose
Posted - 2011.09.05 21:27:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Using your logic, college is a bad choice. You can either benefit directly by getting a minimum wage (or whatever your country has for **** jobs) now, or go to school and make more money later.


Wait what? You are comparing college to a game?

College is your path to a better future.

Profit whooring is ccp's path to a fatter wallet.

How can this possibly be the same thing? Shocked

Trolls Troll
Posted - 2011.09.05 21:28:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Trolls Troll
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Known Monocotroll



+1 for bad economics trolling Cipphy


Thanks. I see your rebuttal lacks an actual rebuttal also. Thank you.



don't be mad cause your maths ain't no good bro, plenty people can't do it.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.09.05 21:36:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: AnzacPaul
Originally by: Cipher Jones


When you can't use logic against it


Exactly, which is why I gave up with you.


The money was paid and you failed to prove otherwise.

Originally by: Tokyo Rose
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Using your logic, college is a bad choice. You can either benefit directly by getting a minimum wage (or whatever your country has for **** jobs) now, or go to school and make more money later.


Wait what? You are comparing college to a game?

College is your path to a better future.

Profit whooring is ccp's path to a fatter wallet.

How can this possibly be the same thing? Shocked


When you re-invest money its not profit whoring. Ergo its not the same thing. Even you get to be right once in a while.

Originally by: Trolls Troll
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Trolls Troll
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Known Monocotroll



+1 for bad economics trolling Cipphy


Thanks. I see your rebuttal lacks an actual rebuttal also. Thank you.



don't be mad cause your maths ain't no good bro, plenty people can't do it.


The use of a double negative indicates that "my maths are in fact good". Once again thank you for your support.




Trolls Troll
Posted - 2011.09.05 21:41:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Trolls Troll on 05/09/2011 21:43:32
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Just learnt 2 negatives make a positive





Glad I could teach you something bro, makes my day to educate monocotrolls

Edit: In fact now it makes sense how you could see CCP are making money by having 2 negatives...............


Tokyo Rose
Posted - 2011.09.05 21:47:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
When you re-invest money its not profit whoring. Ergo its not the same thing. Even you get to be right once in a while.
When you reinvest money at the expense of your playerbase to make even more money at the expense of your playerbase its profit whooring.

The only reason ccp is funding multiple projects is to increase its future bottom line and not because of some altruistic crap to eventually improve eve.

CCP could improve eve right now by not investing in projects that have nothing to do with or that have limited impact on eve.

Barbelo Valentinian
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.09.05 22:18:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Tokyo Rose

The only reason ccp is funding multiple projects is to increase its future bottom line



It could also be because, as creative people, they're bored to tears of working on the same bloody game for eight years.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.09.05 22:49:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Tokyo Rose
Originally by: Cipher Jones
When you re-invest money its not profit whoring. Ergo its not the same thing. Even you get to be right once in a while.
When you reinvest money at the expense of your playerbase to make even more money at the expense of your playerbase its profit whooring.

The only reason ccp is funding multiple projects is to increase its future bottom line and not because of some altruistic crap to eventually improve eve.

CCP could improve eve right now by not investing in projects that have nothing to do with or that have limited impact on eve.


You cannot possibly "make money" unless is it "at the expense of" another party. Re-invent your argument to compensate for that over-looked real world mechanic.

CCP is a business. Its primary ethical responsibility is to make money for its shareholders.


Irma Phelbs
Posted - 2011.09.05 22:56:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Zenith Intaki
CCP employees aren't calling the shots anymore. Investors are and that's the reason why EVE turned into massive crap pile.

Also, that little tiny guy with the vision of the best scifi experience should be fired. We already had that, in form of Rev II.


Actually, that game only remaining hope is the investors bringing in competent top level managers and a few experienced project leads (getting rid of hilmar, zulu, tortifrans and a few others obviously) to bring it back on track and harness the power of the genuinely good people working at CCP whose talent is wasted by what is maybe the most ******ed leadership for a company still in business (althought the "in business" part may change on October 28).

Trixie Stardust
Posted - 2011.09.05 23:10:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Tokyo Rose
So when I buy a plex with isk I'm not paying ccp any rl money.

Its called speculation.

Lrn2capitalism.


Your very presence in the game is *providing content*. You think you're getting something free, ha, you're providing content for free.

If you're funding your sub with plex then you're a high end player who is out doing all sorts of things.. indsutry (providing content), playing the markets (providing content), pew pew (providing content), being a corporate / alliance bigwig (providing content).

So you see.. CCP is getting the better in this deal. Also of course you're indirectly giving CCP money.. you're supporting the plex system.. plex purcharses are cash money into CCP (even better if people don't redeem them and they pool on the market or get traded for a monocle that cost nothing to produce).

Ghoest
Posted - 2011.09.05 23:23:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Ghoest
Originally by: Cipher Jones


The whole reason, the only reason, that people are mad at CCP is because they took a larger risk than continuing to develop EvE and EvE only.




No this is false people are "mad" due to 2 primary reasons.

1 No new "space ship" content has been added in almost 2 years and looks like none is on the way in the foreseeable future.

2 Some people resent various aspects of NEX.

Many other companies continue to add popular content to their first game while developing a new game. CCP chose a different route and people are upset.


All of which is a result of deciding to develop other games.


Cipher rhetoric fault alert.

MsValentineWiggin
Posted - 2011.09.06 00:23:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Tokyo Rose
Originally by: Cipher Jones
When you re-invest money its not profit whoring. Ergo its not the same thing. Even you get to be right once in a while.
When you reinvest money at the expense of your playerbase to make even more money at the expense of your playerbase its profit whooring.
The only reason ccp is funding multiple projects is to increase its future bottom line and not because of some altruistic crap to eventually improve eve.



The usual business terms for this tend to have portfolio in them. E.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_portfolio_management

Sony has thousands of products; almost none of them have the same amount of their profit re-invested in them they would if they were stand alone products. The better ones have more; the worse ones are underfunded to free up funds for the more interesting projects. Similarly, Microsoft has hundreds of software titles. Do you think many customers of FIFA 12 worry if profits from their sales go to fund the development of NCAA Football 12?

SInce I don't want to be the only non-troll in this topic, I ask you why would an executive trying to make the best use of corporate resource choose to invest in EVE if there were good alternatives? Why invest in a brand where the customers want it to be unfriendly to new players; who want to be able to grief paying customers away from the game; who want a UI obtuse enough to drive new players away? There are reasons why EVE Online is an interesting game to play. It's a lot harder to come up with reasons why it is a growth investment.


Irma Phelbs
Posted - 2011.09.06 06:32:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: MsValentineWiggin
Why invest in a brand where the customers want it to be unfriendly to new players; who want to be able to grief paying customers away from the game; who want a UI obtuse enough to drive new players away? There are reasons why EVE Online is an interesting game to play. It's a lot harder to come up with reasons why it is a growth investment.



EVE have a proven record of hooking people for years, and my bet is that the ridiculous UI, the imbalances the dull gameplay have a lot more to do with the low newbie retention than the "griefing" going on. There are way enough competitive players in the world for a thousand EVE, just invest in the game to make it attractive.

Aineko Macx
Posted - 2011.09.06 08:21:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Aineko Macx on 06/09/2011 08:23:51
Edited by: Aineko Macx on 06/09/2011 08:22:44
The largest investor in CCP. Note the connection to the russian mob.

EDIT:
Sorry, the link can't be fixed, CCPs forum is unable to handle icelandic characters Laughing
Copy and paste manually: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Björgólfur_Thor_Björgólfsson

Paola DiLivio
Posted - 2011.09.06 12:12:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Aineko Macx
Edited by: Aineko Macx on 06/09/2011 08:23:51
Edited by: Aineko Macx on 06/09/2011 08:22:44
The largest investor in CCP. Note the connection to the russian mob.

EDIT:
Sorry, the link can't be fixed, CCPs forum is unable to handle icelandic characters Laughing
Copy and paste manually: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Björgólfur_Thor_Björgólfsson


http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/aug/27/iceland-tycoon-thor-high-life-icesave-collapse is a lot more interesting than the Wikipedia link

Mr Plack
Posted - 2011.09.06 12:30:00 - [56]
 

Quote:
2 Some people resent various aspects of NEX.


Anyone with half a brain should see the biggest unfairness in the entire matter:

CCP is using your subscription fees to finance graphics designers to create virtual cloths that they are then SELLING back to you for horrendous prices.

People don't seem to understand this. This in itself is absolutely outrageous in my opinion.

First waste all our money to create a service that is then only provided to the dumbest and richest of the community.

It basically shows that CCP has not a shred of decency and are willing to do whatever it takes to earn money.

Potato IQ
Posted - 2011.09.06 15:15:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Irma Phelbs
Originally by: MsValentineWiggin
Why invest in a brand where the customers want it to be unfriendly to new players; who want to be able to grief paying customers away from the game; who want a UI obtuse enough to drive new players away? There are reasons why EVE Online is an interesting game to play. It's a lot harder to come up with reasons why it is a growth investment.



EVE have a proven record of hooking people for years, and my bet is that the ridiculous UI, the imbalances the dull gameplay have a lot more to do with the low newbie retention than the "griefing" going on. There are way enough competitive players in the world for a thousand EVE, just invest in the game to make it attractive.


But that’s your competitive view of the game, not necessarily the competitive types view. Which do you think investors are more interested in?

MsValentine pretty much sums up the rock and a hard place that CCP sits. Your business portfolio has to be an attractive package. A niche game with a loyal but slow to grow playerbase is not it. They have to expand to survive

A painful time for the subscribers, but the caustic approach being adopted by the slavering minority of the games populace is more of a concern than Eve’s current stall in meaningful development/ill conceived content addition

Ineka
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.09.06 16:20:00 - [58]
 

So what will you play after Eve dies?

I think I'll finally try Facebook, seems there's a lot of beautiful ladies asking to be hull tanked and, after all, I've started Gallente and have huge tank skills.

Laughing


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