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Zenith Intaki
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
Posted - 2011.09.05 08:04:00 - [1]
 

CCP employees aren't calling the shots anymore. Investors are and that's the reason why EVE turned into massive crap pile.

Also, that little tiny guy with the vision of the best scifi experience should be fired. We already had that, in form of Rev II.

P42ALPHA
Gallente
Epidemic.
THE D0MINION
Posted - 2011.09.05 08:10:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Zenith Intaki
CCP employees aren't calling the shots anymore. Investors are and that's the reason why EVE turned into massive crap pile.

Also, that little tiny guy with the vision of the best scifi experience should be fired. We already had that, in form of Rev II.


The second those Nvida guys, and Hilmar were up on stage showing off some crappy hand held version of what they could do with EVE, ya that is were the warning sings should have went off. What 2 months later, CCP says they are putting on the pads so they can launch a console game with sony. LAWL.

But not much anyone can do. Enjoy what is left of the game. At worst, we can all play emo vampires, and cut our own virtual wrists...lol

Felix Decat
Posted - 2011.09.05 13:46:00 - [3]
 

Those evil investors. . .

Well if someone buys up a good chunk of a company, they get to start acting like they own a chunk of a company, thats what happens.

However, is that even the case? Generally, even in the cases of private companies there are press releases when a group of investors sink a bunch of money into a company.

CCP has been talking about Incarna for at least 5 years. The game direction isnt a new thing, it's the timeframe and execution has sucked ass.

Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
Posted - 2011.09.05 14:00:00 - [4]
 

yah, i was at the fanfest where they were showing off the nVidea poop.

WHERE ARE THE SPACESHIPS!

Laughing

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.09.05 15:57:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Zenith Intaki
CCP employees aren't calling the shots anymore. Investors are and that's the reason why EVE turned into massive crap pile.

Also, that little tiny guy with the vision of the best scifi experience should be fired. We already had that, in form of Rev II.


Employees don't call shots.

Tokyo Rose
Posted - 2011.09.05 16:18:00 - [6]
 

Also remember that the top ccp dogs are all very wealthy so even if all three projects go the way of the dodo then they are still all very wealthy.

I imagine this has much to do with ccp's current direction. Why worry about taking risks with the company if there is no personal risk?

Abrazzar
Posted - 2011.09.05 16:28:00 - [7]
 

Alright. Alright.

I'll fix it. Now. EVERYBODY! Send me 100 bucks. With some 300k subscriptions that should yield enough cash to buy out the evil investors and give the power back to the players.

Deal?


P.S. I'll set up a paypal account for this once I get enough positive response. For now, just send me PLEXes.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.09.05 16:35:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Tokyo Rose
Also remember that the top ccp dogs are all very wealthy so even if all three projects go the way of the dodo then they are still all very wealthy.

I imagine this has much to do with ccp's current direction. Why worry about taking risks with the company if there is no personal risk?


The whole reason, the only reason, that people are mad at CCP is because they took a larger risk than continuing to develop EvE and EvE only.

It is excellent to see that you paid money to complain about it, and even better that you used someone else's money (self admitted) to do so.

Thank you for your contribution to this great game.

Ghoest
Posted - 2011.09.05 17:42:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Tokyo Rose
Also remember that the top ccp dogs are all very wealthy so even if all three projects go the way of the dodo then they are still all very wealthy.

I imagine this has much to do with ccp's current direction. Why worry about taking risks with the company if there is no personal risk?


I wouldnt be too sure that anyone is Iceland is actually wealthy.

Ghoest
Posted - 2011.09.05 17:47:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones


The whole reason, the only reason, that people are mad at CCP is because they took a larger risk than continuing to develop EvE and EvE only.




No this is false people are "mad" due to 2 primary reasons.

1 No new "space ship" content has been added in almost 2 years and looks like none is on the way in the foreseeable future.

2 Some people resent various aspects of NEX.

Many other companies continue to add popular content to their first game while developing a new game. CCP chose a different route and people are upset.

Jenshae Chiroptera
Posted - 2011.09.05 17:53:00 - [11]
 

It is foolish to let investors dictate the direction of a company. They know how to spot good shares to buy and companies to finance. They aren't qualified or experienced in managing those companies.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.09.05 19:13:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Ghoest
Originally by: Cipher Jones


The whole reason, the only reason, that people are mad at CCP is because they took a larger risk than continuing to develop EvE and EvE only.




No this is false people are "mad" due to 2 primary reasons.

1 No new "space ship" content has been added in almost 2 years and looks like none is on the way in the foreseeable future.

2 Some people resent various aspects of NEX.

Many other companies continue to add popular content to their first game while developing a new game. CCP chose a different route and people are upset.


All of which is a result of deciding to develop other games.

Stormhammer Investments
Posted - 2011.09.05 19:17:00 - [13]
 

Wait until the guys at MD get a hold of this thread. It's ironic on so many levels. Also, yes, it was all my fault.

Tokyo Rose
Posted - 2011.09.05 19:47:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Tokyo Rose
Also remember that the top ccp dogs are all very wealthy so even if all three projects go the way of the dodo then they are still all very wealthy.

I imagine this has much to do with ccp's current direction. Why worry about taking risks with the company if there is no personal risk?


The whole reason, the only reason, that people are mad at CCP is because they took a larger risk than continuing to develop EvE and EvE only.

It is excellent to see that you paid money to complain about it, and even better that you used someone else's money (self admitted) to do so.

Thank you for your contribution to this great game.
No, thank the person who used his personal money to buy a plex that I bought with isk.

I quit personally funding eve over a year ago.

And before you say zomg you still paid for eve no i didn't. Players who buy plex to get isk are independent of players who use rl money to buy a subscription.

The plex would have been bought regardless if I wanted to resub with isk or not. So ccp lost out on $14.95 because I used an isk bought plex instead of using my own rl money. Queue irrational rage about how I still paid rl money to ccp.
Originally by: Ghoest
Originally by: Tokyo Rose
Also remember that the top ccp dogs are all very wealthy so even if all three projects go the way of the dodo then they are still all very wealthy.

I imagine this has much to do with ccp's current direction. Why worry about taking risks with the company if there is no personal risk?


I wouldnt be too sure that anyone is Iceland is actually wealthy.
Anyone in iceland is most likely suffering heavily due to the financial crush.

But the top ccp corporate officers?

If you really think they are not making loads of money then just lol.

This is the same for any business.

Sure the company and especially the employees might not be making loads of cash but the top of the corp always makes a tidy profit.

Lrn2capitalism.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.09.05 20:13:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Tokyo Rose
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Tokyo Rose
Also remember that the top ccp dogs are all very wealthy so even if all three projects go the way of the dodo then they are still all very wealthy.

I imagine this has much to do with ccp's current direction. Why worry about taking risks with the company if there is no personal risk?


The whole reason, the only reason, that people are mad at CCP is because they took a larger risk than continuing to develop EvE and EvE only.

It is excellent to see that you paid money to complain about it, and even better that you used someone else's money (self admitted) to do so.

Thank you for your contribution to this great game.
No, thank the person who used his personal money to buy a plex that I bought with isk.

I quit personally funding eve over a year ago.

And before you say zomg you still paid for eve no i didn't. Players who buy plex to get isk are independent of players who use rl money to buy a subscription.

The plex would have been bought regardless if I wanted to resub with isk or not. So ccp lost out on $14.95 because I used an isk bought plex instead of using my own rl money. Queue irrational rage about how I still paid rl money to ccp.
Originally by: Ghoest
Originally by: Tokyo Rose
Also remember that the top ccp dogs are all very wealthy so even if all three projects go the way of the dodo then they are still all very wealthy.

I imagine this has much to do with ccp's current direction. Why worry about taking risks with the company if there is no personal risk?


I wouldnt be too sure that anyone is Iceland is actually wealthy.
Anyone in iceland is most likely suffering heavily due to the financial crush.

But the top ccp corporate officers?

If you really think they are not making loads of money then just lol.

This is the same for any business.

Sure the company and especially the employees might not be making loads of cash but the top of the corp always makes a tidy profit.

Lrn2capitalism.


Isn't it time you went back to not playing again. Very Happy

The person that bought the PLEX got what he wanted out of it when you purchased it with ISK. YOU are the one that burned up CCP's liability to provide game time when you purchased and used it.

No moral high ground for you I'm afraid.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.05 20:16:00 - [16]
 

Its be funny if the Goons were revealed as the investors. Then we'd all be screwed

Tokyo Rose
Posted - 2011.09.05 20:21:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Isn't it time you went back to not playing again. Very Happy

The person that bought the PLEX got what he wanted out of it when you purchased it with ISK. YOU are the one that burned up CCP's liability to provide game time when you purchased and used it.

No moral high ground for you I'm afraid.

What is this I don't even? Are you drinking and posting again?

Plex are bought independently of someone paying rl money to keep a sub. Did the plex buyer get what he wanted? Of course. But it was a single transaction when normally there would be two transactions. Instead of paying rl money for a resub I paid fake money for a plex. CCP only got paid once instead of twice. Argue it as you will but I only expect another round of circular arguments. Razz

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.09.05 20:26:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Tokyo Rose
Originally by: Ranger 1
Isn't it time you went back to not playing again. Very Happy

The person that bought the PLEX got what he wanted out of it when you purchased it with ISK. YOU are the one that burned up CCP's liability to provide game time when you purchased and used it.

No moral high ground for you I'm afraid.

What is this I don't even? Are you drinking and posting again?

Plex are bought independently of someone paying rl money to keep a sub. Did the plex buyer get what he wanted? Of course. But it was a single transaction when normally there would be two transactions. Instead of paying rl money for a resub I paid fake money for a plex. CCP only got paid once instead of twice. Argue it as you will but I only expect another round of circular arguments. Razz


Yes, CCP only got paid once for one month of subscription time. You sure fooled them.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.09.05 20:28:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Tokyo Rose
Originally by: Ranger 1
Isn't it time you went back to not playing again. Very Happy

The person that bought the PLEX got what he wanted out of it when you purchased it with ISK. YOU are the one that burned up CCP's liability to provide game time when you purchased and used it.

No moral high ground for you I'm afraid.

What is this I don't even? Are you drinking and posting again?

Plex are bought independently of someone paying rl money to keep a sub. Did the plex buyer get what he wanted? Of course. But it was a single transaction when normally there would be two transactions. Instead of paying rl money for a resub I paid fake money for a plex. CCP only got paid once instead of twice. Argue it as you will but I only expect another round of circular arguments. Razz


I'll go slowly for you.

Someone paid CCP for a PLEX.

That PLEX represents an obligation from CCP to provide 30 days of game time.

That someone's intent was to resell that obligation to someone else in return for ISK.

You bought it and he got what he wanted, namely ISK.

You got what you wanted, namely that obligation to provide game time from CCP.

You have directly supported CCP's efforts by removing that obligation to provide game time and completing the transaction cycle.

You like to portray yourself as not providing income to CCP because you pay for PLEX with ISK, when in fact you are essential to their income system working.

Yes, there is a world beyond the end of your nose.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.09.05 20:30:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Tokyo Rose
Originally by: Ranger 1
Isn't it time you went back to not playing again. Very Happy

The person that bought the PLEX got what he wanted out of it when you purchased it with ISK. YOU are the one that burned up CCP's liability to provide game time when you purchased and used it.

No moral high ground for you I'm afraid.

What is this I don't even? Are you drinking and posting again?

Plex are bought independently of someone paying rl money to keep a sub. Did the plex buyer get what he wanted? Of course. But it was a single transaction when normally there would be two transactions. Instead of paying rl money for a resub I paid fake money for a plex. CCP only got paid once instead of twice. Argue it as you will but I only expect another round of circular arguments. Razz


Yes, CCP only got paid once for one month of subscription time. You sure fooled them.


Laughing Well put.

Tokyo Rose
Posted - 2011.09.05 20:39:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Tokyo Rose on 05/09/2011 20:40:15
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Tokyo Rose
Originally by: Ranger 1
Isn't it time you went back to not playing again. Very Happy

The person that bought the PLEX got what he wanted out of it when you purchased it with ISK. YOU are the one that burned up CCP's liability to provide game time when you purchased and used it.

No moral high ground for you I'm afraid.

What is this I don't even? Are you drinking and posting again?

Plex are bought independently of someone paying rl money to keep a sub. Did the plex buyer get what he wanted? Of course. But it was a single transaction when normally there would be two transactions. Instead of paying rl money for a resub I paid fake money for a plex. CCP only got paid once instead of twice. Argue it as you will but I only expect another round of circular arguments. Razz


I'll go slowly for you.

Someone paid CCP for a PLEX.

That PLEX represents an obligation from CCP to provide 30 days of game time.

That someone's intent was to resell that obligation to someone else in return for ISK.

You bought it and he got what he wanted, namely ISK.

You got what you wanted, namely that obligation to provide game time from CCP.

You have directly supported CCP's efforts by removing that obligation to provide game time and completing the transaction cycle.

You like to portray yourself as not providing income to CCP because you pay for PLEX with ISK, when in fact you are essential to their income system working.

Yes, there is a world beyond the end of your nose.

I'll go slowly for you.

Plex sales are independent of subscsription income.

Just because someone buys a plex with rl money doesn't mean its ever applied to an account.

Do some plex eventually get used to fund a subscription?

Of course.

Does every single plex purchase go towards a subscription?

Nope. Ever notice there are hundreds and hundreds of plex on the market?

This is because people buy plex in the hopes of converting it to isk.

Not every plex that is bought with rl money and put on the market is converted to isk hence the hundreds and hundreds on the market.

So when I buy a plex with isk I'm not paying ccp any rl money.

Its called speculation.

Lrn2capitalism.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.09.05 20:42:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 05/09/2011 20:43:05
Originally by: Tokyo Rose
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Tokyo Rose
Originally by: Ranger 1
Isn't it time you went back to not playing again. Very Happy

The person that bought the PLEX got what he wanted out of it when you purchased it with ISK. YOU are the one that burned up CCP's liability to provide game time when you purchased and used it.

No moral high ground for you I'm afraid.

What is this I don't even? Are you drinking and posting again?

Plex are bought independently of someone paying rl money to keep a sub. Did the plex buyer get what he wanted? Of course. But it was a single transaction when normally there would be two transactions. Instead of paying rl money for a resub I paid fake money for a plex. CCP only got paid once instead of twice. Argue it as you will but I only expect another round of circular arguments. Razz


I'll go slowly for you.

Someone paid CCP for a PLEX.

That PLEX represents an obligation from CCP to provide 30 days of game time.

That someone's intent was to resell that obligation to someone else in return for ISK.

You bought it and he got what he wanted, namely ISK.

You got what you wanted, namely that obligation to provide game time from CCP.

You have directly supported CCP's efforts by removing that obligation to provide game time and completing the transaction cycle.

You like to portray yourself as not providing income to CCP because you pay for PLEX with ISK, when in fact you are essential to their income system working.

Yes, there is a world beyond the end of your nose.

I'll go slowly for you.

Plex sales are independent of subscsription income.

Just because someone buys a plex with rl money doesn't mean its ever applied to an account.

Do some plex eventually get used to fund a subscription?

Of course.

Does every single plex purchase go towards a subscription?

Nope. Ever notice there are hundreds and hundreds of plex on the market?

This is because people buy plex in the hopes of converting it to isk.

Not every plex that is sold on the market is converted to isk hence the hundreds and hundreds on the market.

So when I buy a plex with isk I'm not paying ccp any rl money.

Its called speculation.

Lrn2capitalism.


Of course, nobody ever said that all PLEX were used for subscription time. But in your case, that is exactly what it was used for. And with it's purchase and use by you, their potential obligation is fulfilled.

Well done.

Thank you for supporting EVE.

AnzacPaul
Perkone
Posted - 2011.09.05 20:44:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones

It is excellent to see that you paid money to complain about it, and even better that you used someone else's money (self admitted) to do so.

Thank you for your contribution to this great game.



Actually, this wouls only be true once plex go into demand. At the moment there is a plentiful supply of them.

For example, If your paying with a sub, you are giving CCP $15 a month. There is still an excess of plex on the market.

You cancel sub, CCP get 15$ less from you, still excess of plex on market. the plex you buy off the market is already paid for, regardless of who buys it. But if someone that was once an active subscriber buys it, to me that's an overall loss to CCP.

as I said, provided Plex dont get to the stage where they are selling as fast as they are put up.


Tokyo Rose
Posted - 2011.09.05 20:45:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Of course, nobody ever said that all PLEX were used for subscription time. But in your case, that is exactly what it was used for. And with it's purchase by you, their potential obligation is fulfilled.

Well done.

Thank you for supporting EVE.
And yet I personally did not support eve. Someone else did. All I did was use some fake money to buy an item that ccp was already paid for. CCP got paid regardless if I used it to resub or not. But by using it to resub ccp was denied my personal money.

You need another shot mate. Smile

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.09.05 20:50:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Tokyo Rose
Originally by: Ranger 1
Of course, nobody ever said that all PLEX were used for subscription time. But in your case, that is exactly what it was used for. And with it's purchase by you, their potential obligation is fulfilled.

Well done.

Thank you for supporting EVE.
And yet I personally did not support eve. Someone else did. All I did was use some fake money to buy an item that ccp was already paid for. CCP got paid regardless if I used it to resub or not. But by using it to resub ccp was denied my personal money.

You need another shot mate. Smile


Not really mate.

If you, and people like you, did not create demand by spending ISK for them other people would stop purchasing them with cash (to CCP) to resell. Without you, CCP makes less money.

Connect the dots, my short sighted friend.

Tokyo Rose
Posted - 2011.09.05 20:53:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Tokyo Rose
Originally by: Ranger 1
Of course, nobody ever said that all PLEX were used for subscription time. But in your case, that is exactly what it was used for. And with it's purchase by you, their potential obligation is fulfilled.

Well done.

Thank you for supporting EVE.
And yet I personally did not support eve. Someone else did. All I did was use some fake money to buy an item that ccp was already paid for. CCP got paid regardless if I used it to resub or not. But by using it to resub ccp was denied my personal money.

You need another shot mate. Smile


Not really mate.

If you, and people like you, did not create demand by spending ISK for them other people would stop purchasing them with cash (to CCP) to resell. Without you, CCP makes less money.

Connect the dots, my short sighted friend.

And yet the excess of plex on the market totally destroys your argument.

Think of your liver man.. Shocked

AnzacPaul
Perkone
Posted - 2011.09.05 20:56:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: AnzacPaul on 05/09/2011 20:56:42
Originally by: Ranger 1

Connect the dots, my short sighted friend.


Actually considering plex are bought to be resold for isk, its the buyers of the plex (with RL cash) that control the market, not the other way around.


Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.09.05 20:58:00 - [28]
 

Just for clarification purposes, we are referring to one PLEX that was used to pay for Tokyo's subscription. We are not talking about sold but unused PLEX cards.

I can't believe people genuinely don't comprehend that.

AnzacPaul
Perkone
Posted - 2011.09.05 21:01:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Just for clarification purposes, we are referring to one PLEX that was used to pay for Tokyo's subscription. We are not talking about sold but unused PLEX cards.

I can't believe people genuinely don't comprehend that.


So are we, that plex was already paid for.

So long as there is more plex on the market than what is needed, CCP aren't making any money.

People buy plex to sell for isk, people looking for game time via plex do not control this. There is no demand for plex atm.

Get it yet? Tokyo's been trying to tell you for about 10 posts.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.09.05 21:02:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 05/09/2011 21:03:31
Originally by: AnzacPaul
Edited by: AnzacPaul on 05/09/2011 20:56:42
Originally by: Ranger 1

Connect the dots, my short sighted friend.


Actually considering plex are bought to be resold for isk, its the buyers of the plex (with RL cash) that control the market, not the other way around.




And if people did not create demand by spending ISK for those PLEX, people would stop purchasing them with cash to resell. They shell out the cash because the demand is there, not the other way around.

A surplus of PLEX on the market does not change the fact that CCP got paid. Nor does it prove there is not demand for those PLEX.
If there was no demand, people wouldn't be speculating with their cash.


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