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blankseplocked I found a big bug on precision cruise missile.very seriously!!!!
 
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singingbone
Posted - 2011.09.05 04:15:00 - [1]
 

Today, I calculated and contrasted the damages of 4 kinds cruise missiles,which were standard,navy issue,T2 high precision and T2 high damage.
I found that no matter how small the signal radius of enemy is, and no matter how slow the velocity of enemy , the damage of T2 high precision cruise missile will not surpass the damage of navy cruise missile.
That is to say, T2 high precision cruise missile is thoroughly useless !!

Tetragammatron Prime
Posted - 2011.09.05 04:32:00 - [2]
 

I don't see the problem. Why do you think t2 should be better than faction? Precision missile you pay ~1/3 the price of faction variety.

Crellion
Parental Control
Merciless.
Posted - 2011.09.05 06:10:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Tetragammatron Prime
I don't see the problem. Why do you think t2 should be better than faction? Precision missile you pay ~1/3 the price of faction variety.


Wellcome to EvE.

A tech II item designed to fill a specific niche should work better than standard navy version IN THAT SPECIFIC NICHE. For example fury missiles do that. Precisions made Caldari very viable for pvp when first installed so they have been nerfed to oblivion. Even in their niche they are just a cheap alternative.

It is broken and no doubt CCP will fix it soonTM (probably before hybrids too... say 2015)...


singingbone
Posted - 2011.09.05 06:11:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Tetragammatron Prime
I don't see the problem. Why do you think t2 should be better than faction? Precision missile you pay ~1/3 the price of faction variety.

but,the point is that the damege of T2 precision cruise missile is lower than standard cruise missile,after you finish trainning all missile skills.

Theon Viliana
Posted - 2011.09.05 08:28:00 - [5]
 

i though the entire point of precision missiles was less overall dps to bigger target but increased applied dps to smaller targets?

Gemberslaafje
Vivicide
Posted - 2011.09.05 09:35:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Theon Viliana
i though the entire point of precision missiles was less overall dps to bigger target but increased applied dps to smaller targets?


His argument is that Faction missiles actually do more damage to a small ship compared to a Precision T2 missile.

Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.09.05 12:11:00 - [7]
 

Precission variants should definately have a clear advantage against smaller ships that what the normal missiles are designed for. The Precission missiles are already having a nerfed range so this balance is pretty important.

I would very much like to see some statistics/numbers on the subject though.

Pinky

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2011.09.05 12:39:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: singingbone

I found that no matter how small the signal radius of enemy is, and no matter how slow the velocity of enemy , the damage of T2 high precision cruise missile will not surpass the damage of navy cruise missile.


This doesn't make sense. In theory, Precisions are best used against small, fast targets. But you describe tests against small, slow targets.

Theoretically, my spreadsheet shows that TNP V, GMP V Cruise hitting a 40 m sig, 1000 m/s target does 3.5% damage from CN, and 6.7% damage from Precision. Applying these numbers to the base Cruise damages (345 CN, 260 Precision) gives 11.9 damage from CN and 17.4 damage from Precision. Meaning that in this case, Precision is doing 45.9% more damage than CN.

Herping yourDerp
Posted - 2011.09.05 17:19:00 - [9]
 

just to make sure, ur small target was moving fast without a MWD on right?

Gemberslaafje
Vivicide
Posted - 2011.09.05 18:51:00 - [10]
 

Using the following fits:
Quote:

[Rifter, New Setup 1]
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

1MN MicroWarpdrive II
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Disruptor II

200mm AutoCannon II, EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, EMP S
Small Nosferatu II

Small Polycarbon Engine Housing II
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing II
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I


and
Quote:

[Raven, Battleship complex raven fit ]
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Cap Recharger II
Invulnerability Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
X-Large Shield Booster II
Shield Boost Amplifier II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I



I'm using EFT 2.13.4
100% Transversal, MWD ON, Caldari Navy Paradise: 17 DPS
100% Transversal, MWD OFF, Caldari Navy Paradise: 20 DPS
0% Transversal, MWD ON, Caldari Navy Paradise: 430 DPS
0% Transversal, MWD OFF, Caldari Navy Paradise: 72 DPS

100% Transversal, MWD ON, T2 Paradise Fury: 9 DPS
100% Transversal, MWD OFF, T2 Paradise Fury: 10 DPS
0% Transversal, MWD ON, T2 Paradise Fury: 261 DPS
0% Transversal, MWD OFF, T2 Paradise Fury: 72 DPS

100% Transversal, MWD ON, T2 Paradise Precision: 25 DPS
100% Transversal, MWD OFF, T2 Paradise Precision: 28 DPS
0% Transversal, MWD ON, T2 Paradise Precision: 347 DPS
0% Transversal, MWD OFF, T2 Paradise Precision: 60 DPS

Comparative:
Navy/Fury/Precision:
17/9/25 <- Precision wins on 100% + MWD
20/10/28 <- Precision wins on 100% transversal
430/261/347 <- Caldari Navy wins on Stationary Target + MWD
72/72/60 <- Caldari Navy ties with Fury on Stationary Target

Gemberslaafje
Vivicide
Posted - 2011.09.05 18:53:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Gemberslaafje on 05/09/2011 19:04:20
The same figures with a 100% transversal Raven with the same fit as above as target:
Navy/Fury/Precision
460/512/347 <- T2 Fury wins hands down when it's about battleship sized targets.

EDIT: For the record, I'm not saying these missiles can't use a look at (as I don't use them I'm not the one to give an opinion about it) but what the OP says is just plain wrong.

singingbone
Posted - 2011.09.06 03:28:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: singingbone

I found that no matter how small the signal radius of enemy is, and no matter how slow the velocity of enemy , the damage of T2 high precision cruise missile will not surpass the damage of navy cruise missile.


This doesn't make sense. In theory, Precisions are best used against small, fast targets. But you describe tests against small, slow targets.

Theoretically, my spreadsheet shows that TNP V, GMP V Cruise hitting a 40 m sig, 1000 m/s target does 3.5% damage from CN, and 6.7% damage from Precision. Applying these numbers to the base Cruise damages (345 CN, 260 Precision) gives 11.9 damage from CN and 17.4 damage from Precision. Meaning that in this case, Precision is doing 45.9% more damage than CN.

Could you offer me a mathematical formula? I suspect the missile damage formula that last time I used was fake.

Nezumiiro Noneko
Posted - 2011.09.06 06:04:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Nezumiiro Noneko on 06/09/2011 06:14:05
Originally by: Gemberslaafje
EDIT: For the record, I'm not saying these missiles can't use a look at (as I don't use them I'm not the one to give an opinion about it) but what the OP says is just plain wrong.


they don't really need a look....well more than most gun based t2 ammo. Precision falls in line with everyone else really. Gun runners for the most part make hard choices with thier t2 ammo....only fair missiles users do to.

Precision has, as you showed, stats that excel only in 1 instance, 100% transversal. Unless one pilot is really bad or really good....not a 100% full time event. CN a better choice...get over it all one can do really.

Guns have this same problem. Projectile for example has its red headed t2 step children. Barrage....loved by all who use it (much like rage is liked). Barrage hits decent, nice fall off, cheap as chips vice your rf ammo's. Then you have hail, the mutant child left locked up in the basement till really needed. For arty, you have tremor which ain't so bad....and then quake who has the cage next to hail lol . why rf (and some navy) is preferred...its jsut more useuful than half the t2 stuff.

rails almost the same...guessing crystals the same but not up to speed on them to comment.

Sigras
Gallente
Conglomo
Posted - 2011.09.06 06:30:00 - [14]
 

Why does everyone always think that T2 = better?

http://i.imgur.com/kLycl.png

See also heavy diminishing nosferatu and 'hypnos' jammers.

Ciar Meara
Amarr
Virtus Vindice
Posted - 2011.09.06 08:09:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Crellion

Wellcome to EvE.

A tech II item designed to fill a specific niche should work better than standard navy version IN THAT SPECIFIC NICHE. For example fury missiles do that. Precisions made Caldari very viable for pvp when first installed so they have been nerfed to oblivion. Even in their niche they are just a cheap alternative.

It is broken and no doubt CCP will fix it soonTM (probably before hybrids too... say 2015)...




Have you any idea on how long we waiting for rocket fix? Even soonTM doesn't cover it!

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2011.09.06 09:25:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: singingbone
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: singingbone

I found that no matter how small the signal radius of enemy is, and no matter how slow the velocity of enemy , the damage of T2 high precision cruise missile will not surpass the damage of navy cruise missile.


This doesn't make sense. In theory, Precisions are best used against small, fast targets. But you describe tests against small, slow targets.

Theoretically, my spreadsheet shows that TNP V, GMP V Cruise hitting a 40 m sig, 1000 m/s target does 3.5% damage from CN, and 6.7% damage from Precision. Applying these numbers to the base Cruise damages (345 CN, 260 Precision) gives 11.9 damage from CN and 17.4 damage from Precision. Meaning that in this case, Precision is doing 45.9% more damage than CN.

Could you offer me a mathematical formula? I suspect the missile damage formula that last time I used was fake.


Courtesy of Stafen.

Damage = Base_Damage * MIN(MIN(sig/Er,1),(Ev/Er * sig/vel)^(log(drf)/log(5.5))

Linkage


 

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