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blankseplocked Energy transfer arrays need a nerf.
 
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Shadowsword
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2011.09.04 19:51:00 - [1]
 

I've been thinking a lot recently about mid/large-scale pvp, supercap blobs, and so on. And I came to realise that the one most important factor to blobbing, the biggest incentive to do just that, is that if you have some buffer and enough remote tanking in the gang, then you're invincible.

Let's take an exemple, the infamous 166M EHP Aeon.
(166M only with slave set, gang boost bonus, Erebus bonus, and so on, but the single fact that one ship can get more EHP that a large deathstar is a dead ringer that something is badly out of whack here)

Damage control II
Corpus X-type Armor EM hardener
Corpus X-type Armor Thermic hardener
Corpus X-type Armor Kinetic hardener
Corpus X-type Armor Explosive hardener
Corpum A-Type EANM
Corpum A-Type EANM
Regenerative plating II

Sensor Booster II
Cap recharger II
Cap recharger II
Cap recharger II

Capital Murky Energy Transmitter
Capital Murky Energy Transmitter
Capital Murky Energy Transmitter
Capital Coaxial Regenerative Projector
Capital Coaxial Regenerative Projector
Capital Coaxial Regenerative Projector

Trimark armor pump II
Trimark armor pump II
Trimark armor pump II

a few stats: no resist under 90%. With the three remote repairers, it can boost 990 HP/sec to it's target. Without taking into account armor links. If that Aeon was remoted by another Aeon with the same fit, it would tank 9900 dps even on it's worst resistance. With a gang-boosting legion in gang, add 28% to that. And those two aeons can tranfer enough cap to each other to be very nearly cap-stable.

Now, if there's twenty ships like that in the gang, or fifty, the scale of the issue become glaringly obvious. And we came to this situation, to those fits with ridiculous amounts of resistances and remoting ability without any counterbalancing weakness (when in group), because energy arrays are creating cap out of thin air.

So I think cap transfer arrays should be nerfed to give only as much cap as they use. That would force logistic ships (capitals and cruisers) to fit more cap modules, meaning less ludicrous resistances, and/or cut down on the amount of remote repairers they can sustain. That would bring back a bit of sanity in the spider tanking concept.

Herping yourDerp
Posted - 2011.09.04 21:18:00 - [2]
 

the problem is then logistic ships like the guardian will be worthless, the need to have cap given to them and the best way is for 2 guardians to give cap to each other

Shadowsword
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2011.09.04 21:27:00 - [3]
 

Why do they need cap? Because they could have enough internal cap generation to sustain 2 remote armor repairers/shield boosters (one medium remote repairer is only 22 cap per cycle), but they prefer to fit less cap mods and more plate/resists. It's the same issue on a small scale. Now you have gangs hesitate to engage gangs of the same size if they don't have logistics, and the enemy has a handfull of them. A small nerf won't put them out of use.

grazer gin
Posted - 2011.09.04 21:55:00 - [4]
 

CRY SOME MOAR

Infinion
Caldari
Awesome Corp
Posted - 2011.09.04 22:49:00 - [5]
 

I disagree with cap being the win-over-all in large-scale supercap engagements. There is a certain point where dps will always dominate remote or local repping regardless of how much cap you provide. DPS just scales much better than repping, as it should be. The issue as far as I'm concerned, is elsewhere

Shadowsword
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2011.09.05 08:53:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Infinion
I disagree with cap being the win-over-all in large-scale supercap engagements. There is a certain point where dps will always dominate remote or local repping regardless of how much cap you provide. DPS just scales much better than repping, as it should be. The issue as far as I'm concerned, is elsewhere


In theory, you can always bring enough dps to overcome any remote. But look at the numbers. One single Aeon able to negate on another SC the damage of 15-18 close range, dps-fitted battlecruisers, for exemple. Or the non-DD output of 2 titans, if you prefer. If there's 40 SC, that's the damage output of 600 BC. Now add extreme lag, losses on the BC ranks as the SC fighters and drones are doing damage, and the dozens of millions of EHP to chew through even if you exceed the remoting, and it just won't fly. 40 players defeating 120 because of massively more expensive ships is fine. 40 players defeating 600 is game breaking.

And what if there's 100 SC? 150? The node will crash before you can bring in the dps to break that kind of spider-tanking.

No matter how you look at it, those spider-tanking fits are way too effective, and the best way to do something about it is to make mandatory the very thing they cut away to get that way: self cap recharge.

Originally by: grazer gin
CRY SOME MOAR


Very mature argument. Kindergarden is that way. ->[]

Gemberslaafje
Vivicide
Posted - 2011.09.05 09:33:00 - [7]
 

The point is, supercaps at this point have much more problems making them overpowered then just the remote cap recharging.

In addition, nerfing remote cap recharging will, as pointed out, break many other things in the game.

I agree that supercaps needs to be nerfed, but not in the way you are suggesting.

I would take away the EWAR Invulnerability, and switch it for a +5-ish warp stabilizing effect. The whole idea of EVE is that, even a 7 day old guy in a rifter can make a difference with a T1 scram, a web, and a few guns. With supercaps, you can only make a difference with your guns, and even that's small enough to be recharged by the damn thing's shield recharge.

In addition, I would change the motherships DPS to be more focussed at Cap Killing, giving subcaps a better chance against motherships, and finally I'd have a very stern look at their EHP.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.09.05 12:44:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Shadowsword
Why do they need cap? ..

True, it is possible to setup a non-suicide logistics to run 2-4 RR but since they'll fall victim to neuting in 99% of fights you end up with 50% of any given fleet being logistics .. bored much?
This vulnerability to neuting would also benefit certain hulls much more than others (looking at you Pest/Phoon!) so you'd have rebalance just about everything to make it work.

SC's problems are not related to NRG.trans whatsoever. Solving your perceived problem is better done by disallowing RR to be fitted and/or used on them.
Fixing an obviously broken ship-class is not done by breaking a bunch of other ships in the process .. at least not consciously.


 

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