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Shizu Eisenkreuz
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.09.04 08:50:00 - [1]
 

I just started running level 4s (completed 4 or 5 so far) and yesterday I got this one: Stop the Thief.

As always, I looked it up on eve survival before accepting it. It didn't seem particularly dangerous, so I accepted and went on my merry way.

First group, piece of cake. But the second group DESTROYED me. I started warping out at 35% shield and couldn't get out in time. I was webbed but I don't think I was scrambled (unless the small icon in the overview "xxx is webbing you" are overlapped). Only the web icon was visible.

Anyway, this was my fit:


[Maelstrom, Lv 4 PVE]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner
Domination X-Large Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Heat Dissipation Amplifier II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Phased Plasma L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Phased Plasma L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Phased Plasma L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Phased Plasma L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Phased Plasma L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Phased Plasma L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Phased Plasma L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Phased Plasma L

Large Core Defence Capacitor safeguard I
Large Core Defence Capacitor safeguard I
Large Core Defence Capacitor safeguard I





This is me:

Shizu Eisenkreuz


Now the questions:

This wasn't a "my tank can barely hold and I have to warp out 3 times per mission" situation. The tank got demolished in seconds in what seems to be a pretty average level 4 mission.
So what should I train to improve my tank? I'm kinda confused right now, as I can't see any skill to provide a significant boost. Maybe the various shield compensation skills?

Or should I start using active hardeners? Cap management is annoying enough with passive hardeners.

About my future training, my current plan after t2 drones was mostly focused on capacitor skills (energy system operations V, energy management IV or V, shield compensation IV, fuel conservation IV), followed by all gunnery support skills to IV or V and then T2 weapons.

Right now I could easily replace my Maelstrom, but running more level 4s doesn't seem the brightest idea.
Other options are:
- running lv3s in a new maelstrom to get more accustomed to the ship
- going back to my cyclone and run more level 3s while I get some more training.

To sum it up, any advice about both my fitting and my skills is most welcome. I thought I was on the right track to start doing level 4s, but obviously it isn't the case.


Centis Adjani
Gallente
Posted - 2011.09.04 09:48:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Centis Adjani on 04/09/2011 09:50:01
I guess you did nothing wrong.

If you take a view at the Issues with the last patch:
Issues with Incarna 1.1 Patch
the fault or problem could be your weapons not grouped right or some modules didnt work (switched off) or some skills of yours wearn't applied.

For example, one guy reported in this topic about his Shield Boost Amplifier, which didnt work well.
I stopped doing missions with the patch 1.1 and switched to mining actually, until most of these issues become fixed.

Iluminat
Minmatar
Sharp Dressed Man
Posted - 2011.09.04 09:49:00 - [3]
 

Your answer is to fit a Cap stable shieldbooster.
Enough drones for the smaller ships that web or scrammble. Take those out first.
If you cant affort a xl gist-c booster try a large one (cap stable)
Train missile ships for missions.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.09.04 10:49:00 - [4]
 

I would definitely advise active hardeners. Although they do eat a little cap, they'll also increase your resists a lot, so that you'll need to cycle your shield booster less. Overall, you'll come out well ahead.

Webs can kind of tackle you in the sense that if you're going full AB speed in one direction, then you get webbed and try and warp off in another direction, your ship will take ages to re-align, quite a lot longer than your normal time-to-warp. Also it is possible you got stuck on something. EVE's collision detection is differently intuitive.

Fault Knocks
Posted - 2011.09.04 10:49:00 - [5]
 

on that mission, the 2nd group spawn right ontop of you, and they are all close range ships, the cruisers do HEAVY EM damage.

unless you have crazy em resists, you have to start killing them fast as possible, another problem is your using passive hardners, which do give ok resists, the active ones give much better which will help in that situation.

most lvl4's wont pump out the damage as that mission does, but aslong as you kill the cruisers soon as you can, you should beable to handle the incoming damage.

your fit seems fine, just replace the passive hardners with active hardners to give you a extra few precious seconds to kill what needs to be killed.

Regards

Fault


Dirty Addict
Posted - 2011.09.04 10:50:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Dirty Addict on 04/09/2011 10:53:56
Stop the theif can be a tough mission, its one of the few missions that made me have to keep an eye on my tengus tank..

Nothing particuly wrong with your fit except maybe the rigs,
it might show on eft they are better than cap controls but dont belive it..

If your pulseing your booster and your sat on 40% Cap controls will recharge it faster ready for the next pulse, makeing you less reliant on your cap booster!
Swap atleast 1 for a cc rig!

Next time you on that mission, fit proper hardners, drop the ab for another hardner and good luck!
Jump back on the horse, 3s suck!

Always align and be aware of being pointed!!

Just saw your skills..

Work on cap skills and gunnery with priority.

Lord Wickham
Posted - 2011.09.04 11:07:00 - [7]
 

the mission is more about gank then tank, even a cap stable dual rep domi struggles with the damage the spawn group does.

your options are, kill frigates and cruisers before killing the BS that spawns the large group or stay aligned and only kill those the mission requires and warp out.


another option is to warp in at 40-50k and with your artilleries you will be able to kill incoming dps before they get to optimal on you. this is by far the easiest option and less stress on your tank.


ing SpeedyJ
Gallente
Posted - 2011.09.04 11:42:00 - [8]
 

I am warping to this mission in range,it is single not gated pocket, easy and safe Wink

Gavin DeVries
Posted - 2011.09.04 12:06:00 - [9]
 

The mercenary cruisers in group two use lasers, which do EM/Thermal damage. You have this huge gaping EM hole, because even with level 5 in the appropriate shield compensation an EM amp only gives 53.8% EM resists. I would drop the boost amp because you already have one inbuilt in the Maelstrom's bonuses, and replace that one with a third hardener.

Get some distance away from your entry point before you spawn group two, because they tend to do a hell of a lot of damage at close range.

Linda Shadowborn
Gallente
Dark Steel Industries
Posted - 2011.09.04 12:45:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Gavin DeVries
The mercenary cruisers in group two use lasers, which do EM/Thermal damage. You have this huge gaping EM hole, because even with level 5 in the appropriate shield compensation an EM amp only gives 53.8% EM resists. I would drop the boost amp because you already have one inbuilt in the Maelstrom's bonuses, and replace that one with a third hardener.

Get some distance away from your entry point before you spawn group two, because they tend to do a hell of a lot of damage at close range.


Since the updated gun graphics they now correctly use hybrids.

ValentinaDLM
Minmatar
Ubi Concordia Ibi Victoria
Posted - 2011.09.04 13:00:00 - [11]
 

I don't think your fit is particularly bad, though I personally would use active hardeners, especially with a cap booster. I would adivse you to check EFT and see if CCC rigs would be better than the CDCS rigs you have in there.

Don't underestimate mobility's effect on your tank. Due to this I would recommend you to defintily get drone interfacing, drone durability, drone navigation, and drone sharpshooting up to at least 4, so that you can take the webbing frigates out quickly.

Last time I was doing this misson solo in high sec, I was using a Gila, and I don't recall it being too tough, just that taking out the webbers was something I really had to do before I could relax and orbit. When I did it in 0.0 I used a dominix with some smartbombs (really handy for spider drones and frigs, but in high sec a bad idea).

Also the first thing you should do, if you are unsure about how tough the spawn will be, is align to a celestial/station as soon as you warp in. Keeping aligned saved me many times in both PVE and PVP Also if you aren't very confident in your tank, training electronic warfare drone interfacing (which increases all drone control range and is something you want anyway) and keeping some ECM drones will give you a chance to jam scrammers and warp out.

One word of warning about that tactic though, it may seem like a good idea to use those jam drones to reduce incoming DPS but, the rats when they do lock again will then attack the drones since they are the closest thing and that won't end well seeing as they have very low EHP.


Julien Brellier
Posted - 2011.09.04 13:13:00 - [12]
 

The correct answer to this particular question is to fit 1400mm artillery, warp in at 100km and snipe that mission.

Shizu Eisenkreuz
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.09.04 14:55:00 - [13]
 

Thanks everyone for the input.
Glad to see that mission isn't as easy as it seems.

First, I will look into active hardeners.
About rigs, EFT gives better results with 3x CDCS instead of CCC, but in practice it didn't seem very efficient. So I'll try different combinations.

Also, looks like I need a more careful approach. Guess I was a bit over-confident after the first 4-5 level 4s, wich seemed surprisingly easy.

Flakey Foont
Posted - 2011.09.04 17:24:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Flakey Foont on 04/09/2011 17:38:11
Edited by: Flakey Foont on 04/09/2011 17:29:22
The EM is crazy in Stop the Thief. And active hardeners for sure. And why CCC rigs with a cap booster?

This was my Mael:


[Maelstrom, FF current Mael]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Heavy Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
100MN Afterburner I
Photon Scattering Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
'Stalwart' I Particle Field Magnifier

800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L

Large Core Defence Capacitor safeguard I
Large Core Defence Capacitor safeguard I
Large Projectile Burst Aerator II


Drop the AB for more hardeners if need be.

Also, skip Stop the Thief. I do even with a Mach.

Lili Lu
Posted - 2011.09.04 18:17:00 - [15]
 

I agree with above posters on warping in at range and sniping that mission with arty and changing passive shield resists to active. I would add to those suggestions the alteration of your lows to include a damage control mod. Whether you sacrifice a gyro or a TE to fit a dc is up to you. A dc effectively doubles or better your hull hp, and gives you some supplemental armor resist. The extra ehp may have been sufficient to provide the extra second(s) to allow your ship to align and hit warp. I don't engage in any eve combat activity without a suitcaseEmbarassed

Now that you have started doing level 4s don't fall into the fallacy of thinking that you can create one ship to rule them all. Minmatar BSs are quite different so once you have varried your training you can do something like fitting a cruise armor tanking phoon to take on Sansha em damage and td-ing, instead of struggling with the fitting difficulties of a Mael againt that set of circumstances.

At the logical extension of that ideal of adaptibility you should train a second race of ships. Not only will this provide more variety and delay the inevitable diminution of level 4 novelty and enjoyment (it does eventually come Sad) it will also provide you with some nerf proofing Smile

Leetha Layne
Posted - 2011.09.04 18:36:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Leetha Layne on 04/09/2011 19:54:13
You can't warp in at range for the second pocket which is the dangerous one.

No troll, thinking of diff mission.

Caleidascope
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.09.04 18:57:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Leetha Layne
You can't warp in at range for the second pocket which is the dangerous one.

There is no second pocket, you troll.

Exploited Engineer
Posted - 2011.09.04 19:38:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Shizu Eisenkreuz
First group, piece of cake. But the second group DESTROYED me.


DPS from that second group is brutal, and it's kinetic, thermal and EM. I usually fit a therm SRA, a therm SH and an invulnerability field (all tech 2) to deal with this.

And replace the AB with another SH/SB in this mission.

Sandrestal
Posted - 2011.09.04 20:23:00 - [19]
 

The only mistake I see is you used a AC set up for the mission. Next time try 1400 Mael, warp in at 70k and then kill everything approaching you. Just did this mission the other night and no problem

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.09.04 21:18:00 - [20]
 

It's all been said already except one thing: overheating.

You can overheat active hardeners, you can not overheat passive hardeners. You should be able to overheat two hardeners on that fit for something like 3-5minutes, depending on skills and module placement. The overheating boost is TWENTY PERCENT.

To put that in context, overheating the T2 hardener will give you a resist bonus which is actually better than the best officer module, Estamel's Modified Photon Scattering field .. or the exactly equivelent Pith-X type. You get 66% on the overheated module, versus 64% on the Meta 14.

If you want to see how this affects your tank, stick the specific damage profiles into EFT and right click the module to set it overheated. Looks impressive, no?

Long story short, overheating the hardeners (or hell .. the entire middle rack) would almost certainly give you enough time to pop the scrambling frigate and warp out .. or just align to warp normally.

As for your fit, it is fine as long as you change from passive to active hardeners. CCC rigs alongside a cap booster is complete fail, BTW .. don't follow that advice. Sure, you regen cap quicker (that's the ****ing point) but you don't get down to such a low cap number if your booster is using less in the first place.

tofucake prime
The Hatchery
Posted - 2011.09.05 03:13:00 - [21]
 

Fit sebos+arty
Warp to 100
Pop Shadow
Buy Reports off market
Profit

Gavin DeVries
Posted - 2011.09.05 05:47:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Linda Shadowborn
Since the updated gun graphics they now correctly use hybrids.


Interesting. Do they correctly do kinetic/thermal damage with those? Given CCP's track record I would not be at all shocked for them to change the graphic but not the damage type. Laughing

Sphynix
Posted - 2011.09.05 11:36:00 - [23]
 

Others have already said it, but...

If you warp in a 0, then the way to do this is bring a huge tank and kill only the 2 BS you need, then loot the tin and warp.
The incoming DPS is pretty huge when they all spawn on top of you.

Otherwise warp in at about 50-70km and it's a bit like shooting chickens in a very small enclosure.

The frigates can scram you, so be ready to stick some small drones on them. On the plus side they also generally tend to use a MWD to get to you, so they are pretty easy to alpha.

Some level 4's are much harder than others. Some, like this one, you just need to know the "trick" and it goes from hard to easy.


 

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