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Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.09.04 06:31:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Bebie123
Did they rearrange stuff at the top somehow? Old people left and new, more radical business people took their places?

opposite

CCP fails to understand that having demonstrated the ability to lead a startup for a few years does not automatically qualify you for leading a multinational game development company.

Some people are good at getting startups off the ground (which requires a pretty risk-friendly attitude), some people are good at managing complexity and taking calculated risks - sometimes these capabilities overlap, often they don't.

Same old people but the company has simply outgrown the limits of their abilities and they really should think about making room for qualified personnel.

Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
Posted - 2011.09.04 07:00:00 - [32]
 

Let's look at this from CCP perspective:
Eve is successful, but it's a niche game. The subscriptions are growing, but it's clear that they can't grow forever as the niche resources are being all used up. We don't also know how many of the new subs are alts and how many are genuine new players. From CCP point of view Eve is a classical cash cow - established niche product which you don't have to advertise too hard as the growth potential is low and that has a loyal playerbase that will still love the game and pay.
But as company CCP needs to grow, now, how do you do this? You can modify Eve so that it'll appeal to a larger group of customers, but you risk losing your current customers and it'll be a disaster. Or, you can create new product using Eve revenue - WoD, Dust (which even uses some of Eve lore). That is perfectly fine from business point of view, but CCP had messed things up.
First of all they've neglected Eve completely. While you don't have to pump money into Eve, completely neglecting it and ignoring the players is a bad move. Second they've spread themselves too thin and coupled with a weak economy this put CCP in a dangerous position. To cover expenses they need more money than Eve can get them and the banks are now not that enthusiastic to give new loans. Tbh, the best would be to slash either Dust or WoD (should be Dust imho as it's more experimental and is outside of company field of experience), instead they've pushed in MT to squeeze a bit more $$$ from Eve, which alienated a large chunk of playerbase, then some internal letters with hints for more MT were leaked and all hell breaks loose.
CCP has made some quite serious mistakes, but itís not too late to repair the damage. Itís a pity that it seems theyíve learnt nothing from this and continue the spin, avoiding telling the truth and clearly stating the NEX and Barbie doll strategy was a mistake. Eve can support a new project, but I doubt that in current conditions it can support 2.

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.09.04 07:11:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 04/09/2011 07:16:53
Originally by: Rhinanna
Banking collapse - CCP suddenly have a lot of commitments and aren't in such a rosey financial position

two remarks:

(a) we don't know how long CCP's loans typically run, which currency they are/were denoted in, ...
The banking crisis might either have increased the cost of rolling over loans/refinancing substantially by driving up interest rates (and forcing more conservative behavior by banks) and/or it might have made CCP's life a lot easier (their revenue is mostly in dollar/euro, increased political influence by being one of few sources of hard currency in Iceland).
Maybe the collapse of Icelandic banks did help CCP to raise more equity (icelandic investors switching to "real" values), who knows?

(b) we know that CCP offered its employees to pay their salary in euro during the crisis and that many took the company up on that offer.
You can take the stance that this might have been very costly for CCP (compared to the counter-factual of paying wages in ISK it certainly was) or that it didn't matter (because their revenue was dollar/euro anyways).

Bebie123
Posted - 2011.09.04 07:13:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Phelan Votronski
Three years later or so he's back with a new name and marvelous 1000$ jeans.


Yeah, this keep amazing me too. Really curious how that 'dev' could bounce back like he did.

I guess they got pushed into broadening their product portfolio to invest for the future to increase revenue and when that happened, things got more complicated, more people got involved and everything started moving towards what we recognize as the more typical company behaviour of our time.

Whatever the cause might be, I feel sad that the CCP of old is gone. What they were back then was for me a 'winning concept', a sympathetic company pashionate about their thing. It was part of their product, a big part of their charm if you like, we all know as EVE Online. It made me feel like being a part of their personal adventure.

Now it s all in shambles.

Sad

ed jeni
SKULLDOGS
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2011.09.04 09:58:00 - [35]
 

Actually for once a very good thread, with some good comments and opinions..

I would "like" this thread but can't until next weeks new forumz rollout..

Rasz Lin
Caldari
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
Posted - 2011.09.04 10:10:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Bebie123
Originally by: Phelan Votronski
Three years later or so he's back with a new name and marvelous 1000$ jeans.


Yeah, this keep amazing me too. Really curious how that 'dev' could bounce back like he did.


Probably by being friends with management on bookface .. if you believe those CCP employee testimonials on the interwebs

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.09.04 10:13:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Rasz Lin
Originally by: Bebie123
Originally by: Phelan Votronski
Three years later or so he's back with a new name and marvelous 1000$ jeans.


Yeah, this keep amazing me too. Really curious how that 'dev' could bounce back like he did.


Probably by being friends with management on bookface .. if you believe those CCP employee testimonials on the interwebs
also wasn't him in charge of the sound team?

Tokyo Rose
Posted - 2011.09.04 10:24:00 - [38]
 

Resubbed off a four hour reactivation with a bit of isk then after a couple of days of trying to get back into the game I remembered why I finally left eve.

Such a shame that nearly 7 years of activity has died because ccp forgot what made eve special.

Oh well, hopefully the rapid downturn in subs will knock some sense back into them and they will get back to the roots of the game.

But until then greener pastures await my gaming dollar.

Oh and if the new bulk plex sale isn't an indication that the new ccp isn't after a quick buck to finish funding the new world of darkness cash cow then I'm so sorry for your gullibility. Sad

Flak Ygdral
Posted - 2011.09.04 12:33:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: XIRUSPHERE
What makes it fatalistic is the inherent hubris of the Icelandic male case in point Hilmar.


GTH you bootlicking misandrist, only an ambitious male could have realized the EVE vision to begin with.

Hwong Jian
Posted - 2011.09.04 12:33:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
(a) we don't know how long CCP's loans typically run, which currency they are/were denoted in, ...


October. CCP has to pay back the bank 11.8 million (dollars? euros?) this October. Based on the leaked financial statement (came out at the end of June, along with the rest of Incarnage), that was (at the time) about a half million more than CCP had available at the time.

Originally by: Tokyo Rose
Oh and if the new bulk plex sale isn't an indication that the new ccp isn't after a quick buck to finish funding the new world of darkness cash cow then I'm so sorry for your gullibility.


It is possible that they are making a quick "dash for the cash". The recent marketing decisions have made it easier for an observer to perceive CCP as caring about making money more than making :internet spaceships:. But, given the above, they could also be trying to make sure that everyone still has a place to work in November.

Tokyo Rose
Posted - 2011.09.04 12:36:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Flak Ygdral
Originally by: XIRUSPHERE
What makes it fatalistic is the inherent hubris of the Icelandic male case in point Hilmar.


GTH you bootlicking misandrist, only an ambitious male could have realized the EVE vision to begin with.
The eve vision stalled and sputtered out when ccp realized that the scale of the game they wanted to make is technically impossible with only a few hundred thousand active subs.

Queue the world of darkness and the sudden change of eve development focus to a technology that is readily transfered to the new ccp cash cow.

A technology funded by your continued subscriptions. Laughing

Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
Posted - 2011.09.04 14:22:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Estephania on 04/09/2011 14:21:54
I don't care if my money goes to fund Dust or WoD. After I pay for Eve that money is not mine anymore. The problem is that Eve is neglected. Incarna, strictly speaking is not Eve expansion as it adds nothing to the game. I think CCP severely overstretched themselves with both Dust and WoD and that came from huge overconfidence that since Eve is a hit, everything they'll touch will become gold (that's how Dust was born I guess). Now, economy tanked, there's no more easy money and Eve can't push both Dust and WoD.

My advise: kill Dust, or put it on hold till better times, probably when next generation platform is released. It's not an MMO, it's not on PC, you have zero experience with those things. It will be released to oversaturated market with established brand names and to a very short attention span audience.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.09.04 14:31:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Denidil
Originally by: AnzacPaul
Please quote where they said "NEVER". I believe the whole point of the emergency summit was to define what was and wasn't "non-vanity", and CCP make a point of saying that they can "never say never".

You are a fool if you believe a large company will tell you the truth over lying to you to keep your subscription.

What do you think would happen if CCP said "yes we have plans for game changing mictrotransactions"





others have quoted it, repeatedly in these threads. i'll take not to bookmark the reference next time i see it.
So you can't quote when they said never?

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.09.04 14:39:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 04/09/2011 14:41:54
Originally by: Hwong Jian
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
(a) we don't know how long CCP's loans typically run, which currency they are/were denoted in, ...


October. CCP has to pay back the bank 11.8 million (dollars? euros?) this October. Based on the leaked financial statement (came out at the end of June, along with the rest of Incarnage), that was (at the time) about a half million more than CCP had available at the time.

Q: what duration?
A: October

ok.

(and ccp will totally wipe out its entire cash on hand to pay back the loan, after all game companies never roll over loans - employees' salaries, infrastructure investments and any other expenditures can surely wait until summer '12 when the DUST $$ start rolling in)

Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
Posted - 2011.09.04 14:49:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Florestan Bronstein

(and ccp will totally wipe out its entire cash on hand to pay back the loan, after all game companies never roll over loans - employees' salaries, infrastructure investments and any other expenditures can surely wait until summer '12 when the DUST $$ start rolling in)


Dust will be big disappointment to CCP. There is just too many 1st person shooters out there. Going public with another one, without proper fully developed and working link to EvE, will give short amusement.

Dust will be 1 month wonder like Incarna. Plenty of smoke, not much fire.

jyppy
Caldari
Under Heavy Fire
Posted - 2011.09.04 15:26:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Grey Stormshadow


Dust will be 1 month wonder like Incarna. Plenty of smoke, not much fire.



How come you got an Incarna experience that caused a month of wonder? :(

/me want

Wolf Taron
Posted - 2011.09.04 15:35:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: XIRUSPHERE
CCP picked a very bad time to extend itself the way it has, and it was extremely ambitious when they have a hard time even keeping their own house in order. What makes it fatalistic is the inherent hubris of the Icelandic male case in point Hilmar. We are the unforgiving and violent waters that he sails expressing his fisherman's mentality. It's not in his nature to work with us but to overcome us.

^ This

Hicksimus
Gallente
Mom's Friendly Spaceship Company
Posted - 2011.09.04 16:06:00 - [48]
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansions_of_Eve_Online


Decide for yourself. :)

Rasz Lin
Caldari
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
Posted - 2011.09.04 16:06:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Hwong Jian
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
(a) we don't know how long CCP's loans typically run, which currency they are/were denoted in, ...


October. CCP has to pay back the bank 11.8 million (dollars? euros?) this October. Based on the leaked financial statement (came out at the end of June, along with the rest of Incarnage), that was (at the time) about a half million more than CCP had available at the time.


Exactly, first thing that popped into my mind when seeing plex deal.

Ciar Meara
Amarr
Virtus Vindice
Posted - 2011.09.04 16:34:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Denidil
Originally by: XIRUSPHERE
Iceland experienced a massive economic boom that resulted in quite a bit of overconfidence in the markets and a subsequent collapse. The primary shareholders for CCP are some of these individuals and what we see today is in part the pressure from these investors wanting returns and dictating out their personal vision of business strategy.

CCP picked a very bad time to extend itself the way it has, and it was extremely ambitious when they have a hard time even keeping their own house in order. What makes it fatalistic is the inherent hubris of the Icelandic male case in point Hilmar. We are the unforgiving and violent waters that he sails expressing his fisherman's mentality. It's not in his nature to work with us but to overcome us.

Mix that ethos with the trends of corporatism and new business and you get quite a cocktail.


and this is 100% speculation, which you have nothing to really back up it with


just like your signature is 100% pure bull****

(and - yes i'm going to add a calling out on your sig every time i have a legitimate reason to reply to you. your sig is a pile of **** which implys that CCP are going to do things they stated they haven't. and you have nothing to support that assertion beyond "BECAUSE I SAID SO")



His analysis is quite correct and based on fact. His sig is just awesome, and exactly where we are heading once EVE goes free to play...

Quakar
Posted - 2011.09.04 19:16:00 - [51]
 

Isnt CCP a private company? As in only CCP Employees can invest in the company. So why would investors matter? I doubt ccp would allow anyone to invest enough to have a sizable impact on the company.

XIRUSPHERE
Gallente
Deadly Intent.
Posted - 2011.09.04 19:36:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: XIRUSPHERE on 04/09/2011 19:52:13
Originally by: Quakar
Isnt CCP a private company? As in only CCP Employees can invest in the company. So why would investors matter? I doubt ccp would allow anyone to invest enough to have a sizable impact on the company.


Here's a list of the shareholders if you read into it a bit you can see the big names involved are fairly sketchy outfits. Namely Novator Partners LLP.

The primary shareholder for CCP are some fairly ruthless people.

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.09.04 21:20:00 - [53]
 

I'm not really good at business side of things, so I want to clarify:

As I understand, in order to develop a big MMO like EVE, a startup company like CCP would need to get investors - they would fund the first years of development when there is no revenue. Once the game is released, it starts making money. Over course of several years with steady player base growth, CCP should have been able to pay off its investors and become completely free of all obligations to shareholders. I would imagine that by 2011 - CCP would have made enough money to be completely free.

Why is that not so?

Jackson Brown
Posted - 2011.09.04 23:11:00 - [54]
 

When they started developing WoD/DUST, the remaining people who work on Eve at CCP have ruined it.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.09.05 01:02:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Denidil


others have quoted it, repeatedly in these threads. i'll take not to bookmark the reference next time i see it.

and none of the other MMOs i've played (that were not Free 2 Play) had game affecting MT, so i have no reason to be skeptical, being the words of people who are butthurt over stupid ****.


cool story brah, so just cause youve never played it it doesnt exist?

Funny thing, I played this game when I was away from EVE. I was even suckered into a LTS for it. In Open Beta they said theyd have a RMT store but it would be for "Vanity items only"

They broke that promise at release and it only got worse from there
vanity items only lol
please note the ships (of which some have unique abilities you cant get on ships in game), the clothes (yeah cause it started with clothes), the races (same problem as with the ships above), and the skill point boosters (which makes levelling faster).

I hope your blind fanatacism is right fanboi, I really do. I actually like this game, just not the ppl ruining er I mean running it


Signal11th
Posted - 2011.09.05 12:34:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Denidil
Originally by: XIRUSPHERE
. My assertion can comfortably remain so long as CCP refuse to commit to the nature of MT items coming into play.


CCP has already stated they will never put game-altering MT in. So you're simply saying you don't believe them. Given that you're some jackass on the internet, and they're the makers of the game i'll take their word before yours.



Sorry but your very naieve is you think that way, Companies are run by usually shareholders/equity firms etc , so if they think putting MT stuff will make money it will happen no matter what anybody at CCP says.

I don't really give a **** about the NEX store as long as its vanity items but the game is sooooo boring now, nothing new for ages, I love them game but it bores me to tears..
In fact I even get excited now if someone smack talks me in local.

Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
Posted - 2011.09.05 14:21:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: XIRUSPHERE
Edited by: XIRUSPHERE on 04/09/2011 19:52:13
Originally by: Quakar
Isnt CCP a private company? As in only CCP Employees can invest in the company. So why would investors matter? I doubt ccp would allow anyone to invest enough to have a sizable impact on the company.


Here's a list of the shareholders if you read into it a bit you can see the big names involved are fairly sketchy outfits. Namely Novator Partners LLP.

The primary shareholder for CCP are some fairly ruthless people.


I went through the list.
Top 3 are:
1) CCP founder
2) Teno Investments - virtually no info besides them being involved with Eve
3) Novator Partners - a shady company, you'd better stay away from as far as you can. Offshores in all interesting places, evasive owners - smells terribly bad. And they are the largest investor, holding ~34% of CCP.

Well, Eve was nice when it lasted...

jason hill
Caldari
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.09.05 14:57:00 - [58]
 

some peeps are saying that eve died after the T20 incident ..... but this isnt strictly true .... eve started to die before then ... none seems to remember the miner II incident when a member of the ccp dev team leaked a miner II bpo to one corp causing a major power shift which started to kill the game way back when


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