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Bebie123
Posted - 2011.09.03 19:34:00 - [1]
 

Did they rearrange stuff at the top somehow? Old people left and new, more radical business people took their places? Old people went to courses teaching them more ruthless business methods?

I dont recognize the CCP I used to appreciate so much.

Zombatar
Posted - 2011.09.03 19:45:00 - [2]
 

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Looking at that picture I would say by the end of 2009 things started to hit the fan.

AnzacPaul
Perkone
Posted - 2011.09.03 19:46:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Bebie123
Did they rearrange stuff at the top somehow? Old people left and new, more radical business people took their places? Old people went to courses teaching them more ruthless business methods?

I dont recognize the CCP I used to appreciate so much.


Once upon a time, CCP didn't have Dust, or WOD to produce. Now they are the new shiny and Eve is the golden goose to be gleaned for cash to support the development of the former two.

Zombatar
Posted - 2011.09.03 19:48:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: AnzacPaul
Originally by: Bebie123
Did they rearrange stuff at the top somehow? Old people left and new, more radical business people took their places? Old people went to courses teaching them more ruthless business methods?

I dont recognize the CCP I used to appreciate so much.


Once upon a time, CCP didn't have Dust, or WOD to produce. Now they are the new shiny and Eve is the golden goose to be gleaned for cash to support the development of the former two.


Should ask if they started developing WOG/DUST in 2009, then the graph above makes even more sense.

XIRUSPHERE
Gallente
Deadly Intent.
Posted - 2011.09.03 19:53:00 - [5]
 

Iceland experienced a massive economic boom that resulted in quite a bit of overconfidence in the markets and a subsequent collapse. The primary shareholders for CCP are some of these individuals and what we see today is in part the pressure from these investors wanting returns and dictating out their personal vision of business strategy.

CCP picked a very bad time to extend itself the way it has, and it was extremely ambitious when they have a hard time even keeping their own house in order. What makes it fatalistic is the inherent hubris of the Icelandic male case in point Hilmar. We are the unforgiving and violent waters that he sails expressing his fisherman's mentality. It's not in his nature to work with us but to overcome us.

Mix that ethos with the trends of corporatism and new business and you get quite a cocktail.

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.09.03 19:56:00 - [6]
 

probably when in typical Icelandic fashion they leveraged everything they had (EVE) in a poorly-conceived speculative venture. Now the anemic and emaciated golden goose is coughing out shiny dust from its money hole because CCP traded the goose feed for some magic beans.

Tosser Galore
Posted - 2011.09.03 20:05:00 - [7]
 

Oh Hilmar is indeed counting of the next gen of brainwashed "kids" to buy into the crap.

I guess EVE did a nosedive when it comes to attention to product vs marketing.

CCP just started delivering on the hype and stopped churning out new code. Putting most effort into streamlining and "iterate" on the old framework.

While paying sub par salaries and having a delusional CEO.

Denidil
Gallente
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.09.03 20:36:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: XIRUSPHERE
Iceland experienced a massive economic boom that resulted in quite a bit of overconfidence in the markets and a subsequent collapse. The primary shareholders for CCP are some of these individuals and what we see today is in part the pressure from these investors wanting returns and dictating out their personal vision of business strategy.

CCP picked a very bad time to extend itself the way it has, and it was extremely ambitious when they have a hard time even keeping their own house in order. What makes it fatalistic is the inherent hubris of the Icelandic male case in point Hilmar. We are the unforgiving and violent waters that he sails expressing his fisherman's mentality. It's not in his nature to work with us but to overcome us.

Mix that ethos with the trends of corporatism and new business and you get quite a cocktail.


and this is 100% speculation, which you have nothing to really back up it with


just like your signature is 100% pure bull****

(and - yes i'm going to add a calling out on your sig every time i have a legitimate reason to reply to you. your sig is a pile of **** which implys that CCP are going to do things they stated they haven't. and you have nothing to support that assertion beyond "BECAUSE I SAID SO")

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.09.03 20:41:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Denidil
Originally by: XIRUSPHERE
Iceland experienced a massive economic boom that resulted in quite a bit of overconfidence in the markets and a subsequent collapse. The primary shareholders for CCP are some of these individuals and what we see today is in part the pressure from these investors wanting returns and dictating out their personal vision of business strategy.

CCP picked a very bad time to extend itself the way it has, and it was extremely ambitious when they have a hard time even keeping their own house in order. What makes it fatalistic is the inherent hubris of the Icelandic male case in point Hilmar. We are the unforgiving and violent waters that he sails expressing his fisherman's mentality. It's not in his nature to work with us but to overcome us.

Mix that ethos with the trends of corporatism and new business and you get quite a cocktail.


and this is 100% speculation, which you have nothing to really back up it with


just like your signature is 100% pure bull****

(and - yes i'm going to add a calling out on your sig every time i have a legitimate reason to reply to you. your sig is a pile of **** which implys that CCP are going to do things they stated they haven't. and you have nothing to support that assertion beyond "BECAUSE I SAID SO")


Its actually the 'me aceto et utrem aquae' logical fallacy.

Denidil
Gallente
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.09.03 20:44:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones


Its actually the 'me aceto et utrem aquae' logical fallacy.


not familiar with that one.... translation... ? [couldn't eve google it up]

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.09.03 20:57:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Denidil
Originally by: Cipher Jones


Its actually the 'me aceto et utrem aquae' logical fallacy.


not familiar with that one.... translation... ? [couldn't eve google it up]

Lol.
"I'm a douchebag" (bottle of vinegar and water).

Trolls Troll
Posted - 2011.09.03 21:02:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones

"I'm a douchebag" (bottle of vinegar and water).



I could of told you that two threads ago......




Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.09.03 21:26:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: AnzacPaul
Originally by: Bebie123
Did they rearrange stuff at the top somehow? Old people left and new, more radical business people took their places? Old people went to courses teaching them more ruthless business methods?

I dont recognize the CCP I used to appreciate so much.


Once upon a time, CCP didn't have Dust, or WOD to produce. Now they are the new shiny and Eve is the golden goose to be gleaned for cash to support the development of the former two.
actually, it can be that or it can be the fact that Iceland economy tanking had a more permanent and deep effect on CCP.
There is the rumour of the contractual SNAFU that happened around the end of the 2009 where CCP lost pretty much half of the QA department. Wouldn't be surprising that a huge chunk of other departments also lost a crapload of people.

so all in all, it's a "perfect storm" scenario: homeland economy tanking means that investors get jumpy, demanding more profit. this also lead to sand contract SNAFUs where a good chunk of CCP employees (probably some senior devs) got sacked or left. Add the Iceland Business method (where there is too much proximity between management-level directors) and we're at the current state of things.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.09.03 21:32:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 03/09/2011 21:41:19
Somewhere between FF'09 and FF'11, around the time of :18 months:

That's also when they said "no MT", only to follow it shortly by "oh, btw, MT!". It was also not long after Dust was made official…

Ghoest
Posted - 2011.09.03 21:34:00 - [15]
 

It happened after Iceland the country went bankrupt and CCP realized it no longer had free money.

It took them a bit to realize it, then it took us a bit to be effected by this.

Phelan Votronski
Posted - 2011.09.03 21:43:00 - [16]
 

They nearly nerfed carriers back in the day. The dev responsible was then swiftly removed from the game design into a position where he couldn't do massive damage: senior producer of eve online. Three years later or so he's back with a new name and marvelous 1000$ jeans.

XIRUSPHERE
Gallente
Deadly Intent.
Posted - 2011.09.03 21:45:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Denidil
Originally by: XIRUSPHERE
Iceland experienced a massive economic boom that resulted in quite a bit of overconfidence in the markets and a subsequent collapse. The primary shareholders for CCP are some of these individuals and what we see today is in part the pressure from these investors wanting returns and dictating out their personal vision of business strategy.

CCP picked a very bad time to extend itself the way it has, and it was extremely ambitious when they have a hard time even keeping their own house in order. What makes it fatalistic is the inherent hubris of the Icelandic male case in point Hilmar. We are the unforgiving and violent waters that he sails expressing his fisherman's mentality. It's not in his nature to work with us but to overcome us.

Mix that ethos with the trends of corporatism and new business and you get quite a cocktail.


and this is 100% speculation, which you have nothing to really back up it with


just like your signature is 100% pure bull****

(and - yes i'm going to add a calling out on your sig every time i have a legitimate reason to reply to you. your sig is a pile of **** which implys that CCP are going to do things they stated they haven't. and you have nothing to support that assertion beyond "BECAUSE I SAID SO")


I would call your indignation pure bull**** but please do tug at my coattails, im enjoying every response. As long as you focus on player argument rather than the culture and behavior of CCP you are doing them a service. My assertion can comfortably remain so long as CCP refuse to commit to the nature of MT items coming into play. It's based off years of seeing what CCP do rather than what they say.

Do yourself a favor and read that article, individuals who had a stake in Iceland's economic collapse do have the lion share of CCP stock. One of CCP's lead economist is a piece of work that migrated over and brought his vision from Citibank after plundering it.

But I won't expect that of you, you're just going to chase around the least important vectors of this whole debacle. Keep crying about a sig and following me like a puppy.

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.09.03 21:50:00 - [18]
 

I'd be curious to see a list of CCP employees from 2005 with a note identifying whether they are still working at CCP

Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.09.03 21:58:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Denidil


(and - yes i'm going to add a calling out on your sig every time i have a legitimate reason to reply to you. your sig is a pile of **** which implys that CCP are going to do things they stated they haven't. and you have nothing to support that assertion beyond "BECAUSE I SAID SO")


accusing CCF of being pure an golden an theyd never lie to US

youre new huh?

Effortless Breeze
Clandestine Vector
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2011.09.03 22:02:00 - [20]
 

EVE died when Trinity came out, because they were focusing too much on graphics and not fixing lag.

EVE died with the T20 incident.

EVE died again in Quantum Rise because it nerfed nano ships

EVE died once more with the "lame battlegrounds and factions" in Factional Warfare

You are all whiny idiots. Get over yourselves.

Ethan Bejorn
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.09.03 22:03:00 - [21]
 

Around 2009.

MsValentineWiggin
Posted - 2011.09.03 23:54:00 - [22]
 

What would you do if you were a new manager trying to increase CCP revenue?

1) NG: The most obvious would be try to increase new players. But look at how much the EVE population resists, for want of a better word, popularity. Perhaps make the press mentions be less about trillion ISK frauds and Hulkageddon? Perhaps make it so the new player is little more invested before they have a harsh Dark Dystopian moment from a ganker or at a gate. Obviously this would be quite unpopular with the bitter vet.

2) SSDD: They could expend developer resources for the same. Cyno effect, better moon goo allocation and T3 frigates might retain some people, but will it really expand the market enough to be cost effective? Doubtful

3) Diversification: Invest in new Intellectual property that you might be able to grow without being actively resisted by the player base. Personally, although console are obviously a better market for game companies than PCs (albeit not as good as iOS(Apple)/Android/Facebook) , I would prefer to invest in WoD instead of DUST. But economically, I don't see how you could argue that EVE is the most profitable place to invest CCP resources.

Originally by: Ephemeron
I'd be curious to see a list of CCP employees from 2005 with a note identifying whether they are still working at CCP

This is not real world. In California, the median time a software developer stays in a job is about 18 months. And headhunters paid $50-$100 for company phone books (back when they existed) in order to be able to raid employees. No sane company publishes employee lists. Nor is "employee" that relevant when so much work is contractors and some contractors may work on a project longer than many employees.

Ryhss
Caldari
The Excecutorans
Posted - 2011.09.04 00:08:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: AnzacPaul
Originally by: Bebie123
Did they rearrange stuff at the top somehow? Old people left and new, more radical business people took their places? Old people went to courses teaching them more ruthless business methods?

I dont recognize the CCP I used to appreciate so much.


Once upon a time, CCP didn't have Dust, or WOD to produce. Now they are the new shiny and Eve is the golden goose to be gleaned for cash to support the development of the former two.
I know Dust 514 but WTF is WOD?

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.09.04 00:09:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Ryhss
I know Dust 514 but WTF is WOD?
World of Darkness

Denidil
Gallente
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.09.04 01:27:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: XIRUSPHERE
. My assertion can comfortably remain so long as CCP refuse to commit to the nature of MT items coming into play.


CCP has already stated they will never put game-altering MT in. So you're simply saying you don't believe them. Given that you're some jackass on the internet, and they're the makers of the game i'll take their word before yours.

Large Collidable Object
morons.
Posted - 2011.09.04 01:33:00 - [26]
 


AnzacPaul
Perkone
Posted - 2011.09.04 01:40:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Denidil
Originally by: XIRUSPHERE
. My assertion can comfortably remain so long as CCP refuse to commit to the nature of MT items coming into play.


CCP has already stated they will never put game-altering MT in. So you're simply saying you don't believe them. Given that you're some jackass on the internet, and they're the makers of the game i'll take their word before yours.



Please quote where they said "NEVER". I believe the whole point of the emergency summit was to define what was and wasn't "non-vanity", and CCP make a point of saying that they can "never say never".

You are a fool if you believe a large company will tell you the truth over lying to you to keep your subscription.

What do you think would happen if CCP said "yes we have plans for game changing mictrotransactions"



Denidil
Gallente
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.09.04 01:45:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: AnzacPaul
Please quote where they said "NEVER". I believe the whole point of the emergency summit was to define what was and wasn't "non-vanity", and CCP make a point of saying that they can "never say never".

You are a fool if you believe a large company will tell you the truth over lying to you to keep your subscription.

What do you think would happen if CCP said "yes we have plans for game changing mictrotransactions"





others have quoted it, repeatedly in these threads. i'll take not to bookmark the reference next time i see it.

and none of the other MMOs i've played (that were not Free 2 Play) had game affecting MT, so i have no reason to be skeptical, being the words of people who are butthurt over stupid ****.

Barbelo Valentinian
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.09.04 01:48:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Barbelo Valentinian on 04/09/2011 01:48:53
EVE was a bit of a success story for a long time. It's sort of unusual for an MMO to gradually increase subscribers over time. Most MMOs start with a bang and either die fairly instantly or just gradually whimper into nothingness. EVE crept up on the world, growing stronger every year.

So that's a good thing, and EVE could have kept on growing like this for years to come, with relevant expansions - even paid expansions now and then - and yes, to include WiS, and something like DUST, and all that goodness too, down the line.

But at some point, CCP just made the wrong decision at the wrong time - somehow they just overstretched themselves. I'm sure nobody begrudges them branching out into other games. Maybe either DUST or WoD might have been fine on its own, but what with the financial climate, whatever decision they made has turned out to be an overstretch. They must be under some pressure now.

The result is that they are frantically trying to turn the only actual money-making asset they have into some fantasized game that will attract lots more people. They are putting too much weight on EVE as a golden goose.

This is similar to the mistake SOE made with SWG. A huge gamble that the changes they make, which will certainly **** off the old guard, will be enough to bring in more newbies than oldbies who leave.

This sort of strategy might work in normal MMOS - in themeparks. But in a sandbox like SWG or EVE, where a major part of the content is created by players who invest a lot into the game, it's a disastrous mistake.

This is CCP's NGE moment - albeit more of a "slow burn" NGE moment than the NGE was (it was fairly quick). I do believe that CCP can still pull back to sanity, but I doubt they've got much longer.

OTOH, their gamble might pay off - but they seem too disorganised a company to really pull off a sea change in the basic nature of EVE, in a timeframe that would allow a huge enough influx of the fantasized new players to replace the oldbies who are undoubtedly getting disenchanted with CCP and with EVE at the moment.

Rhinanna
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.09.04 04:02:00 - [30]
 

I think its more likely it went like this:

EvE going well, CCP having spare cash, decides to expand, investing a lot of money and getting loans.
Banking collapse - CCP suddenly have a lot of commitments and aren't in such a rosey financial position
Various funding commitments means projects in danger, CCP need cash influx to keep/increase project funding to previous levels, nex is developed.
Players notice lack of new features, combined with discontent over next means players not returning and less new players joining.

Basically a panic reaction, I think we just need to grin and bear it for the next year, it looks like CCP has recovered from the worst of it's finanical problems now so hopefully the actual FIS stuff they are developing might be in by next summer, hopefully some of it makes it in for the winter expansion however.


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