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Kurotenshi Xi
Posted - 2011.09.03 19:25:00 - [1]
 

Two things that really **** me off about EVE and quite a few other people I raise the idea to.

POS -

I absolutely hate the way POS's are done.

Fueling if fine and quite understandable, don't nerf this. Possibly a better SOV bonus for fuels though, maybe even as time goes by it gets a little bit better. Like how long the alliance holds SOV for. For example, one week you get a 5 percent bonus, one month another 5 percent, 3 months another 5 percent, six months you get another 5 percent, and finally 1 year of holding SOV in a particular system you get the last 5 percent all stacking. It makes holding SOV that much more valuable to defend your space and not get it flipped.

I've been a part of quite a few POS Bashings and I have a few POS myself. I think it is stupid how it only takes a few battleships to kill off a POS. The reinforcement timer is a cool idea and works well. But seriously you can't defend against crap. A POS is a major investment for a corp especially if you have lots of goodies in them. There should be some type of upgrades that you can buy that cost quite a bit of isk to make your POS that much stronger in defenses. To allow you to put down more defenses. How crappy is it that you can get everything that you need in your POS but only have enough CPU or Powergrid that you cannot even defend it. POSs suck at killing things too. Unless a rogue lone ship or two comes up on your POS it is basically a sitting duck. Unless you only put up the tower, maybe a jump bridge and the rest is ALL defenses. You're basically fueling a large gun with no real use for a corp that wants to do OTHER things with them. By the time you get yourself a hangar for items, one for ships, some assembly arrays, and a few other things, you can't defend for **** and it is stupid.

Anchoring/online/positioning is a ****ing nightmare to be honest. There should seriously be a better system for doing this. I shouldn't have to spend days working on this if I am a little bit short on time, or one entire day. A couple of hours is fine but damn. 20 minutes here, 2 minutes times 10, 10 minutes here, it takes forever. There should seriously be some sort of a management tab that you can pick where you want everything to be at and get it in place a lot easier.


PVP -

PVP in this game really ****es me off. There is little or no skill involved for the actual player OTHER than clicking target and clicking shoot and knowing a little bit about what you are shooting at.

I think that if you are in a ship that is a cruiser or smaller you should be able to free pilot it in much the same way that you can pilot ships in Freelancer or Black Prophecy. It would make PVP *more* competitive and more rewarding for those of us who like flying and shooting people in the face. It shouldn't feel like flying a carrier in everything you fly. You shouldn't have to sit back and watch and issue orders to your ship if you aren't flying something heavy. You should actually ''fly'' your ship and you should be able to actually take control of your weapons and shoot your opponent. Lead your shots. Judge distance and speed. Really make the most of it.

At current there is little or no reward to flying PVP if you are a newcomer to EVE against higher SP players simply because of what they can fly and what modules they have access to and their bonuses. It discourages people from PVP and makes them PVE or go industrial.

You want to immerse people into the game more, then make it happen. I hear people complain about this all the time.

kerradeph
Gallente
CATO.nss
Posted - 2011.09.03 20:05:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Kurotenshi Xi

You want to immerse people into the game more, then make it happen. I hear people complain about this all the time.


ya, you keep hearing this because so many people don't know how eve works. because of the ticks system, it's physically impossible for you to use manual input for flying.

Sports Bet
Posted - 2011.09.03 20:06:00 - [3]
 

I would love to see a game with 1000+ spaceships sending their constant key inputs to the server, and not break and die in a fire.

William Cooly
Sol Enterprises
Posted - 2011.09.03 20:07:00 - [4]
 

Here's an idea - If you don't like the core gameplay of this game, but do like the core gameplay of other games, go play those other games and stop whining for impossible changes.

Thorian Baalnorn
Posted - 2011.09.04 00:01:00 - [5]
 

Quote:
I've been a part of quite a few POS Bashings and I have a few POS myself. I think it is stupid how it only takes a few battleships to kill off a POS.


Obviously you never heard of a deathstar. A properly setup Pos can take several hours to put in reinforced with a small fleet(10-20) of BS/BC. I remember one deathstar i helped on took ~ 100 BS a little over two hours to put in reinforced.

Quote:
Anchoring/online/positioning is a ****ing nightmare to be honest.



Their is a reason anchoring takes so long. Otherwise putting a deathstar up in an enemy home system would be quite an easy job that a handful of people could accomplish using covert ships in a very short time.


Quote:
There is little or no skill involved for the actual player OTHER than clicking target and clicking shoot and knowing a little bit about what you are shooting at.


LOL pvp in eve is not that easy. Their are a lot of factors besides knowing a little bit about what your shooting at and clicking.

1) You have to know HOW to fit a ship and fitting is not throwing a few mods on and saying tada!
2) You have to know your target ship and its most likely setup(s).
3) You have to know how to use the mods on your ship and how to make them the most effective.
4) You have to know how to apply as much of your dps as possible while causing your target to apply as little as possible.
5) You have to know which ships can take which ships and with what setups.
6) Pilot skill both in skill points and in general pvp knowledge play a vital role in the outcome of a pvp engagement. I have popped ships i shouldnt of been able too and got WTFOWNED by ships that i should of been able to take.
7) PVP requires , at times and depending on the situation, strategy, tactics, and finesse.
8) Their is more but i cant be arsed.


Quote:
I think that if you are in a ship that is a cruiser or smaller you should be able to free pilot it in much the same way that you can pilot ships in Freelancer or Black Prophecy. It would make PVP *more* competitive and more rewarding for those of us who like flying and shooting people in the face. It shouldn't feel like flying a carrier in everything you fly. You shouldn't have to sit back and watch and issue orders to your ship if you aren't flying something heavy. You should actually ''fly'' your ship and you should be able to actually take control of your weapons and shoot your opponent. Lead your shots. Judge distance and speed. Really make the most of it.


While some may agree that the option to manually fly a ship would add something to the game, this is eve not freelancer. You dont need to point your ship at a target and lead it. Its not a shotgun and this isnt duck hunting. Ships have computers that track targets and guns are turrets not fixed. This game would be absolutely ******ed if guns were fixed position and you had to make passes at a target.

Furthermore you can sit on peoples windshield and shoot them in the face. Fly minnie with ACs.

As far as leading why would races that are capable of FTL travel need to lead targets and judge speed and distance, when our own real life ships far surpass this primitive form of "hunting" using computer systems?

I think you need to play this game more and realize this is EVE not freelancer or black prophecy or space invaders, or any other game you can think of. Instead of changing the game to fit YOUR play style, change your play style to fit the game.


Kurotenshi Xi
Posted - 2011.09.04 01:50:00 - [6]
 

Quick take a picture, there are trolls everywhere.

Seriously is that all you got? You want to talk about everyone's clicks lagging the server, the servers already lag with the current system so there is little to no difference, and in addition the servers are already handling everyone's clicks any damn ways. There is no major difference in using a keyboard of joystick to using a mouse to a computer. It all adds up the same - User Input. Take WoW for example? People spam macros and click buttons all day long next to each other all the time. It is not lag free sometimes but just like on WoW the same applies here. Not everyone has a T1 internet connection and not everyone has the latest hardware to run shiny games now do they?

Even in this day and age people still shoot manually at things. Not *everything* is completely computer driven and still has the human element to it. So your argument is only a half truth. If you actually knew anything about Freelancer you would know not all weapons are guns and it is quite common to have a few actual turrets on a ship. They also had mine droppers, cruise disruptors(like webifiers here), missile launchers, torp launchers, and other weapons.

At current PVP requires little or no skill to actually do. You just need to pick your battles and know what you are up against. Yes it is correct that there is a little more to it like fitting your ship correctly and other stuff, but that is a given and *any* idiot could figure that out. My point is PVP is basically clicking and watching what happens. It is not as involved as actually having to physically manuever your ship better than your opponent, shoot truer, and other stuff. Anyone can double click to move away and click an afterburner, click lock target, and watch your weapons shoot someone. It takes a lot more skill to size up the situation on the fly while your avoiding being shot at as well as trying to shoot back. What I am ultimately suggesting is to get away from the ''Command & Conquer'' removed feeling of fighting in small ships and giving it more action and more challenge.

If you have ever played a third of first person shooter space sim you know what I mean.

As for setting up a POS in minutes, I don't suggest that. But maybe make a more streamlined process for doing it. Sure it should take a while, you are making a semi-permanent station in space.

And yes you -could- setup a deathstar pos but you would have little room for anything else on your POS like I mentioned earlier for the jump bridge setups. You're basically fueling and funding a huge gun in space with no real functionality. What if you want to do more than just a jump bridge with your POS? How about assembly arrays, hangars, refinery, etc.? You won't have **** for defenses considering an attacking fleet could be comprised of 500-1bil but you could be holding 2bil in assets on your POS. That is not a fair trade off I don't think and with the current talks of null sec PVP being equal and small roams suggestively not being able to do expensive damage more so than the roam itself even costs does it not fit in?

Also as a side idea, maybe on large towers it would be pimp to have a limited amount of modules you could anchor and online that would increase CPU and Power grid like auxiliary power reactors and co-processor units to increase what you could anchor down and online. And if you want to ***** about ''oh nos omg q/q, we'll never be able to take a jump bridge without dropping supers and titans'' then you are in the wrong alliance I would say. A jump bridge network should be defended heavily and if they took those upgrades to just make their deathstars a little bit more nasty, then so be it. But look at it from a different angle, it would make POSs that aren't geared towards just holding a jump bridge more defendable while still being able to anchor the modules the corp or alliance wanted.

Stop trolling and look at what the benefits could be of change.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2011.09.04 02:39:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: ShahFluffers on 04/09/2011 08:07:18
Originally by: Kurotenshi Xi
There is no major difference in using a keyboard of joystick to using a mouse to a computer. It all adds up the same - User Input. Take WoW for example? People spam macros and click buttons all day long next to each other all the time. It is not lag free sometimes but just like on WoW the same applies here.



This has been discussed to death. Please look through the other threads below and THEN come back.

[F&I] Why no manual fly?

[F&I] cockpit/joystick

[F&I] Manual controls for space flight

[F&I] Ship combat piloting


Quote:
Even in this day and age people still shoot manually at things. Not *everything* is completely computer driven and still has the human element to it. So your argument is only a half truth. If you actually knew anything about Freelancer you would know not all weapons are guns and it is quite common to have a few actual turrets on a ship. They also had mine droppers, cruise disruptors(like webifiers here), missile launchers, torp launchers, and other weapons.


But this ISN'T Freelancer. It never will be. It's EVE. And EVE has its own nuances that you need to become accustomed to.


Quote:
At current PVP requires little or no skill to actually do. You just need to pick your battles and know what you are up against. Yes it is correct that there is a little more to it like fitting your ship correctly and other stuff, but that is a given and *any* idiot could figure that out.


I beg to disagree. There is a large chunk of people who click their hangers, press Ctrl-A, right-click again, and "Fit all to ship."

There is also another chunk of people who do nothing but run missions/PvE in EVE... and despite having the best skills needed to mission they still do not think that can PvP... even though the skill-sets between the two are ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME.

Quote:
My point is PVP is basically clicking and watching what happens. It is not as involved as actually having to physically manuever your ship better than your opponent, shoot truer, and other stuff.


I must ask you to brush up on the concepts behind "transversal," "tracking," "setting traps," and "meta-gaming."

Quote:
Anyone can double click to move away and click an afterburner, click lock target, and watch your weapons shoot someone. It takes a lot more skill to size up the situation on the fly while your avoiding being shot at as well as trying to shoot back.


Yes, but when guns AUTOMATICALLY track targets and the server only registers each maneuver you make once per second then it doesn't really make a difference whether you are double-clicking or using a joystick.

Quote:
What I am ultimately suggesting is to get away from the ''Command & Conquer'' removed feeling of fighting in small ships and giving it more action and more challenge.


Please realize that the smallest ship in the game is about the size of a Boeing 747. You are not piloting a "fighter" but a "spaceborne weapons platform" that can fire multiple salvos of rounds as big as what our CURRENT naval battleships fire.

Thorian Baalnorn
Posted - 2011.09.04 03:03:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Thorian Baalnorn on 04/09/2011 03:17:17


Quote:
Seriously is that all you got? ........... Not everyone has a T1 internet connection and not everyone has the latest hardware to run shiny games now do they?



Having to manually pilot your ship would require constant keyboard input which adds a significant load to the server. It has to keep track of all that extra unnecessary input. I have very few issues with lag unless i am in a major battle....i would like to keep it that way.

Quote:
Even in this day and age people still shoot manually at things. Not *everything* is completely computer driven and still has the human element to it.
People shoot manually, ships don't. The only real life exception i can think of to this is the guns on combat aircraft are fixed ( with a few exceptions). But space ships are more like naval ships ... which have computer ran systems.

Quote:
At current PVP requires little or no skill to actually do. You just need to pick your battles and know what you are up against. Yes it is correct that there is a little more to it like fitting your ship correctly and other stuff, but that is a given and *any* idiot could figure that out.


Its obvious you do not understand how pvp in eve works.

Quote:
If you have ever played a third of first person shooter space sim you know what I mean.
Ive played many both mmo and sp space sims. None even come remotely close to eve. Not in pvp nor in content or customization.

Quote:
And yes you -could- setup a deathstar pos but you would have little room for anything else on your POS like I mentioned earlier for the jump bridge setups. You're basically fueling and funding a huge gun in space with no real functionality.
Its up to YOU to balance the functionality between all defenses and all "carebear" stuff. You can have a defenseless POS that has a lot of functions for an industrialist or you can have a POS that is all weapons systems and hardeners. Or you can have anything in between. YOU have the FREEDOM TO CHOOSE how functional your POS is and the function(s) it performs.


This is EVE people dont want it to be changed into freelancer, wow in space, or any other game you played. Which to me is what you are trying to do is make it more like games you have played.

If you want pvp experience to be more challenging then:
1)Hull Tank all your pvp ships.
2)Dont tank at all use all damage mods( and tracking if using turrets) in lows and all cap gear ewar and tackle in mids.
3)Fly gallente and dont use drones at all
4)Fly gallente and dont use weapon systems at all(besides drones)
5)Fly caldari and use only FOF missiles.
6)Try fighting actual pvpers?


AS someone else put it in another thread on the same subject:

You are in command of this, not this



 

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